The Xmen vs The Incredible Hulk

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
She didn't just turn them to dust, she vaporized them instantaneously, effortlessly . The only reason she didn't disintegrate Wolverine is because Jean was fighting against the Phoenix. Hulks healing factor is useless and i don't even know why you believe it would defend against Jeans telekinesis and overall psychic abilities. How is the Hulks' healing factor going to defend against being thrown into space or having his mind shut off?

You're assuming she could produce enough heat and energy to completely burn the hulk away, may I remind you yet again that the Hulk withstood a gamma bomb. His healing factor just adds to the equation of him surviving her attacks. So, is there any indictation in the movies that her attacks are considerably more lethal than being hit by a gamma bomb at ground zero?

As far the mental assualts, I ask gain, can Jean destroy minds? I can't remember from the movies.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
When they're holding on to him with the power of one of the most powerful mutants in existence? Hell yeah. Long enough for him to either be mind-raped or hit with the focused energy of the concussion blasts, lightning bolts, fire, ice, and whatever. That'll at least slow him down long enough for his mind to be shut down by Jean. If it's Dark Phoenix, she can just disintergrate him with a wave of her hand.

Hulk is equally "one of the most powerful mutants in existance". Any attack the mutants can muster do not compare with what Hulk has been shown to withstand (a gamma bomb), so just stop with that nonsense, I already showed you above/other page.

Can Jean/DP destroy minds, I don't recall, can you give me an example from the movies of this? If so, this would be the way Hulk loses.

in the comics jean split hulks mind from banners in order to fight onslaught

Sorry guys, I should have made it clearer. I meant Jean Grey and not Dark Phoenix.

It's just that in the comics Phoenix was another entity so I didn't bother specifying it was Jean.

But I guess in the movie its just another personality.

Jean Grey guys, not the earth destroying Phoenix!

I feel I need to apologize again lol, cause you guys have already got well into the debate with different assumptions/interpretations of who I meant by Jean.

Sorry 🙁

Without Phoenix, the Hulk would have to take the X-Men, but the X-Men could probably escape if they had to with minimal casualties. With Phoenix, its not even really a fight.

Originally posted by Robtard
Hulk is equally "one of the most powerful mutants in existance". Any attack the mutants can muster do not compare with what Hulk has been shown to withstand (a gamma bomb), so just stop with that nonsense, I already showed you above/other page.

Can Jean/DP destroy minds, I don't recall, can you give me an example from the movies of this? If so, this would be the way Hulk loses.

No, I can't quite recall Jean actually destroying someone's mind within the films; she can, however, influence minds and use telekinesis. It's plausible that she can influence Hulk's mind to surpress his rage and cause him to revert back to the Bruce Banner form. I mean, really, we know she's a highly powerful telepath, so surpressing someone's rage shouldn't be -that- tough for her.

And you're right that Hulk withstood the force of a gamma bomb; however, that doesn't mean that he'll be able to break out of Magneto's metal-cage. Perhaps he rips a bridge apart and uses it to tie up the Hulk? He manipulated a bridge back in The Last Stand. You don't have to damage the Hulk in order to subdue him; if Magneto restricts his ability to move, that should give Jean the opening necessary to alter his mind.

Originally posted by Master Crimzon
No, I can't quite recall Jean actually destroying someone's mind within the films; she can, however, influence minds and use telekinesis. It's plausible that she can influence Hulk's mind to surpress his rage and cause him to revert back to the Bruce Banner form. I mean, really, we know she's a highly powerful telepath, so surpressing someone's rage shouldn't be -that- tough for her.

When Professor X tried to enter Huc's mind the feedback raped him. Certainly possible here.

And you're right that Hulk withstood the force of a gamma bomb; however, that doesn't mean that he'll be able to break out of Magneto's metal-cage. Perhaps he rips a bridge apart and uses it to tie up the Hulk? He manipulated a bridge back in The Last Stand. You don't have to damage the Hulk in order to subdue him; if Magneto restricts his ability to move, that should give Jean the opening necessary to alter his mind.

Because Mr. "I can outrun attack helicopters and can jump miles" will be caught by Magneto's slow ass metal TK?

Please. Hulk wins without too much difficulty.

Originally posted by Placidity
Sorry guys, I should have made it clearer. I meant Jean Grey and not Dark Phoenix.

It's just that in the comics Phoenix was another entity so I didn't bother specifying it was Jean.

But I guess in the movie its just another personality.

Jean Grey guys, not the earth destroying Phoenix!

Now you've just made the fight unfair.Everyone of knows that an rampaging Hulk could crush the X-men without the Phoenix helping them.So with that said why would you even make this thread with such an unfair advantage.We all are not sure if jean did or did not use telepathy in the movies.Now in this case it's useless to even post anymore.

Even Phoenix from the movie would lose based on feats. What's her best attack? Dissolving people the same she failed against Wolverine?

What were the Hulks movie feats?

Surviving a nuclear bomb at ground zero. Catching missiles with his hands and throwing them back, hurling tanks literally miles.

There's a lot more.

Yea.i'll have check it out.Though I hate Hulk just as I hate wolive and superman.(It takes the fun out when some of these charactors are to hard to beat)

Jean "I can disintegrate people with a thought" Gray isn't hard to beat?

~I'm talking about the comics.not the movies.Also I like jean or some what like her.Yes she's to dang hard to beat also.~

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Even Phoenix from the movie would lose based on feats. What's her best attack? Dissolving people the same she failed against Wolverine?

Come on...

This has been discussed many times now. Phoenix wasn't trying (or using full effort) to kill Wolverine.

Common sense should tell you that:

Earth-Destroying Mutant/Omega Level/ "Class 5" >>>>> Wolverine

But here is some solid evidence Phoenix could have raped him easily:

- As shown, Phoenix can disintegrate people INSTANTANEOUSLY.

- Over all 3 X-men movies, Wolverine cannot heal at a rate faster than she can disintegrate, i.e INSTANTANEOUSLY. All his healing feats show that his HF takes some time (at least several seconds).

- She blasted him with a few "telekinetic waves" from the front to slow him down. In her full attack, she disintegrates the whole body at once, not "waves blasts" in one direction.

- If she was really trying to kill him, and FAILED with her main disintegration attack (an impossible "IF" btw), she could have mind raped him, or more likely used her telekinesis to smash him around or at least push him back like she first did to him in the X-men basement/institute.

- As above, she could have raped him the way Magneto has raped him over the trilogy.

Magneto: I can control metal...but you (Phoenix) can do anything.

Originally posted by Placidity
This has been discussed many times now. Phoenix wasn't trying (or using full effort) to kill Wolverine.

This has been canonically proven?

Common sense should tell you that:

Earth-Destroying Mutant/Omega Level/ "Class 5" >>>>> Wolverine[/quote]

I honestly can't even remember where it was proven she was world destroying in the movie.

- As shown, Phoenix can disintegrate people INSTANTANEOUSLY.

When? Every time I remember seeing her do it it happens gradually.

- Over all 3 X-men movies, Wolverine cannot heal at a rate faster than she can disintegrate, i.e INSTANTANEOUSLY. All his healing feats show that his HF takes some time (at least several seconds).

He also usually receives much more damage at a much sudden rate. It's not gradual like hers.

- She blasted him with a few "telekinetic waves" from the front to slow him down. In her full attack, she disintegrates the whole body at once, not "waves blasts" in one direction.

Don't remember. Sorry. I haven't seen the movie in years.

Can anyone post her stuff?

- If she was really trying to kill him, and FAILED with her main disintegration attack (an impossible "IF" btw), she could have mind raped him, or more likely used her telekinesis to smash him around or at least push him back like she first did to him in the X-men basement/institute.

But I'm only talking about the disintegration. I'm quite aware she could have mind raped him.
[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter though. Hulk's taken a nuclear bomb, a force that is strong enough to instantly vaporize buildings, at it's strongest point, without being KO'd.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

I honestly can't even remember where it was proven she was world destroying in the movie.

- Given that she has shown to disintegrate instantaneously anything just with her mind, what causes you to think otherwise?

- It is based on Dark Phoenix in the comics, which is a world-destroyer. Arguably, in the movie, there is no evidence she is as powerful as her comic counterpart. But there's also no proof against it. So again, what causes you to think otherwise?

- Charles said she would have been too powerful if he hadn't placed the mental blocks.

- Magneto further describes her as a goddess, and she can do anything she could think of.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

When? Every time I remember seeing her do it it happens gradually.

Watched it again just then. Charles dies instantaneously. Several other similar cases in the final fight scene as well. Some get disintegrated almost instantaneously from head to toe.

- That proves she is capable of instantaneous disintegration.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

He also usually receives much more damage at a much sudden rate. It's not gradual like hers.

Edit: Her disintergration attack at full power is not gradual as proven above.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown

Doesn't matter though. Hulk's taken a nuclear bomb, a force that is strong enough to instantly vaporize buildings, at it's strongest point, without being KO'd.

While the word gamma bomb definitely sounds impressive, there's no evidence to suggest that it's more powerful than Phoenix's disintegration. They both work differently I believe. Phoenix uses telekinesis to rip atoms of the body apart.

Also, just if anyone is interested - In a deleted scene in X3, Phoenix was shown to be able to manipulate matter at the atomic level, and used it to almost kill the rebel mutants at Magneto's camp. She rearranged a tin can into a substance (?) that was emitting large amounts of radiation and she was blasting the mutants with it/ Or it was passively damaging them, not sure.

This was right after Magneto said she could do anything she could think of, and she proves his point.

The people/mutants Phoenix turned to dust did not have Hulk's durability, not even within range. So was it stated or shown she can disintegrate anything no matter what, or are her destructive powers limited to what she's trying to destroy, i.e. could she disintegrate a tank as easily as she could disintegrate a squirrel?

Edit:

Originally posted by Placidity
[BThis was right after Magneto said she could do anything she could think of, and she proves his point. [/B]

Didn't see this, if true, then there it is.

Hulk would (eventually) destroy all them though if Jean doesn't have her DP powers.

This topic doesn't include DP anyway... But I just addressing the myth that Wolverine could withstand DP's full power.