Naruto Kage Rankings

Started by Kento7 pages

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah Itachi was dying, that's just one more reason that Kirabi is above him-I wouldn't place my bets on the guy with the serious illness. What's Itachi even going to do to Kirabi anyway?

Tsukiyomi: We've already seen that it doesn't work on Kirabi.
Amaterasu: Non-released Kirabi can dodge it.
Susanoo: We've never seen it protect from anything on the level of the second-strongest Biju. And his sword won't do shit since Kirabi is immune to Genjutsu.

We've seen Sasuke's tsukiyomi not work on him. Itachi is a whole different ball game.

Being faster than Sasuke doesn't mean he could dodge Amaterasu. Not to mention again Itachi's control over it is on a completely different level than Sasuke's and Itachi is quite a bit faster than Sasuke.

Susanoo...Suigetsu protected everybody from his blast I fail to see how something that reflects the attack back is going to be destroyed. And the sword killed Orochimaru. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

Beating Sasuke isn't exactly some over the top godly feat. Deidara was bringing a fight to Sasuke until he did his ultimate PIS move like he did yet again. The MS also doesn't make him more powerful just his sharingan along with the ability to use a few powerful moves like Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu.

I don't see how 8-tails is really any more powerful than Itachi. I wouldn't say Itachi's really anymore powerful either..but we've seen the 8-tails go all out. We've never seen Itachi. And they both have toyed with Sasuke without doing so.

Originally posted by Kento
We've seen Sasuke's tsukiyomi not work on him. Itachi is a whole different ball game.

Is there any reason to believe that the two techniques are different? Kirabi said the eight tails can turn off any genjutsu by disrupting his chakra, so it won't matter how good the genjutsu is.

Originally posted by Kento
Being faster than Sasuke doesn't mean he could dodge Amaterasu. Not to mention again Itachi's control over it is on a completely different level than Sasuke's and Itachi is quite a bit faster than Sasuke.

Actually, it does. Sasuke can dodge Amaterasu, and as you just said, Kirabi is even faster and thus can do it with even more ease, and can do replacement without it tiring himself out since he has an unlimited chakra source.

Originally posted by Kento
Susanoo...Suigetsu protected everybody from his blast I fail to see how something that reflects the attack back is going to be destroyed. And the sword killed Orochimaru. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

Suigetsu got messed up trying to block his attack (did he survive? I can't remember.) It wasn't like that was the extent of Kirabi's chakra either, he can launch attacks all day whereas using Susanoo continually depletes Itachi's chakra. The sword may be able to trap Orochimaru in an eternal genjutsu, but genjutsu don't work on Kirabi. Also Oro never even tried to avoid or block the sword at all. He let it hit him because he didn't know that it could harm him.

Originally posted by Kento
Beating Sasuke isn't exactly some over the top godly feat. Deidara was bringing a fight to Sasuke until he did his ultimate PIS move like he did yet again. The MS also doesn't make him more powerful just his sharingan along with the ability to use a few powerful moves like Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu.

It actually is a better feat than anything we've ever seen. Orochimaru couldn't beat a pre-mangekyo Sasuke. Neither could Deidara. Itachi... he died. Whether he was going all-out or not, all we have is Madara's word on it so i'm not willing to rank him head-over-heals above Sasuke yet. Kirabi, however, was demonstratively above Sasuke by miles, and this Sasuke had the mangekyo... Sasuke is all about his Sharingan, having enhanced perception + three of the most powerful jutsu in the world will certainly put him on another level.

Originally posted by Kento
I don't see how 8-tails is really any more powerful than Itachi. I wouldn't say Itachi's really anymore powerful either..but we've seen the 8-tails go all out. We've never seen Itachi. And they both have toyed with Sasuke without doing so.

We've seen the eight-tails have fun with Sasuke and nearly kill his entire team. Kirabi just didn't take them seriously at all, he left when the fight got boring and could only be bothered to kick their asses a second time when they took the fight to him. Itachi, he died. We don't know how much more he could have done, Madara isn't exactly the most trustworthy guy on the subject since he is a villain and all. We do know that Kirabi is far above the entire Hawk team, which includes a Mangekyo Sasuke. Itachi died fighting a lesser Sasuke and has nothing more then hearsay as to whether he could do more.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Is there any reason to believe that the two techniques are different? Kirabi said the eight tails can turn off any genjutsu by disrupting his chakra, so it won't matter how good the genjutsu is.

Actually, it does. Sasuke can dodge Amaterasu, and as you just said, Kirabi is even faster and thus can do it with even more ease, and can do replacement without it tiring himself out since he has an unlimited chakra source.

Suigetsu got messed up trying to block his attack (did he survive? I can't remember.) It wasn't like that was the extent of Kirabi's chakra either, he can launch attacks all day whereas using Susanoo continually depletes Itachi's chakra. The sword may be able to trap Orochimaru in an eternal genjutsu, but [B]genjutsu don't work on Kirabi. Also Oro never even tried to avoid or block the sword at all. He let it hit him because he didn't know that it could harm him.

It actually is a better feat than anything we've ever seen. Orochimaru couldn't beat a pre-mangekyo Sasuke. Neither could Deidara. Itachi... he died. Whether he was going all-out or not, all we have is Madara's word on it so i'm not willing to rank him head-over-heals above Sasuke yet. Kirabi, however, was demonstratively above Sasuke by miles, and this Sasuke had the mangekyo... Sasuke is all about his Sharingan, having enhanced perception + three of the most powerful jutsu in the world will certainly put him on another level.

We've seen the eight-tails have fun with Sasuke and nearly kill his entire team. Kirabi just didn't take them seriously at all, he left when the fight got boring and could only be bothered to kick their asses a second time when they took the fight to him. Itachi, he died. We don't know how much more he could have done, Madara isn't exactly the most trustworthy guy on the subject since he is a villain and all. We do know that Kirabi is far above the entire Hawk team, which includes a Mangekyo Sasuke. Itachi died fighting a lesser Sasuke and has nothing more then hearsay as to whether he could do more. [/B]

The fact that Itachi is more skilled in it, and has completely owned another sharingan with Tsukiyomi even though Kakashi knew it was a genjutsu. Itachi completely owned a Genjutsu master with his sharingan. Owned Deidara. Sasuke's done what? Use it against a no name guy and fail against the 8-tails. Itachi's had the MS for like..what 10 years almost? Sasuke a couple days. Itachi is also more powerful so it's also stand to reason Tsukiyomi would be more powerful. Just because he broke out of one genjutsu doesn't mean he can break out of every single one.

Sasuke dodged a Amaterasu not meant to hit or kill him...Don't see how that's relevant at all.

And Suigetsu's attack doesn't reflect it back...8-tails would be hit with the attack he threw at Itachi. And Itachi was out of chakra when he used that move, plus dying. Nobody knows how much chakra it takes up. He kept it up a long time without any chakra I'm sure if he used it at the start he'd be fine. Also there are different kinds of genjutsu. Breaking out of one doesn't mean you can break out of another stronger one by a stronger opponent.

Oro was nearly dead and had Sasuke dead to rights...He just tried to take over the body instead of killing him because he needed a body. So yea circumstances. Deidara gave Sasuke a big fight and only lost because of some hax lightning can defuse bombs made from earth element. Sasuke should've died plenty of times in that fight. Itachi..was dying, gave Sasuke all his jutsu, killed Oro, released Sasuke from the cursed seal that would kill him, and all while his brother went all out on him trying to kill him. So yea again circumstances. Just like his defeat of 8-tails his wins have all been pure and utter luck not his actual skill at all. Ever since his win over Naruto which was also pure PIS he hasn't had one real win against anybody worth mentioning. Sasuke also didn't use the MS in that fight until he put him in the genjutus then when he used Amaterasu. Heck most Itachi fights he fought without even using MS until he pulled out the big moves. Same with Kakashi. I don't even think we've seen Tobi use the MS except to teleport. The MS gives you new moves not much else it would seem.

You don't need Madara to tell you Itachi didn't want to kill Sasuke. He gave all his moves to Sasuke, he killed Orochimaru, he was dying, and Zetsu talks about how weakened Itachi was. Not one thing about the battle makes sense with Itachi wanting to kill him. Plus he gave Naruto something because he wanted to save Sasuke. Yea Madara may be the villain and probably lied about a lot but Itachi wasn't one of them. There is also nothing to suggest Sasuke is any stronger at all just that he has Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu while still being just as powerful when he fought Itachi but he lost the cursed seal. Kakashi has the MS but he didn't suddenly jump in power when he used it. The techniques gained are just powerful. And it's not like adding Karin, Suigetsu, or Juugo are really going to make much of a difference. They aren't exactly that high a level and Karin is all but worthless. I like Juugo and but c'mon they've all been useless except to save Sasuke from dying. They don't deserve to be against one of the strongest ninja's of Konoha (Itachi not Sasuke) in a fight.

But here's the thing.

Kirabi is black, and he even has 1337 rap skillz.

That alone is far above any other feat in Naruto.

the one thing that REALLY screwes up the rankings is the fact that the FIRST hokage beat madara, seeing as the first, second AND third cudnt beat even urochimaru;

oh and lets not forget that pain said he wud have DIED if jiraya had discovered his secret. ok ill try to do this

godly:

kyuubi
shiki fuujin{shinigami}
rikoudo
madara
yondaime
pain
1sk hokage

high:

jiraya
itachi
sasuke
the guy who beat the sennin and gave them the name
urochimaru
8 tails
{naruto soon}
tsunade

mid:

kisame
kakashi
kabuto
kimimaru
diedara
pain's partner girly{forgot her name}
kakuszu{voodoo ritual guy}
2 tails
1 tail

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the one thing that REALLY screwes up the rankings is the fact that the FIRST hokage beat madara, seeing as the first, second AND third cudnt beat even urochimaru;
First and Second never fought Oro..and 3rd wasn't at full strength when he fought Oro.

Wasn't Sarutobi said to be stronger than the 1st and 2nd in his prime, and the 4th said to be stronger than Sarutobi??

erm, if u havent forgotten, urochimaru summoned the first and second. and srry, i meant fought the 3rd hokage and lost. and full strength or not, even uro wasnt going all out, he didnt use his yamato no urochi jutsu, or his snake regeneration or attacks as he was againt itachi and 4 tails. the only reason third had a chance was because of his shiki fuujin. and yea, sarutobi WAS said to be stronger and it made sense, UNTIL we find out that he FIRST defeated MADARA. so unless we waana say that madara was below urochimaru/3rd........

Or the fact that the 3rd was said a few times in that fight to have been extremely weaker than when he was young just means that the 3rd was at one time stronger than Madara. Because he beat Madara doesn't suddenly boost the 1st stronger than the 3rd when it's been said the 3rd and 4th were stronger. That doesn't make Oro or Jiraiya stronger than Madara just because they are stronger than a old Sarutobi.

And he did use the attack he used against Naruto..it's what killed the 3rd faster. Kusanagi sword and all through the back. Besides we all know Oro couldn't beat Madara..He has the sharingan and Oro looses to the sharingan every time.

The 1st was truely badass. I mean the dude had 7 tailed beast as pets. Then decides you know what I'll let these guys have a few so they don't get all annoying and grumpy.

Well the First managed to beat the Kyuubi and Madara without killing himself...

Naruto is really starting to not make any sense.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm, if u havent forgotten, urochimaru summoned the first and second.
How does that make Orochimaru stronger? They never fought and they had to do what he said as thats just how the technique works. No way was Orochimaru stronger than the 1st, in his prime he had total control over several tailed beasts and that alone puts him near the top.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Well the First managed to beat the Kyuubi and Madara without killing himself...
I may be forgetting some thing when Madara told that story but all we have to base that fight on are a few pages of a flash back which are not much. The 1st can control the tailed beasts so maybe his control was greater than Madaras.

I don't think we should really count controlling the tailed beast as making them more powerful than characters that later appear. It's kind of like a special ability of theirs. We also need to realize that Naruto has an rpg kind of set up with certain things beating things that other things(even if stronger) can't. So maybe the 1st had something that put him over Madara.

can someone translate the names for me please, i remember the former rain village kage that was slain, he was quite powerful and i'm not sure if he was named in this thread or not 😮

nevermind, leon mentioned him.

what about;

-kakashi's father? he was the origional white wolf or whatever

-danzou the leader of the anbu blavk ops

-chiyo and sasori. sasori took over a whole nation by himself and chiyo was his puppet jutsu teacher.

-shukaku garraa

-gai with all his gates opened

-chouji on the pepper soldier pill

-haku

-sage mode jaraiya

-2nd and 3rd hikage

-manda, gamabunta, and katsuya

-anko and shizune

-

Originally posted by Kento
The fact that Itachi is more skilled in it, and has completely owned another sharingan with Tsukiyomi even though Kakashi knew it was a genjutsu. Itachi completely owned a Genjutsu master with his sharingan. Owned Deidara. Sasuke's done what? Use it against a no name guy and fail against the 8-tails. Itachi's had the MS for like..what 10 years almost? Sasuke a couple days. Itachi is also more powerful so it's also stand to reason Tsukiyomi would be more powerful. Just because he broke out of one genjutsu doesn't mean he can break out of every single one.

Never has it been shown that the MS techniques come in a variety of powers. Hell, they are techniques produced by the eyes, so it stands to reason that the same eyes produce the same techniques. I would even go so far as to say that since Sasuke's MS was fresh, and Itachi's was nearly dead and blind, Sasuke's Amaterasu should logically be even stronger.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke dodged a Amaterasu not meant to hit or kill him...Don't see how that's relevant at all.

It was definitely meant to hit him, of course Itachi needed to cut it off so he could get Sasuke's eyes, but he was very surprised to see that Sasuke had avoided it. It shows that Amaterasu can be dodged by someone with lesser speed than Kirabi.

Originally posted by Kento
And Suigetsu's attack doesn't reflect it back...8-tails would be hit with the attack he threw at Itachi. And Itachi was out of chakra when he used that move, plus dying. Nobody knows how much chakra it takes up. He kept it up a long time without any chakra I'm sure if he used it at the start he'd be fine. Also there are different kinds of genjutsu. Breaking out of one doesn't mean you can break out of another stronger one by a stronger opponent.

Yeah, eight tails probably wouldn't use that move more then once. But we know Susanoo uses Chakra continually (though the amount is unknown) so eventually Itachi will tire himself out since he will be unable to put Kirabi down. Kirabi can break out of any Genjutsu. Disrupting his chakra just gives the genjutsu nothing to work with, no matter how strong it is. Genjutsu work on chakra so getting rid of the chakra will totally shut them down.

Originally posted by Kento
Oro was nearly dead and had Sasuke dead to rights...He just tried to take over the body instead of killing him because he needed a body. So yea circumstances. Deidara gave Sasuke a big fight and only lost because of some hax lightning can defuse bombs made from earth element. Sasuke should've died plenty of times in that fight. Itachi..was dying, gave Sasuke all his jutsu, killed Oro, released Sasuke from the cursed seal that would kill him, and all while his brother went all out on him trying to kill him. So yea again circumstances. Just like his defeat of 8-tails his wins have all been pure and utter luck not his actual skill at all. Ever since his win over Naruto which was also pure PIS he hasn't had one real win against anybody worth mentioning. Sasuke also didn't use the MS in that fight until he put him in the genjutus then when he used Amaterasu. Heck most Itachi fights he fought without even using MS until he pulled out the big moves. Same with Kakashi. I don't even think we've seen Tobi use the MS except to teleport. The MS gives you new moves not much else it would seem.

Deidara just plain lost, it doesn't matter that you might think it was PIS, it was a legit win. Akatsuki does not really seem that powerful imo. Itachi was dying, that's just one more reason that he would lose to Kirabi. He used all his Jutsu, killed Oro etc... those were all things that Sasuke forced him to do. If the MS was nothing special, then no one would ever bother acquiring it. It clearly is a step forward since Sasuke bases his powers on his Sharingan.

Originally posted by Kento
You don't need Madara to tell you Itachi didn't want to kill Sasuke. He gave all his moves to Sasuke, he killed Orochimaru, he was dying, and Zetsu talks about how weakened Itachi was. Not one thing about the battle makes sense with Itachi wanting to kill him. Plus he gave Naruto something because he wanted to save Sasuke. Yea Madara may be the villain and probably lied about a lot but Itachi wasn't one of them. There is also nothing to suggest Sasuke is any stronger at all just that he has Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu while still being just as powerful when he fought Itachi but he lost the cursed seal. Kakashi has the MS but he didn't suddenly jump in power when he used it. The techniques gained are just powerful. And it's not like adding Karin, Suigetsu, or Juugo are really going to make much of a difference. They aren't exactly that high a level and Karin is all but worthless. I like Juugo and but c'mon they've all been useless except to save Sasuke from dying. They don't deserve to be against one of the strongest ninja's of Konoha (Itachi not Sasuke) in a fight.

Itachi killed Orochimaru because he had to and would have lost otherwise. He wasn't trying to kill Sasuke, true... he needed his eyes after all. But he was definitely trying to put Sasuke down and just couldn't. He gave him some moves that would activate to try and kill Madara, but Madara was to smart and kept stuff from him. He failed in life and he failed in death. As for the allies, sure Karin and Juugo suck, but Suigetsu fought Kisame to a standstill, and Kisame is on Itachi's level.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Never has it been shown that the MS techniques come in a variety of powers. Hell, they are techniques produced by the eyes, so it stands to reason that the same eyes produce the same techniques. I would even go so far as to say that since Sasuke's MS was fresh, and Itachi's was nearly dead and blind, Sasuke's Amaterasu should logically be even stronger.

It was definitely meant to hit him, of course Itachi needed to cut it off so he could get Sasuke's eyes, but he was very surprised to see that Sasuke had avoided it. It shows that Amaterasu can be dodged by someone with lesser speed than Kirabi.

Yeah, eight tails probably wouldn't use that move more then once. But we know Susanoo uses Chakra continually (though the amount is unknown) so eventually Itachi will tire himself out since he will be unable to put Kirabi down. Kirabi can break out of any Genjutsu. Disrupting his chakra just gives the genjutsu nothing to work with, no matter how strong it is. Genjutsu work on chakra so getting rid of the chakra will totally shut them down.

Deidara just plain lost, it doesn't matter that you might think it was PIS, it was a legit win. Akatsuki does not really seem that powerful imo. Itachi was dying, that's just one more reason that he would lose to Kirabi. He used all his Jutsu, killed Oro etc... those were all things that Sasuke forced him to do. If the MS was nothing special, then no one would ever bother acquiring it. It clearly is a step forward since Sasuke bases his powers on his Sharingan.

Itachi killed Orochimaru because he had to and would have lost otherwise. He wasn't trying to kill Sasuke, true... he needed his eyes after all. But he was definitely trying to put Sasuke down and just couldn't. He gave him some moves that would activate to try and kill Madara, but Madara was to smart and kept stuff from him. He failed in life and he failed in death. As for the allies, sure Karin and Juugo suck, but Suigetsu fought Kisame to a standstill, and Kisame is on Itachi's level.

Um...Tobi using it to TP, and Kakashi using his to send things to different dimensions..sorta has the whole different variety of attacks. Sasuke's only got Itachi's because they were given to him. One would think he'd have his own MS jutsu like the other three though he hasn't shown it. Sasuke is weaker..why would that stand to reason Amaterasu would be stronger from him? And going blind doesn't make the sharingan weaker..It just makes you blind.

He wasn't trying to take Sasuke's eyes...If he had been trying to take Sasuke's eyes he wouldn't have went to Naruto first and had that talk with him about saving Sasuke. Using Itachi's battle, or Orochimaru's battle as a show of Sasuke's power is the worst possible thing. Deidara's sure...but that would only make him about as powerful as Deidara at most. The only reason he won was because of the element advantage and Deidara still gave him a huge fight. So again...Amaterasu wasn't meant to do anything but make Sasuke use up his chakra faster, and to make him think his brother was actually trying when Itachi was far from doing so.

Being hit with his own attacks I think would pretty much hurt 8-tails, and Amaterasu as shown would put him out. Not to mention Itachi knows a lot more techniques than Sasuke and fights completely different. Beating Sasuke doesn't make one invincible..loosing to Sasuke doesn't make one weak either when most of his wins are plot devices. There are more types of genjutsu than just what Tsukiyomi does. The one that Jiraiya used is different than Tsukiyomi. The one Kabuto used to put everybody to sleep was different. Kurenai's was different. Some are just illusions of the surroundings, some are done through hearing, and others are like Tsukiyomi which is inside your mind type thing. Breaking out of one (by somebody weaker at that) doesn't mean he can break out of all genjutsu.

Itach's been dying for years...and he's still managed to be one of the strongest ninja of Konoha. Sasuke didn't force him to do anything...He did what he did because it was a show and how else do you think you can full somebody if you don't pull out all your moves yet let him break out or dodge them to make him think he was stronger. As for Oro...Sasuke didn't let him out. He ran out of chakra then Oro came out because Sasuke could no longer repress him. And Itachi took care of him to save his brother. I also never said the MS wasn't special..How else would you get the super special moves it gives you? But learning stronger jutsu doesn't mean it makes your chakra more powerful.

Itachi hasn't failed yet..unless you've forgotten he has used Naruto as a failsafe also to SAVE Sasuke. If he was trying to kill Sasuke or take his eyes or whatever he wouldn't of went to Naruto and gave him something to save Sasuke. He also wouldn't have gave him all his techniques if he wanted him dead. Nor would he cared about Madara getting to him. Everything was done to protect Sasuke. As for Suigetsu..He didn't fight Kisame to a standstill. Zetsu stopped them from fighting. And Sasuke even said Suigetsu stood no chance against Kisame.

But this is all for nothing. I'm not trying to say Itachi > 8-tails. I'm trying to say that they both belong in the same league. I don't cares who would win against the other.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Well the First managed to beat the Kyuubi and Madara without killing himself...

Naruto is really starting to not make any sense.

Well if you can supress the demons..beating the 9-tails wouldn't be hard. Then it would just be Madara vs the 1st. And the Sharingan's been beat before. Plus we don't know all his abilities. He may have some other special abilities. Just because the 3rd was more powerful and knew more jutsu than...well probably anybody and without the use of some hax sharingan doesn't mean Sarutobi could beat the MS since we don't really know what went down except Madara lost. Be it to a plot device power or just because the 1st was exceptionally skilled or what.

Originally posted by razor4life
I don't think we should really count controlling the tailed beast as making them more powerful than characters that later appear. It's kind of like a special ability of theirs.
Thats one of his techniques, as far as we know he was born with that ability, it is part of his DNA why should it be ruled out? Special abilities are what put them in the top tier...

Originally posted by Magee
Thats one of his techniques, as far as we know he was born with that ability, it is part of his DNA why should it be ruled out? Special abilities are what put them in the top tier...
Because..it's really not useful in a fight that has no demons? I mean sure Yamato and the 1st can supress the demons but how is that really going to matter in a fight against like..Pein or Jiraiya? And sure Madara can summon the demons but how is that going to work when all the demons are...either in somebody or their souls or whatever are in a statue? Doesn't really make them more powerful. Sorta like a Byakugan used by Hinata. The techniques great but in a fight it's sorta worthless.

What of kakashis father? They said he was far greater than the Sannin.

And i think that the four hokages shud top the list( young third hokage)

The first defeated madara in his prime.
the second............Well he was the first brother.lol
The third when he was young mastered all the jutsu in konoha and was described as being possibly the greatest of all hokages.
The fourth has possibly the coolest and most devastating move in all of naruto which enabled him to take don entire armies by himself.