Qui-Gon vs Revan

Originally posted by Enyalus
Revan was undefeated in sabers and the greatest duelist in the Order before he left it (KOTOR3 will correct me if I'm wrong there).

Short list, from the top of my head, of PT people who pwn Qui-Gon in sabers:

Yoda
Mace
Depa
Sora
Dooku
Anakin
Anoon
Cin
Maul
Sidious

Ta da.

EDIT: Might even add Kit into the mix.

You're right. However, by TPM, he was able to both cause Anoon Bondara enough trouble to doubt his position as the order's best swordsman, and regularly duel Mace, with neither besting the other.

Kit should be in the mix, but don't take away from Qui-Gon.

And let's see a quote establishing Revan's skills with the lightsaber.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Revan was undefeated in sabers and the greatest duelist in the Order before he left it (KOTOR3 will correct me if I'm wrong there).

Short list, from the top of my head, of PT people who pwn Qui-Gon in sabers:

Yoda
Mace
Depa
Sora
Dooku
Anakin
Anoon
Cin
Maul
Sidious

Ta da.

EDIT: Might even add Kit into the mix.

according to the new essential guide to characters Qui-gon and mace were on the same level of saber combat.

BUT I agree with Crimzon and schwarzenegger anything that can be said for revan on LIGHTSABER combat is an unknown because where you went through the game with a lightsaber I could have used a mandalorian assault rifle to beat malak and go through the game.

The only substantial evidence to how good Revan is with a blade was that he was willing to take on like 4 or 5 jedi when malak betrayed him

and if you or anyone else can provide the source stating that revan was undefeated in sabers and the greatest duelist in the Order before he left it then that would hold some weight too.

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
according to the new essential guide to characters Qui-gon and mace were on the same level of saber combat.

BUT I agree with Crimzon and schwarzenegger anything that can be said for revan on LIGHTSABER combat is an unknown because where you went through the game with a lightsaber I could have used a mandalorian assault rifle to beat malak and go through the game.

The only substantial evidence to how good Revan is with a blade was that he was willing to take on like 4 or 5 jedi when malak betrayed him

and if you or anyone else can provide the source stating that revan was undefeated in sabers and the greatest duelist in the Order before he left it then that would hold some weight too.

That scenario could be just as easily attributed to desperation over confidence in skill; he's trapped by five or so Jedi, he isn't gonna go down without a fight, ya know.

i'm not saying that he WASN'T good with sabers. He might have been the best. But we don't know that. an unknown can't beat a top 10 sabers master (which is near where your list put him) because an unknown gets a random number. There are a lot of numbers. The chances that you are going to get numbers 1-9 when your domain is all positive integars in R is so infinitessimally small that if i were a gambling man i'd pick revan every time. Revan used a saber on one occasion that we know of (the time he was attacked on his ship) The other times, he did not necessarily use a saber. perhaps he ran around in circles turning every so often to shoot at the stupid combatant chasing him in circles. (that is VERY possible!!!)
as far as a "sith of malak's character, we don't know a darn thing about his combat abilities either. The only person he defeats is revan, whom we can't place.

Revan maybe didn't even use the blaster, in fact, for much of the game, perhaps revan didn't fight at all, perhaps one of his party went ahead in solo mode and killed everyone, You just can't prove that didn't happen, its too afffected by how you choose to play the game. If a novel came out of the game, that would change everything, and if revan used his hand to hand abilities for ANY substantial time, i'd probably change my mind.

(also, defeated the Echani and mandalore didn't have to be done with hand to hand weapons either)

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Depending on where this takes place, Revan would recognise Ataru and take away most of his fighting room.

In the force, Revan wins. Period.

The PT era jedi didn't really show noteworthy combat skills with the force against other jedi. Yoda being the exception that proves the rule.

Qui-Gon never showed anything resembling what Revan or the other sith and jedi presented during combat with each other.

Excuse me? Didn't show noteworthy combat skills? Sorry pal but several sources state that PT jedi were the strongest as compared to kotor era jedi.

Maul, a PT era duelist was stated to be the deadliest sith apprentice in history, a raging bull that nearly killed sidious in a lightsaber duel.

Quigon, said to rival mace windu in swordsmanship in his earlier years and as far as saber skills go, mace > revan.

Quigon lost to maul simply because maul is the superior duelist.

Nice A>B>C logic, Big S. Lol...

Plus, Maul almost killing Sids in a duel is a gross exaggeration.

Meh. I say Revan's saber skills probably at least equal Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nice A>B>C logic, Big S. Lol...

Plus, Maul almost killing Sids in a duel is a gross exaggeration.

Meh. I say Revan's saber skills probably at least equal Qui-Gon.

truejedi said it eloquently enough. Revan's unknown position doesn't place him anywhere on the list. With what we have to work with, Qui-Gon would beat him.

Kinda wish someone from the KotOR team would offer a firm, regulated, position for the game's characters.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nice A>B>C logic, Big S. Lol...

Plus, Maul almost killing Sids in a duel is a gross exaggeration.

Meh. I say Revan's saber skills probably at least equal Qui-Gon.

Btw, whats up with the Big S?

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Possibly equal to qui gon yes, but the extent of how great his saber skills are, is relatively unknown.

Btw, whats up with the Big S?

I've never known you as Ivalice, and typing 'Schwarzenegger' is too taxing. "Schwarz" reminds me of Space Balls.

Quigon, said to rival mace windu in swordsmanship in his earlier years and as far as saber skills go, mace > revan.

Huh? From what I know, Qui-Gon "rivaling" Mace Windu seems more fabrication than fact. Can you provide an an actual source/quote that backs that up? I don't recall it being in the TPM novelization.

Not to mention, what you're saying makes little to no impact on Jinn's lightsaber skills--Jinn's earlier years? Even if we assume by "earlier years" it meant when he was forty (*a twenty year difference), then Windu would've only been twenty years old at the time! Probably no more than a padawan at best. Seems a bit (actually hella'😉 ridiculous.

I don't understand how people come to the conclusion that TPM Qui-Gon = RotS Mace.

Qui-Gon sparred with Windu when he was in his forties and fifties and Mace was in his twenties and thirties. He was sixty when he died, and apparently past his prime - Mace, who was killed thirteen years later, was fifty-three. And as it stands, the only two people who've ever defeated Mace in a sparring session were Yoda and Dooku.

Now, TPM Qui-Gon wasn't good enough to defeat Darth Maul. RotS Mace was good enough to defeat Darth Sidious. For all of you people putting Qui-Gon up on Mace's level as of that duel *coughArnoldcough* and using the dreaded ABC logic to "prove" Jinn's superiority to Revan by assuming that Mace is better than Revan, does that mean that Qui-Gon could defeat Darth Sidious? And in keeping with the power scale, wouldn't that mean he should be capable of defeating Maul?

Yeah, your logic is awful. Revan owns the Force and comfortably takes the all-out, and sabers goes undecided because we have so little on Revan's dueling skills, and therefore cannot definitively say whether he will lose or not.

Originally posted by Advent
Not to mention, what you're saying makes little to no impact on Jinn's lightsaber skills--Jinn's earlier years? Even if we assume by "earlier years" it meant when he was forty (*a twenty year difference), then Windu would've only been twenty years old at the time! Probably no more than a padawan at best. Seems a bit (actually hella'😉 ridiculous.

Mace was made a member of the council at age 28. (Wookiepedia b/c i'm too lazy to go read through Shatterpoint for just one number)

Your point remains valid though.

Originally posted by Advent
Huh? From what I know, Qui-Gon "rivaling" Mace Windu seems more fabrication than fact. Can you provide an an actual source/quote that backs that up? I don't recall it being in the TPM novelization.

Originally posted by Advent

Not to mention, what you're saying makes little to no impact on Jinn's lightsaber skills--Jinn's earlier years? Even if we assume by "earlier years" it meant when he was forty (*a twenty year difference), then Windu would've only been twenty years old at the time! Probably no more than a padawan at best. Seems a bit (actually hella'😉 ridiculous.

@Faunus

We do know that mace windu is clearly the superior duelist to revan because of what we have seen and windu not being an unknown(shatterpoint, vaapad etc...).

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Force wise its a no-no, that i agree but in sheer blade work and saber skills? I think he is arguably better than revan seeing that in the earlier years he rivaled mace windu, a foo who put sidious on his ass.
Mauls saber skills are extremely good, he defeated anoon bandora(sp?) whom was second to none in sheer saber abilities.

I seriously doubt that.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Revan beats him in the force, but for a strict saber fight, i see quigon as the winner.

As far as sources are concerned, it was revealed in KOTOR that Revan was declared to be a Prodigy as well by Master Vandar.

Now only that person would be called a Prodigy whose skills with the Light Saber would be great. It is a matter of common sense. We also know that Revan knows Jar Kai, which Darth Maul also practised.

Hence, I would be little carefull before I give a verdict in this case or the best thing to do is to not pass any judgement.

Please read the post i made above, i said i'll get back to the issue once i get a hold of the quote.

Originally posted by Faunus
I don't understand how people come to the conclusion that TPM Qui-Gon = RotS Mace.

Qui-Gon sparred with Windu when he was in his forties and fifties and Mace was in his twenties and thirties. He was sixty when he died, and apparently past his prime - Mace, who was killed thirteen years later, was fifty-three. And as it stands, the only two people who've ever defeated Mace in a sparring session were Yoda and Dooku.

Now, TPM Qui-Gon wasn't good enough to defeat Darth Maul. RotS Mace [b]was good enough to defeat Darth Sidious. For all of you people putting Qui-Gon up on Mace's level as of that duel *coughArnoldcough* and using the dreaded ABC logic to "prove" Jinn's superiority to Revan by assuming that Mace is better than Revan, does that mean that Qui-Gon could defeat Darth Sidious? And in keeping with the power scale, wouldn't that mean he should be capable of defeating Maul?

Yeah, your logic is awful. Revan owns the Force and comfortably takes the all-out, and sabers goes undecided because we have so little on Revan's dueling skills, and therefore cannot definitively say whether he will lose or not. [/B]

I don't think any of us said that RotS Mace = TPM Qui-Gon. However, going from certain quotes, TPM Qui-Gon = TPM Mace. Honestly, Revan isn't known to be good at saber combat, and Qui-Gon is, so it should be assumed that Qui-Gon could beat him- or at least challenge him- in the lightsaber combat category.

Still, I agree with you on the rest of your assessment. Revan will give Qui-Gon a big spanking in a force fight and an all-out.

Errr, you all seem to be under the illusion that Revan actually needs to use a saber. Hate to brake it to you (a blatant lie) but the fight is just an all out and says nothing about how Revan should fight. She could very well use a Blaster, but in that case shes obviously good enough with it to kill off Malak at least twice. I think this might be one of the times when ABC logic works.

Revan all-out>Malak all-out>Qui-Gon all-out

Once again revans a he. I'd like to know though, why do you like to refer to revan as a she?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Errr, you all seem to be under the illusion that Revan actually needs to use a saber. Hate to brake it to you (a blatant lie) but the fight is just an all out and says nothing about how Revan should fight. She could very well use a Blaster, but in that case shes obviously good enough with it to kill off Malak at least twice. I think this might be one of the times when ABC logic works.

Revan all-out>Malak all-out>Qui-Gon all-out

What part of 'Revan will give Qui-Gon a big spanking in a force fight and an all-out' made you think I disagree with that?