The Strongest Jedi&sith Ever

Started by Lightsnake21 pages

Anakin, I believed, trained Galen in Shien.

I missed this.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Obi-Wan wouldn't have a prayer against Sidious, but Lucien just because Mace knew Shatterpoint and Vapaad doesn't make him more powerful.
I never said it did, did I?

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Can you show some evidence that Anakin knew Shien?

Revenge of the Sith:
Skywalker's Shien ready-stance had been a ruse, as had his Ataro gymnastics; the boy was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen. His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while also defending against a second attacker.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

But back to Obi-Wan, the reason Dooku pawned him was because he lost [Obi-Wan] lost his objectivity. He had to deal with the battle droids and then re-engage Dooku. Dooku had the clear advantage. Sure Obi-Wan didn't want to fight Anakin/Vader, but Anakin had become Sith.

Dooku pwn Obi Wan, because Obi Wan lost his objectivity? What? How does dealing with battle droids demolish objectivity? Do you know what objectivity means?

Also: not wanting to fight Anakin/Vader would be more damaging to objectivity than would destroying droids.

Now that we have established... whatever it was that you were trying to say, how 'bouts we talk about what "losing objectivity" would mean.

I got nothing. Are you trying to throw out Obi-Wan's defeat of Anakin on Mustafar? That won't work... Anakin was just as (if not more so) mind F'ed (in the A) as Obi Wan was.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Anyway, stepping off the platform would have been stupid. His lower body would have caught on fire.

The implication was that Anakin would step onto Obi Wan's flotation device or that Anakin would just step onto the beach. The acrobatics are what F'ed him up.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

He should have caught Obi-Wan off guard like Maul did - hitting him a FP and then resuming the battle.

He tried that. Obi Wan matched his Force push exactly. Sabers appeared to be the only way to resolve the conflict.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

But Obi-Wan was smart by gaining the high ground he had the superior advantage. Gideon pointed out to me that Force mastery was superior than a midichlorian count. Obi-Wan clearly had far superior Force mastery than Anakin/Vader.

This is all true. That's... great.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

But whose to say how strong Anakin/Vader would have been if he didn't become the man in life support black armor?

Quite frankly it does not matter.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Mace clearly didn't have the same Force mastery vs Sidious/Palpatine. Neither did Yoda which is surprising - the strongest Jedi Master other than Luke. But Obi-Wan had a stronger Force mastery because of his connection to the living Force.

k

Can you show some evidence that Anakin knew Shien? But back to Obi-Wan, the reason Dooku pawned him was because he lost [Obi-Wan] lost his objectivity. He had to deal with the battle droids and then re-engage Dooku. Dooku had the clear advantage. Sure Obi-Wan didn't want to fight Anakin/Vader, but Anakin had become Sith.

1. It's stated in the RotS novelization, and IIRC, it's mentioned in the TFU novelization.

2. What? What are you talking about? Obi-Wan lost his objectivity because he was dealing with the battle droids? Dooku was in the middle of dueling Anakin at the time. How on earth did Dooku have an advantage when he was fighting a powerful Jedi, and Obi-Wan was cutting down a duo of battle droids? And he disabled Obi-Wan after he'd joined Anakin in the fight again, meaning that Obi-Wan's attention was now focused on him.

Anyway, stepping off the platform would have been stupid. His lower body would have caught on fire. He should have caught Obi-Wan off guard like Maul did - hitting him a FP and then resuming the battle. But Obi-Wan was smart by gaining the high ground he had the superior advantage. Gideon pointed out to me that Force mastery was superior than a midichlorian count. Obi-Wan clearly had far superior Force mastery than Anakin/Vader. But whose to say how strong Anakin/Vader would have been if he didn't become the man in life support black armor?

I was rather clearly referring to the two times that he attempted to jump over Obi-Wan (One successful, one a failure) when he simply could have stepped forward on to the platform or the bank of the river. And despite the line, the "high ground" is most definitely not an advantage in a duel with blades of any kind. In fact, it makes it harder to defend yourself from an oponent, as it's more difficult to strike and defend from that position.

And personally, I find it very difficult to believe that Obi-Wan had greater Force mastery. When they both used Force Push and were flung across the room, Anakin recovered more quickly. Anakin has shown greater feats of power in the EU as well. The reason Anakin lost because he stupidly attempted to leap over Obi-Wan when he was that high up (Which is just about the only way that the "high ground" is actually an advantage in a battle like that).

Kenobi is good, but he's definitely not top tier.

My mistake - didn't realize I'd make so many people angry. Thank's for the evidence too. If Anakin was smart, he would have FJ to Obi-Wan's left flank. Trying to get over him [Obi-Wan] was an absurd tactical error. Gaining the high ground is a lot better Vin - you have the momentum of having downward control while your opponent has to struggle upwards swinging wildly saber attacks.

Red - objectivity/objective = goal. Obi-Wan's objective was to destroy Dooku right? But the Force enhanced kick introduced as a quote Lucien's favorite movies - chaos. Obi-Wan while to carve through the battle droids while Anakin was engaging Dooku alone. Dooku had the clear advantage because the Jedi Master didn't have the proper amount of time to re-engage and counterattack.

On to Obi-Wan vs Anakin/Vader. Obi-Wan lost his sight of objectivity because he still thought he was fighting his best friend or rather as he put it "my brother." Obi-Wan's objective was to kill Vader, but he couldn't seperate Anakin from Vader. I hope I worded that properly.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Obi-Wan while to carve through the battle droids while Anakin was engaging Dooku alone.
Which took all of five seconds.

Dooku had the clear advantage because the Jedi Master didn't have the proper amount of time to reengage and counterattack.
Obi-Wan did reengage and counterattack, and he did so while the Count was being driven back by Skywalker's assault; if anyone was at a disadvantage there, it was Dooku.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
My mistake - didn't realize I'd make so many people angry. Thank's for the evidence too.

We are not angry. You are just wrong. There is a difference.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

If Anakin was smart, he would have FJ to Obi-Wan's left flank. Trying to get over him [Obi-Wan] was an absurd tactical error.

k
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Gaining the high ground is a lot better Vin - you have the momentum of having downward control while your opponent has to struggle upwards swinging wildly saber attacks.

In a sword fight the relative elevation is largely irrelevant, especially when the sabers don't have weight (to amplify the force of the swing with gravity's pull). Being below someone allows you to attack at unexpected angles and gives you less of a target to defend. Kenobi couldn't hit Anakin's leg if he simply charged up the slope...
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Red - objectivity/objective = goal.

Objective:
–noun
1. something that one's efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish; purpose; goal; target: the objective of a military attack; the objective of a fund-raising drive.
Objectivity:
–noun
1. the state or quality of being objective: He tries to maintain objectivity in his judgment.
They are not the same thing. You can understand why we were confused. I'm not saying that your argument was sound, but at least it wasn't gibberish.
[EDIT: What the hell is wrong with Dictionary.com? All of the words in the definition linked to another article/entry!]
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Obi-Wan's objective was to destroy Dooku right? But the Force enhanced kick introduced as a quote Lucien's favorite movies - chaos. Obi-Wan while to carve through the battle droids while Anakin was engaging Dooku alone. Dooku had the clear advantage because the Jedi Master didn't have the proper amount of time to re-engage and counterattack.

Pursuing an objective =/= mindlessly pounding away at a goal: destroying the droids allowed Dooku to be captured/killed. Ignoring them would have endangered the mission. They were just a side-quest on the way to kill Dooku. (Kind of. You get the point.)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

On to Obi-Wan vs Anakin/Vader. Obi-Wan lost his sight of objectivity because he still thought he was fighting his best friend or rather as he put it "my brother."

That may be true but the novel states quite clearly that Kenobi 'let go' of his connection to Anakin and by extension regained his objectivity (and his clear-headed conventional fighting style.)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Obi-Wan's objective was to kill Vader, but he couldn't seperate Anakin from Vader. I hope I worded that properly.

You did.

Initially he wasn't willing to kill Vader. Later on he decides to be a Jedi and releases his attachment to Skywalker. (Allowing him to kill Vader.)

Good rebuttal Red. When I meant downward angle is that it is harder to go up, than to go down. Anakin/Vader if he was able to reengage Obi-Wan would have to be winded because of his struggle to get back on his feet.

Jacen Solo

Re: The Strongest Jedi&sith Ever

Originally posted by BOOG
3.MACE WINDU-LETS FACE IT BAMF BAD ASS MOTHER ****ER HES THE ONLY BAD ASS ACTING GANGSTA-PIMP JEDI THERE IS WITH HIS PURPLE SABER..AND LETS NOT FORGET HE ****ED SIDIOUS UP BADLEY AND MADE HIM LOOK THAT WAY AND IVE READ MANY TIMES THAT ON ALL KINDS OF SIGHTS THAT HE IS ONE OF THE BADDEST SABER FIGHTERS EVER AND SOME SAY HES EQUAL TO YODAS POWER AND POSSIBLY THE MOST FEARED JEDI BECAUSE HES RUTHLESS,ALSO I READ THE STYLE OF FIGHTING HE USES CAN ONLY BE BEAT BY THE SAME STYLE WITCH NO ONE ELSE USES...

Despite the amount of people that have flamed the thread creator, i think this is pretty valid. He's a master of Vaapad, a fighting style associated with agresstion and the sith, yet he still manages to stay to the light and focused. Possibly the strongest and willfully minded Jedi in excistence.

As for sith, it's a bit harder, unless you read a hell of a lot of the extended universe there's few sith you can really claim to be the best. Though, personally I like Darth Krayt, but that's personal opinion. He's an ex-jedi from the clone wars, and he's still alive over 130 years after as the dark lord of the sith. And he has a sense of honour, like the sith of old.

Lol wut? No one disagreed with his position. Mace is good. He is among the greats of the saga. What we 'flamed' BOOG for was his startling ignorance of the English language and the lack of coherence in his posts. He labeled all of his picks 'BAMF's despite the fact that if everyone is a 'bad ass mother****er' it ceases to become a defining attribute.

Boog was dumb, but he wasn't wrong about Mace.

Originally posted by JesterTheFool
Samuel L. Jackson is number 1 he destryoys the hulk

After he transforms into Mace "BMF" Windu of course.