(pre-retcon)Beyonder vs Scathan/Protege/Molecule Man(pre-retcon)

who wins?

Well, if Scathan was empowered by TOAA, could he actually stalemate PreR Beyonder? I don't know. Just look what Scathan did to Protege.

I think Scathan is the only one being that is more powerful than PreR MM. I think as what Protege was and in state when he already had all powers of HawkGod, LT and others could battle PreR MM and maybe eventually surpass him due to his powers, but not Pre Beyonder or Scathan.

This is between Scathan and PreR Beyonder. Somehow I am more toward PreR Beyonder, but still, if Scathan was truly empowered by TOAA, which seems he was. You cannot deal with someone unimaginably powerful Protege just like that. LT was afraid of PreR Beyonder, but by his reaction and was shocked, he seemed afraid also of Protege.

In such battle, even Protege power wouldn't help, since we saw he was nothing to Scathan. In such battle, even with all the powers he had, he would be immediately destroyed

Beyonder wins.

Scathan is somewhere above the LT in power, but he's not leagues above LT.
We know this because LT only needed to boost his power with the Amulet to over power Protege,
imo, this boost would've probably put LT = to Scathan, so it's not much.

Beyonder was literally millions of times more powerful than the LT.

I think Scathan was much above LT. Maybe with time Protege could also surpass LT with amulet (that amulet power boost seemed to be far more than all other abstracts powers combined), but I can never see him surpassing Scathan. He was just nothing to him.

But like I said, I am toward PreR Beyonder.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I think Scathan was much above LT.

I'm just basing my opinion on the fact that LT surpassed Protege with the Amulet.

The Amulet is powerful,
that's how Dormammu was bale to reach the core of Eternity in 616.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Maybe with time Protege could also surpass LT with amulet
(that amulet power boost seemed to be far more than all other abstracts powers combined)

Originally posted by Xplosive

but I can never see him surpassing Scathan.
He was just nothing to him.

I have to say though, it's too much to say LT was nothing to him.

beyonder has more to worry about from owen reese than the lt.

Pre-retcon Beyonder wins.

Going by the logic that Protege copies ones entire power when it's being demonstrated (with exception of Scathan apparently) then I cannot quiet see why People give Pre Retcon Beyonder the win... I mean the instant Beyonder performs a attack of some kind Protege copies his entire power... that would make him, Pre-retcon MM + Beyonder + LT + Hawkgod + Multiversal Eternity.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Going by the logic that Protege copies ones entire power when it's being demonstrated (with exception of Scathan apparently) then I cannot quiet see why People give Pre Retcon Beyonder the win... I mean the instant Beyonder performs a attack of some kind Protege copies his entire power... that would make him, Pre-retcon MM + Beyonder + LT + Hawkgod + Multiversal Eternity.

Also, Protege doesn't copy the entire power at first glance,
the reason he copied LT's full power I later understood,
is because he copied the LT's judgmental proceeders,
thus copying the LT's status which translates to power:

Which is why after these proceedings he had transformed into the LT.

I was impressed, I didn't think he could get power this way,
he can take the power of Concepts when they exercise their purpose ... sweet.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Going by the logic that Protege copies ones entire power when it's being demonstrated (with exception of Scathan apparently) then I cannot quiet see why People give Pre Retcon Beyonder the win... I mean the instant Beyonder performs a attack of some kind Protege copies his entire power... that would make him, Pre-retcon MM + Beyonder + LT + Hawkgod + Multiversal Eternity.

Well, logically yes, since Protege didn't shown any limits to his power, except Scathan (we still don't know why). I have no doubt that in time Protege would go beyond LT with amulet, easily. If TOAA is in anyway involved with Scathan, then it's clear why Protege couldn't copy his power or anything, but that cannot be said for PreR Beyonder. Maybe first he would copy PreR MM. Since Protege didn't close shown limits, we can say he could do it, then he would move on with PreR Beyonder.

I just cannot say anything other than TOAA being involved with defeat of Protege, since Protege easily surpassed LT and Scathan cleared with him just like that and we know LT is 2nd to TOAA.
LT+Multi Eternity+others were joke to Protege.
In time, he would go only further.

Beyonder wins.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If Scathan stomped him, so does Beyonder and MM.

Also, Protege doesn't copy the entire power at first glance,
the reason he copied LT's full power I later understood,
is because he copied the LT's judgmental proceeders,
thus copying the LT's status which translates to power:

Which is why after these proceedings he had transformed into the LT.

Scathan stomped him under unknown circumstances (was he empowered by Toaa etc), because Scathan can defeat Protege I see no reason to suggest that Pre retcon MM and Beyonder can, power doesn't equal that they possesses the same resistance to Protege's ability to copy their powers as scathan did.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Scathan stomped him under unknown circumstances (was he empowered by Toaa etc), because Scathan can defeat Protege I see no reason to suggest that Pre retcon MM and Beyonder can, power doesn't equal that they possesses the same resistance to Protege's ability to copy their powers as scathan did.

So, even if it took LT tapping into Eternity's power to get the edge on Protege,
Beyonder is millions of times that of both LT and Eternity combined.

Protege was not leagues above LT, and Scathan was not leagues above Protege,
remember, they still had to finish off Protege together.

Scathan contained him, LT terminated him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, LT became powerful enough to deal with Protege after drawing on the Amulet,
the Amulet taps into Eternity's infinity.

So, even if it took LT tapping into Eternity's power to get the edge on Protege,
Beyonder is millions of times that of both LT and Eternity combined.

Protege was not leagues above Protege, and Scathan was not leagues above Protege,
remember, they still had to finish off Protege together.

Scathan contained him, LT terminated him.

I realise all that perfectly well, what I fail to see is why Protege is unable to copy Pre retcon Beyonder and Pre retcon Molecule Man's power when nothing suggest that they have the same ability as Scathan to counter Proteges ability to copy their entire powerset when they display it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, LT became powerful enough to deal with Protege after drawing on the Amulet,
the Amulet taps into Eternity's infinity.

So, even if it took LT tapping into Eternity's power to get the edge on Protege,
Beyonder is millions of times that of both LT and Eternity combined.

Protege was not leagues above LT, and Scathan was not leagues above Protege,
remember, they still had to finish off Protege together.

Scathan contained him, LT terminated him.

Yes, but here is PreR MM, more powerful than LT. Who says Protege wouldn't be able to copy him immediately. I think he could and then he would move to battle PreR Beyonder.

Protege has to see Beyonder's power to copy it. If B wants it to be so, he won't see shit, he will only be destroyed.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Well, logically yes, since Protege didn't shown any limits to his power, except Scathan (we still don't know why). I have no doubt that in time Protege would go beyond LT with amulet, easily. If TOAA is in anyway involved with Scathan, then it's clear why Protege couldn't copy his power or anything, but that cannot be said for PreR Beyonder. Maybe first he would copy PreR MM. Since Protege didn't close shown limits, we can say he could do it, then he would move on with PreR Beyonder.

I just cannot say anything other than TOAA being involved with defeat of Protege, since Protege easily surpassed LT and Scathan cleared with him just like that and we know LT is 2nd to TOAA.
LT+Multi Eternity+others were joke to Protege.
In time, he would go only further.

Beyonder was also a supreme being according to Shooter.

Do you think Protege can take on THOTI?

Not imo.

Originally posted by Utrigita

I realise all that perfectly well, what I fail to see is why Protege is unable to copy Pre retcon Beyonder and Pre retcon Molecule Man's power when nothing suggest that they have the same ability as Scathan to counter Proteges ability to copy their entire powerset when they display it.

So this is a pointless argument good friend, we'll just end up in a curcular discussion.

Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than the LT and Eternity combined.

LT overpowered Protege by tapping into Eternity's power.

Simple.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, but here is PreR MM, more powerful than LT. Who says Protege wouldn't be able to copy him immediately. I think he could and then he would move to battle PreR Beyonder.

MM lasted what, two panels against the Beyonder.

MM himself stated that Beyonder transacts on levels un-imaginable to him:

This is after his battle with Beyonder, (two panels)
MM became so weak, he needed the Silver Surfer's help to repair the planet Earth.
This is the same guy who was also more powerful than all of Marvel.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nothing suggest that they can't counter Protege's ability either. 🙂

So this is a pointless argument good friend, we'll just end up in a curcular discussion.

Beyonder was millions of times more powerful than the LT and Eternity combined.

LT overpowered Protege by tapping into Eternity's power.

Simple.

And nothing suggest the opposite 🙂

Agree to disagree it is then.