Looking at the fight, I'm more certain that Doom couldn't do much at all to Hulk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAyhLbQfbFo
If Johnny's attack was as hot as the sun, it would have melted entirely through the asphalt and concrete; all it did was sorch a few inches.
Sue did hold off Doom's blast, she just couldn't hold it indefinitely.
Doom isn't as strong as the Thing, though he does have a degree of super-strength.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
How do you know it was 5000 C?
Because I seem to remember Reed telling us this based on his equipment when Johnny was almost taking of the first time. Now this is asking for patience (unless you got the film)
Go to 49:40
on this link there is the scenario
http://66stage.com/movies.php?pl=yok&url=XMzI2NTQ3Mjg
and sorry not 5000 kelvin but 4000 kelvin and to quote Sue, "Any Hotter you are approching supernova"
And he was melting Titanium but he wasn't melting Doom.
Originally posted by Robtard
If Johnny's attack was as hot as the sun, it would have melted entirely through the asphalt and concrete; all it did was sorch a few inches.
I think you really just need to accept that Johnny's attack was as hot as the Sun.
Here's why:
- He was reaching that temperature before in the heat chamber. If he hadn't been stopped, he would have. He was already at 4000k when they stopped him. I would already take this as concrete proof that he could do it, coupled with the fact that:
- This is a feat that Johnny is known for in the comics. It really should clear up any minor doubts that he could do so (personally I see NO evidence that would allow any doubts).
- Later Reed asks him to go Super nova. He wouldn't have done that if he didn't think he could do it.
And about the flames melting the ground - you're absolutely right, it should have, but movies aren't always 100% scientifically plausible/accurate.
Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Bu she still did contain it, which means that the strength of it may have been diminished. If it was done full force it could have had catastrophic results. Maybe.Which is irrelevent. You're using A>B>C logic here.
Sue's shields > Johnny's Super nova.
Sue's Shields < Doom's blasts
thus,
Doom's blasts > Johnny's supernova
Doom's blasts > Huc.
The logic is messed up.
They're two completely different attacks with different characteristics. Doom's attacks use kinetic damage and electrical damage, whereas a supernova is an intense flare of heat. The only thing proven by the Doom > Sue > Johnny debcale is that her shields have a high resistence to heat and a lower resistence to kinetic force. Just because Doom's attack broke through her shields does not mean that it's > the supernova. If they were both electrical atatcks then you'd have a case. If they were fire you'd have a case. They're not.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
With his blasts, you know, the ones that broke Sue's shields, which withstood Johnny's Supernova?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If it was as hot as the Sun it would have destroyed the Earth, so let's accept that Reed was exaggerating.-AC
Lets just accept that the equipment reed and sue used registered around 4000 kelvin, sure it could have destroyed earth but as mentioned previously movies isn't always scientifically accurate.
With prep time, Doom would win. But since he doesn't have prep time, This is what happens:
Doom goes on an "eggo-trip" and shoots his powers at Bruce, and hurts him badly, but does not kill him.
Now, Hulk is INFURIATED(PISSED OFF). It's going to take the whole entire Marvel universe to clean up Doom's murdered remains.
Bruce FTW.
Okay folks lets go over this again.
I'm going to lay out the facts so they won't be disputed.
The intention of this post is not meant for evidence that Doom will undeniably beat Hulk.
Here we go...
Johnny Storm / Human Torch
Feat: Supernova
1. Here is the containment chamber which Torch heats up in an experiment. As you can see it is made of titanium, which melts at around 2000K. I would also speculate that the tubes feeding to the chamber contains cooling fluids which would be a common practice.
2. Here is the last shot that we get to see of the heat level as shown on the computer screen. It shows 3725K and is rapidly rising (can't see in a still image).
3. This is the next shot. Sue and Richards are definitely feeling it and are yelling for him to stop. The chamber looks like its possibly melting.
4. After Torch is stopped, we can see indeed the chamber is melted.
At this point, the following dialogue takes place:
Susan Storm: You were at 4,000 degrees Kelvin! You were approaching Super-Nova!
Johnny Storm: Sweet!
Susan Storm: No, not "sweet"! That's the heat of the sun!
Reed Richards: You could kill yourself, other people, and burn up the atmosphere, ending all human life as we know it.
Johnny Storm: Got it. Super-Nova bad.
5.
If Johnny's attack was as hot as the sun, it would have melted entirely through the asphalt and concrete; all it did was sorch a few inches.
As you can see in the above pictures, the concrete/asphalt is indeed completely molten.
The Thing
1. Just a strength feat. I would say it is comparable (if not superior) to the Hulk smashing a car in half.
Susan Storm
Feat: Strength of Force Field
1. Here Sue Storm is containing Torch's Supernova with her force field. No doubt it must be very strong.
Dr Doom
Feat: Strength of Electric Blast
1. Melting metal beams upon contact.
2. Here Sue blocks Doom's blast for a few moments, but frantically tells Reed that she can't hold him any longer.
3. Doom casually melts a hole through this poor board member. Notice he isn't using any effort at all. Watching this scene in video will show that quite clearly as well.
4. Really a combination of strength and the power of his electric blasts. Sends Thing flying, soon after he is about to impale him (whether or not he is able to really impale him is unknown, although Doom looks confident he can) if not for his Fantastic buddies.
I might also add here that Thing and Doom have been going at it physically for awhile before this shot, and despite everything Thing threw at him, Doom kept coming back for more. I would say they are on par in strength, although if Doom is really able to impale Thing, thats a different story.
Feat: Energy Generation
1. Here Doom powers Reed's cosmic machine. Despite all Reed's wealth, intellect and resources, he was unable to generate enough power for the machine to work properly.
Doom shows the immense level of energy he can generate by giving the machine a significant boost (almost double, if seen on the computer screen).
Directly after Thing is converted to his human form, the following dialogue takes place:
Victor Von Doom: I've always wanted power. Now I have an unlimited supply.
Ben Grimm: And no Thing to stand in your way.
---------------------------------
Finis
I never thought about that until now but they actually do seem more heat based, especially after relooking at the pic above of him shooting a hole through that guy's chest. As weird as it sounds, I think it could possibly cause a similar sized hole in the Hulk as his healing was toned down a bit in TIH, but I'm sure he'd still keep fighting.