Originally posted by Kotor3
No one is stating that Yoda could not do a lot of things to Dooku however you are missing the point. You stated that he counter Dooku's attack with ease. My example was to show that he did not. Simply put Yoda's battle with Dooku was far from easy.Yoda wanted to capture Dooku and it would be logical that he would have simply overpowered Dooku with the force as he did Ventress so that he could have capture him. Yoda could not simply restrain Dooku with force and it led to a all out battle.
If Exar Kun is superior to Dooku in force abilities which I believe he is, then he definitely has a chance in defeating Yoda in a force battle.
No i think you are missing the point. Yoda did not even try to over power, or restrain Dooku with the force. All he did was counter all of Dooku's powers. The only thing he tried to attack Dooku with was Dooku's own lightning, other than that he was just throwing off all Dooku's attack's.
The burden is on you to prove that Kun is superior to Dooku in the force. Kun is definately not superior to Sidious in the force, and Sidious was not able to defeat Yoda.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No i think you are missing the point. Yoda did not even try to over power, or restrain Dooku with the force. All he did was counter all of Dooku's powers. The only thing he tried to attack Dooku with was Dooku's own lightning, other than that he was just throwing off all Dooku's attack's.The burden is on you to prove that Kun is superior to Dooku in the force. Kun is definately not superior to Sidious in the force, and Sidious was not able to defeat Yoda.
If I am missing the point Sidious 66 please tell me are you getting the non-effort or not trying part on Yoda from the novel or your interpretation of the movie scene?
You have stated that Yoda was able to easily counter Dooku's force attacks. Now you stated Yoda did not try to restrain Dooku or overpower him. Base on what?
What is clear is that Yoda was superior in force and saber combat and did not want to kill Dooku but capture him. Yoda had ample time to restrain and capture Dooku but did not. Never was Dooku's saber out of his hand. Dooku ran when it was obvious he could not win. According to your logic Yoda simply wasted time with Dooku by making no effort at all to capture.
So you are not confused, I am not arguing that Yoda is superior in the force to Kun or that he could win. I pose the question is Dooku superior to Kun in force abilities. You want to make it seem that Kun like Dooku would be a easy win for Yoda but you have not made a good argument.
Originally posted by Kotor3
If I am missing the point Sidious 66 please tell me are you getting the non-effort or not trying part on Yoda from the novel or your interpretation of the movie scene?You have stated that Yoda was able to easily counter Dooku's force attacks. Now you stated Yoda did not try to restrain Dooku or overpower him. Base on what?
What is clear is that Yoda was superior in force and saber combat and did not want to kill Dooku but capture him. Yoda had ample time to restrain and capture Dooku but did not. Never was Dooku's saber out of his hand. Dooku ran when it was obvious he could not win. According to your logic Yoda simply wasted time with Dooku by making no effort at all to capture.
So you are not confused, I am not arguing that Yoda is superior in the force to Kun or that he could win. I pose the question is Dooku superior to Kun in force abilities. You want to make it seem that Kun like Dooku would be a easy win for Yoda but you have not made a good argument.
Maybe Yoda did not counter Dooku's force attacks with ease, but that doesn't mean it was extremely difficult. Did you once see Yoda attack Dooku with the force, other that throwing Dooku's own lightning back at him? When Dooku threw machinery at Yoda, did you see Yoda throw any back? Did you see Yoda try to disable Dooku with a force throw?
So my question to you is, how did Yoda try to over power or restrain Dooku with the force?
You are the one who said Kun was superior to Dooku, so you are the one who should prove it.
Originally posted by EnyalusA.) That's pretty cool and impressive, but not much of a guage of Force-prowess. At least in combat terms. Unless Exar can do the same to Yoda while he's fighting him, it won't help him.
As a 4,000 year old spirit, Kun separates Luke's soul from his body and Force chokes multiple Jedi Knights at the Praxeum at once...
B.) For all intents and purposes, they were Jedi apprentices. Even Luke couldn't be placed at Yoda's level at the time.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maybe Yoda did not counter Dooku's force attacks with ease, but that doesn't mean it was extremely difficult. Did you once see Yoda attack Dooku with the force, other that throwing Dooku's own lightning back at him? When Dooku threw machinery at Yoda, did you see Yoda throw any back? Did you see Yoda try to disable Dooku with a force throw?So my question to you is, how did Yoda try to over power or restrain Dooku with the force?
You are the one who said Kun was superior to Dooku, so you are the one who should prove it.
Maybe I missed it, when did I say Kun was superior to Dooku. I did ask the question to you and others. I also stated that if he is superior then he has a definite chance at defeating Yoda in pure force combat.
In my personal opinion I would believe Kun is in the force department because I believe his feats are greater than Dooku in the force department.
Now as for how Yoda fought Dooku he did engage Dooku in saber combat. Maybe it was bad writing but the movie and novel support the fact the Yoda wanted to capture Dooku. No where does it state according to my knowledge that Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.
That is all I have to go off Sidious 66. Since Yoda did not resort to force attacks on Dooku we really do not know how effective in would have been on Dooku. Yes I do say Yoda would win against Dooku but we ease I doubt. He definitely had to work hard when engaging in saber combat.
That leaves open the one of the original questions I ask before do you feel that Kun is superior in the force department? If not then ok no need to explain why you feel so.
Originally posted by Tangible God
A.) That's pretty cool and impressive, but not much of a guage of Force-prowess. At least in combat terms. Unless Exar can do the same to Yoda while he's fighting him, it won't help him.B.) For all intents and purposes, they were Jedi apprentices. Even Luke couldn't be placed at Yoda's level at the time.
Which version of Luke was this?
Originally posted by Kotor3
Maybe I missed it, when did I say Kun was superior to Dooku. I did ask the question to you and others. I also stated that if he is superior then he has a definite chance at defeating Yoda in pure force combat.In my personal opinion I would believe Kun is in the force department because I believe his feats are greater than Dooku in the force department.
Now as for how Yoda fought Dooku he did engage Dooku in saber combat. Maybe it was bad writing but the movie and novel support the fact the Yoda wanted to capture Dooku. No where does it state according to my knowledge that Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.
That is all I have to go off Sidious 66. Since Yoda did not resort to force attacks on Dooku we really do not know how effective in would have been on Dooku. Yes I do say Yoda would win against Dooku but we ease I doubt. He definitely had to work hard when engaging in saber combat.
That leaves open the one of the original questions I ask before do you feel that Kun is superior in the force department? If not then ok no need to explain why you feel so.
I never said Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.
Kun is very powerful in the force. Imo Dooku and Kun are close. However i say Dooku has shown more with the the force as far as combat. Dooku has telekenetically ripped heavy machinery from walls, used the force to disable several different powerful force users, such as Obi Wan, Ventress, Quinlan Vos, and Sora Bulq.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Sorry for the multiple post.Sidious 66 one more thing I forgot to mention:
Dooku did not become scared when Yoda counter all his force attacks instead he simply said that this fight cannot be won from our knowledge of the force and then took out his saber. Quite different from the coward Sidious.
And what does this prove?
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I never said Yoda did not want to capture Dooku.
This is purely an opinion base assumption that has no backing. The fact that Yoda felt it was important to capture Dooku to end the war would dictate that he would try his best to do so. The same logic could be used in the Dooku vs Obi Wan and Anakin duel in which he clearly was the superior but to say it took no effort would be an definite incorrect statement which I sure you could agree with.
We have seen what domination is such as what Yoda and Dooku did to Ventress.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Kun is very powerful in the force. Imo Dooku and Kun are close. However i say Dooku has shown more with the the force as far as combat. Dooku has telekenetically ripped heavy machinery from walls, used the force to disable several different powerful force users, such as Obi Wan, Ventress, Quinlan Vos, and Sora Bulq.
Ok, I respect your opinion on this. I feel differently because the feats you mention below I believe Exar Kun could done as effectively but I do not believe Dooku could resist a force server and kill a Jedi master immediately. I also do not believe as a spirit he could have had the impact that Kun did on Luke and his apprentices.
As for what your other statement as to what is proven, is that Dooku was never in fear of Yoda due to force abilities until he saw that he could not win in a saber combat. That is when he fled. Point of the conversation is Dooku is a match for Yoda. So would Kun be and I believe an even more dangerous opponent.
Originally posted by Kotor3
I am aware of what you said Sidious 66. This conversation started based on what you implied about the no effort part on Yoda when in his duel with Dooku. If I am understanding correctly you are stating that Yoda did not capture Dooku because he put no effort into it.This is purely an opinion base assumption that has no backing. The fact that Yoda felt it was important to capture Dooku to end the war would dictate that he would try his best to do so. The same logic could be used in the Dooku vs Obi Wan and Anakin duel in which he clearly was the superior but to say it took no effort would be an definite incorrect statement which I sure you could agree with.
We have seen what domination is such as what Yoda and Dooku did to Ventress.
Ok, I respect your opinion on this. I feel differently because the feats you mention below I believe Exar Kun could done as effectively but I do not believe Dooku could resist a force server and kill a Jedi master immediately. I also do not believe as a spirit he could have had the impact that Kun did on Luke and his apprentices.
As for what your other statement as to what is proven, is that Dooku was never in fear of Yoda due to force abilities until he saw that he could not win in a saber combat. That is when he fled. Point of the conversation is Dooku is a match for Yoda. So would Kun be and I believe an even more dangerous opponent.
The arguement about whether Yoda countered Dooku's lightning with ease or not, was over long ago. Faunus Quoted me the passage, and i dropped the claim.
You keep implying Yoda tried his best to capture Dooku, based on Yoda saying he wanted Dooku capture. What Yoda did and said are two different things. You keep saying i am wrong when i said Yoda did not try to use the force to overpower, or restrain Dooku, even though you have not proven this.
Originally posted by Tangible God
A.) That's pretty cool and impressive, but not much of a guage of Force-prowess. At least in combat terms. Unless Exar can do the same to Yoda while he's fighting him, it won't help him.B.) For all intents and purposes, they were Jedi apprentices. Even Luke couldn't be placed at Yoda's level at the time.
A.) Maybe Exar will wave his hand and kill Yoda as he does Odan-Urr? 😛
B.) This is Luke after he disabled an army of battle droids, tanked AT-AT blasts with his Force shields and solo'd the thing, and defeated DE Sidious in saber combat...While Yoda couldn't manage to best the far weaker ROTS version of Palpatine.
Mace Windu's done it.
B.) This is Luke after he disabled an army of battle droids,
tanked AT-AT blasts with his Force shields and solo'd the thing,Starkiller's done it, and he was "no match" for an OT-era Emperor's power.
and defeated DE Sidious in saber combat...It's not that simple. While I'm not sure exactly what Leia did for him, he didn't win that fight under his own power alone. In fact, when he'd challenged the newly resurrected Palpatine earlier, he was quickly disarmed and floored.
While Yoda couldn't manage to best the far weaker ROTS version of Palpatine."Far" weaker?
And Yoda was, in my opinion, the superior warrior of the two as of RotS, although Palpatine certainly fought smarter. The script directly states that he disarmed the Sith Lord - which isn't in the movie, but isn't contradicted by it either - and he was powerful enough to take a full-power blast of lightning with his bare hands and force it back towards his enemy while in a terrible position; the new Emperor was situated right in the middle of the Senate pod, but Yoda was grasping onto the metal edge with his feet.
Personally, I don't think any but a roughly NJO-era Luke could solidly defeat him in a fight.
Originally posted by Faunus
Mace Windu's done it.
Starkiller's done it, and he was "no match" for an OT-era Emperor's power.
It's not that simple. While I'm not sure exactly what Leia did for him, he didn't win that fight under his own power alone. In fact, when he'd challenged the newly resurrected Palpatine earlier, he was quickly disarmed and floored.
"Far" weaker?And Yoda was, in my opinion, the superior warrior of the two as of RotS, although Palpatine certainly fought smarter. The script directly states that he disarmed the Sith Lord - which isn't in the movie, but isn't contradicted by it either - and he was powerful enough to take a full-power blast of lightning with his bare hands and force it back towards his enemy while in a terrible position; the new Emperor was situated right in the middle of the Senate pod, but Yoda was grasping onto the metal edge with his feet.
Personally, I don't think any but a roughly NJO-era Luke could solidly defeat him in a fight.
Confused, who's the 'him' here? Palpatine or Yoda?
I'll agree, as Yoda's Ataru was WAY more suited to a duel in the scenario.