Pyron Vs God kratos, kain , Sparda

Originally posted by Terryc250
Thats not a [b]storyline description, because it has nothing to do with the storyline, its just a description, the style they developed BO1 is by using voices and not text, does that make every single thing part of the plot? No, are all the common chained up grunts screaming "help me help me help me help me help me" like a million times part of the actual plot? No.

Even looking through the LOK plot guide, Spirit Death was never mentioned anywhere in the story.

And once you reached Round Island, there was some dialogue when you entered the cave, i just don't exactly remember the quote.

uhh Materia is canon though, you see it in AC don't you? The thing is we don't see any of these spells in any other sequal or even hear the name ever. You keep saying "kains abilities are unique to him" and i'm asking you, wheres your evidence that no other beings can learn the spells? Vorador can learn spells, any other strong vampire can learn spells as well. Just because it doesn't happen it doesn't mean its not possible. I said if there were any other vampires or characters. Wolverine? Who knows. Adam Warlock? Sure. Galactus? Sure. Eternity? Sure. Richards? Probably.

So unless you give me evidence that Kains is the only vampire capable of learning spells, my point stands.

I asked you for an example of a debate, show me a link, no one really debates gameplay moves because they're inaccurate, we debate using feats and canon abilities, again Dante's styles are canon, in every game he has trickster, etc.

Materia IS canon, the type of materia that the players acquire in the game, and the actual materia Cloud and co acquired in the canon story are different however. Materia are optional, Spells are optional, Cloud and Co could've missed a materia in the actual canon storyline whereas the player gained every single materia in the entire game, or Cloud and co could've gained a materia that you couldn't get in the game (bahamut sin) vice versa.

And i gave you feats of the lifestream, it spawned all the life on the planet, it is basically the source of the planet itself, it destroyed meteor, it lent its magic to all materia, Holy,Meteor,every element, it powered the planet with energy.

Sephiroth has very few? ... Kain has ZERO.

Uhh I used Sephiroths gameplay moves as an example, your the one who started talking about Sephiroth and his actual canon abilities.. Sephiroths "uber power of failure"? Better then Burning Thoughts god-killing version of Kain.
He slashes and then moves only his arm backwards, not his body, he doesnt pull back and lunges with momentum and then he moves instantly forward without even using his legs...

Less time? Are you crazy? Loz is behind Tifa before she can even blink, she was staring at Loz and he was behind her before she even noticed he was gone.

Kain PULLS back, not just his arm, his body shifts back as well, Kain does NOT move that fast with regular movement speed, only you would try to claim he does.

Theres a huge difference in moving a few meters by pulling back and going forward, and moving the distance Loz did with just movement speed. [/B]

Its a storyline description, its a description based around the games canon, he even talks about a canon character the Necromancer, its storyline, what are you calling storyline? a cinematic? no thats not true at all m8, not at all....

Materia in general ive seen, but what each one really is ime not sure, all ive seen of them is that they simply power you up allowing you to increase your abilities, all they show in AC is in the form of blasts. And ofc summonig that big beast.

So your claiming spiderman could have the power of Galactus? but because nobody can prove nobody apart from Galactus can have his power everyone is apprently free game? well done smart one, this is ridiculous Terry, I could simply claim how do you know Kain doesnt have all of Sephiroths powers? or perhaps the children in AC have the power of Sephiroth and Cloud combined! we jsut dont know it! zomg!! ime sorry Terry, but claiming gameplay is one level of fail, but what this is, is a level of fail beyond any other.

Kain has the power of the Living tribunal then...we just cant prove he doesnt?

Jsut because its in every game its canon? Theres a lot of materia in FF in most games, also look through this thread, youll find people debating using Kratos' powers like Atlas quake.

Sephiroth has failures, thats his few and Kain has the ones ive listed, read my posts through again please.

Theres another fail, you say "god-killing" using titles is another gameplay debate fail. If you would like to know, kain has also the God title.

Just his arm terry, show me where his whole body moves back and not just his arm? there is no happening of this 🙄 .

Loz moves about 8 meters, Kain moves 4/5 in less time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its a storyline description, its a description based around the games canon, he even talks about a canon character the Necromancer, its storyline, what are you calling storyline? a cinematic? no thats not true at all m8, not at all....

Materia in general ive seen, but what each one really is ime not sure, all ive seen of them is that they simply power you up allowing you to increase your abilities, all they show in AC is in the form of blasts. And ofc summonig that big beast.

So your claiming spiderman could have the power of Galactus? but because nobody can prove nobody apart from Galactus can have his power everyone is apprently free game? well done smart one, this is ridiculous Terry, I could simply claim how do you know Kain doesnt have all of Sephiroths powers? or perhaps the children in AC have the power of Sephiroth and Cloud combined! we jsut dont know it! zomg!! ime sorry Terry, but claiming gameplay is one level of fail, but what this is, is a level of fail beyond any other.

Its funny how you don't seem to realize that all Kain is is simply gameplay, yet you accuse people of just using "gameplay" so you can make up your own bs for kain.

Kain has the power of the Living tribunal then...we just cant prove he doesnt?

Jsut because its in every game its canon? Theres a lot of materia in FF in most games, also look through this thread, youll find people debating using Kratos' powers like Atlas quake.

Sephiroth has failures, thats his few and Kain has the ones ive listed, read my posts through again please.

Theres another fail, you say "god-killing" using titles is another gameplay debate fail. If you would like to know, kain has also the God title.

Just his arm terry, show me where his whole body moves back and not just his arm? there is no happening of this 🙄
Loz moves about 8 meters, Kain moves 4/5 in less time. [/B]

How can you not see his body shifting back then pushing his weight forward?

Less time? Stop lying, Tifa didn't even have time to blink, Loz travelled further and much faster with just movement speed, Kain had to launch himself and he moved smaller distance in a slower speed.

The difference is Loz doesn't need to shift his weight back then propell forward to move at that speed, he just moves that fast with movement speed, its like saying Kain can punch hard but he has to pull back then propell forward to hit at that strength while Loz can just throw a jab at even higher strength and distance.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain is the balance guardian thus, he is the one who sets the bar for his magic, not some invisble force and not some alternate power, he is his own regulator now, which obviously unless there is major PIS involved means he is not likely to regulate himself to any degree inthis fight. And why do you mention Planet? yes it is a planet....in the Spawn comics dont both God and Satan fight over a single planet Earth? the fact its a planet means nothng. The Elder God was not subdued by Debris so its when you say things like that its obvious youve not played the game even though you claimed ot have done earlier, especially when you say he said he would some day dig out.....no he never said that either, you obviously dont know anything about the game.

Its incredibly simple, Kain [b]regulates the power of magic, i.e determining its power, thus, Kain would give himself unlimited magic, and with this unlmited magic, the process starts again because his regulation powers are based on magic as well....thus, infnite magic, controlling infnite magic....you lose [/B]

the magic comes FROM nosgoth u bufoon! it is a LIMITED source. also, if he cud DO that, then why wud he not just destroy the cycle of the souls with pure power and kill the elder god and resurrect razial? why did he need razial's soul and the soul reaver to even ENTER the realm of the elder god and harm him?????? why was he still not able to kill the elder god???? why cudnt he just manipulate reality at a whim instead of going through all the troubles he did?!?!?!!?!?!?!

and no, it seems like YOU havent played the game kid. in the end of defiance, the room the elder god is in starts to crumble taking the elder god down with it

"one day your wretched stagnant soul will finally be mine"

kain: "until then, ud best burrow deep".

the elder god is trapped without much of his power underneath a lot of rubble. AND ur an idiot.

Originally posted by Terryc250
... its not a storyline description because it has nothing to do with the storyline, what part of that don't you understand? If it was a dialogue that had to do with the story and was mandatory to learn like "Now that i have the power to use TK to push over that switch" or something like that then it would be canon to the story.

Huh? Materia are little balls that let you tap into a bit of the lifestreams power to use magic, different materia do different things.

... I have no idea what you're talking about, who said spiderman could have the power of Galactus? Do you even know who Galactus is? He was born before the universe was even created he is the power cosmic itself, spiderman is like a 25 year old human. You're really giving failure examples. Now if we take another human have him get bitten by a radioactive spider, he can have spidermans powers sure. I think your confused, Kain is a vampire, he learned the spells, so what evidence suggests that any other vampire is incapable of learning the spell?

Its funny how you don't seem to realize that all Kain is is simply gameplay, yet you accuse people of just using "gameplay" so you can make up your own bs for kain.

.... this doesn't even need answering.

If the character has the ability in every game then yes, its most likely canon, if it was an optional spell/materia that was unheard of again after 4 sequals, then no it was probably not canon.

Failures as in what? Not killing the protagonist? Gee i wonder, its because he's the antagonist and plots don't normally allow that, so Kains feats is killing people? Show me this "reality warping" thats probably something you just amped up, if they can "reality warp" then they would just warp kain into mush.

Huh? I say god-killing using titles is another gameplay debate fail? I have no idea what you're trying to say. But i don't care what your version of Kain has, i only care about the real Kain.

How can you not see his body shifting back then pushing his weight forward?

Less time? Stop lying, Tifa didn't even have time to blink, Loz travelled further and much faster with just movement speed, Kain had to launch himself and he moved smaller distance in a slower speed.

The difference is Loz doesn't need to shift his weight back then propell forward to move at that speed, he just moves that fast with movement speed, its like saying Kain can punch hard but he has to pull back then propell forward to hit at that strength while Loz can just throw a jab at even higher strength and distance.

Ofc its story, it mentions story characters, what part of that dont you understand? what was your argument even? all youve done is compared it to materia then ive destroyed all of them points sicne Materia has zero of what this spell has going for it, this has actual storyline characters mentioned in a cinematic,

I know what they are, and in the AC, they only gave the remnants the power to fire blasts half the time, infact perhaps thats what Materia does in canon...I mean the final two remnants who shoot cloud have like 5 of those materia in their arms each yet all they do is blast stuff...

BUt he doesnt thats the thing, your getting confused with your own argument, I mocked your argument by basicalyl saying any of these characters including wolverine may have for some reason become universal entites like Galactus by having the same occurance as Galactus, your simply giving powers to anyone you wish, its like me saying "well other spartans may also have Kratos' powers" or "well a lot of the characters in DMC may suddenly have learnt Dantes styles so he cant use htem" yet this is all nonsense youve come out with, the simple fact is, all we see in the games is Kain learning them, thus that makes them unique to kain. Whether they actualyl can learn those spells or not is irrelvent because in the game none of them do...furthermore their not selectable by the player since you only play as Kain as well..

Hes not simply gameplay wtf are you talking about.....explain this? you dont have an idea of wht your saying lmao, Its you who have your own version of Kain it seems, you cant even bring up any relevent points.

Theres no reasoning behind that, the Kain in each game is slightly diffrent and more evolved, he doesnt have to use every spell hes ever had for it to be in the game since its the same storyline and the same Kain. Thing is, an ability is an ability, if its a power that only Kain gains, is mentioned in the manuel and is mentioned in the characters actual script liek ive shown, its canon, just like Kratos' Atlas quake, explain to me how Kratos Atlas quake which people have used the many recent debates is diffrent from Kains powers?

Hes done very little, a lot of failures, including not even fighting to his "overhyped level of his enthiastic fans reach him to" against Cloud in the first place, what does he actually eventualyl succeed at?

Yes well theres the entire circle of nine, many of which have incredible powers such as instantly disintgrating energy from Dejoule to anyone who even stands near..but Kain beats her, Mortainious who created kain and who could take his spirit...etc etc, Kain would technically be unbeatable by almost any power if we assumed like some people in this forum, assumed because Kain fights many beings who have powers, heres the warp of reality:

DeJoule worked with Bane and Anarcrothe at Dark Eden. All three were tainted by Nupraptor's insanity. Approaching the area, Kain saw that their combined magic was twisting the land around Dark Eden's tower, causing mutations of plants, humans and beasts. Eventually, all of Nosgoth would have been engulfed by their growing dome of sorcery, spewing from the tower's apex

As iv e bolted, the beings around the tower get warped into twisted forms, its funny how Kain is not even harmed or affected, thus, he is immune to reality warp it seems....

yes its another gameplay debate fail because going on about the "God" title is simply that. Well thats funny, because my Kain is the real one as the debate has shown so far..youve not even brought any points against me, your simply nitpicking atm spells and abilities, using your own gameplay as well as blurred and broken logic.

Hes body is not moving at all Terry lol.....his wait and his lower back are in the same position during all those images, only his arm has moved backwards....the guys legs dont move either when he does it so hes not leaping either. He moves his arms only...

He took an entire second to reach tifa over about 8 meters, if that, Kain took about half a second to reach Raziel over about 5 meters, Kain is therefore faster and not to mention this, but Loz needs that little thing on his arm for speed, it charges, ive watched the fiml and he doesnt speed up at all after its broken.

Show me this, he isnt just moving and he wouldnt be able to do what Kain does anyway, hes only a remnant, hes not got the same ability as kain to move without even moving his legs or body, he just did it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the magic comes FROM nosgoth u bufoon! it is a LIMITED source. also, if he cud DO that, then why wud he not just destroy the cycle of the souls with pure power and kill the elder god and resurrect razial? why did he need razial's soul and the soul reaver to even ENTER the realm of the elder god and harm him?????? why was he still not able to kill the elder god???? why cudnt he just manipulate reality at a whim instead of going through all the troubles he did?!?!?!!?!?!?!

and no, it seems like YOU havent played the game kid. in the end of defiance, the room the elder god is in starts to crumble taking the elder god down with it

"one day your wretched stagnant soul will finally be mine"

kain: "until then, ud best burrow deep".

the elder god is trapped without much of his power underneath a lot of rubble. AND ur an idiot.

wtf you talking about? Kain regulates magic in Nosgoth and your childish insults mean nothing to me lol. Nothing points to magic being anything more than energy which is unlmited, not to mention its a force used constantly and consistently like energy, if there is a lmit to magic, Kain wont find it in something as quck as a VS debate. Second Having unlmited magic only happens at the end of the game, he onoly just gains it, how he defeats the Elder God we know, he uses the reaver, thus only the reaver is known to be effective, not magic we cant run around guessing, or at least thats not a clever tinhg to do and is irrelvent, but you and Terry seem to enjoy it.

No youve not played the game, it doesnt take EG, before the fight EG says hes going to bury Kain under a mountain of rubble, the EG if you had any idea of the LOK series is underground already covering the entire continent of Nosgoth, if youve even watched any of the gameplay vids youd know EG can regenrate limbs instatly anyway.

how old are you? how is that a clever end to a post "AND ur an idiot" its like a 10 year old would say, go and play the game or better yet, watch this ime tired of your foolery when youve not even played the game: At 7.13

YouTube video

You may ponder the futility of your ambitions as you spend a deathless eternity beneath a mountain of rubble

Now unless I picked up on that wrongly....he just claimed HE HIMSELF is apprently trying to bury himself even after saying this to Kain? what rubbish, the fact alone you dont realise EG is in about 100 other locations across the continents of Nosgoth UNDER THE GROUND ANTWAY.

as Kain said, this is not a debate, this is me mercily thrashing you and Terry.

^a kid "mercilessly thrashing" me? LMAO!!!!!!!!!! wow well done fanboy
all ur really mercilessly thrashing, r ur non existing balls. EVERYTHING points towards magic being connected with the land of nosgoth. the land gives life and everything that comes with it. WHY do you think{oh wait, ur not capable of THINKING r u?} the destruction of the pillars was such a big deal and why the land of nosgoth became lifeless afterwards?!?!?! there is NUTHING to suggest that magic is infinite in legacy of kain. its anything BUT.

as for the reaver, the reaver is also a MAGICAL artifact and its power comes from raziel's soul. so again, why is it that INFINITE magic cant defeat the elder god or even undo any of the things that plagued raziel and kain in their quest??? infact what CAN this magic do?! why dont you show me cannon feats of what its DONE!!!! cant find any impressive ones?! lol. your using the approach of asking the genie for more wishes on ur third wish, it doesnt work that way. he cant MAGICALLY make INFINITE magic. thats just absurd.

as for the last part concerning the elder god, those places where he exists are simply MANIFESTATIONS, in the soul realm. however, the place where kain FACES him, is the real deal. and i never said KAIN traps him under rubble, i just said he is trapped under a lot of rubble.

and these two statement are enough to destroy any of your moroninc arguments.

E.G: "one day ur wretched stagnant soul will finally be mine

kain :until then, ud best burrow deep {now WHAT does he mean by that hmmmm????? moron}

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ofc its story, it mentions story characters, what part of that dont you understand? what was your argument even? all youve done is compared it to materia then ive destroyed all of them points sicne Materia has zero of what this spell has going for it, this has actual storyline characters mentioned in a cinematic,

Spells and materia are not much difference, and you've done nothing to prove that they arent.

I know what they are, and in the AC, they only gave the remnants the power to fire blasts half the time, infact perhaps thats what Materia does in canon...I mean the final two remnants who shoot cloud have like 5 of those materia in their arms each yet all they do is blast stuff...

BUt he doesnt thats the thing, your getting confused with your own argument, I mocked your argument by basicalyl saying any of these characters including wolverine may have for some reason become universal entites like Galactus by having the same occurance as Galactus, your simply giving powers to anyone you wish, its like me saying "well other spartans may also have Kratos' powers" or "well a lot of the characters in DMC may suddenly have learnt Dantes styles so he cant use htem" yet this is all nonsense youve come out with, the simple fact is, all we see in the games is Kain learning them, thus that makes them unique to kain. Whether they actualyl can learn those spells or not is irrelvent because in the game none of them do...furthermore their not selectable by the player since you only play as Kain as well..

Galactus is different from a human, a vampire IS a vampire.

If a human went through the same process galactus did to become galactus, then yes he can obtain the power cosmic (you fail again)

If Ares gave the spartan powers of the god of war, then yes he can become similar to Kratos (you fail again)

If a character half demon like Dante, Vergil for example, can learn the styles as well, hes not incapable of learning them (you fail yet again)

Hes not simply gameplay wtf are you talking about.....explain this? you dont have an idea of wht your saying lmao, Its you who have your own version of Kain it seems, you cant even bring up any relevent points.

Theres no reasoning behind that, the Kain in each game is slightly diffrent and more evolved, he doesnt have to use every spell hes ever had for it to be in the game since its the same storyline and the same Kain. Thing is, an ability is an ability, if its a power that only Kain gains, is mentioned in the manuel and is mentioned in the characters actual script liek ive shown, its canon, just like Kratos' Atlas quake, explain to me how Kratos Atlas quake which people have used the many recent debates is diffrent from Kains powers?

Was Atlas Quake just an optional spell that could be learned? Or is it part of his character assets? And i've searched this thread, and i don't see it being used.

Hes done very little, a lot of failures, including not even fighting to his "overhyped level of his enthiastic fans reach him to" against Cloud in the first place, what does he actually eventualyl succeed at?

Because if he did fight at 100% then the story would be ruined as the protagonist would be dead.

Yes well theres the entire circle of nine, many of which have incredible powers such as instantly disintgrating energy from Dejoule to anyone who even stands near..but Kain beats her, Mortainious who created kain and who could take his spirit...etc etc, Kain would technically be unbeatable by almost any power if we assumed like some people in this forum, assumed because Kain fights many beings who have powers, heres the warp of reality:

"DeJoule worked with Bane and Anarcrothe at Dark Eden. All three were tainted by Nupraptor's insanity. Approaching the area, Kain saw that their combined magic was twisting the land around Dark Eden's tower, causing mutations of plants, humans and beasts. Eventually, all of Nosgoth would have been engulfed by their growing dome of sorcery, spewing from the tower's apex"

Doesn't sound impressive nor does is it even a battle feat.

As iv e bolted, the beings around the tower get warped into twisted forms, its funny how Kain is not even harmed or affected, thus, he is immune to reality warp it seems....

yes its another gameplay debate fail because going on about the "God" title is simply that. Well thats funny, because my Kain is the real one as the debate has shown so far..youve not even brought any points against me, your simply nitpicking atm spells and abilities, using your own gameplay as well as blurred and broken logic.

Hes body is not moving at all Terry lol.....his wait and his lower back are in the same position during all those images, only his arm has moved backwards....the guys legs dont move either when he does it so hes not leaping either. He moves his arms only...

He took an entire second to reach tifa over about 8 meters, if that, Kain took about half a second to reach Raziel over about 5 meters, Kain is therefore faster and not to mention this, but Loz needs that little thing on his arm for speed, it charges, ive watched the fiml and he doesnt speed up at all after its broken.

Even the UOG says Loz' speed doesn't suggest anything to do with his Dual Hound.

Show me this, he isnt just moving and he wouldnt be able to do what Kain does anyway, hes only a remnant, hes not got the same ability as kain to move without even moving his legs or body, he just did it. [/B]

Kain DOES have to move his body back then propel forward to move at that speed genius, then why don't you show me him moving at that speed normally then? Oh it must be because "kain just chooses not to".

Kain has to launch himself like this, to move a couple meters fast, its different from Loz' movement speed

Originally posted by Terryc250
It doesn't mention story characterS, it says worthy of the necromancer, what does theo optional spell have to do with the [b]story <-- read that word. Absolutely nothing, you've destroyed nothing rofl, you've given hilarious failure examples thats all.

Spells and materia are not much difference, and you've done nothing to prove that they arent.

Perhaps materia does what in canon? I told you what materia does, so don't try to argue facts.

No see this is where your examples fail

Galactus is different from a human, a vampire IS a vampire.

If a human went through the same process galactus did to become galactus, then yes he can obtain the power cosmic (you fail again)

If Ares gave the spartan powers of the god of war, then yes he can become similar to Kratos (you fail again)

If a character half demon like Dante, Vergil for example, can learn the styles as well, hes not incapable of learning them (you fail yet again)

Yes he is gameplay because he has no feats outside of gameplay, what has he done outside of gameplay? Cut off peoples heads? No it seems your the only one with a special kain.

So its either
1) Kain for some reason just chooses not to use the power ever
2) the optional spell was never obtained in the canon storyline which explains why its never seen or unheard of again in the next 4 sequals

Was Atlas Quake just an optional spell that could be learned? Or is it part of his character assets? And i've searched this thread, and i don't see it being used.

Again with no answer, i asked you what his "failures" are, and you reply with that kind of answer rofl.

Because if he did fight at 100% then the story would be ruined as the protagonist would be dead.

Show me this disintegrating energy

"DeJoule worked with Bane and Anarcrothe at Dark Eden. All three were tainted by Nupraptor's insanity. Approaching the area, Kain saw that their combined magic was twisting the land around Dark Eden's tower, causing mutations of plants, humans and beasts. Eventually, all of Nosgoth would have been engulfed by their growing dome of sorcery, spewing from the tower's apex"

Doesn't sound impressive nor does is it even a battle feat.

HAHA Or its not even a reality warp.. Reality warping is WARPING REALITY, if you are part of reality then you will get warped, nothing states its reality warping, mutating plants and animals around a tower isn't much of reality warping, its just sorcery as its stated in the quote.

I didn't give anyone a god title i said your special version of kain is a god-killer, meaning it kills everything, its funny how its only you and maybe one other person on the planet who see's this "real version" of kain.

Seriously you must be blind or in denial if you think his body isn't moving, pictures don't lie, and he doesn't really have to move his legs much, its about shifting weights putting your weight on your back leg, and launching forward, you don't hold out your arm like that if your simply just jabbing.

It didn't take an entire second wtf are you talking about? The time Tifa hit the bench he was still in the same spot, as the picture showed it was quite clear, he got there before she could even blink or change expressions. Over about 5 meters? It was like 3 meters.. And no stop lying you don't see Loz move at that speed after his Dual Hound is broken is well because hes not in the film after his dual hound was broken he was hit with a TNT and didn't show up again until he shot Cloud, duh.

Even the UOG says Loz' speed doesn't suggest anything to do with his Dual Hound.

5:58, even in the air hes able to boost his speed whenever he wants
YouTube video

Kain DOES have to move his body back then propel forward to move at that speed genius, then why don't you show me him moving at that speed normally then? Oh it must be because "kain just chooses not to". [/B]

Because its mentioned in storyline tone thats why.

Diffrences:

1. Materia can be selected by the player in-game to be used by almost any character
2. Materia are simply mentioned in gameplay terms, no canon story terms.

1*. Kains spells are his only, only Kain gains them throughout the game
2*. Kains spells not only have storyline script for every one he gains just like almost other power that is canon unlike uncaonon materia.

These are undebatable facts.

No perhaps Materia just creates blast in canon, thats shown in the AC, all we see is Remnants using many diffrent materia, and all they do is create blasts or amplify abilities, they dont seem to do anything else.

oh okie lets have another mockery of your lacking debating technique

Kain has all the powers Demitri and Jedah have in DS....they are vampires.

So w8 a min, your creating some half @ssed theory based around the same beings spieces having the same pwoers? what a load of BS....

SO your saying we cannot use the power cosmic because many beings can gain it? your saying we cannot use any of the powers Kratos gains because apprently anyone can gain them? we cannot use any of Sephiroth/FF powers because anyone can gain them? and finally we cannot use Dantes styles because anyone half demon could? that was the basis of your argument, you claimed Kains spells are not unique to him and therefore we cannot use them......

youve destroyed your own argument and shown your foolery.

what are you talking about? outside of gameplay? heres a few I can remember off the top of my head:

Kains outside of gameplay feats

Defeating the circle of nine who wield powers of varying elements BO
defeating Hylden Lord possesion BO
Defeating Hylden race BO 2
Destroying Hylden Lord BO 2

Defeating Raziel in the first battle in Defiance nad tooling him throughout the series most games
Defeated a multidimentional godlike entity Defiance

Ofc actual feats are just as good as capabiltiies he has not used in large events.

1) thats the correct one, although more likely its not Kain who chooses, tis the developers of the game

2) no because thats the thing, its in the canon story as soon as Kain gives a storyline speech on it, just like any other canon power in gaming.

Atlas quake along with all the powers are gained the same way Kain gains his spells, their placed in the players path so that you cant get around them but technicaly, the player "chooses the option" to pass through otherwise you cannot contue, just like DMC powers, only DMC powers are also bought.

All his plans are failures overall, he plans to gain all the power of the Shinra thing but he is foiled, he plans to use the planet as a ship but is foiled, all his plans seem to fail and their only a couple, ive not seen every moment of the FF games so I wouldnt know every failure, but he fails overall in his schemes since obviously...he is not ruler of the world.

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/dejoule.php?sec=1&type=1

"The cloak's lining was scorched and melted. It served as an insulator, made to protect DeJoule's colleagues from her deadly radiance, lest it char and burn them to withered, smouldering husks."

Whatever it sounds like to you, it happens, and yes it is warping reality, their warping trees and objects and beings into diffrent forms, the fact their using magic and sorcery to cause the warp in reality is neither here nor there.

But Gods are not everything, God is a title, you should state what you mean next time, but as I said, my version of kain is the only version of kain. What do you mean "only", what the hell are you talking about? theres perhaps a handfull of people in this forum, so who are you basing "the rest of the world" on? espcially since 80% of the people in the forum have never played a LOk game it seems and those who claim to (leon for example) get swatted in their knowledge lack.

Ill simply say your blind or in denial, the guy simply doesnt move his body back, just him arm.

Whats the UOG, whatever it is,that thing (duel hound or w/e) charges/glows when he moves fast, thus it seems to be the source of his speed, he is slow early on when hes not using it, when Tifa is fighting him normally.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Kain has to launch himself like this, to move a couple meters fast, its different from Loz' movement speed

its far more than a couple, its about 4/5 meters, about 3 meters less than Loz distance and much faster, also thats not launching, his moving his arm back ffs, his body itself is not even moving neither are his legs. You cant launch yourself without your legs normally, but Kain can.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^a kid "mercilessly thrashing" me? LMAO!!!!!!!!!! wow well done fanboy
all ur really mercilessly thrashing, r ur non existing balls. EVERYTHING points towards magic being connected with the land of nosgoth. the land gives life and everything that comes with it. WHY do you think{oh wait, ur not capable of THINKING r u?} the destruction of the pillars was such a big deal and why the land of nosgoth became lifeless afterwards?!?!?! there is NUTHING to suggest that magic is infinite in legacy of kain. its anything BUT.

as for the reaver, the reaver is also a MAGICAL artifact and its power comes from raziel's soul. so again, why is it that INFINITE magic cant defeat the elder god or even undo any of the things that plagued raziel and kain in their quest??? infact what CAN this magic do?! why dont you show me cannon feats of what its DONE!!!! cant find any impressive ones?! lol. your using the approach of asking the genie for more wishes on ur third wish, it doesnt work that way. he cant MAGICALLY make INFINITE magic. thats just absurd.

as for the last part concerning the elder god, those places where he exists are simply MANIFESTATIONS, in the soul realm. however, the place where kain FACES him, is the real deal. and i never said KAIN traps him under rubble, i just said he is trapped under a lot of rubble.

and these two statement are enough to destroy any of your moroninc arguments.

E.G: "one day ur wretched stagnant soul will finally be mine

kain :until then, ud best burrow deep {now WHAT does he mean by that hmmmm????? moron}

Now your having a tantrum by using what ive already called you against me in some attempt to attack? lol.....

The pillars give life to Nosgoth through a connection to its guardians, mainly the balance guardian, without the pillars connection the land dies, its nothing to do with the world losing all its magic since Kain uses magic long after and during the pillars destruction.

It does defeat the Elder God.....and the Soul reaver is not just magical, infact its mostly a soul blade, although it "enchanted" with magic.

Ive already shown you what the balance power can do, it regulates magic, do you understand what that means? it means he is the one who draws the line for its power, if he wants it infnite, then he is the regulator, nobody can say otherwise.

Those are all the Elder God across the entire continent, the place where Kain faces him are no diffrent, where are you getting this nonsense? see if anyone who has actually played LOK through could see this they would choke with laughter, me? ime simply sighing with pity that you dont have any idea.

They dont destroy anything, the Elder God livesu under the ground through the dimensional pathways, he "does" burrow....theres notihng there about him being buried, the guy says so himself he is trying to bury kain so stop talking nonsense.

in AC materia was used to summon bahamut, in ff-7 materia was used to summon the meteor, in dirge of cerberus materia was used to unlock omega and bring it to life as well as chaos. so no, ur wrong

by multidimensional god, so you mean a patheic octopus who cudnt even dig his way out of rubble in time?

oh and in blood omen two, every SPELL kain gains is due to beating an adversary and taking THEIR power.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
in AC materia was used to summon bahamut, in ff-7 materia was used to summon the meteor, in dirge of cerberus materia was used to unlock omega and bring it to life as well as chaos. so no, ur wrong

by multidimensional god, so you mean a patheic octopus who cudnt even dig his way out of rubble in time?

oh and in blood omen two, every SPELL kain gains is due to beating an adversary and taking THEIR power.

In AC many materia shared out amongst two guys did a total of one explosion....

I mean a multimdensional God that could defeat GOW or FF unvierses with ease due them not being able to either see or tocuh his instantly regerative tentacles and vast bulk covering continents....

so? ......

Originally posted by Burning thought
Now your having a tantrum by using what ive already called you against me in some attempt to attack? lol.....

The pillars give life to Nosgoth through a connection to its guardians, mainly the balance guardian, without the pillars connection the land dies, its nothing to do with the world losing all its magic since Kain uses magic long after and during the pillars destruction.

It does defeat the Elder God.....and the Soul reaver is not just magical, infact its mostly a soul blade, although it "enchanted" with magic.

Ive already shown you what the balance power can do, it regulates magic, do you understand what that means? it means he is the one who draws the line for its power, if he wants it infnite, then he is the regulator, nobody can say otherwise.

Those are all the Elder God across the entire continent, the place where Kain faces him are no diffrent, where are you getting this nonsense? see if anyone who has actually played LOK through could see this they would choke with laughter, me? ime simply sighing with pity that you dont have any idea.

They dont destroy anything, the Elder God livesu under the ground through the dimensional pathways, he "does" burrow....theres notihng there about him being buried, the guy says so himself he is trying to bury kain so stop talking nonsense.

the destruction of the pillars brings about the PROCESS which is ending all life. it hasnt completed, hence, there being life on nosgoth AND magic. if it was completed, nuthign wud remain on nosgoth.

again, power of the soul=magic. and u didnt answer my question, why cudnt kain beat the elder god with his IFINITE power???

you havent shown me SQUAT! no feats, no videos, not even mention of events. kain is the balance guardian, his role is to BALANCE the aspects of all other pillars. and its YOU who have the meaning of REGULATER wrong. REGULATER doesnt CREATE power, it CONTROLS power. kain cud, pehraps forcibly tilt the magical power of one aspect over another, but those aspects of the other pillars arent HIS to control, only to DISTRIBUTE and balance. even IF the regulater was the controller, the REGULATER's power wud depend on the power SUPPLY, he or she can not have more power than the power SUPPY, and the power supply is nosgoth{and again, kain doesnt posess all the magical power of nosgoth, as other beings also have power, mobius and the elder god for one}. and most importantly, he has no feats, no mention of this INFINITE power in game, heck he cud do a million usedful things with such power, is he stupid that he doesnt use it?

people here HAVE played legacy of kain and it seems, they all disagree and laugh at YOU without fail. so that tells me sumthing. what kain battled was the TRUE version of the elder god. he exists in many places, but hes never engaged any1 at those places has he. you are implying that kain only beat the elder god present at ONE place while all the others remain unharmed and powerful.

the last cutscene of the game is evidence enough, he mentions to raziel/kain that HIS patience was eternal but that they wud spend eternity buried forever with him and wudnt be able to bear it. so confirming, that he was infact burried.

Originally posted by Burning thought
In AC many materia shared out amongst two guys did a total of one explosion....

I mean a multimdensional God that could defeat GOW or FF unvierses with ease due them not being able to either see or tocuh his instantly regerative tentacles and vast bulk covering continents....

so? ......

there are both weak and strong materia. youd know that if you knew anything other than your flawed ideals of legacy of kain. a single materia brough in bahamut who cud have easily levelled a city. yet another summoned meteor which cud have destroyed the surface of most of the planet. that is CANNON.

no, you mean a god who dwells in the soul REALM of a single half barren planet called nosgoth which cud easily be reached by any1 with dimensional/soul powers/perception who was beaten by the soul of a SINGLE creature and defeated by being BURRIED under rubble{fact}. yea

so? so it means those SPELLS werent HIS supposed infinite magical power as ur flawed version of the balance guardian but the powers of other vampire and hildens.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the destruction of the pillars brings about the PROCESS which is ending all life. it hasnt completed, hence, there being life on nosgoth AND magic. if it was completed, nuthign wud remain on nosgoth.

again, power of the soul=magic. and u didnt answer my question, why cudnt kain beat the elder god with his IFINITE power???

you havent shown me SQUAT! no feats, no videos, not even mention of events. kain is the balance guardian, his role is to BALANCE the aspects of all other pillars. and its YOU who have the meaning of REGULATER wrong. REGULATER doesnt CREATE power, it CONTROLS power. kain cud, pehraps forcibly tilt the magical power of one aspect over another, but those aspects of the other pillars arent HIS to control, only to DISTRIBUTE and balance. even IF the regulater was the controller, the REGULATER's power wud depend on the power SUPPLY, he or she can not have more power than the power SUPPY, and the power supply is nosgoth{and again, kain doesnt posess all the magical power of nosgoth, as other beings also have power, mobius and the elder god for one}. and most importantly, he has no feats, no mention of this INFINITE power in game, heck he cud do a million usedful things with such power, is he stupid that he doesnt use it?

people here HAVE played legacy of kain and it seems, they all disagree and laugh at YOU without fail. so that tells me sumthing. what kain battled was the TRUE version of the elder god. he exists in many places, but hes never engaged any1 at those places has he. you are implying that kain only beat the elder god present at ONE place while all the others remain unharmed and powerful.

the last cutscene of the game is evidence enough, he mentions to raziel/kain that HIS patience was eternal but that they wud spend eternity buried forever with him and wudnt be able to bear it. so confirming, that he was infact burried.

Thats not true since Vampires dont need life, they are already dead, the process is simply losing Nosgoth its balane and so the land is dieing, the magic has always been there, Kain has his full power at the end of defiance where the pillars are destroyed.

No its not, its simply power of the soul. He did beat the EG.

ive shown you Kain being the Balance regulator, the regulator of magic in Nosgoth, if he regulates it, he controls it, thus he could make his magic potential infnite, Nosgoth does not lose magic show me where it says this?, also:

http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/lok/guardians.php

As it says the balance guardian regulates other magic, controls it, if you regulate magic you control what it is, its overall amount is never said to be any less than infnite since its just like energy, infact it is energy and like energy when you use it, it just changes form but you cant lose or destroy energy. He can control all attributes of the pillars since he has the reaver emblemed.

He doesnt use it because A: unbalanced, it would be as Terry said earlier like Sephiroth killing Cloud at the end, plot devices and B: he only gets it at the end after fullfilling his destiny as Balance guardian.

Whos all? show me All? youve claimed to play it yet you seem to for some reason belive the EG has clones of himself across Nosgoth, that he wasnt trying to bury Kain, he was actually trying to bury himself despite the dialogue.....you know nothing of the game.

Their all the true EG, theres only ONE EG ffs, what are you talking about? the thing is a continent sized being of multi dimensions, the only reason Kain could both see and hit the thing now is that hes purfied so you dont know what your talking about. ANd yes he attacked Raziel when he was coming out of the Underworld, he smashed at him with his tentacles.

Calling the EG buried would be like calling foxes living in a fox hole buried.....

Originally posted by leonheartmm
there are both weak and strong materia. youd know that if you knew anything other than your flawed ideals of legacy of kain. a single materia brough in bahamut who cud have easily levelled a city. yet another summoned meteor which cud have destroyed the surface of most of the planet. that is CANNON.

no, you mean a god who dwells in the soul REALM of a single half barren planet called nosgoth which cud easily be reached by any1 with dimensional/soul powers/perception who was beaten by the soul of a SINGLE creature and defeated by being BURRIED under rubble{fact}. yea

so? so it means those SPELLS werent HIS supposed infinite magical power as ur flawed version of the balance guardian but the powers of other vampire and hildens.

says the guy who thinks EG who lives underground is buried by the falling rubble lmao...yeh it summoned that thing which was also weak in the end and stopped, even a red dog can harm it, either way, these materia have either been retconned in AC or they are simply moslty weak, just not all.

exactley what I said he was, a multidmensional being the size of a continent, and no, multi dimensional, he can be in the physical world and smash physical objects AND the soul world, i.e he is not harmable by anything in FF or GOW, since he requires a plot device to be defeated.

Your talking about BO 2 Kain, he gains those powers off those beings, their not infnite in power yet, he is only infnite when he is purified at the end of Defiance.

land and PEOPLE. as well as trees etc. nosgoth was a lucious land before the guardians fought and killed. you are intentionally understimating the roles of the pillars in all the LIFE on nosgoth

power of the soul in legacy of kain=magic. it isnt scientific and it isnt neo mystical, hence makign it magic, it doesnt have to be a SPELL.

you have SAID that he is the balance guardian, every1 knows that, as every1 knows that his role is to BALANCE the aspects of all the other pillars. nowhere in game or in any EVIDENCE, youve posted does it say that kain posesses all the power of the other aspects he BALANCES or says that the collective power of the pillars is INFINITE. that is just unfounded nonsense you have invented to hype kain. and please do not use scientific reference concerning PHYSICAL energy to justify your stupid stance on MAGIC.

so you mean to say that even though you reasoning has never been described or hinted at in the game, its still shud be BELEIVED?! lol. it makes zero sense, if he has that power, he shud bring back all the pillars, bring back all the dead, make himself supreme ruler and release raziel from the prison of the reaver and PERMANENTLY kill the elder god. oh wait, WHY didnt he do any of those things?!

"i" do not beleive that E.G has clones, YOU do, since you say that they are ALL elder god. he was trying to bury himself AND raziel/kain. however, kain with raziel's help beat him and only HE got burried. the flailing tentacles as he is being buried are testament to that.

it is a being of only ONE dimension, te soul dimension, he doesnt even exist in the physical dimension. the wrest is you blabbering about things i didnt even touch. insecure much?

no callin the EG burried woul be like calling foxes burried under the collapse of their own foxholes, unable to get out, buried.

Originally posted by Burning thought
says the guy who thinks EG who lives underground is buried by the falling rubble lmao...yeh it summoned that thing which was also weak in the end and stopped, even a red dog can harm it, either way, these materia have either been retconned in AC or they are simply moslty weak, just not all.

exactley what I said he was, a multidmensional being the size of a continent, and no, multi dimensional, he can be in the physical world and smash physical objects AND the soul world, i.e he is not harmable by anything in FF or GOW, since he requires a plot device to be defeated.

Your talking about BO 2 Kain, he gains those powers off those beings, their not infnite in power yet, he is only infnite when he is purified at the end of Defiance.

who can give you video of him beig burried if you have brain enough to comprehend it. it wasnt weak, it was going to destroy a city, unless u call that weak. and it isnt a RED DOG, u moron, its the strongest spell caster in the cloud's team who fought against sephiroth called red13. dont you know ANYTHING?!??! heck, that guy controls his own personal army among many othert things. and it isnt just the dog, you seem to have missed the thing sitting on top of it. so WHY are u commenting when u havent even played thegames again?

those materia have NOT been retconned at all dumass, even AC had a cisual of the past where meteor was being summoned and holy was trying to stop it, so HOW has it been retconned again??? and dirge of cerberus happened AFTER advent children so chaos's materia cant be retconned. jeez ur silly

he is a single dimensional being who had to have RAZIEL and kain and mobius among other servant DO his biding in the real world. he only appears to RAZIEL when he enters the spectral realm. kain can roam freely in the same space without there being anything. and ofcourse he is! 😄 . any being with dimensional powers.soul powers can see him/reach him and harm him. its simply a measure of POWER, and since uve been beaten badly at your ignorant claims that no1 in dmc or ff cud do those pathetic hyped feats u mentioned, it seems that elder god will simply be overpowered and killed. it isnt a plot device. its just a measure of power.

where he has shown no spells, never claimed to be infinite, or undone anything that needed it. NICE ONE!

Originally posted by leonheartmm
land and PEOPLE. as well as trees etc. nosgoth was a lucious land before the guardians fought and killed. you are intentionally understimating the roles of the pillars in all the LIFE on nosgoth

power of the soul in legacy of kain=magic. it isnt scientific and it isnt neo mystical, hence makign it magic, it doesnt have to be a SPELL.

you have SAID that he is the balance guardian, every1 knows that, as every1 knows that his role is to BALANCE the aspects of all the other pillars. nowhere in game or in any EVIDENCE, youve posted does it say that kain posesses all the power of the other aspects he BALANCES or says that the collective power of the pillars is INFINITE. that is just unfounded nonsense you have invented to hype kain. and please do not use scientific reference concerning PHYSICAL energy to justify your stupid stance on MAGIC.

so you mean to say that even though you reasoning has never been described or hinted at in the game, its still shud be BELEIVED?! lol. it makes zero sense, if he has that power, he shud bring back all the pillars, bring back all the dead, make himself supreme ruler and release raziel from the prison of the reaver and PERMANENTLY kill the elder god. oh wait, WHY didnt he do any of those things?!

"i" do not beleive that E.G has clones, YOU do, since you say that they are ALL elder god. he was trying to bury himself AND raziel/kain. however, kain with raziel's help beat him and only HE got burried. the flailing tentacles as he is being buried are testament to that.

it is a being of only ONE dimension, te soul dimension, he doesnt even exist in the physical dimension. the wrest is you blabbering about things i didnt even touch. insecure much?

no callin the EG burried woul be like calling foxes burried under the collapse of their own foxholes, unable to get out, buried.

People are not harmed by the land dieing, the land itself is, humans still live and propsour, hell they have guns and flamethrowers in Soul reaver, the pillars are integral for Nosgoth to live, but this is irrelvent to maigc....

Its not magic, the power of the soul can be manipulated by magic its true in Nosgoth but the actual soul reaver itself is simply empowered by Raziel who eats souls....

Magic is energy, simple as, the fact science says so destroys your argument because energy is indeed infnite, there is no end to maigc because it simply is reformed into diffrent forms, not lost or destroyed so your talking nonsense and no, alone he cannot use all other powers, but with the Reaver emblems (he has the pillars emblems on the reaver if you bothered to play the game...) they give him the power over the other pillars.

because your talking about things that would happen after the game ends and second, perhaps time does not decree it? time is immutable remember, your simply guessing again, Kain simply has infnite energy that HE regulates the power of at his disposal, thus in the long run he has infnite energy because of hius regulation, he couldnt regulate if he didnt have energy to regulate with...which he does..thus creating his infnite energy cycle.

LOL! the guy LIVES underground, how difficult is that to understand? he chooses to be underground ,hes not buried at all, EG even as ive shown you claims that he wants to bury kain, nothing to do with buring them with him since he excists throughout all of Nosgot,h they are not EG clones, tehy are all part of the vast being that IS the EG....

yes he does, wtf are you talking about, how the hell could he smash physical objects in the real dimension like the citadel that he is apprently burying himself with lmao when its physical dimension, your talking about stuff you dont understand again.

Ill ignore all mentions of the EG being buried until you get some evidence up there, the thing lives underground, says itself is trying to bury Kain, and overal excists across teh whole of Nosgoth, it cannot be buried and where you really fall flat on your face is apprently it can be buried by physical rocks even when the thing itself is according to you ONLY in the soul dimension, you fail on so many levels as a debator.