Boba Fett, Jango Fett, General Grievous vs Mace Windu

Started by Faunus3 pages

Originally posted by Jbill311
Shatterpoint is a tactical advantage, but against three notable combatants he will be hard pressed to take advantage of the Shatterpoint, even if he is able to find it.
He doesn't need to. They're men in armor, with guns. A stroke of his weapon anywhere and that's it.

Of course, he notes in Shatterpoint that even if he'd managed to kill Dooku instead of threatening Jango, the bounty hunter would've killed him immediately. So if Mace somehow screw up, he will die.

Telekinesis is one of the most rudimentary force powers, and Grievous was trained by a Sith Lord. Dooku, in designing a training regimen for an intended Jedi Killer surely taught him how to counter, or at least cope with a Force Push.
Which is why Mace Force-pushed him off of a train (mag-lev) in Labyrinth of Evil, right?

Mace even remarks that Telekinesis is one of the first techniques that padawans and younglings learn- even before they start lightsaber training. Surely Dooku would have included such an important skill.
Actually, it's how to counter telekinesis, but yeah, that would be more than implied as well.

Grievous has already been proven capable in dealing with Vapaad.
Not for very long. He began mimicking the motions of Vaapad, and Mace decided he'd had enough. He cut the floor out from under Grievous, dodged the counter-attack, and Force-pushed him off of the mag-lev. This, while having to fight and keep from being blasted off said transport while moving at high speeds, when all Grievous had to do was turn on the magnets in his feet.

The force will throw the battle in his favor in a one on one duel, but the two bounty hunters would throw the battle in Grievous's favor.
Not nearly enough. Mace dealt with far worse in Shatterpoint, and the Battle of Dantooine had him single-handedly fight through a droid army and bring down a seismic tank, possibly with his bare hands, depending on what source you look at. He was fast enough to land six blows on Kar Vastor before the man could blink, and Jaina Solo - someone who had only just learned the shatterpoint technique - was capable of destroying supposedly indestructible armor with only a small burst of directed telekinetic energy at the weak points. Mace, who has mastered it beyond anything we've ever seen and used it in truly astonishing manners should be able to do the same to the Fetts' armor, then grind Grievous into the ground.

Again.

GG engages him in a duel and the Mandos gun him down.

Right. Because Mace can't handle guns.

If he takes the the time to block the blaster bolts, then GG dices him.

Because he can't use telekinesis or run away?

Again, Shatterpoint, against dozens of men with repeating blasters, and later against an army. Again, the Battle of Dantooine, against hundreds of thousands of blaster-firing droids.

Originally posted by Faunus
Because he can't use telekinesis or run away?

Again, Shatterpoint, against dozens of men with repeating blasters, and later against an army. Again, the Battle of Dantooine, against hundreds of thousands of blaster-firing droids.

There's a new style of debating where the participants don't actually offer evidence. We must conform.

CW drastically overvamped the powers for pretty much everybody(oh and not all of the droids fired at him at once. They basically just stepped up and waited for their turn to be destroyed) so if we were to use it the GG>> Obi-Wan and 1 Jedi equals whole armies.
Lancer droids>> Republic tanks and walkers.

And all the other BS.

Oh and in Shatterpoint he knew that even he couldn't block all of those bolts at once so he intimidated them.

Oh and if CW is to be taken seriously then what the clone troopers did in the MOVIES is not to be accounted for as canon.

Originally posted by Faunus
Because he can't use telekinesis or run away?

Again, Shatterpoint, against dozens of men with repeating blasters, and later against an army. Again, the Battle of Dantooine, against hundreds of thousands of blaster-firing droids.

GG's 20 strikes per second plus two of the greatest bounty hunters in history - both equipped with rocket launchers, flamethrowers, and powerful blasters - and Boba's armor being lightsaber resistant? Not to mention GG is a brilliant tactician and the two Fetts would work brilliantly together.

They wouldn't be stupid about this. And have enough fire power and skill to take this battle.

Originally posted by Enyalus
GG's 20 strikes per second plus two of the greatest bounty hunters in history - both equipped with rocket launchers, flamethrowers, and powerful blasters - and Boba's armor being lightsaber resistant? Not to mention GG is a brilliant tactician and the two Fetts would work brilliantly together.

They wouldn't be stupid about this. And have enough fire power and skill to take this battle.

Exactly, but why do people like you and me have to point out and spell out obvious things like this?

I am only doing the will of my God, unbeknownst to him, and spreading His word.

He's just forgotten it.

Sounds like he forsake you...
Hey why we meet at a friend of mines place, he'll be able to help you get over it, and all you have to do is be loyal to him for a tryst.

Originally posted by Enyalus
GG's 20 strikes per second
Which Mace made short work of on top of a speeding mag-lev.

plus two of the greatest bounty hunters in history - both equipped with rocket launchers,
Can be deflected with the Force or cut in half with a lightsaber, as Kenobi does in one of the Jedi Apprentice or Jedi Quest books (whichever one focuses on Anakin).

flamethrowers,
Which they would need to be dangerously close to effectively use.

and powerful blasters -
Lightsaber?

and Boba's armor being lightsaber resistant?
Shatterpoint? Jaina, who was newly introduced to the technique, was able to basically disintegrate similarly resistant armor with a telekinetic prod. Mace can do the same.

Not to mention GG is a brilliant tactician and the two Fetts would work brilliantly together.
Yeah, but they're not resistant to the Force. Mace could easily dismantle their attempts at teamwork with his Force-enhanced speed and precognition.

Seriously. Shatterpoint. Labyrinth of Evil. The Battle of Dantooine.

They wouldn't be stupid about this. And have enough fire power and skill to take this battle.
No, they don't.

Mace can't just instantly force crush GG then rape the remaining two.. why?

Hell. Mace can't just force crush GG, THEN twenty seconds later force crush one of the duo... why?

Originally posted by Faunus
Seriously. Shatterpoint. Labyrinth of Evil. The Battle of Dantooine.

I've read both. 🙁

But, hey...I don't mind changing my opinion to favor Mace. Much like Thrawn and Revan, Master Windu is full of win.

Black Jedi are always cool.

who was it saying grievous could use telekinses? you do realize he can't use the force, right?

Originally posted by Faunus
Not for very long. He began mimicking the motions of Vaapad, and Mace decided he'd had enough. He cut the floor out from under Grievous, dodged the counter-attack, and Force-pushed him off of the mag-lev. This, while having to fight and keep from being blasted off said transport while moving at high speeds, when all Grievous had to do was turn on the magnets in his feet.

First off, it should be noted that Grievous was specifically noted to have only used two sabers in the duel; "Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak." Therefore, Grievous could, logically, not have had access to his full '20 strikes per second' to fight against Mace, which would mean that he couldn't fight to his fullest possible extent. In addition, Mace actually attacked Grievous- not the other way around- so, it is possible that force crush would not be his first choice.

In addition: "For the cyborg, though, the coherence hindered as much as it helped, whereas Mace never remained in one place for very long. Again and again the three blades joined, in snarling attacks and parries."

It was clearly said that Grievous' magnetism was far less effective than Mace's force-enhanced grip, giving Mace yet another advantage in that duel; he was able to move far more freely and with more agility.

By the way, I'm not saying that Grievous has a hope to actually beat Mace in a duel, but it will be quite difficult for Mace to overcome him.

Originally posted by Faunus
Not nearly enough. Mace dealt with far worse in Shatterpoint, and the Battle of Dantooine had him single-handedly fight through a droid army and bring down a seismic tank, possibly with his bare hands, depending on what source you look at. He was fast enough to land six blows on Kar Vastor before the man could blink, and Jaina Solo - someone who had only just learned the shatterpoint technique - was capable of destroying supposedly indestructible armor with only a small burst of directed telekinetic energy at the weak points. Mace, who has mastered it beyond anything we've ever seen and used it in truly astonishing manners should be able to do the same to the Fetts' armor, then grind Grievous into the ground.

Again.

Well, I gotta say, I disagree with that. Even in the AotC novel, the following quote notes that Mace actually had notable difficulty blocking Jango's bolts: "The man was good, Mace had to admit. Very good, and more than once the Jedi had to parry desperately to turn a bolt aside. He kept up his offensive flurry, though, keeping Jango on the defensive with sudden stabs and slashing cuts.". Now then, during that time, Jango only had one of his blasters, not his favored two, effectively reducing the number of bolts he can fire in half. Add Boba in, who is another extremely talented bounty hunter, and Grievous, who could, individually, give Mace a difficult fight, and I can't see Mace taking this.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Mace can't just instantly force crush GG then rape the remaining two.. why?

Hell. Mace can't just force crush GG, THEN twenty seconds later force crush one of the duo... why?

And thus, Crimzon's entire argument falls to pieces.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And thus, Crimzon's entire argument falls to pieces.

The fact remains that Mace, in his first duel with Grievous, actually attacked the General with his lightsaber instead of force-crushing him, indicating that a force crush is not his preferred method of combat.