Pyron Vs God kratos, kain , Sparda

Originally posted by Terryc250
Alright since its "obvious" i'll start replying like you as well.

But nothing suggests that he GAINS the optional spell, its a big "IF" if he gains it, that would be what he would say.

Just like if Cloud did get master materia, that would be what the Kalm elder says.

But in the actual story, he doesn't say that, because Cloud doesn't gain that optional spell.

What do you mean "making them in canon"? All materia is made the same way.

Kain can't blast Raziel to bits rofl, if he obviously can't TK Raziel for long, he would escape it. He was trying to reason with him, and if he actually had the spells he could've neutralized him.

Yes but that SAME KAIN gains back his memories in BO2 OF BO1, and still that SAME KAIN still couldn't use any of the BO1 optional spells.

No its optional spell period. Its not mandatory for Kain, and nothing suggests he actually gained it, its basically just a bonus spell.

No your amping up Kains power again, energy bolt won't disitegrate anything, if the character needed the item/spell to accomplish something, chances are its likely similar to what happened in the actual story.

So then Kain cannot cut through a wall? Kain cannot knock over a pole? I've given you examples, and evidence.

Not everything in-world gameplay is accurate.

You CANNOT use in-world gameplay to gauge a characters strength rofl, its just as ridiculous as saying Cloud is the size of towns.

He could've killed Cloud if he wanted to, use your brain, he had Cloud defenseless up against the wall and could've stabbed him anywhere, he accomplished that with little effort.

Tifa didn't punch through any one of them, they're tougher because theyre far faster, far more agile, and pick people up and maul through them like ragdolls

They don't even need to make a gesture and they summon them, how else would they use its magic? By wiggling their toes?

ROFL thats TK'ing BLOOD, like TK'ing liquid, he can't split jenova cells rofl, he wouldn't even beable to take Clouds J-cells out of his body, Sephiroth is a entirely different story since hes purely made up of jenova cells.

Kain has never held a person solid, hell he's never even held more then one object at once, sorry BT, but Sephroths TK is FAAAR superior then Kains, anyone can tell you that.

Wtf? Holy isn't a bomb that needs to hit something for a spark to ignite HAHA, its not a "ball" lol, its a WAVE of energy. You're failing miserably BT.

Kain has done jack, all he's done is kill some people lol.

And kalm elder talks about Meteor, and talks about Ultimate Weapon, thats linking with the "universe" does that make it any different? No.

And as i've said before, if its optional it means its possible the character doesn't obtain the OPTIONAL item/magic/equipment in the actual storyline, comprehend it.

I've given you examples and evidence, so just concede and stop repeating that same argument.

Rofl how is that "spirit death"? Its just lightning, its not ripping souls or doing anything of that sort.

So there you have it, zero proof of Kain obtaining Spirit Death in the actual canon storyline.

No but theres no "if" other than the players optional gameplay.

wtf indeed, Kain disintegrates Raziels material form in the very video I posted below. Cant TK raziel for long? nobody has escaped Kains TK and raziel has not the means to do so either, and incapacitate is not permanent either. Neutralised, what do you mean by that? as i said, Kain doesnt have a spell that he would use on Raziel where TK could have just done the same thing.

No he doesnt, in BO2 he doesnt remember the spells, he remembers what he did yeh....

yeh it would be a bonus spell until Kain claimed he actually got the spell, but then again youll say "zomg but its optional gameplay that determines the spell!"

Ime amping kain? so your claiming you know what energy botl does to enemies? as soon as you said that I know youve prob never even seen energy bolt....sad..sad...and again, how sad you assume the energy bolt would have disintegrated the little leaver, simple. No nothing suggests its likely the way it definatley happened, thats just gameplay.

Whats kain not cutting a wall to do with gameplay mechanics or balance? lol...sad again

Far faster and agile I would give you but the mauling of people means little if the Sarafan have magic shields to protect them and far better armour, their more deadly overall since they actually have weapons unlike those beats who seem to disapear or get defeated as soon as they arrive.

Well it could have been an Aura that summoned them they took an hour forming earlier, it could have been some dark materia they were using, your the one assuming things that you dont know as fact...

yeh, as i said, you were stupidly foolish and didnt even know Kain could TK blood, simple, liquid, blood cells-->Jenova cells.....whats the diffrence? kain would prob make Sephiroth fall apart with a few well placed TK manipulations.

not at all, its superior simply by the fact he has held more people than Kain has shown, but Kain has still better TK manipulations like liquid manip, he can control small objects as well.

Youve already failed miseralby, show me this wave please and holy DOES have to hit before it effective.

Killed "some" people? killed/defeated beings that would crush the FF7 world with ease, especially as an army.

Ive given you evidence of how your lame gameplay usage and notion of thinking Players determine canon means nothing to Kain himself saying he has the spell.

Have you seen spirit death? it looks very similir and it is sending Raziels soul to the underworld in a single blast as well so you obviously once again dont understand LOK....

So there you have it, delusions of gameplay from Terry, lack of understanding of gameplay/canon overall and gameplay mechanics/balance with a nice blob of bias and disbelief in the actual in-game characters of LOK of his word being higher than theirs....

Originally posted by Burning thought
No but theres no "if" other than the players optional gameplay.

wtf indeed, Kain disintegrates Raziels material form in the very video I posted below. Cant TK raziel for long? nobody has escaped Kains TK and raziel has not the means to do so either, and incapacitate is not permanent either. Neutralised, what do you mean by that? as i said, Kain doesnt have a spell that he would use on Raziel where TK could have just done the same thing.

No he doesnt, in BO2 he doesnt remember the spells, he remembers what he did yeh....

yeh it would be a bonus spell until Kain claimed he actually got the spell, but then again youll say "zomg but its optional gameplay that determines the spell!"

Ime amping kain? so your claiming you know what energy botl does to enemies? as soon as you said that I know youve prob never even seen energy bolt....sad..sad...and again, how sad you assume the energy bolt would have disintegrated the little leaver, simple. No nothing suggests its likely the way it definatley happened, thats just gameplay.

Whats kain not cutting a wall to do with gameplay mechanics or balance? lol...sad again

Far faster and agile I would give you but the mauling of people means little if the Sarafan have magic shields to protect them and far better armour, their more deadly overall since they actually have weapons unlike those beats who seem to disapear or get defeated as soon as they arrive.

Well it could have been an Aura that summoned them they took an hour forming earlier, it could have been some dark materia they were using, your the one assuming things that you dont know as fact...

yeh, as i said, you were stupidly foolish and didnt even know Kain could TK blood, simple, liquid, blood cells-->Jenova cells.....whats the diffrence? kain would prob make Sephiroth fall apart with a few well placed TK manipulations.

not at all, its superior simply by the fact he has held more people than Kain has shown, but Kain has still better TK manipulations like liquid manip, he can control small objects as well.

Youve already failed miseralby, [b]show me this wave please and holy DOES have to hit before it effective.

Killed "some" people? killed/defeated beings that would crush the FF7 world with ease, especially as an army.

Ive given you evidence of how your lame gameplay usage and notion of thinking Players determine canon means nothing to Kain himself saying he has the spell.

Have you seen spirit death? it looks very similir and it is sending Raziels soul to the underworld in a single blast as well so you obviously once again dont understand LOK....

So there you have it, delusions of gameplay from Terry, lack of understanding of gameplay/canon overall and gameplay mechanics/balance with a nice blob of bias and disbelief in the actual in-game characters of LOK of his word being higher than theirs.... [/B]

Yes there is an "IF" Kains entire optional dialogue is an "IF", its IF he obtains the spell he says that dialogue.

Its no different from the optional items/magic/equipment from any FF game, IF the object is acquired a dialogue is shown, if there isn't then there isn't. Nothing proves that Kain actually obtained that spell in the storyline so don't reply saying "zomg theres optional dialogue!!!"

Why can't Raziel just TK him back? His arms are free. If he used one of his spells he could put him in a position where Raziel would be unable to do anything and so Kain can reason with him, thats IF he had his spells.

Its not even a wooden leaver, its like a big concrete button that you press, "little leaver" my ass.

The fact that everythings not 100% accurate duh, moving a block in gameplay then claiming he's a class 40 ton is pathetic, lets say Cloud can grow to the size of towns now.

They only get defeated if Cloud slashes them with his first tsurugi, one slash by that would decapitate a sarafan as well, the creatures would literally blitz a sarafan and knock there weapons out of their hands and rip them apart.

.. some dark materia? No such thing, the SHM don't have any materia until they took it from Cloud, they didn't cast anything as you can see, there was no materia, no materia glow, all you saw was a bit of negative lifestream.

Uhh Sephiroth doesn't have blood? He's entirely made up of those Jenova cells in the box. Sounded like you were trying to state "Kain can TK small things, he can even TK cells apart" like he would be able to TK molecules or rip out the infused Jenova cells from Clouds body.

But anyway, Kain can TK some liquid, big deal.

.. Sephiroth can TK destructive energy, TK'ing liquid isn't a feat, nor is TK'ing little objects.

rofl i've already shown you Holy many times before but i know about your memory issue so i'll show you again
4:55
YouTube video

haha, LOK character are pretty weak BT, barely any of them have any feats.

Spirit Death is supposed to rip out the beings soul, all that did was hurt Raziels MATERIAL body, his soul was unharmed/untouched.

Nah, i've given you tons of examples and evidence, your just being in denial everyone knows it, you can't counter so all you do is repeat yourself the same argument that i've already countered.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Yes there is an "IF" Kains entire optional dialogue is an "IF", its IF he obtains the spell he says that dialogue.

Its no different from the optional items/magic/equipment from any FF game, IF the object is acquired a dialogue is shown, if there isn't then there isn't. Nothing proves that Kain actually obtained that spell in the storyline so don't reply saying "zomg theres optional dialogue!!!"

Why can't Raziel just TK him back? His arms are free. If he used one of his spells he could put him in a position where Raziel would be unable to do anything and so Kain can reason with him, thats IF he had his spells.

Its not even a wooden leaver, its like a big concrete button that you press, "little leaver" my ass.

The fact that everythings not 100% accurate duh, moving a block in gameplay then claiming he's a class 40 ton is pathetic, lets say Cloud can grow to the size of towns now.

They only get defeated if Cloud slashes them with his first tsurugi, one slash by that would decapitate a sarafan as well, the creatures would literally blitz a sarafan and knock there weapons out of their hands and rip them apart.

.. some dark materia? No such thing, the SHM don't have any materia until they took it from Cloud, they didn't cast anything as you can see, there was no materia, no materia glow, all you saw was a bit of negative lifestream.

Uhh Sephiroth doesn't have blood? He's entirely made up of those Jenova cells in the box. Sounded like you were trying to state "Kain can TK small things, he can even TK cells apart" like he would be able to TK molecules or rip out the infused Jenova cells from Clouds body.

But anyway, Kain can TK some liquid, big deal.

.. Sephiroth can TK destructive energy, TK'ing liquid isn't a feat, nor is TK'ing little objects.

rofl i've already shown you Holy many times before but i know about your memory issue so i'll show you again
4:55
YouTube video

haha, LOK character are pretty weak BT, barely any of them have any feats.

Spirit Death is supposed to rip out the beings soul, all that did was hurt Raziels MATERIAL body, his soul was unharmed/untouched.

Nah, i've given you tons of examples and evidence, your just being in denial everyone knows it, you can't counter so all you do is repeat yourself the same argument that i've already countered.

No your using gameplay again, what the player does is irrelvent.

Show me a FF dialogue for some random materia please...

No he could use TK shackles, your arms cant move.

Half the things Kain shoots with Energy if youve played the game is tiny little things the likes of which the energy would destroy. But thats not the point, your once agian using gameplay and players choices.

WHy would we say that when weve seen canon info showing that Cloud cannot?

Blitz a Sarafan? ha, they would jump on him and some of the Sarafan are nearly as large, the Sarafan glyph knights are prob about as big as those shadow demons, covered in armor, I would be surprised if they could even pierce sarafan armour before just getting impaled or blasted with magic.

my point stands the same.

yeh exactley, blood cells, Jenova cells, their both cells, Kain decimates Sephiroths body with his advanced TK.

Sephiroth can TK energy without any knowlagable weight, and besides its not TK, its willpower, we dont actually know hwo that works so its nothing much of a feat, if it was TK we wouldnt know the weight or actual frictional push of Holy.

yh but I dont remember you showing me Holy when Sephiroth stops it.

Most of them would defeat FF7 with ease, Elder God would do it the fastest but most of the sorcers would transform midguard, most of the landscape like they did to Dark Eden I showed you earlier, into mutants and deformed freaks.

It was ripped out Terry, what do you think Raziel is after his material body is destroyed? a soul in the underworld just like the Spirit death does..thus...it does a similiar effect.

everyone knows you use gameplay and nonsense to bakc up your arguments as you flail your arms around, and whos everyone anyway? lol....Leon? .....lmao..no youve not countered any of my arguments, youve simply also repeated yourself, just as ime having to, its the same, only thing is your using gameplay and seem to think players influence canon lol...

Originally posted by Burning thought
No your using gameplay again, what the player does is irrelvent.

Show me a FF dialogue for some random materia please...

No he could use TK shackles, your arms cant move.

Half the things Kain shoots with Energy if youve played the game is tiny little things the likes of which the energy would destroy. But thats not the point, your once agian using gameplay and players choices.

WHy would we say that when weve seen canon info showing that Cloud cannot?

Blitz a Sarafan? ha, they would jump on him and some of the Sarafan are nearly as large, the Sarafan glyph knights are prob about as big as those shadow demons, covered in armor, I would be surprised if they could even pierce sarafan armour before just getting impaled or blasted with magic.

my point stands the same.

yeh exactley, blood cells, Jenova cells, their both cells, Kain decimates Sephiroths body with his advanced TK.

Sephiroth can TK energy without any knowlagable weight, and besides its not TK, its willpower, we dont actually know hwo that works so its nothing much of a feat, if it was TK we wouldnt know the weight or actual frictional push of Holy.

yh but I dont remember you showing me Holy when Sephiroth stops it.

Most of them would defeat FF7 with ease, Elder God would do it the fastest but most of the sorcers would transform midguard, most of the landscape like they did to Dark Eden I showed you earlier, into mutants and deformed freaks.

It was ripped out Terry, what do you think Raziel is after his material body is destroyed? a soul in the underworld just like the Spirit death does..thus...it does a similiar effect.

everyone knows you use gameplay and nonsense to bakc up your arguments as you flail your arms around, and whos everyone anyway? lol....Leon? .....lmao..no youve not countered any of my arguments, youve simply also repeated yourself, just as ime having to, its the same, only thing is your using gameplay and seem to think players influence canon lol...

Its OPTIONAL, meaning if the player had the decision to do something, so did Kain, we just don't know what Kain chose to do, just like we don't know if Cloud went and gained any of the otional items or not, but everything suggests that Kain did NOT, stop repeating argument i've already countered BT, its getting irritating.

wtf? I've already given you dialogue for KOTR, and Master Materia about 5 times now.

Show me it so that the person cannot move his arms, from what i've seen, he can only shackle like an opponents neck.

And you're using plain assumption, i'd rather use the storyline then your assumption, if in the game, kain needed energy bolt to reach the switch, then he probably used eneergy bolt to reach the switch period.

And wheres the "canon info" saying that Cloud cannot? And wheres the "canon info" saying Raziel can lift 40 tons?

They would blitz them, maul them, pick them up like a doll, their weapons would probably drop, and then proceed to eat them. The saraphan kngihts are slow as hell.

Your point was just countered. SHM don't have materia, you don't see any materia cast, but you do see negative lifestream (which is magic), use some logic here.

Kain can TK Blood as liquid, he cannot TK cell by cell, stop trying to amp him up, Jenova cells not liquid, they infuse into a SOLDIERs body, Kain cannot remove cells that are infused to a body.

The energy released by an explosion has no "knowledgable weight" either, does that mean its easy to hold? No.

TK and Willpower is stopping things with your mind, the only difference is Sephiroth can do many things with his willpower, like will himself back to life, etc.

Because its not shown, its said.

Elder God has no battle feats, the only thing he has is that he's invisible, if he was visible hell, he'd get a curbstomping, by Chaos, Sephiroth, the WEAPONs, Minerva, etc.

Sephiroth would destroy the sorcerers with a gesture.

Raziel is in the spectoral realm, in which hes switches back and forth all the time, Raziel gets damaged by "lightning" thus he slips into the spectral realm.

And you're using assumptions with no evidence, you cannot prove Kain has spirit death.

No this is how it would go, you would say "optional is just the players choice, gameplay!!" then i'd counter with, if the player has that optional choice, then the character does to, we just don't know what Kain chooses to do, and i would give you evidence and examples.

Then you would go back and repeat "optional is just players choice!!"

Its funny.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Its OPTIONAL, meaning if the player had the decision to do something, so did Kain, we just don't know what Kain chose to do, just like we don't know if Cloud went and gained any of the otional items or not, but everything suggests that Kain did NOT, stop repeating argument i've already countered BT, its getting irritating.

wtf? I've already given you dialogue for KOTR, and Master Materia about 5 times now.

Show me it so that the person cannot move his arms, from what i've seen, he can only shackle like an opponents neck.

And you're using plain assumption, i'd rather use the storyline then your assumption, if in the game, kain needed energy bolt to reach the switch, then he probably used eneergy bolt to reach the switch period.

And wheres the "canon info" saying that Cloud cannot? And wheres the "canon info" saying Raziel can lift 40 tons?

They would blitz them, maul them, pick them up like a doll, their weapons would probably drop, and then proceed to eat them. The saraphan kngihts are slow as hell.

Your point was just countered. SHM don't have materia, you don't see any materia cast, but you do see negative lifestream (which is magic), use some logic here.

Kain can TK Blood as [b]liquid, he cannot TK cell by cell, stop trying to amp him up, Jenova cells not liquid, they infuse into a SOLDIERs body, Kain cannot remove cells that are infused to a body.

The energy released by an explosion has no "knowledgable weight" either, does that mean its easy to hold? No.

TK and Willpower is stopping things with your mind, the only difference is Sephiroth can do many things with his willpower, like will himself back to life, etc.

Because its not shown, its said.

Elder God has no battle feats, the only thing he has is that he's invisible, if he was visible hell, he'd get a curbstomping, by Chaos, Sephiroth, the WEAPONs, Minerva, etc.

Sephiroth would destroy the sorcerers with a gesture.

Raziel is in the spectoral realm, in which hes switches back and forth all the time, Raziel gets damaged by "lightning" thus he slips into the spectral realm.

And you're using assumptions with no evidence, you cannot prove Kain has spirit death.

No this is how it would go, you would say "optional is just the players choice, gameplay!!" then i'd counter with, if the player has that optional choice, then the character does to, we just don't know what Kain chooses to do, and i would give you evidence and examples.

Then you would go back and repeat "optional is just players choice!!"

Its funny. [/B]

No that doesnt ring true at all, like i said earlier in the argument what happens in gameplay did not necesserily happen in the real game, the fact there are 5 buildings, one of which has a floating card in it that gives the player a spell doesnt mean thats what Kains choices are at all, thats all gameplay for the player ,the only canon bits that we know Kains story revolves around is the parts where he speaks/makes himself part of that area, but like I said before, your using too much gameplay and running about with player notions, stop repeating your already dead gameplay argument...its getting irritating.

No youve not, youve given me an old man mentioning barely Master materia, you didnt give me dialogue that describes/speaks about the materia from the worlds point of view like Kain does, thus, making it canon.

No but you see your using assumption as well, your assuming that in-game is the way it happens when gameplay is uncanon completly so where the hell is the storyline your using? now you think gameplay is storyline? holy cow....

erm maybe every other video clip including a film, some know it as AC, ring any bells? was Cloud skyscraper sized? no....

Blitz? their not even that fast so dont even joke, pick them up like a doll? show me one picking up something heavy please... I think the stupid things will just run at the Knight and hell just lay down his pike the way you would with a horse and impale it, and thats a lone knight, agroup of them using long range weapons and magic would decimate the sad thing.

Replace "logic" with fanboy assumptions of "zomg FF is so great!!" and we may be getting somewhere, there is zero evidence they even cast that then and there, it oculd have taken them 2 days prior for all you know to cast taht spell as an guardian spirit to protect them, or w/e, you dont know the implication behind them so dont start walbling off about "omg instant cast summonz!"

Blood as a liquid? and whats liquid smart one? many little cells massively spaced apart and continually moving, to move the liquid you would need control over the cells,also can you prove that all Sephiroth is, is 100% cells?

The average weight of an explosion is measured in Mega tonnes of TNT force...so yeh it does have a weight of its explosion smart one...

no TK is physical force with your mind, thus "kinetic" part of it, the willpower is unkown.

oh i see, what a terrible shame, okie show me what it says and can you show me Holy before Sephiroth stops it? form what ive seen it looks like Holy is not even moving the way it does in the final scene.

Curbstomping? please explain how? hes the size of a continenent, basically a Midguard> sized being that can instantly regerate AND MULTIPLY its limbs....I dont think these guys would survive a second, let alone their planet.

A gesture? hes never done that before lmao, you mean with a gesture Mortainious would rip out his soul and leave him for dead or Azimoth would dimentional teleport him or the mentalist would batter him with TK.

The spectoral realm is te underworld, and his body is his soul, thus....his soul is being ripped out and dumped in the underworld just like spirit death does.

Kain can prove he has it by saying it....

Or i could simply change that around to:

No this is how it would go, you would say "zomg players control canon!!" then i'd counter with, if the optonal choices and gampelay are rmoved, then we are left with the canon in-universe information, we know what Kain chooses to do and thats gain the spell as he tells us he gains it, and i would give you evidence and examples.

Then you would go back and repeat "zomg but its player who controls kains destiny!!"

Its funny.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No that doesnt ring true at all, like i said earlier in the argument what happens in gameplay did not necesserily happen in the real game, the fact there are 5 buildings, one of which has a floating card in it that gives the player a spell doesnt mean thats what Kains choices are at all, thats all gameplay for the player ,the only canon bits that we know Kains story revolves around is the parts where he speaks/makes himself part of that area, but like I said before, your using too much gameplay and running about with player notions, stop repeating your already dead gameplay argument...its getting irritating.

No youve not, youve given me an old man [b]mentioning barely Master materia, you didnt give me dialogue that describes/speaks about the materia from the worlds point of view like Kain does, thus, making it canon.

No but you see your using assumption as well, your assuming that in-game is the way it happens when gameplay is uncanon completly so where the hell is the storyline your using? now you think gameplay is storyline? holy cow....

erm maybe every other video clip including a film, some know it as AC, ring any bells? was Cloud skyscraper sized? no....

Blitz? their not even that fast so dont even joke, pick them up like a doll? show me one picking up something heavy please... I think the stupid things will just run at the Knight and hell just lay down his pike the way you would with a horse and impale it, and thats a lone knight, agroup of them using long range weapons and magic would decimate the sad thing.

Replace "logic" with fanboy assumptions of "zomg FF is so great!!" and we may be getting somewhere, there is zero evidence they even cast that then and there, it oculd have taken them 2 days prior for all you know to cast taht spell as an guardian spirit to protect them, or w/e, you dont know the implication behind them so dont start walbling off about "omg instant cast summonz!"

Blood as a liquid? and whats liquid smart one? many little cells massively spaced apart and continually moving, to move the liquid you would need control over the cells,also can you prove that all Sephiroth is, is 100% cells?

The average weight of an explosion is measured in Mega tonnes of TNT force...so yeh it does have a weight of its explosion smart one...

no TK is physical force with your mind, thus "kinetic" part of it, the willpower is unkown.

oh i see, what a terrible shame, okie show me what it says and can you show me Holy before Sephiroth stops it? form what ive seen it looks like Holy is not even moving the way it does in the final scene.

Curbstomping? please explain how? hes the size of a continenent, basically a Midguard> sized being that can instantly regerate AND MULTIPLY its limbs....I dont think these guys would survive a second, let alone their planet.

A gesture? hes never done that before lmao, you mean with a gesture Mortainious would rip out his soul and leave him for dead or Azimoth would dimentional teleport him or the mentalist would batter him with TK.

The spectoral realm is te underworld, and his body is his soul, thus....his soul is being ripped out and dumped in the underworld just like spirit death does.

Kain can prove he has it by saying it....

Or i could simply change that around to:

No this is how it would go, you would say "zomg players control canon!!" then i'd counter with, if the optonal choices and gampelay are rmoved, then we are left with the canon in-universe information, we know what Kain chooses to do and thats gain the spell as he tells us he gains it, and i would give you evidence and examples.

Then you would go back and repeat "zomg but its player who controls kains destiny!!"

Its funny. [/B]

No it is true, i've given you examples of other optional items/magic. You just simply deny it, what i said about optional is fact, its what optional means.

There is no evidence that Kain gains Spirit Death, none at all, so don't reply saying he has dialogue because that dialogue is OPTIONAL, just like any other optional item from any game.

That never happens about ANY materia in FF7, NO one describes ANYTHING in FF7, does that make every FF7 materia uncanon? NO. I've said it to you before, its just the style of FF7, LOK styles is you gain a spell, he describes it for you, that isn't the case with FF7 games, comprehend that, the kalm elder HAS master materia, he mentions Ultimate WEapon, Meteor, he is a real person, master meteria is a real materia, but Cloud just doesn't acquire it in the actual storyline, because theres no evidence he does, and theres no evidence Kains acquires Spirit Death either.

I'm using the BO storyline, the LOK storyline, NOTHING suggests Kain gets gains that optional spell in the storyline, hes never soul ripped anyone hes never even mentioned it ever. Its just as moot as optional materia, face it BT.

So? Maybe he just doesn't transform? "Why would he?"

Again, the Saraphan grunts are slow as hell, the creeps are about the size of Cloud and his big motorbike, they maul through people like nothing, they would bulldoze through those saraphan guys, they're faster, stronger, and more agile.

Wtf? You see them getting casted then and there, use your brain BT, its not like they casted it an hour ago and told it "ok in 1 hour, come out of the ground"

ROFL theres a difference between TK'ing BLOOD, and being able to TK cells apart, genius. But since your BT Kain just gained a new powerup, zomg Kain can rip cells apart, and unfuse cells that have been infused to peoploe, maybe tommorow he'll beable to rip the DNA genes out of people with his Uber TK!

All Sephiroth is in Advent Children is the cells in that box, Kadaj was a "Spirit Body" entirely made up of the NL, when Kadaj drank the cells, Seprhitoh transformed to his original form of Sephiroth, the NL was life, the cells was Sephiroth.

WTf? Trinitrotoluene force? Do you even know what trinitrotoluene is? How can measure a substance's force? An explosion is an output of ENERGY force, same thing as Holy.

And Willpower can do the same thing, stopping physical things with your mind.

Holy isn't shown, Aeris summons it before she died, then afterwards Sephiroth stops it. If Sephiroth didn't stop it Holy would've went and destroyed Meteor before it even came close to the planet.

"Even the slightest hesitance may have meant that her prayers wouldn't reach the Planet. But she done it. The requirements were fulfilled before Sephiroth struck her, after realizing her intentions. She accepted the death that she had felt long ago as the sword pierced through her. She looked at peace."

Afterwards in the novel

"The Holy she had summoned was being suppressed"

Proof that Aeris summoned Holy, then Sephiroth was able to supress it.

.. Kain defeated it by stabbing it in the eye. Elder God isn't impressive BT.

Uh no he wouldn't, this is Sephiroth, not some weak LOK character, not even the planet can take Sephiroths soul, not even dying would take Sephiroths soul.

The plot guide even says "With his material body severely damaged by Kain's lighting and being hit by the Soul Reaver, Raziel slips into the Spectral Realm."

If all the optional diaogues are removed then all you would have is the storyline, in which Kain does NOT get spirit death, or ever use it.

Now before you say "ZOMG NO ALL THE OPTIONAL DIALOGUE WOULD BE INCLUDED TO!" thats incorrect, because if all the optional dialogue was included in FF7, then Cloud would have every single materia in the game, in which HE DOESN'T.

So no thats wrong.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No it is true, i've given you examples of other optional items/magic. You just simply deny it, what i said about optional is fact, its what optional means.

There is no evidence that Kain gains Spirit Death, none at all, so don't reply saying he has dialogue because that dialogue is OPTIONAL, just like any other optional item from any game.

That never happens about ANY materia in FF7, NO one describes ANYTHING in FF7, does that make every FF7 materia uncanon? NO. I've said it to you before, its just the style of FF7, LOK styles is you gain a spell, he describes it for you, that isn't the case with FF7 games, comprehend that, the kalm elder HAS master materia, he mentions Ultimate WEapon, Meteor, he is a real person, master meteria is a real materia, but Cloud just doesn't acquire it in the actual storyline, because theres no evidence he does, and theres no evidence Kains acquires Spirit Death either.

I'm using the BO storyline, the LOK storyline, NOTHING suggests Kain gets gains that optional spell in the storyline, hes never soul ripped anyone hes never even mentioned it ever. Its just as moot as optional materia, face it BT.

So? Maybe he just doesn't transform? "Why would he?"

Again, the Saraphan grunts are slow as hell, the creeps are about the size of Cloud and his big motorbike, they maul through people like nothing, they would bulldoze through those saraphan guys, they're faster, stronger, and more agile.

Wtf? You see them getting casted then and there, use your brain BT, its not like they casted it an hour ago and told it "ok in 1 hour, come out of the ground"

ROFL theres a difference between TK'ing BLOOD, and being able to TK cells apart, genius. But since your BT Kain just gained a new powerup, zomg Kain can rip cells apart, and unfuse cells that have been infused to peoploe, maybe tommorow he'll beable to rip the DNA genes out of people with his Uber TK!

All Sephiroth is in Advent Children is the cells in that box, Kadaj was a "Spirit Body" entirely made up of the NL, when Kadaj drank the cells, Seprhitoh transformed to his original form of Sephiroth, the NL was life, the cells was Sephiroth.

WTf? Trinitrotoluene force? Do you even know what trinitrotoluene is? How can measure a substance's force? An explosion is an output of ENERGY force, same thing as Holy.

And Willpower can do the same thing, stopping physical things with your mind.

Holy isn't shown, Aeris summons it before she died, then afterwards Sephiroth stops it. If Sephiroth didn't stop it Holy would've went and destroyed Meteor before it even came close to the planet.

"Even the slightest hesitance may have meant that her prayers wouldn't reach the Planet. But she done it. The requirements were fulfilled before Sephiroth struck her, after realizing her intentions. She accepted the death that she had felt long ago as the sword pierced through her. She looked at peace."

Afterwards in the novel

"The Holy she had summoned was being suppressed"

Proof that Aeris summoned Holy, then Sephiroth was able to supress it.

.. Kain defeated it by stabbing it in the eye. Elder God isn't impressive BT.

Uh no he wouldn't, this is Sephiroth, not some weak LOK character, not even the planet can take Sephiroths soul, not even dying would take Sephiroths soul.

The plot guide even says "With his material body severely damaged by Kain's lighting and being hit by the Soul Reaver, Raziel slips into the Spectral Realm."

If all the optional diaogues are removed then all you would have is the storyline, in which Kain does NOT get spirit death, or ever use it.

Now before you say "ZOMG NO ALL THE OPTIONAL DIALOGUE WOULD BE INCLUDED TO!" thats incorrect, because if all the optional dialogue was included in FF7, then Cloud would have every single materia in the game, in which HE DOESN'T.

So no thats wrong.

no thats what your "saying" it means, your givng me examples of things being mentioned, not made part of the story, optional is something like an option for a player, the option is only relvent to the player since we know Kain doesnt really have an option when the developers have already written his storyline.

HIs dialogue IS evidence, are you saying we should ignore everything characters say? And no, the optional part is irrelvent,its optional for the player, but it excists there as what happens to Kain, as I have to keep ramming into your head, the option is the players option, not kains, since nowhere in the story or canon does kain say "i had the option" etc etc, infact in the gameplay there is little floaing cards, its unlikely kain gained spells from floaoting cardsi in the real world of LOK....

As soon as you said "that never happens" there goes your "ive given you evidence of other games with dialogue before" out of the window doesnt it? showing how weak a debator you actually are, as soon as you say that, its obvious those materia are all uncanon, they have no roots with the main storyline, thus even if materia in general is canon as you say, those materia individually are not.

NO because these spells have Kain himself telling us its part of the world, the optional part is players only. gameplay only....i.e irrelvent.

Transform, so heres your assumptions so far:

-Cloud is skysraper sized because of a player interface option in gameplay
-he can apprently transform to this size regardless of whats said in canon
-and whats more, lets for a millionth of a second take some Terry gameplay love into account and make it canon, he WOULD transform skyscraper sized if he could many times. He coudl do it to compeltly pummel Sin bahumaht, destroy most of the weapons with his pure size along etc.

no i asked you to show me them mauling through more than just civilians, not give me your own loving memories of them as you watched AC with joy, show me their strength please. otherwise Sarafan knights deal with them just the way they do vampires, impale, magic, rinse repeat.

You dont see them getting cast at all Terry..not at all, the brothers dont even do anything, as i said, you dont know they were cast then and there, it could be a number of things including a protection aura that is in effect for a time period and summons a shadow demon etc etc. your the one assuming they instantly cast it with their uber powerz!

na hes never ripped DNA genes, their even smalelr than cells, blood cells/Jenova cells etc, whats funny is now your just blindly denying things and furthermore whats actually hilarious is you took a big moment to mock kain beibg able to TK bloodin the first place before I smashed you on your ass.

Jenova head was in the box and her blood fluid was trickling out into kadaj, I dont remember him opening his mouth to drink them and none of this points to Sephiroth being all cells for definite, it could just have made a transformation from Kadaj flesh and blood to Sephiroths through the cells.

I said TNT tonnage, we know the blast power of a bomb is in mega tonnes when you use nukes at least, so we know its blast, Holy which isnt an explosion, its just a small wave compring to a large wide nuclear explosion for instance and the wave is not force, its energy which makes another diffrence with an explosion since you cannot see force, only its effects.

So for all you know, (another Terry assumtion lmao) Holy was not moving fast then, perhaps Holy asnt barely moving at all, perhaps it was just arriving like summons usually do and he stopped it before it built any pwoer whatsoever, it looks small and weak in the scene where Holy is beneath sephiroth and hes torturing the team with willpower.

KAIN defeated it, KAIN with his empowered sword and increased power, Sephiroth nor FF have anything on the level of the Reaver, also we know EG was defeated, but stabbing it in the eye? thats a gameplay mechanic.....since thats only seen in gameplay anyway, the fact as I said before EG has hundreds of these eyes across a continent sized being, it didnt kill him either, Kain just escaped and without pain in his voice Elder God yelled after him...none of FF have what it takes to see EG and if they could, what would they do? slice him up tentacle by tenctacle and uber light speed while Sephiorh does his Living Tribunal powered gestures? lol, in Terries FF most likely.

This is sephiroth, the uberest there ever was....and not even the planet? so? the underworld stream powered by the Elder God himself cannot take vampire souls either but Raziel, a small angel of death can, you need to understand that the planet not being able to do it means nothing, Mortanious could do it in an instnat as could most of LOK sorcerers mess up Sephiroth, LOK would crush the FF7 unvierse, and thats probably Kain alone that could defeat most of the main characters with ease.

Thats after, ime talking about when hes using the sword during the gameplay. That looks similiar to spirit death. But it doesnt matter what it is, its a spell that Kain uses after BO1 and BO2, if its lightning then thats another canon spell you cant deny with your gameplay loving logic.

The Dialogue would be included because its to do with the unvierse, not gameplay lol, now your getting confused agian, Kains dialogue is in-universe, i.e, its him from a storyline persepctive tlaking about the LOK unvierse, not a gameplay mechanic like the Option is.

Youe already crushed your own argument earlier by saying there is no descirption of FF materia, your failing so badly is hilarious.

Yes you are wrong.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no thats what your "saying" it means, your givng me examples of things being mentioned, not made part of the story, optional is something like an option for a player, the option is only relvent to the player since we know Kain doesnt really have an option when the developers have already written his storyline.

HIs dialogue [b]IS evidence, are you saying we should ignore everything characters say? And no, the optional part is irrelvent,its optional for the player, but it excists there as what happens to Kain, as I have to keep ramming into your head, the option is the players option, not kains, since nowhere in the story or canon does kain say "i had the option" etc etc, infact in the gameplay there is little floaing cards, its unlikely kain gained spells from floaoting cardsi in the real world of LOK....

As soon as you said "that never happens" there goes your "ive given you evidence of other games with dialogue before" out of the window doesnt it? showing how weak a debator you actually are, as soon as you say that, its obvious those materia are all uncanon, they have no roots with the main storyline, thus even if materia in general is canon as you say, those materia individually are not.

NO because these spells have Kain himself telling us its part of the world, the optional part is players only. gameplay only....i.e irrelvent.

Transform, so heres your assumptions so far:

-Cloud is skysraper sized because of a player interface option in gameplay
-he can apprently transform to this size regardless of whats said in canon
-and whats more, lets for a millionth of a second take some Terry gameplay love into account and make it canon, he WOULD transform skyscraper sized if he could many times. He coudl do it to compeltly pummel Sin bahumaht, destroy most of the weapons with his pure size along etc.

no i asked you to show me them mauling through more than just civilians, not give me your own loving memories of them as you watched AC with joy, show me their strength please. otherwise Sarafan knights deal with them just the way they do vampires, impale, magic, rinse repeat.

You dont see them getting cast at all Terry..not at all, the brothers dont even do anything, as i said, you dont know they were cast then and there, it could be a number of things including a protection aura that is in effect for a time period and summons a shadow demon etc etc. your the one assuming they instantly cast it with their uber powerz!

na hes never ripped DNA genes, their even smalelr than cells, blood cells/Jenova cells etc, whats funny is now your just blindly denying things and furthermore whats actually hilarious is you took a big moment to mock kain beibg able to TK bloodin the first place before I smashed you on your ass.

Jenova head was in the box and her blood fluid was trickling out into kadaj, I dont remember him opening his mouth to drink them and none of this points to Sephiroth being all cells for definite, it could just have made a transformation from Kadaj flesh and blood to Sephiroths through the cells.

I said TNT tonnage, we know the blast power of a bomb is in mega tonnes when you use nukes at least, so we know its blast, Holy which isnt an explosion, its just a small wave compring to a large wide nuclear explosion for instance and the wave is not force, its energy which makes another diffrence with an explosion since you cannot see force, only its effects.

So for all you know, (another Terry assumtion lmao) Holy was not moving fast then, perhaps Holy asnt barely moving at all, perhaps it was just arriving like summons usually do and he stopped it before it built any pwoer whatsoever, it looks small and weak in the scene where Holy is beneath sephiroth and hes torturing the team with willpower.

KAIN defeated it, KAIN with his empowered sword and increased power, Sephiroth nor FF have anything on the level of the Reaver, also we know EG was defeated, but stabbing it in the eye? thats a gameplay mechanic.....since thats only seen in gameplay anyway, the fact as I said before EG has hundreds of these eyes across a continent sized being, it didnt kill him either, Kain just escaped and without pain in his voice Elder God yelled after him...none of FF have what it takes to see EG and if they could, what would they do? slice him up tentacle by tenctacle and uber light speed while Sephiorh does his Living Tribunal powered gestures? lol, in Terries FF most likely.

This is sephiroth, the uberest there ever was....and not even the planet? so? the underworld stream powered by the Elder God himself cannot take vampire souls either but Raziel, a small angel of death can, you need to understand that the planet not being able to do it means nothing, Mortanious could do it in an instnat as could most of LOK sorcerers mess up Sephiroth, LOK would crush the FF7 unvierse, and thats probably Kain alone that could defeat most of the main characters with ease.

Thats after, ime talking about when hes using the sword during the gameplay. That looks similiar to spirit death. But it doesnt matter what it is, its a spell that Kain uses after BO1 and BO2, if its lightning then thats another canon spell you cant deny with your gameplay loving logic.

The Dialogue would be included because its to do with the unvierse, not gameplay lol, now your getting confused agian, Kains dialogue is in-universe, i.e, its him from a storyline persepctive tlaking about the LOK unvierse, not a gameplay mechanic like the Option is.

Youe already crushed your own argument earlier by saying there is no descirption of FF materia, your failing so badly is hilarious.

Yes you are wrong. [/B]

LOL Spirit Death is NOT part of the story, stop trying to claim it is, its just an optional spell like any other optional item, the developers never written Spirit Death IN the storyline, why do you think its "optional"? And has an "optional" dialogue?

Same reason that KOTR isn't in the story, its OPTIONAL.

THE DIALOGUE ISN'T STORY DIALOGUE LOL, its just an optional description you get IF the optional spell is gained! It doesn't have a single thing to do with the story, kain has never used it in the story. You're just repeating yourself rofl

No where in the actual story does Kain get this spell, the spell exists in the game but not in the STORY, thats why its just a gameplay spell, its just a bonus/optional spell just like KOTR and Master Materia. You're just trying way too hard BT, give it up, you have zero evidence Kain has it.

Its not gameplay, its character decision. Did Kain get the bonus spell? No, theres no evidence he did. He's never done it before in the storyline, if he DID get it, he would say that dialogue, but nothing soggests he did.

No i can just use the stupid reasoning you used for Kain not using his spells, PIS, see how you can argue for nonsense? But the thing is, people (besides you) have logic and reasoning to judge things.

*Uses BT reasoning* - Show me Saraphans beating a lion, if you don't show me that, then theres no reason to assume he can beat a shadow creep.

ROFL a "protection aura"? WTF is that? Use your common sense, they have limited power of the negative lifestream so they used that obviously. You even see it with your eyes on screen, No they didn't cast it an hour ago and coincidently they timed it so that they unleashed right at that moment thats just your ridiculous try-hard to downplay junk. I'm not "assuming" i'm using common sense and logic, something you should try doing.

And Kain has never split cells apart before, not can you even claim thats TK, its probably just a vampire-blood-suck ability, no i mocked your stupid KAIN CAN TK CELLS APART lol thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, you should go try saying that to other people and see how much they laugh at you.

Jenova is Sephiroth, he absorbed the cells, once the cells became apart of the spirit body(which is just NL), Sephiroth reformed himself, therefore he is no human at all.

A small wave? LOL its probably bigger then any nuclear explosion, and more deadly as well, it IS force. Its energy, energy = force. Holy is a powerful force.

It looks "small and weak" because Sephiroth supressed it, after Sephiroth was out of the picture it shot out towards Meteor in SECONDS, thats speed.

Kain defeated it by attacking its eye, and obviously your going to excuse it and be like "Noo ObvIouZLY IN THE REAL LOK, Kain DEFEATED IT BY USING 60 oF HIS UBER SPELLZ!!' He was brought down by being stabbed in the eye LOL.

Kain can't do shit, he has no feats except your imaginary ones, Raziel can't take a perfectly fine beings soul, he has to weaken the body first. Like i said, Mortanious can do it to a LOK character (since they don't even have any feats) but obviousl he won't be able to do it to a higher tier character like Sephiroth who actually has feats, and no Kain wouldn't mess anyone up, come on, its featless Kain, get real here.

Its the same move? They're both just lightning, and again i never said ALL of the optional spells are uncanon, i said theres no reason to assume he obtained them without proof (spirit death).

Its just a description, it has nothing to do with the STORY, its no different from master materia.

And does that make every FF single materia uncanon? No,dur

Reply when you gain some evidence he has spirit death mm k? No no, i don't want to hear some optional dialogue, i want to here either storyline dialogue, or evidence he has it. Remember, no optional dialogue

Originally posted by Terryc250
LOL Spirit Death is NOT part of the story, stop trying to claim it is, its just an optional spell like any other optional item, the developers never written Spirit Death IN the storyline, why do you think its "optional"? And has an "optional" dialogue?

Same reason that KOTR isn't in the story, its OPTIONAL.

THE DIALOGUE ISN'T STORY DIALOGUE LOL, its just an optional description you get IF the optional spell is gained! It doesn't have a single thing to do with the story, kain has never used it in the story. You're just repeating yourself rofl

No where in the actual story does Kain get this spell, the spell exists in the game but not in the STORY, thats why its just a gameplay spell, its just a bonus/optional spell just like KOTR and Master Materia. You're just trying way too hard BT, give it up, you have zero evidence Kain has it.

Its not gameplay, its character decision. Did Kain get the bonus spell? No, theres no evidence he did. He's never done it before in the storyline, if he DID get it, he would say that dialogue, but nothing soggests he did.

No i can just use the stupid reasoning you used for Kain not using his spells, PIS, see how you can argue for nonsense? But the thing is, people (besides you) have logic and reasoning to judge things.

*Uses BT reasoning* - Show me Saraphans beating a lion, if you don't show me that, then theres no reason to assume he can beat a shadow creep.

ROFL a "protection aura"? WTF is that? Use your common sense, they have limited power of the negative lifestream so they used that obviously. You even see it with your eyes on screen, No they didn't cast it an hour ago and coincidently they timed it so that they unleashed right at that moment thats just your ridiculous try-hard to downplay junk. I'm not "assuming" i'm using common sense and logic, something you should try doing.

And Kain has never split cells apart before, not can you even claim thats TK, its probably just a vampire-blood-suck ability, no i mocked your stupid KAIN CAN TK CELLS APART lol thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, you should go try saying that to other people and see how much they laugh at you.

Jenova is Sephiroth, he absorbed the cells, once the cells became apart of the spirit body(which is just NL), Sephiroth reformed himself, therefore he is no human at all.

A small wave? LOL its probably bigger then any nuclear explosion, and more deadly as well, it IS force. Its energy, energy = force. Holy is a powerful force.

It looks "small and weak" because Sephiroth supressed it, after Sephiroth was out of the picture it shot out towards Meteor in SECONDS, thats speed.

Kain defeated it by attacking its eye, and obviously your going to excuse it and be like "Noo ObvIouZLY IN THE REAL LOK, Kain DEFEATED IT BY USING 60 oF HIS UBER SPELLZ!!' He was brought down by being stabbed in the eye LOL.

Kain can't do shit, he has no feats except your imaginary ones, Raziel can't take a perfectly fine beings soul, he has to weaken the body first. Like i said, Mortanious can do it to a LOK character (since they don't even have any feats) but obviousl he won't be able to do it to a higher tier character like Sephiroth who actually has feats, and no Kain wouldn't mess anyone up, come on, its featless [b]Kain, get real here.

Its the same move? They're both just lightning, and again i never said ALL of the optional spells are uncanon, i said theres no reason to assume he obtained them without proof (spirit death).

Its just a description, it has nothing to do with the STORY, its no different from master materia.

And does that make every FF single materia uncanon? No,dur

Reply when you gain some evidence he has spirit death mm k? No no, i don't want to hear some optional dialogue, i want to here either storyline dialogue, or evidence he has it. Remember, no optional dialogue [/B]

Ofc its part of the story, kain himself claims he has it, the optional is gameplay/character, stop trying to claim they are canon.

No Kotr is not only optional but not even mentioned as part of the game universe, its just like a bonus powerup.

ofc its story dialogue, its Kain the character speaking of spirit death/any other spell as its part of the games universe.

Zero evidence? kain himself tells us he has it lol....youve just got gameplay and player notion to back you up which is irrelvent.

No its player decision, characters dont actually have real deicsions since the developers already have their story written, its a player decision during gameplay, thus, irrelvent.

You dont have any logic or reasoning, you have gameplay and foolery. How is cloud becoming a giant which is only seen in a player controlled gameplay scene when we have 100 other canon showings of him never doing it, never having it, infact your logic is broken entirely.

I didnt say that, I asked show me something those beasts have done that makes you think their capable of defeating or holding up a Sarafan knight in general.....your trying to escape posting any evidence as usual.

Well its basically an Aura that activates when in battle, thus summoning that shadow demon, one of many assumptions I could come up with, problem is your asusmptions are just as bad, you assume they used their infnite instant cast powerz to summon demons without doing anything...which is yet another assumption, sry Terry, but the real FF is not the same as Terries FF

no you mocked Blood TK earlier see:

Originally posted by Terryc250
Rofl show me Kain TK'ing blood cells ahahahaha, you get more and more funny with each post.

then I knocked your foolery to the floor..simple...

WHat other people? they could prob debate against me as bad as you can but I dont make fallacies like "appeal to audiance" otherwise I could prob just get Madmel to laugh at your pathetic knowledge of LOk, hell even Dark Jaxx who I belive has played LOK defiance would laugh at "kain cannot TK blood" as well as your reaction shown above lol...pathetic..infact it would be more fun beating your @ss agian and again in this debate if you brought along some of your fanboy m8s for me to crush as well, please, bring them in. Raise the flag of Sephiroth!
durw00t

He can TK cells, blood cells ive just shown you ,stop stalling and counter but you prob cannot.

Sephiroth is a human wtf you talking about, hes a SOLDIER, enhanced human, show me proof for this, actually show me some proof and dont straw man to escape showing any, I want to see the facts behind your claims of Sephiroth being 100% cells only

Bigger than any nuclear explosion? now THAT, is funny...its a wave perhaps about as wide as the section of Midgar meteor was falling on.

Show me the storyline that shows EG was defeated by having its eye slashed? no gameplay remember k thx 😄

oh I see, the typical FF fanboy logic of zomg its a uber sephiroth FF character, not anoher unvierses character! he will resist godlike powerz! sort of thing....how very sad.

but i dont assume their canon without proof, Kains no liar, hes already said he has the spells...simple

Yes it does make them all uncanon, apart from the ones made canon in the storyline, but other than that, all those materia are prob blasts the likes of which we see in AC durlaugh

Remember gmaeplay and player decisions are not canon! and Terries FF is not the same as the real FF either 🙂

so holy is weaker than a nuclear explosion now?!?!?!?!?

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeh ofc it is, a nuclear explosion would have annhilated Midguard outright, also can someone tell me why meteor is so slow?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ofc its part of the story, kain himself claims he has it, the optional is gameplay/character, stop trying to claim they are canon.

No Kotr is not only optional but not even mentioned as part of the game universe, its just like a bonus powerup.

ofc its story dialogue, its Kain the character speaking of spirit death/any other spell as its part of the games universe.

Zero evidence? kain himself tells us he has it lol....youve just got gameplay and player notion to back you up which is irrelvent.

No its player decision, characters dont actually have real deicsions since the developers already have their story written, its a player decision during gameplay, thus, irrelvent.

You dont have any logic or reasoning, you have gameplay and foolery. How is cloud becoming a giant which is only seen in a player controlled gameplay scene when we have 100 other canon showings of him never doing it, never having it, infact your logic is broken entirely.

I didnt say that, I asked show me something those beasts have done that makes you think their capable of defeating or holding up a Sarafan knight in general.....your trying to escape posting any evidence as usual.

Well its basically an Aura that activates when in battle, thus summoning that shadow demon, one of many assumptions I could come up with, problem is your asusmptions are just as bad, you assume they used their infnite instant cast powerz to summon demons without doing anything...which is yet another assumption, sry Terry, but the real FF is not the same as Terries FF

no you mocked Blood TK earlier see:

then I knocked your foolery to the floor..simple...

WHat other people? they could prob debate against me as bad as you can but I dont make fallacies like "appeal to audiance" otherwise I could prob just get Madmel to laugh at your pathetic knowledge of LOk, hell even Dark Jaxx who I belive has played LOK defiance would laugh at "kain cannot TK blood" as well as your reaction shown above lol...pathetic..infact it would be more fun beating your @ss agian and again in this debate if you brought along some of your fanboy m8s for me to crush as well, please, bring them in. Raise the flag of Sephiroth!
durw00t

He can TK cells, blood cells ive just shown you ,stop stalling and counter but you prob cannot.

Sephiroth is a human wtf you talking about, hes a SOLDIER, enhanced human, show me proof for this, [b]actually show me some proof and dont straw man to escape showing any, I want to see the facts behind your claims of Sephiroth being 100% cells only

Bigger than any nuclear explosion? now THAT, is funny...its a wave perhaps about as wide as the section of Midgar meteor was falling on.

Show me the storyline that shows EG was defeated by having its eye slashed? no gameplay remember k thx 😄

oh I see, the typical FF fanboy logic of zomg its a uber sephiroth FF character, not anoher unvierses character! he will resist godlike powerz! sort of thing....how very sad.

but i dont assume their canon without proof, Kains no liar, hes already said he has the spells...simple

Yes it does make them all uncanon, apart from the ones made canon in the storyline, but other than that, all those materia are prob blasts the likes of which we see in AC durlaugh

Remember gmaeplay and player decisions are not canon! and Terries FF is not the same as the real FF either 🙂 [/B]

No its not part of the story, if its part of the story, then show me Kain using it in the story? Oh you can't? Then stop lying. Its an OPTIONAL BONUS SPELL The only dialogue he has for it is OPTIONAL Dialogue, NOTHIGN suggests that he actually gains that optional bonus spell in the actual PLOT, does he ever soup rip anyone? No. Can he? No.

BT: "YES HE CAN"

Then SHOW ME EVIDENCE.

You claiming he has Spirit Death is the same as me claiming Cloud has master materia and KOTR.

Both are moot, there is zero proof they gained it in the storyline.

The dialogue for Spirit Death is OPTIONAL, just as the dialogue for KOTR or Master Materia is.

Now stop repeating the "ZOMG ITS CANON BECAUSE KAIN SAYS THE OPTIONAL DIALOGUE!!"

Yes thats what he WOULD say IF he gained it, but nothing suggests he did, just as thats what the Elder WOULD say if Cloud had the Earth Harp to offer him, but did he in the actual plot? No.

Because Cloud only did it in the in-world gameplay, which proves my point that not everything in the in-world gameplay is accurate duh.

Well then show me a Saraphan knight defeating a lion, if it can't defeat a lion then it can't defeat the beasts. Thats how ridiculous your question is. The beasts have never fought anything "heavy" just as Saraphans have never fought anything like a beast. Judging by the size of the beasts they would most likely beable to maul through the Saraphans.

Bt... use your damn common sense, i'm almost certain you have some. SHM don't have any materia, you see the negative lifestream, the negative lifestream is capable of magic, you see magic, the SHm are capable of using some of the NL, putting these together with a bit of common sense leads you to an answer. Not everything must be stated in text or speech for proof, some things are just common sense.

I mocked you claiming this first:

"yh Kain can TK small objects, like blood cells, he could prob just dump all the Jenova cells out of faggotry sephiroth for an easy win. "

First of all, Kain CANNOT dis-infuse cells out of a persons body, he can tk BLOOD yes, but he cannot "dump" out cells that are infused with a persons muscles skin, etc, like Cloud for example hes a human infused with j-cells, Kain cannot remove the j-cells out of his body, thats ridiculous.

Second of all, Sephiroth IS jenova, he's not a human infused jenova, hes no human at all, saying kain will dump the jenova cells out of sephiroth is like saying kain will dump the sephiroth cells out of sephiroth, which makes no sense.

Beating my ass? ROFL come on get real, like honestly, you're BT.. you don't "beat" anyone, people don't even bother debating against you, because they don't want to debate against your imaginary Kain, they don't even bother.

Sephiroth is a human? Uhh no he's not, don't you have ANY knowledge of FF7? The only time he was PARTLY human was in Crisis Core, he lost his body when he jumped into the lifestream, he reformed his body in FF7 (not human) in AC all he was, was the cells in the box, i've already given you evidence in AC, you just aren't reading it, or you already forgot.

Kadaj is a spirit body made of up the NL, Sephiroth is the cells in the box, Kadaj (the spirit body) absorbes the cells (sephiroth), Sephiroth regenerates his regular form. So where does being a "human" come in? Nomura even stated he doesn't sweat or get tired.

No, its about the size of a nuclear blast.
Look at Holy in an outer-space point of view, compared to the planet.

LOL gameplay > assumption, so are you going to baseless claim that Kain pulled out a billion spells on EG? Haha, if the developers made it so that EG gets defeated by getting his eye attacked, then i'd rather side with the developers then with your assumptions, thx.

No he didn't say it in the storyline, theres an optional dialogue yes, but that holds no weight, unless theres proof he actually obtained that optional bonus spell

So you're saying Cloud gains zero materia in the events of FF7? Even though you clearly see him having a chest full in AC? Rofl, keep failing BT, its really entertaining.

Now either prove he has spirit death, or concede already, don't give me that "ZOMG KAIN SAYS THE OPTIONAL DESCRIPTION OF SPIRIT DEATH, SO IT MUST BE PART OF THE STORY!!!" even though its a bonus optional spell like KOTR and Master Materia rofl.

yeh ofc it is, a nuclear explosion would have annhilated Midguard outright, also can someone tell me why meteor is so slow?

Its not, if a Meteor were to actually hit our planet it would look similar to this:

YouTube video

meteor is not slow, its only that objects of that size SEEM slow in speed. look at videos of planet's colliding, even though they are going at mach 25-50, looking from the PERSPECTIVE of the size of the entire planet, it looks like snales pace, it isnt slow at ALL.

you don know anuthing about nuclear explosions or meteors so stop trying. the largest nuclear bomb was the tsar bomba, which was 50 megatons. and it had a blast radius of about 30 kilometres. the meteor in ff-7 is around the size of a medium country. in reality, if such a meteor were to hit earth, the entire surface would be utterly destroyed and the energy released would be magnitudes greater than all the nuclear devices on earth put together. holy is FAR stronger than any NUKE!

Originally posted by Terryc250
No its not part of the story, if its part of the story, then show me Kain using it in the story? Oh you can't? Then stop lying. Its an [b]OPTIONAL BONUS SPELL The only dialogue he has for it is OPTIONAL Dialogue, NOTHIGN suggests that he actually gains that optional bonus spell in the actual PLOT, does he ever soup rip anyone? No. Can he? No.

BT: "YES HE CAN"

Then SHOW ME EVIDENCE.

You claiming he has Spirit Death is the same as me claiming Cloud has master materia and KOTR.

Both are moot, there is zero proof they gained it in the storyline.

The dialogue for Spirit Death is OPTIONAL, just as the dialogue for KOTR or Master Materia is.

Now stop repeating the "ZOMG ITS CANON BECAUSE KAIN SAYS THE OPTIONAL DIALOGUE!!"

Yes thats what he WOULD say IF he gained it, but nothing suggests he did, just as thats what the Elder WOULD say if Cloud had the Earth Harp to offer him, but did he in the actual plot? No.

Because Cloud only did it in the in-world gameplay, which proves my point that not everything in the in-world gameplay is accurate duh.

Well then show me a Saraphan knight defeating a lion, if it can't defeat a lion then it can't defeat the beasts. Thats how ridiculous your question is. The beasts have never fought anything "heavy" just as Saraphans have never fought anything like a beast. Judging by the size of the beasts they would most likely beable to maul through the Saraphans.

Bt... use your damn common sense, i'm almost certain you have some. SHM don't have any materia, you see the negative lifestream, the negative lifestream is capable of magic, you see magic, the SHm are capable of using some of the NL, putting these together with a bit of common sense leads you to an answer. Not everything must be stated in text or speech for proof, some things are just common sense.

I mocked you claiming this first:

"yh Kain can TK small objects, like blood cells, he could prob just dump all the Jenova cells out of faggotry sephiroth for an easy win. "

First of all, Kain CANNOT dis-infuse cells out of a persons body, he can tk BLOOD yes, but he cannot "dump" out cells that are infused with a persons muscles skin, etc, like Cloud for example hes a human infused with j-cells, Kain cannot remove the j-cells out of his body, thats ridiculous.

Second of all, Sephiroth IS jenova, he's not a human infused jenova, hes no human at all, saying kain will dump the jenova cells out of sephiroth is like saying kain will dump the sephiroth cells out of sephiroth, which makes no sense.

Beating my ass? ROFL come on get real, like honestly, you're BT.. you don't "beat" anyone, people don't even bother debating against you, because they don't want to debate against your imaginary Kain, they don't even bother.

Sephiroth is a human? Uhh no he's not, don't you have ANY knowledge of FF7? The only time he was PARTLY human was in Crisis Core, he lost his body when he jumped into the lifestream, he reformed his body in FF7 (not human) in AC all he was, was the cells in the box, i've already given you evidence in AC, you just aren't reading it, or you already forgot.

Kadaj is a spirit body made of up the NL, Sephiroth is the cells in the box, Kadaj (the spirit body) absorbes the cells (sephiroth), Sephiroth regenerates his regular form. So where does being a "human" come in? Nomura even stated he doesn't sweat or get tired.

No, its about the size of a nuclear blast.
Look at Holy in an outer-space point of view, compared to the planet.

LOL gameplay > assumption, so are you going to baseless claim that Kain pulled out a billion spells on EG? Haha, if the developers made it so that EG gets defeated by getting his eye attacked, then i'd rather side with the developers then with your assumptions, thx.

No he didn't say it in the storyline, theres an optional dialogue yes, but that holds no weight, unless theres proof he actually obtained that optional bonus spell

So you're saying Cloud gains zero materia in the events of FF7? Even though you clearly see him having a chest full in AC? Rofl, keep failing BT, its really entertaining.

Now either prove he has spirit death, or concede already, don't give me that "ZOMG KAIN SAYS THE OPTIONAL DESCRIPTION OF SPIRIT DEATH, SO IT MUST BE PART OF THE STORY!!!" even though its a bonus optional spell like KOTR and Master Materia rofl.

It would disintegrate Midgar if it were to attack Midgar yes.

Its not, if a Meteor were to actually hit our planet it would look similar to this:

YouTube video [/B]

He does not have to use it for it to be apart of the universe, simply he has to mention himself gaining it. The dialogue is optional to the player ,not Kain since as ive said 100 times before Kain doesnt really have an option.

Its nothing alike like ive shown before...counter the argument, you cannot show me a single FF spell with real dialogue attaching it to the universe.

The fact the player has an option does not determine canon unfortunatley for you.

thats not in-world gameplay, thats a players interface, anyone could tell yu that Terry, its augmented so the player can control Cloud around the map with ease to get to points of interest, thats the system, can you explain the reason why the developers couldnt have made smaller blocks for Raziel to push because you think hes not that strong? ofc they could have, the blocks are not controlled in stats or are they even relevent much to the playuer in their size.

No, your asking me of something random and ive not even made a claim, ime using the facts about what the Sarafan actually have, bodily strength doesnt come just from size, or are those shadow creatures stronger than Sephiroth? ofc not.....Sarafan wear heavy armour, are not that much smaller than Shadow beasts who are not that big themselves and they use magic and other abilities that make them powerful.

You wouldnt use your common sense if i brought out my evidence ofr Kain having omnipotent unregulated control over magic, death, states and the rest of the pillars. Thing is I would have evidence as well, in this instance your assuming everythng from how they cast the demons, for all you know it was a negative aura cast earlier that summons the demons since those guys dont do anything and throughout the film AC you dont see an instant cast like that agan, they need to charge to use blasts and such.

If he can move blood cells why not Jenova cells? their just cells afterall, both of them?

Youve still not shown me proof he is 100% cells, jsut another assumption so far.

Yeh and your Terry, the gameplay using wonder, ive beaten and debated with hundreds of people, if you look in my profile I trashed your argument earlier with an uproar since you made a goof, and ive trashed DS fanboys before as well, ive continually done it and ill beat you in this thread unless you disapear and dont concede like most of our debates you do so. All of this is simply a "they dont debate against me because they cannot" simply because they dont use gameplay like you do, they prob realise without using gameplay and broken logic the Kain ime using is the real one.

Obviously more than you do of LOK, Sephiroth is originally human, then he becomes SOLDIER, then the cells etc ec, all the cells seem to do is channel Sephiroth into Kadaj, nothing about him becoming 100% jenova so far, or 100% jenova cells.

oh I see, he doesnt sweat or get tired so hes no human....lmao....very good Terry, perhaps its your best argument in this thread so far...better than the rest at least, none of that points to him being 100% cells however. Perhaps hes more spirit than anything.

All ime seeing is the lifestream as it says in the image and the Meteor...wheres holy?

I didnt make any assumption, your using gameplay which is irrelvent, simple.

oh no old chap, he gains materia, but their prob all little blasts and small enhancements like I said before, the rest of the actual spells are prob just little bonus graphicsw to make it entertaining for the player, stop failing Terry.

Now either stop using your sad gameplay/character notions to hold up your dead argument or concede please. Your "zomg the player is Kain and the player makes canon!" is a load of rubbish. You cant even make a single link with Materia apart from the fact in gameplay its optional lol...other than that youve failed to provide in-unvierse dialogue linking materia with the universe in itself.

Where did you get that video? it wouldnt make sense for a meteor to move so slowly, but the fact is, meteor is ridiculously slow anyway.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
meteor is not slow, its only that objects of that size SEEM slow in speed. look at videos of planet's colliding, even though they are going at mach 25-50, looking from the PERSPECTIVE of the size of the entire planet, it looks like snales pace, it isnt slow at ALL.

you don know anuthing about nuclear explosions or meteors so stop trying. the largest nuclear bomb was the tsar bomba, which was 50 megatons. and it had a blast radius of about 30 kilometres. the meteor in ff-7 is around the size of a medium country. in reality, if such a meteor were to hit earth, the entire surface would be utterly destroyed and the energy released would be magnitudes greater than all the nuclear devices on earth put together. holy is FAR stronger than any NUKE!

I know that the gravity of Earth is going to have a meteor coming at it faster than in FF, when its right over the city its not going at mach 25-50 lmao...

A median country haha? it looks about as big as the piece of midguard you see imo.
Whats funny and where you really really fail is when you go on about meteors and nukes then you claim holy is stronger than a nuke without any evidence for Holy...hehe

funny old Leon

Originally posted by Burning thought
He does not have to use it for it to be apart of the universe, simply he has to mention himself gaining it. The dialogue is optional to the player ,not Kain since as ive said 100 times before Kain doesnt really have an option.

Its nothing alike like ive shown before...counter the argument, you cannot show me a single FF spell with real dialogue attaching it to the universe.

The fact the player has an option does not determine canon unfortunatley for you.

thats not in-world gameplay, thats a players interface, anyone could tell yu that Terry, its augmented so the player can control Cloud around the map with ease to get to points of interest, thats the system, can you explain the reason why the developers couldnt have made smaller blocks for Raziel to push because you think hes not that strong? ofc they could have, the blocks are not controlled in stats or are they even relevent much to the playuer in their size.

No, your asking me of something random and ive not even made a claim, ime using the facts about what the Sarafan actually have, bodily strength doesnt come just from size, or are those shadow creatures stronger than Sephiroth? ofc not.....Sarafan wear heavy armour, are not that much smaller than Shadow beasts who are not that big themselves and they use magic and other abilities that make them powerful.

You wouldnt use your common sense if i brought out my evidence ofr Kain having omnipotent unregulated control over magic, death, states and the rest of the pillars. Thing is I would have evidence as well, in this instance your assuming [b]everythng from how they cast the demons, for all you know it was a negative aura cast earlier that summons the demons since those guys dont do anything and throughout the film AC you dont see an instant cast like that agan, they need to charge to use blasts and such.

If he can move blood cells why not Jenova cells? their just cells afterall, both of them?

Youve still not shown me proof he is 100% cells, jsut another assumption so far.

Yeh and your Terry, the gameplay using wonder, ive beaten and debated with hundreds of people, if you look in my profile I trashed your argument earlier with an uproar since you made a goof, and ive trashed DS fanboys before as well, ive continually done it and ill beat you in this thread unless you disapear and dont concede like most of our debates you do so. All of this is simply a "they dont debate against me because they cannot" simply because they dont use gameplay like you do, they prob realise without using gameplay and broken logic the Kain ime using is the real one.

Obviously more than you do of LOK, Sephiroth is originally human, then he becomes SOLDIER, then the cells etc ec, all the cells seem to do is channel Sephiroth into Kadaj, nothing about him becoming 100% jenova so far, or 100% jenova cells.

oh I see, he doesnt sweat or get tired so hes no human....lmao....very good Terry, perhaps its your best argument in this thread so far...better than the rest at least, none of that points to him being 100% cells however. Perhaps hes more spirit than anything.

All ime seeing is the lifestream as it says in the image and the Meteor...wheres holy?

I didnt make any assumption, your using gameplay which is irrelvent, simple.

oh no old chap, he gains materia, but their prob all little blasts and small enhancements like I said before, the rest of the actual spells are prob just little bonus graphicsw to make it entertaining for the player, stop failing Terry.

Now either stop using your sad gameplay/character notions to hold up your dead argument or concede please. Your "zomg the player is Kain and the player makes canon!" is a load of rubbish. You cant even make a single link with Materia apart from the fact in gameplay its optional lol...other than that youve failed to provide in-unvierse dialogue linking materia with the universe in itself.

Where did you get that video? it wouldnt make sense for a meteor to move so slowly, but the fact is, meteor is ridiculously slow anyway. [/B]

No, the dialogue is optional period, i've explained this to you already BT, and i've given you examples, just comprehend it. That dialogue is an "IF", IF Kain obtained the spell, that is what he WOULD say, just like IF Cloud had the earth harp, that is what the elder would say, etc. Nothing suggests Kain obtained the optional spell, nothing suggests Cloud got the optional item, in the actual plot.. optional dialogue makes ZERO difference.

What are you talking about? I gave you dialogue of KOTR AND Master Materia, you just can't remember it for more then a minute, please get your memory checked because all you're doing is repeating and repeating nonsense, you're just being too stubborn to concede.

Like i've said and proven before, the character had the option, nothing suggests he chose the option to go and obtained it, unfortunately for you.

uhh no, they could've easily made the towns larger then the character, if the towns were larger then it would be even easier to navigate to the "points of interest" you can ask the developers many questions, why do he have Kain fight a couple Saraphans at a time? If hes so uber strong, they would have him fighting 100 Saraphans at a time.

WTF is a "negative aura cast"? Your talking jibberish, your just trying too hard to downplay it, it makes completely no sense.

In the FF7 world there is only 2 instances where magic can be produced, by materia(which helps aid tapping into the lifestream for magic), or directly from the lifestream itself, now this is where using your brain comes in:

Did the SHM have any materia? No. Did you see any materia being casted? No. Did you see the negative lifestream? Yes. Now by using common sense, where did the magic come from, Negative Lifestream or Materia?

Because Kain can only move BLOOD period. Do you know what infused with the cells is? It means the cells connect into a SOLDIERs body, its toally different from blood, it become a part of the body, they bond with other cells and grow. Kain wouldn't beable to rip the cells off of a SOLDIERs body, let alone Jenova/Sephiroth itself.

.... Can you not read? We have a spirit body and Jenova cells, they go together and Sephiroth reforms himself out of the cells, so what is he? Spirit + Cells that reformed a body = what? a human?

Lol you can't debate ROFL, you bring nothing new to the table and too stubborn to admit defeat when you cannot do anything but repeat nonsense, its hilarious, what i meant when i said Kain cannot TK Blood CELLS, was that he cannot dis-mantle the CELLULAR structure of a person, because you said "He'll just TK Sephiroths JENOVA cells off" which is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, its funny you finally get something to profile all from a misunderstanding HAHA, but i'll add the things you've completely understood and the most ridiculous things you've said rofl.

Sephiroth is NOT originall human, he is not a normal SOLDIER genius, you're wrong again. SOLDIERs are regular humans that were INFUSED with Jenova cells. Sephiroth was Infused with the Jenova genetics before he was even born, in his moms womb, the cells are apart of his mind as he literally is basically Jenova's son. You know jack about FF7, everytime you say something about it, its wrong in a comedic fashion.

Sephiroth was never human smart one rofl, he had part human part jenova body when he was born but he lost that body already.

Holy is that big white-ish cloud under Meteor duh, lifestream is the green lines going towards Holy.

So then tell me, how did Kain defeat EG? Because the developers obviously made it so that EG gets defeated by gettting attacked in the eye.

Or they're summons and magic, we see Cloud using a few and already seen a summon, he has a big chest full of them, obviously he gained a lot of different spells. I'd rather believe the game then a biased kid who didn't even play the game lol.

I never said the players choices was canon did i? Again you fail, i said if the character in the game(kain) has an option to go and obtain it or not, then theres no reason to assume he chose the one you want BT, optional dialogue means nothing, optional dialogue is just what he would say IF he chose to go and obtain it.

Haha not surprising your mind cannot figure out the answer to this one, it only looks slow from outer space, if you dropped a basketball from the atmosphere (assuming its durable enough) you know how fast it would travel towards the planet? Very very fast. Now if you looked at this basketball from outer space, do you know how long it would take for that basketball to reach the surface of the planet? Alot longer then that meteor would. Open your mind BT.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No, the dialogue is optional period, i've explained this to you already BT, and i've given you examples, just comprehend it. That dialogue is an "IF", IF Kain obtained the spell, that is what he WOULD say, just like IF Cloud had the earth harp, that is what the elder would say, etc. Nothing suggests Kain obtained the optional spell, nothing suggests Cloud got the optional item, in the actual plot.. optional dialogue makes ZERO difference.

What are you talking about? I gave you dialogue of KOTR AND Master Materia, you just can't remember it for more then a minute, please get your memory checked because all you're doing is repeating and repeating nonsense, you're just being too stubborn to concede.

Like i've said and proven before, the character had the option, nothing suggests he chose the option to go and obtained it, unfortunately for you.

uhh no, they could've easily made the towns larger then the character, if the towns were larger then it would be even easier to navigate to the "points of interest" you can ask the developers many questions, why do he have Kain fight a couple Saraphans at a time? If hes so uber strong, they would have him fighting 100 Saraphans at a time.

WTF is a "negative aura cast"? Your talking jibberish, your just trying too hard to downplay it, it makes completely no sense.

In the FF7 world there is only 2 instances where magic can be produced, by materia(which helps aid tapping into the lifestream for magic), or directly from the lifestream itself, now this is where using your brain comes in:

Did the SHM have any materia? No. Did you see any materia being casted? No. Did you see the negative lifestream? Yes. Now by using common sense, where did the magic come from, Negative Lifestream or Materia?

Because Kain can only move BLOOD period. Do you know what infused with the cells is? It means the cells connect into a SOLDIERs body, its toally different from blood, it become a part of the body, they bond with other cells and grow. Kain wouldn't beable to rip the cells off of a SOLDIERs body, let alone Jenova/Sephiroth itself.

.... Can you not read? We have a spirit body and Jenova cells, they go together and Sephiroth reforms himself out of the cells, so what is he? Spirit + Cells that reformed a body = what? a human?

Lol you can't debate ROFL, you bring nothing new to the table and too stubborn to admit defeat when you cannot do anything but repeat nonsense, its hilarious, what i meant when i said Kain cannot TK Blood CELLS, was that he cannot dis-mantle the CELLULAR structure of a person, because you said "He'll just TK Sephiroths JENOVA cells off" which is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, its funny you finally get something to profile all from a [b]misunderstanding HAHA, but i'll add the things you've completely understood and the most ridiculous things you've said rofl.

Sephiroth is NOT originall human, he is not a normal SOLDIER genius, you're wrong again. SOLDIERs are regular humans that were INFUSED with Jenova cells. Sephiroth was Infused with the Jenova genetics before he was even born, in his moms womb, the cells are apart of his mind as he literally is basically Jenova's son. You know jack about FF7, everytime you say something about it, its wrong in a comedic fashion.

Sephiroth was never human smart one rofl, he had part human part jenova body when he was born but he lost that body already.

Holy is that big white-ish cloud under Meteor duh, lifestream is the green lines going towards Holy.

So then tell me, how did Kain defeat EG? Because the developers obviously made it so that EG gets defeated by gettting attacked in the eye.

Or they're summons and magic, we see Cloud using a few and already seen a summon, he has a big chest full of them, obviously he gained a lot of different spells. I'd rather believe the game then a biased kid who didn't even play the game lol.

I never said the players choices was canon did i? Again you fail, i said if the character in the game(kain) has an option to go and obtain it or not, then theres no reason to assume he chose the one you want BT, optional dialogue means nothing, optional dialogue is just what he would say IF he chose to go and obtain it.

Haha not surprising your mind cannot figure out the answer to this one, it only looks slow from outer space, if you dropped a basketball from the atmosphere (assuming its durable enough) you know how fast it would travel towards the planet? Very very fast. Now if you looked at this basketball from outer space, do you know how long it would take for that basketball to reach the surface of the planet? Alot longer then that meteor would. Open your mind BT. [/B]

Optional to the player, ive also given you an example of Kain speaking, his word>you by far, and your examples dont mean anything, yuo showed me an NPC in regulour shop keeper style barely mentioning the materia, its nothing like what Kain says lol. The option is a players option, simple. **

NO you gave me an old man barely mentioning the object, nothing to do with making it part of the universe.

No, false, the player has the option, never in the canon does Kain mention he had any options, instead we have his dialogue, as ive said before, if you bring up the script of the game, you would have Kains text and what he says, not the fact that the player chooses something or not.

No because if you made the towns larger then the area the character is traversing would have to made larger as well to accomadate the larger buildings. And answer my question, how is the blocks being bigger help the player? you assume Raziel is not that strong, ive explained how the character CLoud being bigger is just an interface control that makes for easy use, but bearing in mind there are much smaller blocks in other LOK games and Raziel has picked up small hand sized objects before in the game, the developers could have easily changed it if it was not apt.

negative aura, dont you know what an Aura is? an effect that happens when its set off by a nearby object, for example the object would be Cloud, thus the Negative Aura cast would summon a shadow creep when an opponent is nearby. If you played more than FF you may know whta an Aura is.

Does something offical say you can directly tap into the lifestream? ive not heard that proven before.

w8 a min, how do you know they had zero materia? also that doesnt mean they cast it still, it could still be an aura or an effect, but they did nothing, not even a gesture or movement, for all you know it was something that the negative geostigma in the pair summoned up itself, nobody knows, so theresn o point in assuming.

Jenova cells were liquid when they went into Kadaj, you could see it pouring out of the box.

Maybe not human ,but it doesnt equel 100% cells either....

When have you brought something new? youve just repeating what ive destroyed earlier on, using your sad gameplay love. No as my quotation says quite clearly you laughed at him TKing blood... Youll add things? lol, stamping your feet now are we? childish much....

comedic fashion, like you and LOK? only thing is how is what i said comedic? outline whats funny about Sephiroth being mostly human? all hes got is some of the Jenova genetics, hes still basically human.

That big whitish? its all the same, its all lifestream, circle it.

No the developers made the gameplay revolved around attacking its eye, we dont know how it was really defeated but all of this irrelvent, since we know EG would trash FF7 like a child with a toy.

When do we see him? if he does it in the storyline then maybe they are actually canon ones, the rest are not until they are shown canon, he has a chest full of little blobs each of which is an unkown what it really does, prob mostly blasts as were shown in AC. No correction, you would rather belive Terries FF and gameplay than someone who is telling you otherwise.

Optional dialoge is not optional to the actual chracter Kain, Kain has no option, only the player does since as ive said 101 times (some nuts are thicker than others it seems) Kains script is already written by the developers. Kain doesnt stand there in the game saying "zomg where should i go, ive got some many options!" does he....no

It wasnt from outer space I was talking about:

YouTube video

at about 5:07 and throughout you can see it wasnt in space but near the city from the planets point of view, the meteor is extremely slow lmao....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Optional to the player, ive also given you an example of Kain speaking, his word>you by far, and your examples dont mean anything, yuo showed me an NPC in regulour shop keeper style barely mentioning the materia, its nothing like what Kain says lol. The option is a players option, simple. [b]**

NO you gave me an old man barely mentioning the object, nothing to do with making it part of the universe.

No, false, the player has the option, never in the canon does Kain mention he had any options, instead we have his dialogue, as ive said before, if you bring up the script of the game, you would have Kains text and what he says, not the fact that the player chooses something or not.

No because if you made the towns larger then the area the character is traversing would have to made larger as well to accomadate the larger buildings. And answer my question, how is the blocks being bigger help the player? you assume Raziel is not that strong, ive explained how the character CLoud being bigger is just an interface control that makes for easy use, but bearing in mind there are much smaller blocks in other LOK games and Raziel has picked up small hand sized objects before in the game, the developers could have easily changed it if it was not apt.

negative aura, dont you know what an Aura is? an effect that happens when its set off by a nearby object, for example the object would be Cloud, thus the Negative Aura cast would summon a shadow creep when an opponent is nearby. If you played more than FF you may know whta an Aura is.

Does something offical say you can directly tap into the lifestream? ive not heard that proven before.

w8 a min, how do you know they had zero materia? also that doesnt mean they cast it still, it could still be an aura or an effect, but they did nothing, not even a gesture or movement, for all you know it was something that the negative geostigma in the pair summoned up itself, nobody knows, so theresn o point in assuming.

Jenova cells were liquid when they went into Kadaj, you could see it pouring out of the box.

Maybe not human ,but it doesnt equel 100% cells either....

When have you brought something new? youve just repeating what ive destroyed earlier on, using your sad gameplay love. No as my quotation says quite clearly you laughed at him TKing blood... Youll add things? lol, stamping your feet now are we? childish much....

comedic fashion, like you and LOK? only thing is how is what i said comedic? outline whats funny about Sephiroth being mostly human? all hes got is some of the Jenova genetics, hes still basically human.

That big whitish? its all the same, its all lifestream, circle it.

No the developers made the gameplay revolved around attacking its eye, we dont know how it was really defeated but all of this irrelvent, since we know EG would trash FF7 like a child with a toy.

When do we see him? if he does it in the storyline then maybe they are actually canon ones, the rest are not until they are shown canon, he has a chest full of little blobs each of which is an unkown what it really does, prob mostly blasts as were shown in AC. No correction, you would rather belive Terries FF and gameplay than someone who is telling you otherwise.

Optional dialoge is not optional to the actual chracter Kain, Kain has no option, only the player does since as ive said 101 times (some nuts are thicker than others it seems) Kains script is already written by the developers. Kain doesnt stand there in the game saying "zomg where should i go, ive got some many options!" does he....no

It wasnt from outer space I was talking about:

YouTube video

at about 5:07 and throughout you can see it wasnt in space but near the city from the planets point of view, the meteor is extremely slow lmao.... [/B]

You've shown me optional dialogue, optional dialogue means nothing, storyline dialogue means something, understand that.

Nothing suggests Kain went and got that spell, he didn't HAVE to, if he did, he WOULD say that, "IF" <-- thats the key word here. So unless you have evidence that Kain actually went and obtained it, the answer is moot. Zero proof, evidence. The only evidence points to Kain not having it, sorry.

Why would he go on and on about it? In FF7 you don't get a description for every single thing you gain, this is FF7, not LOK, they're not the same game. If it was in LOK yes you would get a description, but if there was a soul rip materia in FF7, you wouldn't get a description if you gained it lol.

The game is canon, if the game gives the character an option, then the character has an option. If FF7 gave the character(Cloud) an option to gain KOTR/Master materia, then he has that option, in this case, we have no evidence to support Cloud going to obtain KOTR or master materia, therefore we cannot assume he did, same thing with Kain.

The answer is the same reason why the developers made Cloud get ran over by that huge 60 ton block, then same reason Cloud is that big when they could've just scaled him down and scaled up the towns, its all just gameplay and shouldn't be taken literally.

LOL so now it has some auto-cast when they're nearby Cloud? BT, stop being ridiculous please, some things aren't pointlessly complicated like that, that has zero reason for that to be in the movie. The answer is simple, they used to negative lifestream to bring out the shadow creeps duh, no they didn't use some auto-cast from hours ago (makes no sense).

I've told you already, the lifestream is the source of energy,power,magic, and life.

Obviously magic comes from the lifestream, its stated in the Ultimania Omega Guide:

based on Sephiroth's explanation
from the original game that materia links someone to the planet and allows them to use its powers, its most likely that the materia allows someone to tap into the Lifestream's energy

Because using materia gives off a casting aura, and using materia is different, that was obviously from the negative lifestream as you can literally see the negative lifestream, and no they did not do that bullcrap "negative aura" your claiming it to.

No point in assuming? We're using logic here, we see the negative lifestream, we know its capable of magic, and well literally see magic coming out from the negative lifestream, some things can be explained by opening your eyes, and not by text.

he abosorbed it, its not like he wore a wet shirt rofl, he ABSORBED the cells, and the cells became one with the spirit body which spawned Sephiroth.

So what is he? Half Jenova, half spirit? Kadaj was literally just a spirit of Sephiroth moved by Sephiroths will, he is part of Sephiroth/Jenova, therefore he is entirely Jenova/Sephiroth at the point where SEphiroth regenerates his body back.

Haha you keep saying "gameplay" when its a characters decision, you haven't destroyed anything rofl all you can say is "zomg kain says some optional dialogue !!!" which means absolutely nothing, theni proceed to destroy that argument once again, the you go and repeat yourself, rofl, we both know you have nothing to say, you're just too stubborn to admit defeat.

Rofl, you quote me, and act mature about it, then i quote you, and now its "childish"? haha you always continue to entertain me.

Hes zero % human, why do you keep saying he is? We're talking about AC Sephiroth, not the Sephiroth before FF7 even started.

Uh no its not "all lifestream" the white cloud thing circling around Meteor before the lifestream even gets there, i'll post the video, AND a picture since your eyes are obviously having trouble seeing it.

5:05, as you can see, its the thing under meteor destroying it before the lifestream even comes.
YouTube video

rofl they don't make things for no reason BT, if they made the way to defeat EG is by attacking its eye, then i'd rather side with the developers then you, EG has no battle feats, only your imaginary ones BT.

i meant SHM, the ones he stole from Cloud, we see him use Bolt magic spells, Summon spells, and some other magic spells, no its the normal FF, please go up to someone who has played FF7 and tell him materia has been retconned into blasts, and see how much they laugh at you, i dare you.

Yes but the script the developers make, some of them they make optional duh, they make it so IF the character gets this, he'll say this, IF the character gets that, he'll say that, if the character doesn't get this, he won't say anything. It does NOT mean the character actually went and got every one of the optional spells, it DOES NOT. Unless there is proof he got the bonus spell, theres no reason to assume he did, same thing as the optional items/materi/equipment in FF7.

Its a 10+ year old game, stop trying to pick out its faults, its obviously not going to be 100% realistic, but the size makes it LOOK slow, just look at the modern day simulation video of the meteor i showed you, it looks slow as well. If its high up, it'll look like its slow as well.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I know that the gravity of Earth is going to have a meteor coming at it faster than in FF, when its right over the city its not going at mach 25-50 lmao...

A median country haha? it looks about as big as the piece of midguard you see imo.
Whats funny and where you really really fail is when you go on about meteors and nukes then you claim [b]holy is stronger than a nuke without any evidence for Holy...hehe

funny old Leon [/B]

no you dont, infact you know little to nuthing about the subject. it isnt faster than in final fantasy at all, thats because the size of the meteor is so humoungous that it LOOKS slow. think of a boeng 747 heavy, if you look at it from far away, it seems to take off even though it looks like its going at SNALE'S pace, as opposed to the experience of you riding in a small/fast car. that is because the EQUILVALENT distance to its bod weight its covering every second{speed} is very small, as its body is so large. please educate yourself before spewing nonesense and actually see seom simulated videos of meteros/planet crashes.

lmao, at sum1 who hanst PLAYED final fantasy 7 or watched advent children telling ME about the size of the meteor AND midguard 😆 . you fail horribly in both, the size of the meteor can be compared to the size of the planet seen in the background, its atleast as big as a medium sized country{america is not a medium sized country, just to make things easier for your brain}. a meteor that size would utterly destroy the surface of the planet, its stronger than all nukes on earth combined, and HOLY was going to STOP it by pure force of the lifestream, making it easily stronger than any nuke, not to mention, no nuke cud cover the area is covers on the planet.

now my idiotic pal. wud you do the world a huge favour and stop talking? caus really NO1 here buys into what you say, no matter how many times you praise your undeserving self and your non existant debating skills {or brain}.

Originally posted by Terryc250
You've shown me optional dialogue, optional dialogue means nothing, storyline dialogue means something, understand that.

Nothing suggests Kain went and got that spell, he didn't HAVE to, if he did, he WOULD say that, "IF" <-- thats the key word here. So unless you have evidence that Kain actually went and obtained it, the answer is moot. Zero proof, evidence. The only evidence points to Kain not having it, sorry.

Why would he go on and on about it? In FF7 you don't get a description for every single thing you gain, this is FF7, not LOK, they're not the same game. If it was in LOK yes you would get a description, but if there was a soul rip materia in FF7, you wouldn't get a description if you gained it lol.

The game is canon, if the game gives the character an option, then the character has an option. If FF7 gave the character(Cloud) an option to gain KOTR/Master materia, then he has that option, in this case, we have no evidence to support Cloud going to obtain KOTR or master materia, therefore we cannot assume he did, same thing with Kain.

The answer is the same reason why the developers made Cloud get ran over by that huge 60 ton block, then same reason Cloud is that big when they could've just scaled him down and scaled up the towns, its all just gameplay and shouldn't be taken literally.

LOL so now it has some auto-cast when they're nearby Cloud? BT, stop being ridiculous please, some things aren't pointlessly complicated like that, that has zero reason for that to be in the movie. The answer is simple, they used to negative lifestream to bring out the shadow creeps duh, no they didn't use some auto-cast from hours ago (makes no sense).

I've told you already, the lifestream is the source of energy,power,magic, and life.

Obviously magic comes from the lifestream, its stated in the Ultimania Omega Guide:

based on Sephiroth's explanation
from the original game that materia links someone to the planet and allows them to use its powers, its most likely that the [b]materia allows someone to tap into the Lifestream's energy

Because using materia gives off a casting aura, and using materia is different, that was obviously from the negative lifestream as you can literally see the negative lifestream, and no they did not do that bullcrap "negative aura" your claiming it to.

No point in assuming? We're using logic here, we see the negative lifestream, we know its capable of magic, and well literally see magic coming out from the negative lifestream, some things can be explained by opening your eyes, and not by text.

he abosorbed it, its not like he wore a wet shirt rofl, he ABSORBED the cells, and the cells became one with the spirit body which spawned Sephiroth.

So what is he? Half Jenova, half spirit? Kadaj was literally just a spirit of Sephiroth moved by Sephiroths will, he is part of Sephiroth/Jenova, therefore he is entirely Jenova/Sephiroth at the point where SEphiroth regenerates his body back.

Haha you keep saying "gameplay" when its a characters decision, you haven't destroyed anything rofl all you can say is "zomg kain says some optional dialogue !!!" which means absolutely nothing, theni proceed to destroy that argument once again, the you go and repeat yourself, rofl, we both know you have nothing to say, you're just too stubborn to admit defeat.

Rofl, you quote me, and act mature about it, then i quote you, and now its "childish"? haha you always continue to entertain me.

Hes zero % human, why do you keep saying he is? We're talking about AC Sephiroth, not the Sephiroth before FF7 even started.

Uh no its not "all lifestream" the white cloud thing circling around Meteor before the lifestream even gets there, i'll post the video, AND a picture since your eyes are obviously having trouble seeing it.

5:05, as you can see, its the thing under meteor destroying it before the lifestream even comes.
YouTube video

rofl they don't make things for no reason BT, if they made the way to defeat EG is by attacking its eye, then i'd rather side with the developers then you, EG has no battle feats, only your imaginary ones BT.

i meant SHM, the ones he stole from Cloud, we see him use Bolt magic spells, Summon spells, and some other magic spells, no its the normal FF, please go up to someone who has played FF7 and tell him materia has been retconned into blasts, and see how much they laugh at you, i dare you.

Yes but the script the developers make, some of them they make optional duh, they make it so IF the character gets this, he'll say this, IF the character gets that, he'll say that, if the character doesn't get this, he won't say anything. It does NOT mean the character actually went and got every one of the optional spells, it DOES NOT. Unless there is proof he got the bonus spell, theres no reason to assume he did, same thing as the optional items/materi/equipment in FF7.

Its a 10+ year old game, stop trying to pick out its faults, its obviously not going to be 100% realistic, but the size makes it LOOK slow, just look at the modern day simulation video of the meteor i showed you, it looks slow as well. If its high up, it'll look like its slow as well. [/B]

No ive shown you dialogue, not optional because you need to realise the optional part is the players gameplay decision.

No evidence poiunts to him not having it at all lol.....yet his word himself says he gains it, thus pointing to him having it durr..

Well then stop saying "materia are alike with LOK spells" because they dont have a description or anything connecting them with the story or the game unvierse, case closed.

yh the game is canon, the optional player gameplay is not....No because nothing makes as we found out above the materia canon.

Thats not an asnwer, asnwer properly, how would the blocks being large help the players? as ive said, they make Cloud big so the player can manipulate the environment easier, if he was a tiny dot compared to the city not only would it be a long time having to travel to the town but it would be pointless, why would they possible make the rocks Raziel moves that big if its not supposed to be? i think youve failed here...again..

They didnt use jack, you dont see them even moving or saying anything, your assumin again, stop doing it.

yes, so? that doesnt show or tell me that people can just tap into it on a whim, nothing says that, not another Terry assumption?

You would know if they created the Aura, since as I said it could have been before they attacjed Cloud, Ime simply doing what your doing, assuming. Thing is nothing states you can literally just tap into the lifestream without materia.

The cells prob entered his bloodstream, making him Sephiroth. Thus, Sephiroh has blood cells, only their called Jenova cells.

.We both know your gameplay is not propping you up high enough, your just too stubborn to admit defeate and concede. Youve goofed so many times so far. as ive said before show me where Kain says he has an option?

yh because quoting you first is mature, when you doing it back its like being a grumpy child stamping their feet because they dont like something happening to them.

Just looks like atmosphere to me, nothing to do with Holy imo, and destorinyg it? the characters themselves say Holy fails and is actually doing the opposite to what its supposed ot do, helping instead of stopping meteor so its not "destroying" it, is it....
Its funny how you people go on about Holy being powerful when a handfull of Nukes would blow up that meteor, Holy is doing nothing but helping.

You can side with their gameplay, sure, in gameplay you slash the eye, but no canon states or dictates he is defeated by having his eye slash, simple things kiddo, but learn your gameplay from your storyline please, you use it too much.

No we see him cast one summon and a few blasts not too disamiliar to a smaller version of what the pair on top of the roof fire.

Optional script, what BS lol...what the hell are you talking about, the script of the games canon is already written ,Kain has no real options...Kain doesnt appear on the Developers screen and asks them his options lol...your the one adding gameplay and Player decisions to make them seem canon...lol, unfortautnley for you, players deicsiosn are not canon.

oh I see, so now its the games age that makes meteor slow, what a crock of BS.....its obvious meteor is such a slow and sad little summon that only beings in FF would have trouble with it.