Naruto Kage Rankings

Originally posted by big juggy man
Right Aura angel the manga and the anime stated the 3rd Hokage was the most powerful Kage the village ever had peirod. You didnt write naruto so if something is said on panel then it is true until proven other wise. Nobody mentioned how cool one character is or some feats.

You opinion is the 1st was holding back. The fact is the 3rd was almost 70 and was still able to fight the 1st 2nd and Orochimaru. Enma also stated that the 3rd was pathetic compared to his prime yet he still could hold his own.

Feats > one-time statement from a fallible character.
We have a statement from A that Minato was unsurpassed, and a statement from Kabuto that the greatness of Hashirama's power was incomprehensible to most people, just like that of the Sage of the Six Paths.

Edo Hashirama may as well have been Yamato in Edo Tensei form, and much like Edo Tobirama, he did not use everything in his arsenal. Hiruzen's defeat of those two during the Invasion of Konoha does not mean much now.

A said Minato wasnt surpased in speed he didnt say skill. Either way as I said Hiruzen was 70 and still was able to hold his own against 3 kage skilled people who were all in their prime bodies. Logic would state in his prime he was even better.

It was also stated that Hiruzen charkra was low because of age so you would assume that ment he could do attacks like he could when he was younger.

The Third was having his ass kicked by the two Kage.

Why do people act like he was kicking their asses?

They were toying with him.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Right Aura angel the manga and the anime stated the 3rd Hokage was the most powerful Kage the village ever had peirod. You didnt write naruto so if something is said on panel then it is true until proven other wise. Nobody mentioned how cool one character is or some feats.

You opinion is the 1st was holding back. The fact is the 3rd was almost 70 and was still able to fight the 1st 2nd and Orochimaru. Enma also stated that the 3rd was pathetic compared to his prime yet he still could hold his own.

Kay. Come back to me when Hiruzen can fight a battle so fierce that it literally means maps will have to be redrawn.

Neat. Come back to me when Hiruzen has moves that can literally down five kage level ninja like they're fodder.

Originally posted by big juggy man
A said Minato wasnt surpased in speed he didnt say skill. Either way as I said Hiruzen was 70 and still was able to hold his own against 3 kage skilled people who were all in their prime bodies. Logic would state in his prime he was even better.

It was also stated that Hiruzen charkra was low because of age so you would assume that ment he could do attacks like he could when he was younger.

A said Minato was unsurpassed. No mention of speed, just that he was unsurpassed. Try again ma boi.
And as I said, the Edo Tensei Hokages were not using everything in their arsenal. Neither was Orochimaru for that matter. He would have curb-stomped Hiruzen had he been serious throughout the fight.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Kay. Come back to me when Hiruzen can fight a battle so fierce that it literally means maps will have to be redrawn.

Neat. Come back to me when Hiruzen has moves that can literally down five kage level ninja like they're fodder.

Itachi can. vin

Originally posted by NemeBro
The Third was having his ass kicked by the two Kage.

Why do people act like he was kicking their asses?

They were toying with him.

Yea, seriously.

The only things he did successfully were put some tags on them (which would not take out ninja that tough; Sakura has tanked tags), and then the suicide attack.

I actually feel lied to, betrayed even. I went back and reread the fight recently, and was like,"Wtf is this shit? They're beating the piss out of him!"

How do you figure Oro, the 1st or the 2nd could have easily won? Did it state this in cannon? Did it state they were holding back? No you just assume he was holding back. And A did state nobody was fasted than the 4th. How would he know that the 4th was more powerful than the 3rd when he never met a prime 3rd, Madara Uchiha, Jiraiya, Hanzo, Pain or countless other characters.

Again the 3rd was 70 years old so we don't know what he could do in his prime. But we know that he was stated to be the greatest Hokage the leaf ever had in cannon.

Everything you are saying is your personal opinion. What you want to believe. What I am saying was stated in cannon. In his peak Hiruzen was the greatest Hokage the leaf ever had. Until he is brought back and is shown losing to somebody in his prime then that is that. No personal opinions. No characters like Madara Uchiha being brought back and given other chachaters skill set for storyline purposes.

Why wasn't the 3rd brought back? Why wasn't Jiraiya brought back? Storyline purposes. The high level leaf ninjas have to die so Naruto can become Hokage. Why didn't Zabuza just kill Kakashi them moment he trapped him in their first fight and then just kill Sasuke and Naruto? Then the show would be over and Zabuza and Haku were just there for storyline purposes to lose.

Other Kage's who were brought back to life were pretty smart. Why did only Madara figure away to remain Kabuto's jutsu wore off? Because they werent important for storyline purposes.

Saying look at this characters move set compared to another person doesnt prove they are better. Each character fights differently. Some characters arent important so they never show what they really can do before they can die.

What we can go on is what cannon states

http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/123/4

"Do you intend to let the former Kages kill you bit by bit as they toy with you?"

Originally posted by big juggy man
How do you figure Oro, the 1st or the 2nd could have easily won? Did it state this in cannon? Did it state they were holding back? No you just assume he was holding back. And A did state nobody was fasted than the 4th. How would he know that the 4th was more powerful than the 3rd when he never met a prime 3rd, Madara Uchiha, Jiraiya, Hanzo, Pain or countless other characters.

Again the 3rd was 70 years old so we don't know what he could do in his prime. But we know that he was stated to be the greatest Hokage the leaf ever had in cannon.

Everything you are saying is your personal opinion. What you want to believe. What I am saying was stated in cannon. In his peak Hiruzen was the greatest Hokage the leaf ever had. Until he is brought back and is shown losing to somebody in his prime then that is that. No personal opinions. No characters like Madara Uchiha being brought back and given other chachaters skill set for storyline purposes.

Why wasn't the 3rd brought back? Why wasn't Jiraiya brought back? Storyline purposes. The high level leaf ninjas have to die so Naruto can become Hokage. Why didn't Zabuza just kill Kakashi them moment he trapped him in their first fight and then just kill Sasuke and Naruto? Then the show would be over and Zabuza and Haku were just there for storyline purposes to lose.

Other Kage's who were brought back to life were pretty smart. Why did only Madara figure away to remain Kabuto's jutsu wore off? Because they werent important for storyline purposes.

Saying look at this characters move set compared to another person doesnt prove they are better. Each character fights differently. Some characters arent important so they never show what they really can do before they can die.

What we can go on is what cannon states

Well that's a bit mean DP.

But let me use this for an example: "I'm five foot 8 inches."

If everyone were to take your view that statements are final and infallible, then this statement is unquestionable no matter the circumstances. On the surface it seems like it should be true since who would know better than I?

Well, there are ways I can be wrong. Like, say, I haven't taken a look at my height and have grown, rendering the data outdated and wrong. Now, the only character I can recall calling the Third the greatest of the Hokage would be Iruka, who, like with the A example you pointed out, was not old enough to know anyone else. It's very possible and likely that he is using outdated info or is misinformed.

Or it's just Iruka's personal opinion. But the more obvious answer is that Kishi did some retcons.

Lol Demonic Phoenix you are the retarded one. You are going to tell a character if they were holding back in a series you didn't create or write. Because you think this person was stronger then it must be right? Clearly something written in canon has no meaning. Because you think something.

****ing moron. I won't reply back because you are a complete jackass so post away.

Neme That is Orochimaru talking crap. How many characters in anime, manga or even dc and marvel talk shit while fighting? Juggernaut says he cant be stopped when he clearly can.

Again what is fact is Hiruzen was 70 was considered by Enma who seen him fight in his prime to be vastly inferior to his prime self. At 70 he was still considered the strongest Kage alive.

But as I said in another thread. Japanese comics contradict themselves alot. After the 3rd died everything was about Minato. If he was a better ninja than Jiraiya or Orochimaru then why did the 3rd want both of them to be kage over him or Minato stating himself that Jiraiya was best ninja he ever seen.

Then everything was about Pain even though he admit Jiraiya would of beat him if he knew about their 6 bodies.

Now everything is about Madara who admits the 1st was better than him.

The show acts like if you have a kekki genkai nobody can beat you but the show has shown various times that people like Jiraiya the 3rd, Hanzo and countless other ninjas who didnt have gimmick moves were extremely powerful.

Aurangel people could of came along and became better than the 3rd but not people who died before. How could they have came along and became better when they were dead?

Where do you think Iruka was getting his info? I am sure from people old enough to have seen the 3rd in his prime.

You can only use canon as fact until we actually see a character go all out. Since all of the characters that were brought back from the dead are dead again besides Madara we will never know what the 3rd could do. So we can only take other characters words for it.

If you're saying the manga contradicts itself a lot then that is the precise reason why we have to go by feats and not words.

Case in point, Tsunade was Hiruzen's pupil and did see him in his prime. She is amazed at the stuff Madara is doing and how her grandfather overcame it. If the Third was so impressive then she would probably be used to it. There is also Dan, who states that the only person capable of defeating Madara is Hashirama and he was also around during Hiruzen's hayday.

And since, according to you, the manga has several statements that contradict other statements, the only thing we can go on is feats. So yeah....that really was stupid.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Lol Demonic Phoenix you are the retarded one. You are going to tell a character if they were holding back in a series you didn't create or write. Because you think this person was stronger then it must be right? Clearly something written in canon has no meaning. Because you think something.

****ing moron. I won't reply back because you are a complete jackass so post away.

AA is probably the only person here who's going to bother picking apart your facepalm-inducing arguments for now. You can't even troll properly, so you're not worth the effort.
As it stands, you have no (viable) counter-argument to A's statement about Minato being unsurpassed, or Kabuto's statement about Hashirama.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Neme That is Orochimaru talking crap. How many characters in anime, manga or even dc and marvel talk shit while fighting? Juggernaut says he cant be stopped when he clearly can.

Taunting isn't that rare. And Orochimaru isn't taunting on what's going to happen, but rather on what's already happened, namely Hiruzen's in a lot of trouble despite the Hokages playing with him.

Again who else besides Orochimaru said they were toying with him? Orochimaru is a cold blooded murderer so why would he have anybody toy with anybody? And lets say you are right he was toying with the 3rd. Again Hiruzen was 70 and stated on panel by King Enma to be a shell to what he was in his prime.

Orochimaru also stated in the manga is Hiruzen was 10 years younger meaning about 60 he would still easily be able to beat him.

Oh and you keep saying the 1st and 2nd werent going all out right? Who said Hiruzen wasnt going all out? He was fighting 2 people he loved and respected so who said he was so willing to fight them going all out even if he wasnt so old.

And AuraAngel you can't go be feats either then. Depending what story arc they will show who ever they want to be stronger.

Dan is Tsunade age so he never seen a prime Madara fight so how would he know who can be who? I am sure he is going by what he heard.

How many times have you seen Tsunade even try a long distance attack? Never right? And the Hokage is suppose to know at least 1000 jutsu. So it is logical that does know long distance moves, But everybody in Naruto fights their own way.

Fact according to the manga Hirzuen knows every jutsu the hidden leaf has. He was the longest living Hokage. Even at 70 he was still considered the strongest living Kage. So them all being defeated by Madara doesnt really say much does it. Orochimaru and Jiraiya were far superior to Tsunade which is why the 3rd never considered her for the Hokage.

Second some of the moves the Kage used against him would of killed him if he wasn't already dead.

For plot reasons the 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th Hokage couldnt be summoned or they would of butt raped Madara so let him face 5 kage who arent that great to began with.

Let's say Orchimaru spends his life trying to learn jutsu and then say he is a sannin then have him try to fight Itachi and lose .

Lets say Kakashi graduated from the ninja academy at 5 (which is quicker than anybody else on the show) one year later becume a chunnin with the aid of the Sharigan. Lets have Itachi graduate at 13 with the Sharigan but yet he is the superior ninja compared to Kakashi.

So you really can't trust things people say or do because they change to much.

Originally posted by big juggy man
So you really can't trust things people say or do because they change to much.

What they do doesn't change. You're just annoyed because Hiruzen has done nothing noteworthy, which is why he's ranked low.

And trust me guy, there is a lot in your post I could address that is hilariously wrong.

Again who else besides Orochimaru said they were toying with him?

Why do we need more? Orochimaru was there and would know if there was toying involved. It only works as an insult if they *are* toying with him.

Just looking at the fight, they look like they were toying with him, so it's only confirming the visuals, too.

We've got a direct quote describing a fight where he was primarily on the defensive. We also have later stuff that indicates, yea, those two ninja could've done a lot more. Ditto Orochimaru, for that matter.

The facts line up with a direct IC statement.

Oh and you keep saying the 1st and 2nd werent going all out right? Who said Hiruzen wasnt going all out?

The fact he was clearly on the defensive, getting tired, and being pushed hard? He didn't have the endurance to fight at his old max, that was very explicit.