Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Its because you said you were an atheist. lol
I am.
We might take an approach that Bertrand Russell did, which (this is heavily paraphrased) was talking about different types of atheists as having differing worldviews depending on their upbringing. So a formerly Catholic atheist would likely have a different approach to atheism than, say, a lifelong atheist. Or a formerly Jewish atheist. Etc. etc. Which makes sense, despite their shared beliefs.
I take it you mean it in that sense, which is fine. If you mean that I still retain Catholic beliefs because I was once Catholic (devoutly so, at one point) then no. But the former interpretation is fairly rational, and somewhat encapsulates the sociological aspect of it.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I am.We might take an approach that Bertrand Russell did, which (this is heavily paraphrased) was talking about different types of atheists as having differing worldviews depending on their upbringing. So a formerly Catholic atheist would likely have a different approach to atheism than, say, a lifelong atheist. Or a formerly Jewish atheist. Etc. etc. Which makes sense, despite their shared beliefs.
I take it you mean it in that sense, which is fine. If you mean that I still retain Catholic beliefs because I was once Catholic (devoutly so, at one point) then no. But the former interpretation is fairly rational, and somewhat encapsulates the sociological aspect of it.
Do you perhaps feel that your Catholicism has had an effect on your world view, which might be very different if you had been raised a Calvinist or so...?
(Just out of interest.)
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Do you perhaps feel that your Catholicism has had an effect on your world view?(Just out of interest.)
Hard to answer. No, in the sense that I hold pretty much none of my former beliefs. None, in fact, that I can think of. And certainly none that are at or near the core of Catholicism.
But yes in the sense that my sense of social propriety and morality stems partly from Catholicism. Though I hesitate to say even that, because there's not much discernible difference between the morality of myself and, say, the morality of my friends who were out-of-the-womb atheists. Which leads me to believe it's more social conditioning than religious conditioning.
I no longer justify actions (or condemn them) based on Christian morals, but it's likely that my intrinsic determining of what is "right and wrong" is partly due to Catholic upbringing. "Right and wrong" would exist anyway for most people, but it would likely be a different set of standards depending o how I was raised.
I don't begrudge my upbringing, btw. It was great. The friends and experiences were awesome, as was the spiritual aspect of it. And religion provided the backdrop for it.
The fact that I no longer believe any of it, and am happy about that fact, doesn't change the fact that Catholicism was fairly good to me.
But I feel lucky to have been on both sides. I know what it feels like to be in love with God, Jesus, feel loved back, and feel the "blessings" of religion through community and prayer. Which gives me perspective on just how intoxicating religion can be, and what it means to some people, and why the atheist cries for "logic" often fall on deaf ears.
Don't let that fool you. I'm fairly militantly atheist (though not abrasively so, I hope), and feel religion to be a greater net "bad" than "good." But I understand it, and why it exists in such a strong form.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I don't begrudge my upbringing, btw. It was great. The friends and experiences were awesome, as was the spiritual aspect of it. And religion provided the backdrop for it.The fact that I no longer believe any of it, and am happy about that fact, doesn't change the fact that Catholicism was fairly good to me.
But I feel lucky to have been on both sides. I know what it feels like to be in love with God, Jesus, feel loved back, and feel the "blessings" of religion through community and prayer. Which gives me perspective on just how intoxicating religion can be, and what it means to some people, and why the atheist cries for "logic" often fall on deaf ears.
Don't let that fool you. I'm fairly militantly atheist (though not abrasively so, I hope), and feel religion to be a greater net "bad" than "good." But I understand it, and why it exists in such a strong form.
Whats worse, it will never go away.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Atheist if I want to shock a person. "Non-religious" if I don't want them to stereotype me right away. But atheist for our purposes, since I don't need to mince words on the internet....which is indicative in and of itself. I have to temper my response to "what religion are you?" in order to avoid being stereotyped and mistrusted. This isn't always the case, since many people couldn't care less, but it's also not just paranoia...the surprise, confusion, and occasional negativity I've received as a result of my answer has been very real.
Like I said earlier, discrimination isn't as intense as against some other groups (jews, blacks, etc.) but might very well exist in more total people, albeit in a milder form.
I.....I was just curious.
I understand what you're saying and I agree that discrimination against Atheists might not be as intense. Polls however say otherwise, but from experience I would say that the negativity is minor. Some people would disagree. Again, I guess it depends where you live. In california being gay is the norm wheras somewhere like texas which is heavily religious being gay might pose a problem.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
I.....I was just curious.I understand what you're saying and I agree that discrimination against Atheists might not be as intense. Polls however say otherwise, but from experience I would say that the negativity is minor. Some people would disagree. Again, I guess it depends where you live. In california being gay is the norm wheras somewhere like texas which is heavily religious being gay might pose a problem.
Same with atheism generally. Being around cities helps, even in the south, where there is a larger concentration of both atheist and gay than in rural areas.
And your words reinforce my point, so we're in agreement. Minor negativity, but it exists in more people. And I've heard allusions to the polls you mentioned. Haven't seen the results myself, but apparently atheists are just a small notch above Satanists and such in terms of public trust.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
I.....I was just curious.I understand what you're saying and I agree that discrimination against Atheists might not be as intense. Polls however say otherwise, but from experience I would say that the negativity is minor. Some people would disagree. Again, I guess it depends where you live. In california being gay is the norm wheras somewhere like texas which is heavily religious being gay might pose a problem.
And is that wrong?
Originally posted by DigiMark007
What won't? Religion? Or my upbringing?I'm fine with both. Once you're happy with both yourself and your beliefs (I am) what happens with things you can't control generally isn't much of a concern.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hopefully he doesn't mean that they should just go somewhere where they aren't discriminated against. That would be a callous answer to an unfortunately beleaguered group of people.
Actually, what I meant is: is discrimination against homosexuals wrong? If so why.
(I know why I believe its wrong, I can probably guess why he thinks its wrong too, however I would like to know his explicit reasoning behind the idea that discrimination against homosexuals is wrong.)