Originally posted by TheBadguy
There is no way to prove how fast their are going because most of it is unquantifiable and they don't use narration bubbles to explain like our comics do. The best case I've seen is since we've seen their blasts go ftl and they routinely dodge blasts that some of them are ftl.
By that logic, Mr. Satan has superluminal reaction speeds.
Ki blasts do not go faster than light.
Originally posted by Soljer
By that logic, Mr. Satan has superluminal reaction speeds.Ki blasts do not go faster than light.
It's possible that they do, in some caes. The whole moon destruction thing. Depends on your interpretation.
I think the DB universe is so inconsistant with real world physics that it can't be compared very well to anything but itself. Alas, tons of internet nerds have tried using physics for show, though.
Piccolo one shots the moon in one panel, we see the beam reach the moon instantly.
http://s4.tinypic.com/34htixh.jpg
same with the anime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-tiKJOQN7c
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except that they still take minutes to fly to another point on earth...Even Gotenks took almost a minute to fly to Buu's house after Picollo caught up to him.
When Goku fought Cell in the Cell Games, Cell was faster than him and IT didn't help him much.
Its taken Surfer time to get to places he could reach almost instantly, that doesn't mean he's not that fast. Everyone is not going balls to the wall out when they fly all the time. Dbzers especially rely on ki to fly, the faster they go the more energy they lose and more tired they get, they fly casually most of the time.
At best Cell was slightly faster than Goku, IT helped plenty when he bothered to use it, and when they trade blows its impossible to tell if Goku is using IT or if he's just going faster.
Originally posted by TheBadguy
Piccolo one shots the moon in one panel, we see the beam reach the moon instantly.
*snip*
Anime is not canon, and there was no timeframe provided for the manga. Even if you accept it was a second or so, it's an outlier, as most ki blasts don't travel anywhere near that fast.
Its taken Surfer time to get to places he could reach almost instantly, that doesn't mean he's not that fast.
Because he has consistent feats showing he is that fast.
Everyone is not going balls to the wall out when they fly all the time. Dbzers especially rely on ki to fly, the faster they go the more energy they lose and more tired they get, they fly casually most of the time.
Gotenks wasn't thinking about that at all, he was completely hotheaded and overconfident. (As shown by the fact that he didn't even think of the fusion expiring when he went to fight Buu).
At best Cell was slightly faster than Goku, IT helped plenty when he bothered to use it, and when they trade blows its impossible to tell if Goku is using IT or if he's just going faster.
Sorry, IT is only good for teleportation, it doesn't work if your opponent can react faster than you can and attack you before you can use it, or is in a completely different location by the time you manage to use it. It was only used in the fight to escape Cell's ki blast, and then to trick Cell by using a Kamehameha after it was already charged up (which only happened because Cell was stupid enough to let him charge it up in the first place).
[QUOTE=11217476]Originally posted by Csdabest
Cosidering That Special beam canon reached the moon. Rather quickly before the rediclous transformation and trainning buffs. I would have to say that they are in the vacinity of Lightspeed to a degree. But not actually lightspeed or faster than it. [/QUOTE
That was during the beginning of dbz when raditz dodged that light speed attack. Goku during the vegeta saga>>>>>>>>>raditz with speed.
Goku should be able to dodge that attack with ease during the saiyan saga. Light speed aint shit to dbz. How many time have we seen dragonball z character outrace a beam and if we was to use the anime, hell goku turned to light during his fight with cell. Yep he actually turned into light due to him moving so fast.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Anime is not canon, and there was no timeframe provided for the manga. Even if you accept it was a second or so, it's an outlier, as most ki blasts don't travel anywhere near that fast.Because he has consistent feats showing he is that fast.
Gotenks wasn't thinking about that at all, he was completely hotheaded and overconfident. (As shown by the fact that he didn't even think of the fusion expiring when he went to fight Buu).
Sorry, IT is only good for teleportation, it doesn't work if your opponent can react faster than you can and attack you before you can use it, or is in a completely different location by the time you manage to use it. It was only used in the fight to escape Cell's ki blast, and then to trick Cell by using a Kamehameha after it was already charged up (which only happened because Cell was stupid enough to let him charge it up in the first place).
We are just going to disagree, there is almost never any specific timeframe given for anything in the manga. If thats the case there would be no point in arguing any of this period. I didn't say every blast was going that fast, but we've seen their charged beams move like that repeatedly.
IT is good for fighting or teleportation, he can use it instantly without fingers. Like I said you can't tell when Goku is using it or not in a fight because the only way to tell he's using IT when not going far is if he puts his fingers on his head which he has shown he does not have to do.
Originally posted by CsdabestIt was a normal ki blast. And besides the two times the moon was destroyed they never move that fast.
I dont know. That manga shot of Piccolo Shooting the moon with this SBCannon should have done it. SHot and fired all in one panel. One panel should only be like a few seconds.
Originally posted by Magee
That is the point, how can you say they move at lightspeed when you have no way to prove it?
I said some of their blasts do and some of them can at least in bursts. but Its hard to prove anything with the manga period, it rarely fleshes things out 100% and rarely uses narration bubbles. Most all of it is up for interpretation. Did you look at the scan. The blast hits the moon instantly in one panel. When it was animated the same thing occurred. .
Originally posted by carver9
[QUOTE=11217476]Originally posted by Csdabest
[B]Cosidering That Special beam canon reached the moon. Rather quickly before the rediclous transformation and trainning buffs. I would have to say that they are in the vacinity of Lightspeed to a degree. But not actually lightspeed or faster than it. [/QUOTEThat was during the beginning of dbz when raditz dodged that light speed attack. Goku during the vegeta saga>>>>>>>>>raditz with speed.
That was an error that was only in the American dub. The manga just had Picollo being surprised how fast he was.
Goku should be able to dodge that attack with ease during the saiyan saga. Light speed aint shit to dbz. How many time have we seen dragonball z character outrace a beam
Yeah - ki beams, which are different than light beams.
and if we was to use the anime, hell goku turned to light during his fight with cell. Yep he actually turned into light due to him moving so fast. [/B]
Um, no?
Where was that ever stated? Or are you basing it on a special effect?
We are just going to disagree, there is almost never any specific timeframe given for anything in the manga. If thats the case there would be no point in arguing any of this period. I didn't say every blast was going that fast, but we've seen their charged beams move like that repeatedly.
I have dozens of scans of normal humans reacting and perceiving ki blasts.
IT is good for fighting or teleportation, he can use it instantly without fingers. Like I said you can't tell when Goku is using it or not in a fight because the only way to tell he's using IT when not going far is if he puts his fingers on his head which he has shown he does not have to do.
So you just assume he's using it, despite the fact that they've been doing that flashy disappearing and afterimage stuff since early Dragonball, and IT is specifically noted by the characters themselves to be different?
I said some of their blasts do and some of them can at least in bursts. but Its hard to prove anything with the manga period, it rarely fleshes things out 100% and rarely uses narration bubbles. Most all of it is up for interpretation. Did you look at the scan. The blast hits the moon instantly in one panel. When it was animated the same thing occurred. .
And that was the only time it ever moved that fast in the entire manga, there are many feats showing blasts moving much slower. Outlier.
