erm, what kinds and severities of magic has kain shown in the Legacy of kain series? it is VERY limitied. at best, the power of the series lies at full force in the life force of nosgoth, which is a PLANET. the pillars and even the elder god's cycle is concerned with a PLANET. and guess what, kain doesnt have that ENTIRE power. heck even the elder god was subdued by DEBRIS, cursing kain and saying that SUM day hed dig out.
again, can pyron kill the dispair emodied?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Because magic does not dissipate, as i said, Kain is the regulator for magic, since Kain uses magic to regulate magic, then he would have infnite magic, infnite regulation and then youve got a mutliplier paradox effect of Kain having infnite magic, because he regulates amounts of magic which is also infnite BECAUSe of the infnite magic..etc etc 🙂
Yeah, what?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm, what kinds and severities of magic has kain shown in the Legacy of kain series? it is VERY limitied. at best, the power of the series lies at full force in the life force of nosgoth, which is a PLANET. the pillars and even the elder god's cycle is concerned with a PLANET. and guess what, kain doesnt have that ENTIRE power. heck even the elder god was subdued by DEBRIS, cursing kain and saying that SUM day hed dig out.again, can pyron kill the dispair emodied?
Kain is the balance guardian thus, he is the one who sets the bar for his magic, not some invisble force and not some alternate power, he is his own regulator now, which obviously unless there is major PIS involved means he is not likely to regulate himself to any degree inthis fight. And why do you mention Planet? yes it is a planet....in the Spawn comics dont both God and Satan fight over a single planet Earth? the fact its a planet means nothng. The Elder God was not subdued by Debris so its when you say things like that its obvious youve not played the game even though you claimed ot have done earlier, especially when you say he said he would some day dig out.....no he never said that either, you obviously dont know anything about the game.
Originally posted by Solid Durandal
.......What?
Originally posted by Wil7
Yeah, what?
Its incredibly simple, Kain regulates the power of magic, i.e determining its power, thus, Kain would give himself unlimited magic, and with this unlmited magic, the process starts again because his regulation powers are based on magic as well....thus, infnite magic, controlling infnite magic....you lose
Originally posted by Burning thoughtLol.
Its incredibly simple, Kain [b]regulates the power of magic, i.e determining its power, thus, Kain would give himself unlimited magic, and with this unlmited magic, the process starts again because his regulation powers are based on magic as well....thus, infnite magic, controlling infnite magic....you lose [/B]
Originally posted by Burning thoughtWhat's funny about this is that you didn't even address my whole post, and it shows in your weak argument.
lol this looks like a continuos rant of how much you love Pyron rather than a debate point so ill bold those points which I find relevant.1. They wouldnt know would they, their only an Earth civilisation of what looks like modern day, but its obvious by the size of Earth in the picture he was not that far away and the planet was simply experiancing diffrences in temperature higher than greenhouse gas but there is no mention of any drastic melting or burning so....so much for the "hell disintegratzor them with hiz aura!"
2. What are you calling mortal Pyron, the guy, no matter who he fought in that form doesnt seem to ever show afaik burning them at all.
3. Is this some kind of gibberish? there are no mortals in this battle, all immortal.
4. Faster once he starts moving and gaining momentum sure, powerful? in what stakes? he couldnt even touch the Elder God yet Kain can, so in those odds Kain is more powerful technically and Pyron is worthless, Kain can take Pyrons soul, thats easier. And Durable? sure but whats the point when you cannot kill Kain? he cant do much at all to kain in this fight, its unrestircted.
5. False, he can create energy from himself, not from nothing, if hes devoured a planet, he can make it a ring, and no, he created the phobos from his own energy, not nothing.
6. whats your argument for Pyron destroying the shield? the repel shield is invulerable against all LOK foes, simple, whats Pyrons standing here? but I could bring in the out of game power of the shield, the shield is powered by Kains magic, which is limitless, thus limitless power for it, Pyron would never penetrate an infnite source but he wont hit kain anyway, hell be soul ripped.
7. Thats a weak argument completly for all these reasons:
A: first, whats funny is that Demitri, a "pathetic" vampire or w/e you would call LOK characters defeated your beloved Pyron
B: LOK bosses is gameplay, your simply jumping on the back of weak debaters like Terry who continually use gameplay, ime not using gameplay however, ime using the story description of what the power does...trying to look down on the attack as weak just by using gameplay is probably the only thing you could come up in this rank to even try and denote it from just annihilating your lover
if you want to play gameplay, Pyron doesnt beat anyone, he has to hit even human opponents in his game many times to defeat them in a K.O lol
8. most of these characters have the same thing, and prove the shield is impenetrable? unlike Kains magic, Pyrons shield which is made from his own energy is not impenetrable.
9. As for your final sad conlusion to your delusional rant this I just had to highlight because its funny "one of the few characters who can be called a God" lol.......get over him...
1. If he was so close, you wanna know how they would know? They would look up in the sky and say,"ZOMG! T3h burning fire man!" No one here has shown any real resistance to heat like that except for maybe Kratos, and I love how you ignored my points of times he HAS caused damage with his energies alone, while mortal I might add.
2. Yet I brought up two examples of when he has. And mortal Pyron is the form Pyron took when he went to Earth to fight the DSers.
3. Nah. They might as well be mortal in this fight.
4. Prove he gains momentum. 🙂 The Elder God amounts to little more than a big octopus who gets crushed by debris. Pyron has Cosmic Awareness enough to see into separate dimensions, he can see EG. Kain can't take Pyron's soul actually, Pyron easily defeated soul stealers before. And besides, doesn't work on strong opponents. 🙂
5. He never devoured Earth, he only converted it into a ring. He created the Phobos at a whim in the palm of his hand, and all those feats are above anything Kain has done.
6. LOK foes are incredibly weak compared to Pyron though, and you are just committing another No-Limits fallacy. Kain's magic is not limitless however, no proof it is at all. 🙂 Pyron will destroy that puny shield with one hand. 🙂
7A. Totally unrelated to my point, and Demitri>>>Any boss of LOK anyway, with the possibly exception of Elder God. And Pyron weakened himself to mortal form, he had to put himself on Demitri's level for it to be a fight, and even Demitri admits it was difficult.
7B. The only time we ever see it in practice is in gameplay, where it doesn't affect bosses, or in other words, strong opponents. But it's okay for you to use gameplay when you debate that FFVII spells are slow, right? dur You make up baseless assumptions, speculation, you use hyperbole and hearsay and outright lie to make Kain out to be sumthin he is not.
Name a single playable character in Darkstalkers who is a normal human. And once again, mortal Pyron. 🙂
8. Impenetrable to anyone here, stronger attacks cannot even pierce it at all. So, relatively impregnable.
9. Get over Kain. And noice job not addressing my whole post once again.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
What's funny about this is that you didn't even address my whole post, and it shows in your weak argument.1. If he was so close, you wanna know how they would know? They would look up in the sky and say,"ZOMG! T3h burning fire man!" No one here has shown any real resistance to heat like that except for maybe Kratos, and I love how you ignored my points of times he HAS caused damage with his energies alone, while mortal I might add.
2. Yet I brought up two examples of when he has. And mortal Pyron is the form Pyron took when he went to Earth to fight the DSers.
3. Nah. They might as well be mortal in this fight.
4. Prove he gains momentum. 🙂 The Elder God amounts to little more than a big octopus who gets crushed by debris. Pyron has Cosmic Awareness enough to see into separate dimensions, he can see EG. Kain can't take Pyron's soul actually, Pyron easily defeated soul stealers before. And besides, doesn't work on strong opponents. 🙂
5. He never devoured Earth, he only converted it into a ring. He created the Phobos at a whim in the palm of his hand, and all those feats are above anything Kain has done.
6. LOK foes are incredibly weak compared to Pyron though, and you are just committing another No-Limits fallacy. Kain's magic is not limitless however, no proof it is at all. 🙂 Pyron will destroy that puny shield with one hand. 🙂
7A. Totally unrelated to my point, and Demitri>>>Any boss of LOK anyway, with the possibly exception of Elder God. And Pyron weakened himself to mortal form, he had to put himself on Demitri's level for it to be a fight, and even Demitri admits it was difficult.
7B. The only time we ever see it in practice is in gameplay, where it doesn't affect bosses, or in other words, strong opponents. But it's okay for you to use gameplay when you debate that FFVII spells are slow, right? dur You make up baseless assumptions, speculation, you use hyperbole and hearsay and outright lie to make Kain out to be sumthin he is not.
Name a single playable character in Darkstalkers who is a normal human. And once again, mortal Pyron. 🙂
8. Impenetrable to anyone here, stronger attacks cannot even pierce it at all. So, relatively impregnable.
9. Get over Kain. And noice job not addressing my whole post once again.
Because most of it is irrelevent.
1. Show me him causing this damage, either way, the heat shown in the image you have shown shows Pyron obviously not too far because otherwise Earth would be a speck, its within sight distance, there is no disintegration aura in your images so far, go and find some please.
2. But he wasnt mortal so your inventing this or? can you show me where it says he was mortal, for all you know it was just Pyron fighting at a smaller size.
3. Well no because Pyron cannot kill kain and either way, all of them are immortal...so you fail
4. Sure, show me that image where he is moving away from Earth into the distance, he gains momentum before he goes at any speed. He didnt get crushed....he is the one bringing down the city with his tentacles so no, he did it, hes not getting crushed at all.....thats not true at all, how do you know he can see the EG? a lot of characters thoughout LOK can look through dimensions, EG is not simply in another dimension, he is a multi dimensional being of peculier characritics.
Also you keep saying strong opponents, well in the face of this attack Pyron is a weak opponent, he has zero soul resistances, show me him with resistance against someone using soul attacks on him please? only then wil you have any grounds to debate on.
5. Their worthless in this fight, creating phobos will only lose him the fight since the only way he could win is if he keeps Kain under constant assault.
6. THats not a no limits fallacy at all. infnite magic powering a shield that is made from magic means the shield is invulerable and every use of the shield and the story description says it is unbreakable....Pyron has nothing to break it with, or are you simply assuming just because hes got physical strength he would automatically defeat it? "sigh"
7A. it was related because you went on about size nosnense when Demitri is not large, infact half of the characters if not all in DS are far far smallr than pyron.
7B: The spell itself is stated in storyline and descroption as what it does, the gameplay is irrelvent, if your using gameplay then you fail, thats not what you use in debates, gamepaly mechanics are not canon....your assuming again by calling Bosses "strong" opponents when youve not played the game, Azimoth as ive said to Terry is a boss who is simply human mostly, and dies in one hit from the reaver like all enemies, teh reaver uses the same powers as Soul rip, soul rip is just cheap because its ranged thus gameplay mechnic, either way, the ability is there and annhilates pyron who from what youve shown has zero soul resistances.
I dont use gameplay in FF battles, only the non gameplay, non player controlled spell cast time sequence.
Donavan is human is he not? not normal but when is his resistance given to the level of pyron? a lot of characters are not large or overally physically powerful yetin-game can still tool Pyron.
8. show proof of this.
9. wow, good counter point....As I said, it was half irrelvent post, mostly you laying out the pyron love.....
Kain tools this physical powerhouse with ease by using a multiude of powerful attacks either using soul powers, mind perhaps, and this isnt even bringing in Scion Kain from the end of defiance who would wipe this guy out in likely inumerable ways but that would be unfair.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Lol.
thats what I do when I see most of your posts, although what you laughing at, cannot come to grip with Pyron losing? oh deary me
down the bottom of this scan you can see clearly how he is no htat fast at all, it shows he needs to build up a momentum in his fetal position, meaning he can do less attacks while moving at speed, infact his large form seems to have less real speed feats than his smaller one. This one shows he has to start moving before he can hit any real speed.
Thus annhilating any real speed advantage against Kain and perhaps even against Dante since Dante can also slow/time power.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtCopout.
Because most of it is irrelevent.1. Show me him causing this damage, either way, the heat shown in the image you have shown shows Pyron obviously not too far because otherwise Earth would be a speck, its within sight distance, there is no disintegration aura in your images so far, go and find some please.
2. But he wasnt mortal so your inventing this or? can you show me where it says he was mortal, for all you know it was just Pyron fighting at a smaller size.
3. Well no because Pyron cannot kill kain and either way, all of them are immortal...so you fail
4. Sure, show me that image where he is moving away from Earth into the distance, he gains momentum before he goes at any speed. He didnt get crushed....he is the one bringing down the city with his tentacles so no, he did it, hes not getting crushed at all.....thats not true at all, how do you know he can see the EG? a lot of characters thoughout LOK can look through dimensions, EG is not simply in another dimension, he is a multi dimensional being of peculier characritics.
Also you keep saying strong opponents, well in the face of this attack Pyron is a weak opponent, he has zero soul resistances, [b]show
me him with resistance against someone using soul attacks on him please? only then wil you have any grounds to debate on.5. Their worthless in this fight, creating phobos will only lose him the fight since the only way he could win is if he keeps Kain under constant assault.
6. THats not a no limits fallacy at all. infnite magic powering a shield that is made from magic means the shield is invulerable and every use of the shield and the story description says it is unbreakable....Pyron has nothing to break it with, or are you simply assuming just because hes got physical strength he would automatically defeat it? "sigh"
7A. it was related because you went on about size nosnense when Demitri is not large, infact half of the characters if not all in DS are far far smallr than pyron.
7B: The spell itself is stated in storyline and descroption as what it does, the gameplay is irrelvent, if your using gameplay then you fail, thats not what you use in debates, gamepaly mechanics are not canon....your assuming again by calling Bosses "strong" opponents when youve not played the game, Azimoth as ive said to Terry is a boss who is simply human mostly, and dies in one hit from the reaver like all enemies, teh reaver uses the same powers as Soul rip, soul rip is just cheap because its ranged thus gameplay mechnic, either way, the ability is there and annhilates pyron who from what youve shown has zero soul resistances.
I dont use gameplay in FF battles, only the non gameplay, non player controlled spell cast time sequence.
Donavan is human is he not? not normal but when is his resistance given to the level of pyron? a lot of characters are not large or overally physically powerful yetin-game can still tool Pyron.
8. show proof of this.
9. wow, good counter point....As I said, it was half irrelvent post, mostly you laying out the pyron love.....
Kain tools this physical powerhouse with ease by using a multiude of powerful attacks either using soul powers, mind perhaps, and this isnt even bringing in Scion Kain from the end of defiance who would wipe this guy out in likely inumerable ways but that would be unfair.
thats what I do when I see most of your posts, although what you laughing at, cannot come to grip with Pyron losing? oh deary me [/B]
1. He was too far to be seen as the human's say, they can't find the source of the heat. So either he was small, or he was too far away. And dude are you fvcking blind? I just TOLD YOU two instances where Pyron's mere presence or energies killed or injured people.
2. I have proven it MULTIPLE times that Pyron limited his power to ,"Fight under Earth's rules." Everyone else has gotten then and accepted it, everyone except you.
3. No, weak ass pathetic LOK beings cannot kill Kain. No-Limit Fallacy once again. 🙂
4. Since you already posted it I won't show shit. But you cannot prove any momentum was gained, hell, he was not shown to get momentum in a later scan either. Pyron saw into Makai and scanned it in an instant along with Earth, he clearly was not talking about the humans being the great creatures he would one day fight.
Show Kain resisting matter manipulation. Or being absorbed. Pyron has canonically fought and easily defeated a soul stealer, Bishamon.
5. He matter manipulated Earth. He will manipulate Kain and turn him into a nice necklace.
6. Yeah, it is. Under what basis is Kain's magic infinite? Kain says it is unbreakable...And that is only unbreakable to weak ass LOK characters. Then again, you argued PR Beyonder cannot break the shield so this should come as no surprise. I say Pyron can break it because Pyron's eyeball amounts to more than all of Nosgoth, he can hold Kain's entire world in his hand and crush it.
7A. Kay...And he was also smaller and weaker, he limited himself. 😐 So...Who cares?
7B. We only see it put to action in gameplay. You did use materia gameplay in debates. You argued that friggin spells take several seconds to do, despite the fact that in cutscenes, they do not. So no, don't cover your ass now, man up and admit you used gameplay against FFVII. And now that I think about it...What is to stop Pyron from staying out of Soul Rips range? I mean, Pyron's arm is longer than ten Nosgoth's...Kain's Soul Rip won't hit him from that far.
Which is in gameplay. Fvckin fail.
No, he is actually not human at all. He is half vampire, and his sword houses the power of four different Gods, he is one of the strongest characters in the series. And that is mortal Pyron.
8. Well pretty much every gameplay and any other depiction of the shield show it never being penetrated...
9. Fail. They were all valid points.
See, here is the thing, Pyron is NOT just a physical powerhouse like you would like everyone to believe. Mind powers? Pyron's are greater, manipulating the minds of all of Makai ftw. Soul powers? Not enough range, sorry. End of Defiance Scion Kain? Completely featless based on your own speculation, GTFO. I could speculate that since Pyron has absorbed countless galaxies that he can destroy them and is as big as them, but I do not.
Nah, I'm just laughing that you continue your regulating bullshit, when you said that those powers would allow Kain to pwn the Spectre from DC comics, now THAT was funny.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Copout.1. He was too far to be seen as the human's say, they can't find the source of the heat. So either he was small, or he was too far away. And dude are you fvcking blind? I just TOLD YOU two instances where Pyron's mere presence or energies killed or injured people.
2. I have proven it MULTIPLE times that Pyron limited his power to ,"Fight under Earth's rules." Everyone else has gotten then and accepted it, everyone except you.
3. No, weak ass pathetic LOK beings cannot kill Kain. No-Limit Fallacy once again. 🙂
4. Since you already posted it I won't show shit. But you cannot prove any momentum was gained, hell, he was not shown to get momentum in a later scan either. Pyron saw into Makai and scanned it in an instant along with Earth, he clearly was not talking about the humans being the great creatures he would one day fight.
Show Kain resisting matter manipulation. Or being absorbed. Pyron has canonically fought and easily defeated a soul stealer, Bishamon.
5. He matter manipulated Earth. He will manipulate Kain and turn him into a nice necklace.
6. Yeah, it is. Under what basis is Kain's magic infinite? Kain says it is unbreakable...And that is only unbreakable to weak ass LOK characters. Then again, you argued PR Beyonder cannot break the shield so this should come as no surprise. I say Pyron can break it because Pyron's eyeball amounts to more than all of Nosgoth, he can hold Kain's entire world in his hand and crush it.
7A. Kay...And he was also smaller and weaker, he limited himself. 😐 So...Who cares?
7B. We only see it put to action in gameplay. You did use materia gameplay in debates. You argued that friggin spells take several seconds to do, despite the fact that in cutscenes, they do not. So no, don't cover your ass now, man up and admit you used gameplay against FFVII. And now that I think about it...What is to stop Pyron from staying out of Soul Rips range? I mean, Pyron's arm is longer than ten Nosgoth's...Kain's Soul Rip won't hit him from that far.
Which is in gameplay. Fvckin fail.
No, he is actually not human at all. He is half vampire, and his sword houses the power of four different Gods, he is one of the strongest characters in the series. And that is mortal Pyron.
8. Well pretty much every gameplay and any other depiction of the shield show it never being penetrated...
9. Fail. They were all valid points.
See, here is the thing, Pyron is NOT just a physical powerhouse like you would like everyone to believe. Mind powers? Pyron's are greater, manipulating the minds of all of Makai ftw. Soul powers? Not enough range, sorry. End of Defiance Scion Kain? Completely featless based on your own speculation, GTFO. I could speculate that since Pyron has absorbed countless galaxies that he can destroy them and is as big as them, but I do not.
Nah, I'm just laughing that you continue your regulating bullshit, when you said that those powers would allow Kain to pwn the Spectre from DC comics, now THAT was funny.
if your going to have a tantrum then point out the important stuff that will totally win you this debate that ive apprently copout from.
1. but have you shown me? you claim that his presence destroyed the atlantic ocean as he hit it but not from range with an Aura.
2. I dont remember seeing the actual proof of this, its logical since otherwise he could have punched the Earth into oblivion at full size, but can you prove that in this smaller form he actually has less power? since apprently when Demitri absorbs Pyron he gets the full wallop.
3. No its not a no lmits fallacy at all its a character rule based on his immortality that Kain simply cannot die, Pyron has no other tools that would allow him to win this battle than any of the LOK characters, infact most of them have far more tools and powers, not just "big hands to smash puny vampire!"
4. As i said, him looking into Makai (which ive not yet seen proof of like half of your points) means nothing to the EG point. Yes it does show his speed, it clearly shows he is moving, it clearly shows that the guy isnt going lightspeed otherwise we wouldnt be able to see him on the comic, the guys not doing any great speed feat, in the first image hes floating there, in the next image he is in a fetal position and has moved what? several thousands of miles only...he prob was going about the same speed as a human shuttle at that pount, thus, its either momentum OR, he is usually that speed anyway.
5. He didnt matter manipulate anything, prove your half @ssed and illogical claims, the guy simply uses energy, usually his own body to make things.
6. Ive proven how Kains magic is infnite both to you and Durandal, you even laughed but since you cannot counter claim this, then his magic is infnite, if you are the one who rules magic and sets the bar of its power, then your not going to regulate yourself to be weak in this fight. Its unbreakable according to Kain and the out of gameplay description in manuals. Once again, youve made another "he iz big manz and can destroyers anyons with his uber size", this would be worthless, Jedah amounts to less size than Pyrons eyeball......Jedah would snuff out Pyron, what about PR beyonder, he takes human form, is he a target for bigzor pyronz to crush like an ant then? PR beyonder power level is equelly infnite so technically you would come to a time where an unstoppale force hits an imovable object.
7A. show me he was actually weak and not just smaller?
7B. That doesnt matter at all, its got out of game and in storyline descriptons on what it does so what it does in gameplay is irrelvent. No as ive already told you, ive not used gameplay against FF, your not playing the game while the spell animation is working....in cutscenes weve seen several seemingly weak materia, some of which people have still not told me what they even are, if their materia, ive watched AC recently, the materia that summons Bahumaht is fairly slow, the materia on the Remnants arms need to charge to fire as well....
lol so Pyrons goal is to keep out of range? great....do you know what limits this strategy, beauties such as teleport, time slow, etc etc, Pyron cannot escape kain.
Theres still a lot of weak characters, what about fish man? what about those bug things from makai whats their feats?
8. oh i see so we assume its invulerable? lol, whats the most powerful non gameplay, canon thing that hit the shield? has the shield shown to stop soul attacks, mind powers and it would definaltey be more of a hinderance to time attacks.
9. what even "Pyron is the only one considereable of a God" or w/e the nonsense you siad.
Show me him manipulating the minds of all makai please. end of deifance Kain is featless but I dont speculate, I simply watch the storyline instead of just pressing the esc key. On what logical speculation does any of that add to Pyron being galaxy size? weve already seen him come back after eating galaxies and he is the same size as before, the guy obviously doesnt get any bigger.
The specter is magical, you prob one of the people who go "bigzor godsor pwn all", your a title lover and you misuse them, infact in the Kratos thread ime surprised you didnt shout "hez the god of war he wins!!", ive already proven the regulation, its a simple process, Kain regulates magic, he has no limit to magic unless he gives himself one, thats a simple concept to understand.
Originally posted by Burning thought
B: LOK bosses is gameplay, your simply jumping on the back of weak debaters like Terry who continually use gameplay, ime not using gameplay however, ime using the story description of what the power does...trying to look down on the attack as weak just by using gameplay is probably the only thing you could come up in this rank to even try and denote it from just annihilating your lover
Story description? The spell wasn't even IN the story, it was just an optional spell, and once you acquired it you get a description, it wasn't a "story" description.
WHO has kain ever soul ripped? Please give me a name.
Oh you can't because he has never ever used it in the story, the spell is only GAMEPLAY.
Its like saying Sephiroths heartless angel will put every deadly status on Galactus because the description of the spell said so.
Keep in mind that the spell is OPTIONAL, and never EVER appeared or was ever heard of again in the next 4 sequals.
I'm a weak debator? No, i just don't buy your kain bullshit how you try to amp him up as the most powerful character ever, i feel sorry for whoever buys it, i mean come on.. remember when you said this against Kain vs Living Tribunal?
Originally posted by Burning thought
so really then theres nothing that can stop the LT and so this is a rubbish thread if he can delete anyone and anything, can he delete galactus, the one above all perhaps, or Eternity?i dont think he can delete all of those, and since kain is not part of the marval universe his power is not comparable to anything within it, he could be immune to such deletion, he could simply TK LT so he cant do anything and then stab him in through all his heads and kill him instantly
yellow man PWNED!!!
also does he have a soul, instant Kain win to take his soul, and dont say no if you dont have a source that says he doesnt or proof, i know for one thing that kain can only be killed by the wraith blade....deletion is like being killed basically...but so is soul taking, if Kain can just cast the soul stealing spell LT is dead
yellow fool dead again....
Or when you tried to make kains launching momentum movement at 4:45 faster then Loz' speed
Originally posted by Terryc250
Continually using gameplay... buddy.. the spell IS ONLY gameplay.Story description? The spell wasn't even IN the story, it was just an optional spell, and once you acquired it you get a description, it wasn't a "story" description.
WHO has kain ever soul ripped? Please give me a name.
Oh you can't because he has never ever used it in the story, the spell is only GAMEPLAY.
Its like saying Sephiroths heartless angel will put every deadly status on Galactus because the description of the spell said so.
Keep in mind that the spell is OPTIONAL, and never EVER appeared or was ever heard of again in the next 4 sequals.
I'm a weak debator? No, i just don't buy your kain bullshit how you try to amp him up as the most powerful character ever, i feel sorry for whoever buys it, i mean come on.. remember when you said this against Kain vs Living Tribunal?
Or when you tried to make kains launching momentum movement at 4:45 faster then Loz' speed
Yes your continually using gameplay and so is jaxx when trying to debate against LOK, the spell itself is not only a storyline described move, since Kains diologue is simply that, storyline diologue, it doesnt say a single "click this to gain etc etc (insert gameplay terms here) etc etc", it doesnt say anything like that, its a storyline description while the player is not playing the game thus...its not gameplay, its storyline, not to mention its in the manuel, it doesnt have ot be used in a cinematic to be an ability, there is no rule for that in abilities.
You are weak, you use mostly gameplay to stop me in a debate which in the end falls back on you. Hes not the most powerful character ever, but one of the most powerful in gaming is a definite, thing is, i dont amp him, you claim I am then dont provide proof of this. Whats funny is that I said that prob 2/3 years ago and was mostly joking throughout like "kain would jsut stab it in the face!", wheras your goofing up right now...
I still think he is nearly as fast as Loz, Loz took a second to reach where he was going, Kain took perhaps half a second to cover perhaps half the space Loz did, tehrefore Kain and Loz would be the same speed, thing is, kain has not been given the chance to show ho fast he goes over long distances anyway....
there is no momentum there at all before Kain instantly blasts forth.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
I'll post my response in this thread when I collect all the proof you are whining about...Despite the fact that even though you always demand proof you never seem to provide it.
I always give proof, as ive shown before, if ive not given it, its likely in the Respect thread ive made for Kain which is on the first page of the respect section.
what do you even need to know? you should know the proof ive provided by now....
what could you possibly even need proof on? you already know Kain can teleport, Kain has these soul powers, with that proof alone Kain can defeat Pyron, you already know Kain cannot die simply because hes not allowed, you know Kain can dimension jump so distance is hardly an issue, not to mention time freeze opponents, Pyron can be defeated in one shot from almost anything Kain has, I KNOW Pyron has shown no resistance to time stopping powers or at least youve never used it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes your continually using gameplay and so is jaxx when trying to debate against LOK, the spell itself is not only a storyline described move, since Kains diologue is simply that, storyline diologue, it doesnt say a single "click this to gain etc etc (insert gameplay terms here) etc etc", it doesnt say anything like that, its a storyline description while the player [b]is not playing the game thus...its not gameplay, its storyline, not to mention its in the manuel, it doesnt have ot be used in a cinematic to be an ability, there is no rule for that in abilities.
You are weak, you use mostly gameplay to stop me in a debate which in the end falls back on you. Hes not the most powerful character ever, but one of the most powerful in gaming is a definite, thing is, i dont amp him, you claim I am then dont provide proof of this. Whats funny is that I said that prob 2/3 years ago and was mostly joking throughout like "kain would jsut stab it in the face!", wheras your goofing up right now...
I am weak.. ? .. You're bringing up a gameplay move and telling people to not use gameplay.. Kain has done nothing at all to put him even close to a high tier character, like really.. answer me this, what has kain done? His greatest power is an optional spell that was unheard of for the next 4 sequals after like thousands of years passed? The thing is, you actually thought kain would beat the living tribunal, hell you even said:
Originally posted by Burning thoughttribunal can do nothing to Kain.....wether Kain can do anything to tribunal or not is only measurable by time since Kain evolves with new powers and skills every 100 years or so....so he can overcome Tribunals power eventually no matter how powerful is....what can tribunal do, blow up galaxies and planets and stuff
I still think he is nearly as fast as Loz, Loz took a second to reach where he was going, Kain took perhaps half a second to cover perhaps half the space Loz did, tehrefore Kain and Loz would be the same speed, thing is, kain has not been given the chance to show ho fast he goes over long distances anyway....
Originally posted by Terryc250
Again, the spell is ONLY gameplay, because the fact is.. Kain has NEVER used it in the story, never used it on anyone, its NOT storyline dialogue because it has nothing to do with the storyline, its optional, you gain the optional spell, and Kain give you a description of the spell you acquire, why do you keep saying its storyline if its optional and has nothing to do with the story? Is knights of the round part of the FF7 story as well? After you breed golden chocobos to get to round island there is some dialogue before you get the knights of the round materia but that doesn't make it part of the actual ff7 story, when we debate Cloud should we automatically give him the optional knights of the round materia by default then?I am weak.. ? .. You're bringing up a gameplay move and telling people to not use gameplay.. Kain has done nothing at all to put him even close to a high tier character, like really.. answer me this, what has kain done? His greatest power is an optional spell that was unheard of for the next 4 sequals after like thousands of years passed? The thing is, you actually thought kain would beat the living tribunal, hell you even said:
Yeah thats because the character is Kain, and you are Burning Thought, any person would see that he pulled back and launched himself, he doesn't move that fast in just regular movement speed, even normal human beings can launch themselves and leap a couple meters in under a second, besides the fact that he only moved about 4 meters while Loz moves like across an entire church in about a shorter time frame
No its storyline dilogue, as i said before, your simply ignoring it now, its not a gameplay dilogue at all, there is no way that
"'Tis a spell worthy of the Necromancer himself. This allows me to dissect a creature's soul from its vessel of flesh. For these poor wretches, only oblivion awaits."
is at all gameplay diologue, its a kain personal story script, your not playing while he gets it either, it doesnt have to be in a cinematic to excist as a canon ability.
also is Cloud the only one who can use KoTR? does Cloud say a diologue like the one above for Kain? you keep comparing Materia which is completyl diffrent so id like to see how many simularties you can compare...
IMe bringing up a move that is much like every character move from Kratos' powers to Dantes, described in the manuel, with story elements linked to them in-game like character spoken story dailogue that ONLY Kain can use in the game and cannot be shared with anyone. Well Kains destroyed a godlike entity that could rip apart precious FF unvierse with ease for one, defeated an entire race when younger and far weaker, even youner than that Kain defeats the circe of nine, two of which reality warped the north into Dark Eden, all of the wizards having powerful varities of magic from spirit, to dimentional powers, to the mind. The guys defeated all types of entities and this was perhaps at his weakest, as his elder form hes already beaten most entties and defeats Elder God later in Defiance to regain his full power and potential.
Whats sephiroth done with the Negative lifestream, yet you constantly use it in debates? nothing.....whats he done in general? very little, he has mostly failed attempts yet you and other FF fans hype him up to a god level when hes barely medicore.
That was a blunder 3 years ago, your making a blunder now, see the diffrence?
false, he doesnt move an entire church, hes at the back of the row of pews and Tifa is in the center, thus he probably moves about 7/8 meters at most, kain moves about 4 meters faster than Loz moves the 8....Kain moves it in about half a second, he doesnt move back at all, he slashes once then is instantly propelling himself forwards, he doesnt even leave the ground so he doesnt leap....
Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm, what kinds and severities of magic has kain shown in the Legacy of kain series? it is VERY limitied. at best, the power of the series lies at full force in the life force of nosgoth, which is a PLANET. the pillars and even the elder god's cycle is concerned with a PLANET. and guess what, kain doesnt have that ENTIRE power. heck even the elder god was subdued by DEBRIS, cursing kain and saying that SUM day hed dig out.again, can pyron kill the dispair emodied?
Darling, it should be noted that technically Dante didn't KILL Despair Embodied- just "banished" him, destroying his physical form with demonic energy...banishing a physical avatar of an abstract=\=actually killing him...though that's a feat in itself.
Just to clarify things a bit🙂 And it's unknown whether or not Pyron's physical form can be distorted in the same way as it happened to Despair Embodied.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No its storyline dilogue, as i said before, your simply ignoring it now, its not a gameplay dilogue at all, there is no way that"'Tis a spell worthy of the Necromancer himself. This allows me to dissect a creature's soul from its vessel of flesh. For these poor wretches, only oblivion awaits."
is at all gameplay diologue, its a kain personal story script, your not playing while he gets it either, it doesnt have to be in a cinematic to excist as a canon ability.
The question is, WHO has Kain ever "soul ripped" ?
also is Cloud the only one who can use KoTR? does Cloud say a diologue like the one above for Kain? you keep comparing Materia which is completyl diffrent so id like to see how many simularties you can compare...
IMe bringing up a move that is much like every character move from Kratos' powers to Dantes, described in the manuel, with story elements linked to them in-game like character spoken story dailogue that ONLY Kain can use in the game and cannot be shared with anyone. Well Kains destroyed a godlike entity that could rip apart precious FF unvierse with ease for one, defeated an entire race when younger and far weaker, even youner than that Kain defeats the circe of nine, two of which reality warped the north into Dark Eden, all of the wizards having powerful varities of magic from spirit, to dimentional powers, to the mind. The guys defeated all types of entities and this was perhaps at his weakest, as his elder form hes already beaten most entties and defeats Elder God later in Defiance to regain his full power and potential.
Kain destroyed Elder God? No he didn't, he basically only repelled him, nor does Elder God have much feats besides having souls and turning the wheel of fate, in terms of power what feats does he have?
Whats sephiroth done with the Negative lifestream, yet you constantly use it in debates? nothing.....whats he done in general? very little, he has mostly failed attempts yet you and other FF fans hype him up to a god level when hes barely medicore.
That was a blunder 3 years ago, your making a blunder now, see the diffrence?
false, he doesnt move an entire church, hes at the back of the row of pews and Tifa is in the center, thus he probably moves about 7/8 meters at most, kain moves about 4 meters faster than Loz moves the 8....Kain moves it in about half a second, he doesnt move back at all, he slashes once then is instantly propelling himself forwards, he doesnt even leave the ground so he doesnt leap....
If he can move like that instantly without having to launch then ill give you that hes fast movement speed, however its not hard to launch yourself and move a few meters, go ahead and try launching yourself and leaping a couple meters.
Loz' on the other hand boots a bench at Tifa, and is still at the same spot even after the bench has gone off screen, he doesn't even start to move until she hits it
As Tifa hits it, she doesn't even have time to change her face expression because Loz is already behind her.
watch at 3:12
YouTube video
Theres a huge difference in using momentum to travel a few feet, and travelling across a church with just movement speed.
Originally posted by Terryc250
That has NOTHING to do with the story, its a description of the [b]optional spell, you don't need to get that spell to continue on with the story, its how a description of Sephiroths heartless angel is how it induces every status on its foes, but theres no reason to assume that it can do it on higher beings like Eternity for example.The question is, WHO has Kain ever "soul ripped" ?
Why does it matter if Cloud isn't the only one who can use materia? I've asked you for proof before of Kain being the only person able to learn spells and you failed to provide me any. You're really going to claim Kain is the only being that can use a spell in the LOK universe? Even Madmel disagrees with you, what relevance does it even have if more then one person can use the materia/spell?
Give me an example of a debate of Dante/Kratos, because the debates ive seen, they were using dantes style which he always has, or Kratos' powers that he actually has like the sword of olympus which he actually uses in canon.
Kain destroyed Elder God? No he didn't, he basically only repelled him, nor does Elder God have much feats besides having souls and turning the wheel of fate, in terms of power what feats does he have?
What is the lifestream capable of? Well it was able to destroy meteor, its the source of life on the planet, its the source of power on the planet, its the source of energy, its the source of magic, Sephiroth gained control over it with the j-cells, he created the SHM, the SHM used a fraction of its powers as magic, Sephiroth appeared for 10 minutes and displayed it, Kain had 4 entire sequals to show his "spirit death" yet the name was never even uttered.
It was 2 years ago, and your special version of Kain hasn't changed at all.
... He slashes once, pulls back and launches, stop denying this:
If he can move like that instantly without having to launch then ill give you that hes fast movement speed, however its not hard to launch yourself and move a few meters, go ahead and try launching yourself and leaping a couple meters.
Loz' on the other hand boots a bench at Tifa, and is still at the same spot even after the bench has gone off screen, he doesn't even start to move until she hits it
As Tifa hits it, she doesn't even have time to change her face expression because Loz is already behind her.
watch at 3:12
YouTube videoTheres a huge difference in using momentum to travel a few feet, and travelling across a church with just movement speed. [/B]
But its not, its not giving gameplay effects, as you said, Heartless angel gameplay description which is not storyline says status effects, the gameplay description of Spirit death is:
"instantly kills non boss enemies"
but ime not talking about gameplay, ime talking about storyline text, show me the storyline text of Kinghts of the round?
You see you cant answer that, it matters because if several diffrent characters can and WILL actually use the same power and its selectable by the player then its non canon, thats another wya of knowing the canon of an ability, wheras like every canon ability in fiction, Kains abilities are unique to him and can be used only for him, because in the game he is known as the only vampire to use those peticulour powers, no other being in the LOK universe afa remember use Kains spirit death, not to mension its not a interchangable power like materia, materia are just items, thats all, their not like magic abilities at all. This is why you cant win debates, because you dont understand what Canon is, debating from your point of view, by asking "how do you know nobody else can use Kains powers" thats like me saying "how do we know Wolverine cant use HOTU powerz!!!" because it never happens understand?
In this debate Kratos powers such as Atlas quake are used, same with his other skills he gains, in the Kain vs Dante thread (use the search function its easy to find) all his styles, guns and weapons regardless of being shown in storyline have been used, because most of them are canon if not all. THeir not like interchangable FF materia that are completly gameplay 🙂
NO i asked for feats like you just did, not what its capable of, I can give you a long list of what Kain is capable of, but you ask for real feats, Sephiroth hsa very few, mostly failures.
It has because I no longer consider LT Kain material to fight because I now know who LT is, its been only minutes however and your alrdy going on about Sephiroths uber powerz of failure, failing to understand whats canon or gameplay among other things in this single post.
He slashes and then moves only his arm backwards, not his body, he doesnt pull back and lunges with momentum and then he moves instantly forward without even using his legs...
He moves perhaps half the distance Loz moves in less time. He moves incredibly fast, at short range he would Hit loz before Loz hits him thats for sure, ofc regardless Loz couldnt do anything, hitting kain would prob break his arm but still....launching yourself means moving your body, moving your arm back is not launching yourself....sry...
also these youtube vids are not as high quality as the real thing, ive recently picked up AC and apart from being a fairly sub par film ive seen how Loz isnt as far as it would seem in that video, the guy is perhaps only about 7/8 meters away, shes in the middle and Loz is about 5 pews down, the place itself is not that large either.
Originally posted by Burning thought
But its not, its not giving gameplay effects, as you said, Heartless angel gameplay description which is not storyline says status effects, the gameplay description of Spirit death is:"instantly kills non boss enemies"
but ime not talking about gameplay, ime talking about storyline text, show me the storyline text of Kinghts of the round?
Even looking through the LOK plot guide, Spirit Death was never mentioned anywhere in the story.
And once you reached Round Island, there was some dialogue when you entered the cave, i just don't exactly remember the quote.
You see you cant answer that, it matters because if several diffrent characters can and WILL actually use the same power and its selectable by the player then its non canon, thats another wya of knowing the canon of an ability, wheras like every canon ability in fiction, Kains abilities are unique to him and can be used only for him, because in the game he is known as the only vampire to use those peticulour powers, no other being in the LOK universe afa remember use Kains spirit death, not to mension its not a interchangable power like materia, materia are just items, thats all, their not like magic abilities at all. This is why you cant win debates, because you dont understand what Canon is, debating from your point of view, by asking "how do you know nobody else can use Kains powers" thats like me saying "how do we know Wolverine cant use HOTU powerz!!!" because it never happens understand?
So unless you give me evidence that Kains is the only vampire capable of learning spells, my point stands.
In this debate Kratos powers such as Atlas quake are used, same with his other skills he gains, in the Kain vs Dante thread (use the search function its easy to find) all his styles, guns and weapons regardless of being shown in storyline have been used, because most of them are canon if not all. THeir not like interchangable FF materia that are completly gameplay 🙂
Materia IS canon, the type of materia that the players acquire in the game, and the actual materia Cloud and co acquired in the canon story are different however. Materia are optional, Spells are optional, Cloud and Co could've missed a materia in the actual canon storyline whereas the player gained every single materia in the entire game, or Cloud and co could've gained a materia that you couldn't get in the game (bahamut sin) vice versa.
NO i asked for feats like you just did, not what its capable of, I can give you a long list of what Kain is capable of, but you ask for real feats, Sephiroth hsa very few, mostly failures.
Sephiroth has very few? ... Kain has ZERO.
It has because I no longer consider LT Kain material to fight because I now know who LT is, its been only minutes however and your alrdy going on about Sephiroths uber powerz of failure, failing to understand whats canon or gameplay among other things in this single post.
He moves perhaps half the distance Loz moves in less time. He moves incredibly fast, at short range he would Hit loz before Loz hits him thats for sure, ofc regardless Loz couldnt do anything, hitting kain would prob break his arm but still....launching yourself means moving your body, moving your arm back is not launching yourself....sry...also these youtube vids are not as high quality as the real thing, ive recently picked up AC and apart from being a fairly sub par film ive seen how Loz isnt as far as it would seem in that video, the guy is perhaps only about 7/8 meters away, shes in the middle and Loz is about 5 pews down, the place itself is not that large either. [/B]
Less time? Are you crazy? Loz is behind Tifa before she can even blink, she was staring at Loz and he was behind her before she even noticed he was gone.
Kain PULLS back, not just his arm, his body shifts back as well, Kain does NOT move that fast with regular movement speed, only you would try to claim he does.
Theres a huge difference in moving a few meters by pulling back and going forward, and moving the distance Loz did with just movement speed.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBelFirst of all, you sound pretty. 🙂
Darling, it should be noted that technically Dante didn't KILL Despair Embodied- just "banished" him, destroying his physical form with demonic energy...banishing a physical avatar of an abstract=\=actually killing him...though that's a feat in itself.
Just to clarify things a bit🙂 And it's unknown whether or not Pyron's physical form can be distorted in the same way as it happened to Despair Embodied.
Pyron doesn't have a physical form when he is at his strongest actually, at his most powerful he is a Cosmic energy being, he however did lower himself to a physical, mortal form to fight the Darkstalkers, which allowed Demitri to best him after a difficult fight, Demitri being the most powerful living Darkstalker at the time mind you. His mortal form is corruptible, Demitri was able to absorb the defeated Pyron using the Midnight Bliss. But even this weakened Pyron by Demitri's own admission was a worthy and powerful opponent, at Pyron's strongest, he could have simply devoured the very planet, adding Earth to just another piece of the many galaxies worth of life he has absorbed.
Also, what exactly is the Despair Embodied? Since I hate Dante and DMC with a seething passion(no offence 😛) I am not sure.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
First of all, you sound pretty. 🙂Pyron doesn't have a physical form when he is at his strongest actually, at his most powerful he is a Cosmic energy being, he however did lower himself to a physical, mortal form to fight the Darkstalkers, which allowed Demitri to best him after a difficult fight, Demitri being the most powerful living Darkstalker at the time mind you. His mortal form is corruptible, Demitri was able to absorb the defeated Pyron using the Midnight Bliss. But even this weakened Pyron by Demitri's own admission was a worthy and powerful opponent, at Pyron's strongest, he could have simply devoured the very planet, adding Earth to just another piece of the many galaxies worth of life he has absorbed.
Also, what exactly is the Despair Embodied? Since I hate Dante and DMC with a seething passion(no offence 😛) I am not sure.
An avatar of universal concept of despair- final boss in DMC2 (game with the strongest Dante chronology-wise, yet the suckiest one gameplaywise). In gameplay the thing is faster than you even in normal DT and Sparda form...yet storylinewise it gets beaten by teleporting speedblitz.
In the end it gets disperced by Dante focusing all his demonic energy in his guns to blast through its protection (a simple blast would have achieved nothing, so it was needed to camouflage it as "gunshot"- most demons (minus Dante and his dad) in DMCverse hate guns and have no protection against them as they don't feel the need to protect from such lowly thing- that's why Sparda family trademark technique of charging guns with demonic energy and delievering blasts of said energy in form of gunshots ruled ). Despair Embodied' avatar gets dispersed and disappears...probably banished from that realm.
The dispersion happened cause of very powerful yet very condensed (in shape of bullet) energy blast passing through it.
Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Dante vs Despair EmbodiedDante banishes the demonic embodiment of despair (god level being) back to the hell realm with his Jackpot move (charging all his demonic energy in a single gunshot). In fact, Jackpot trick is sort of trojan horse stuff, since demons in DMCverse have developed the art of defence against energy blast, but at the same time looked at bullets as at something "harmless". Dante's legendary father was the first to develop the trick of charging guns with demonic energy, thus disguising blasts as bullets.
YouTube video