The problem is, for all the hype, Hiruzen has not been shown to do much. Hell, he was even needing Minato to handle the 9 tails situation. He didn't do anything in that scuffle, and that was 12 years prior to Oro invading.
With showings, he may be above Tsunade in the Kage ratings at best. And maybe Tobirama, but that's cuz we don't know much about him. His ET still makes him formidable though.
Originally posted by socool8520
The problem is, for all the hype, Hiruzen has not been shown to do much. Hell, he was even needing Minato to handle the 9 tails situation. He didn't do anything in that scuffle, and that was 12 years prior to Oro invading.
He and the others did help drive Kurama back, but yea.
hmmm...I don't even remember him doing that. it looked like they were trying, but needed Minato to even move Kurama.
So that puts Minato above hiruzen. Hash is just because he defeated Madara and can control Kyuubi. Tobirama is just because he can do what Oro did, but he also seems to have at least some range attacks, one hand sign techs, and space/time (whatever they are)
Why do we need more than Oro saying they were toying with him? The same reason on panel it stated in his prime the 3rd was the greatest Kage the leaf village ever had.
And why would I be angry that a character that I don't even like is considered a low level Kage on a site i go years without even coming too. Before the last week or so I havent been here all year.
Everything I say is written on panel. Everything most of you see just your opinion because you like another character.
If one character is said on panel to be stronger or admitting they couldn't beat another character then that is fact until shown other wise. I don't see why I am trying to explain this to a idiot with a child like brain like you anyway AuraAngel so just like other idiots who annoying me you go on ignore now. Bye Bye.
Originally posted by Q99
He and the others did help drive Kurama back, but yea.
I remember the anime had him actually pushing the Kyuubi out of Konoha proper with his staff. One hell of a feat. Pity it's anime-exclusive.
Originally posted by socool8520
The problem is, for all the hype, Hiruzen has not been shown to do much. Hell, he was even needing Minato to handle the 9 tails situation. He didn't do anything in that scuffle, and that was 12 years prior to Oro invading.With showings, he may be above Tsunade in the Kage ratings at best. And maybe Tobirama, but that's cuz we don't know much about him. His ET still makes him formidable though.
Another problem with Hiruzen is that nearly nothing about him is backed up later on. All we know is what we've seen on-panel in his fight with Orochimaru, and that all those years ago he could have killed a much younger Orochimaru.
Before Madara's fight with the Kages, one could have made an argument about Prime Hiruzen being > other Hokage. Not anymore though.
And nah, even with showings, he's the weakest Hokage barring Tobirama. Heck, he's the weakest known Kage barring Tobirama.
Originally posted by big juggy man
Everything I say is written on panel.
Originally posted by big juggy man
And the Hokage is suppose to know at least 1000 jutsu.
Originally posted by big juggy man
Lets say Kakashi graduated from the ninja academy at 5 (which is quicker than anybody else on the show) one year later becume a chunnin with the aid of the Sharigan. Lets have Itachi graduate at 13 with the Sharigan but yet he is the superior ninja compared to Kakashi.
Provide evidence of these on panel and I shall concede.
But clearly Minato is the strongest character.
Lulz. Itachi had already graduated and was a friggin ANBU Captain at the age of 13.
Also, yeah, Minato was definitely the strongest man as it was stated on panel.
Hiruzen was one of the most powerful shinobi in history, so much so that he was admired as the God of Shinobi (忍の神, Shinobi no Kami) in his prime and was said to be the strongest Hokage that Konoha ever had.[1][20][21] Even in his old age, he was also said to be the strongest of all the five Kage at the time of his death.[22] Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime, even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure. Even in his old age, his chakra was noted for being very strong, causing a dense effect on the atmosphere when released;[23] furthermore, he was known for having immense reserves of chakra in his youth.[24] He was also the longest living and longest reigning Hokage. Hiruzen also had keen senses, being able to track down the former Hokage under Hashirama Senju's Bringer-of-Darkness Technique.[25]
Hiruzen was also called The Professor (プロフェッサー, Purofessā😉, due to his mastery of all forms of shinobi combat, and his vast knowledge of techniques, purportedly knowing all the techniques within Konoha.[26] In the anime, even Danzō, Hiruzen's life-long rival, openly acknowledged the Hokage's sheer prowess in utilising any technique as unsurpassed.[27] His title also came from creating a considerable arsenal of original techniques; one of which was the Shuriken Shadow Clone Technique. With this technique, he could create a thousand clones of a single thrown shuriken in an instant to overwhelm the opponent with the extreme difficultly in evading them all. This method also meant that he didn't have stock up on a lot of shuriken. To watch over the village, he would use the Telescope Technique, allowing him to observe others through his crystal ball over long distances.[28] Despite his diminished reserves of chakra in his old age, he also showed great chakra control, needing only the minimum amount of chakra to use each technique.
Taijutsu
In terms of taijutsu, Hiruzen displayed a very high level of it in old age. He was able to counter Tobirama and Hashirama in close combat, despite them being in their prime in the Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation. He could lay an explosive tag on each of them without them or Orochimaru who was controlling them even knowing. After summoning Enma, he could break Hashirama's Wood Release branches with ease.
Even when robbed of his sight from the genjutsu Bringer-of-Darkness Technique, he could still defend himself from Hashirama's and Tobirama's assaults, blocking all their attacks to prepare for his Dead Demon Consuming Seal. After sealing both former Hokage, he faced Orochimaru in single combat. Despite his sealing parts of his soul away in the Shinigami, as well as fighting for a prolonged amount of time before he engaged Orochimaru one on one, he effortlessly disarmed him of his sword.
Note comments like "was said". We know some of the sources actually saying that are fairly questionable.
He was adept at a very wide range of jutsu and a brilliant fighter. However, the 1st Hokage has been shown to waaaay surpass him in power.
even though he had clearly been able to hold his own against Orochimaru and two former Hokage without losing his composure.
Against Orochimaru and two former Hokage toying with him 🙂
Again Q99 that is your opinion. Cannon states Hiruzen was better than the 1st. You believe the 1st and 2nd were toying with him because Orochimaru said so. Well all know that character would never lie. As I said who said Hiruzen was going all out? Did cannon state this? And how many times do I have to say this. He was 70 freaking years old. He wasn't even close to his prime.
Marwash22. They do need to do a flash back. I heard the creator or Naruto say this. Alot of earlier fights weren't as good as he wanted them to be. Be it the Zabuza vs Kakashi fight or the Hiruzen vs Orcohimaru fight.
Again Q99 that is your opinion. Cannon states Hiruzen was better than the 1st.
More precisely, canon has fallible characters say it. Canon also gives Hashirama better feats by far, and people call him an unrivaled ninja and all that.
You believe the 1st and 2nd were toying with him because Orochimaru said so. Well all know that character would never lie.
And because their manner of fighting suggested toying, and because Orochimaru would mock someone about their weaknesses. He was pretty much just confirming what we saw.
He was 70 freaking years old. He wasn't even close to his prime.
Yea, and we don't know exactly how strong his prime was, but he needs to be stronger than we've seen to even get up to normal Kage level.
Back when he was 60, he was still outdone by Minato.