Old Republic Vs. Yuzzan Vong

Originally posted by Gideon
Except that LoE says that only half of the original Grand Army was still in fighting form. So your contention is that 1.5 million troopers is enough to contend with the Galactic Empire, New Republic, Confederacy, and Vong in terms of size.

Really, Glentract, for such a logistics nut, what the hell are you doing arguing this?

I'm not saying that it would have been able to keep pace with the GE, New Republic, or the Vong. The CIS, yes, (lol since it obviously did). Later in my post I showed why I feel that both the Traviss quote and the GG quote aren't all that relevant and showed why I feel that the Clone Army probably numbered at 50 billion minimum to a maximum size of about 300 billion.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
It still would have been one of the largest in history without increasing from it's Clone Wars size. Three million clone troopers, plus several thousand ships puts them above bascially any government besides the GE, New Republic, CIS (which had a bigger army), and the Vong. Top five, not bad.

Notice that my numbers estimate that there is a million Republic systems, which is generous given that the CIS has like half of them.

Because far from every planet ever had a battle on it.

BTW, Karen Traviss is a canon source to, at least as much as Dooku. YOU do not pick and chose which canon you want to follow.

No, quadrillions of clones is a totally ridiculous number also. Also, if you're going to take Coruscant as the norm (and I'd like to see your source for a billion clones being there) then you're argument is totally flawed. Coruscant would be a ridiculous extreme.

Lets take the Battle of Praestlyn as an example. There was 50,000 Republic troops there. If the Clone Wars touched every single planet in the Republic and every battle had 50,000 troops, then that would mean that there was 50 BILLION Clones. In otherwords, less than one thousandth of the ridiculous numbers you're claiming.

You take it up with canon. Traviss said 3 million. Because we have conflicting statements, we have to apply some logic. And logic says that they number in the billions.

I never contested that fact.

A unit would probably be a trooper. Can you give good reason for an alternate definition? If it was, say, a battalion, then that puts the number of clones into the billions, which is what I would have guessed.

However, the number of cloning facilities isn't numbered in the millions, which is the minimum necessary to produce trillions or quadrillions of Clones.

I'm not saying that there were only three million. I am saying that if you want to disregard one quote you need to disregard another and instead use logic to figure it out. You can't pick and choose canon the way Mizukage wants to.

As I already have shown, if Battle's the size of Praestlyn happened on every planet in the Republic, the number of necessary clones would have been 50 billion. Even if we take the number used at Geonosis and assume that every world had battles that large, then it numbers four times that (50,000 as opposed to 192,000) which means right about 200 billion Clones who have seen action, with maybe another fifty percent still in reserve. That'd put the high end number of clones in the 300 BILLION range.

Try addressing my arguments point by point, thanks.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
There are two C-canon sources that say there are quintillions of battledroids, Karen Traviss is a single C-Canon source, if even I'd put her at S-Canon, but w/e she is one C-canon source. Dooku's 100 to 1 quote is T-Canon it is from the Clone Wars series, two C-Canon sources + T-Canon quote>>>>>>>Karen Traviss.
Remember there were also droids protecting, and operating the CIS' massive navy, remember millions of warships. Oh and there were clones also guarding worlds. Remember the hundred to one figure is reasonable, unless you wish to suggest every clone has a kill ration upwards of a hundred, a thousand clones for one droids is as far as I would say

Erm?
There are sources listing the kill count of several Clone Troopers to 2000+ confirmed kills. Yet, if you take out one of the control ships, you have ten thousands of battle droids completely useless and disabled. Aside of that, the Republic had the Jedi Knights, who are shown to take out rediculous amounts of droids on their own.

If you would take a look at the background action in the arena fight on Geonosis, you could see that some of the Jedi are in 10vs1 situations with Battle Droids...and they actually survive that.

Aside of that you have the population of planets forced under the control of the CIS but being loyal with the Republic. Just think about Kashyyk and the Wookies. That's an entire race of additional combatants. The same is true for the Mon Calamari, the Gungans on Naboo in TPM, the Koruunai etc.

So you really can't just go out and "compare the numbers" here. Because the numbers we have for the Republic forces don't factor in:

a) The Clone Commandos, which are pretty damn good.
b) Mercenaries, spies, planetary armies or security forces, militia forces

And that aside you still have the Jedi who, in some situations, take it up with entire armies on their own [Yoda, Windu]. As far as I recall, Mace takes over Haruun Kal with the support of one capital ships company of Clone Troopers [about 6,000 Soldiers] and the aid of the planetary forces. If 6,000 Soldiers are enough for a Jedi General to take over a planet, I don't see them having much trouble to defend the Republic with just a few million Clones.

Edit:

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Yuuzahn Vong primary ship, the Miid Ro'ik is more powerful than a ISD in a fight. The ISD is FAR more powerful than a Venator. Miid Ro'im would literall tear Venator's to shreads. To demonstrate,

Well, Glentract. The Kuat Drive Yard sector defence did consists of quite a lot of Star Dreadnaughts, which were - basically - a little weaker than the later Executor-class ships. So they have quite some firepower around, even in PT era times.

Aside of that: They do still have an army of 10,000 Jedi Knights, which - by far - exceeds the NJO when it comes down to manpower. This aside from the local troops that the millions of planets are having around.

So Nai, are you saying that you think the Old Republic could take the Vong? Yes, the Republic had Star Dreadnaughts, but they were VERY limited in number, and I doubt able to defeat the worldships, some of which are almost as big as the first Death Star (120km).

Just to reiterate, I doubt very much the Old Republic would stand a chance against the Yuuzhan Vong.

Ok, for reason's sake lets say there were a trillion clones. Ok, at Geonosis alone there were some ten thousand clone Commandos, at one battle. Honestly the sector defense fleets+the Republic armada+ten thousand Jedi+Yoda+Mace=crispy vong

but there weren't a trillion clones. no matter how much you reason it thus. so no, we can't just assume that.

Originally posted by truejedi
but there weren't a trillion clones. no matter how much you reason it thus. so no, we can't just assume that.

ignore canon all you want. At the end of the day, all you will be is wrong.

not ignoring I'm to lazy to type my arguments again so w/e

i know, i know M Yoda, it IS logical. It just isn't true. sadly.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ok, for reason's sake lets say there were a trillion clones. Ok, at Geonosis alone there were some ten thousand clone Commandos, at one battle. Honestly the sector defense fleets+the Republic armada+ten thousand Jedi+Yoda+Mace=crispy vong

Wow, no, you're just being ridiculous. The Old Republic technology is just not good enough to give them a chance against the Vong.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Would you prefer quadrillions. Your choice ok. 💃

Till then, as illogical as it may seem, 3 million remains canon. Soooooo... who's a dead Republic? Who's a dead Republic? That's right! The Galactic Republic is a dead Republic. Good boy! Who's a clever member of the forums? Who obeys canon? Good boy!

Ok fine, its not possible for there to be three million clones. There were 3.2 million at Munnillist, and at the same time as Munnilist at the very least the Battles of Dantooine, Mon Calamari and Hypori were occurring.There goes your canon figure

now wait a minute: The battle of muunilinst (is that what you were referring to?) is from the clone wars cartoons. Where is your source from the clone wars cartoons that says 3.2 million clones? I watched them. I don't remember numbers EVER being discussed.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Muunilinst

bleah, Mizukage. the SOURCE. Wikiapedia is good for letting you know what you can find elsewhere. I wonder WHERE that is shown, so i can figure out if it is a higher source of canon than Karen Traviss. Right now, Wookipedia by itself is a decidely lower source than Traviss.

besides: your "source" starts with the word IF.

"If these ships were Acclamator-class assault ships and were filled to their maximum specifications as would be expected, at least 3.2 million clone troopers would have been deployed to the battle."

Considering we know, that there COULD NOT HAVE BEEN more than 3 million clones, this IF statement is never realized. Skips on to the else.... i can see something like this:

NUMCLONES=3.0million

If(totalclones>=NUMCLONES)
{
ships=Acclamatorclassships;
populationofbattle=3.2million;
}

else
{
ships!=Acclamatorships;
populationofclones<=NUMCLONES

}
//Cannon Rules!!!

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Ok fine, its not possible for there to be three million clones. There were 3.2 million at Munnillist, and at the same time as Munnilist at the very least the Battles of Dantooine, Mon Calamari and Hypori were occurring.There goes your canon figure

So if there was 3.2 million at Munnillist, which was one of the largest battles of the war, that puts the total number probably somewhere under a billion. Looks like your arguments are still shit.

Dude, Mizukage I know your trying to argue reason here, but in SW, reason and logic don't exist...