Originally posted by SurturI'm sorry, but you're not making a very good argument. You're basically saying Hulk wins because he's the hulk.
Of course he is thats why he explained that Hulk has beaten powerful telepaths.
Originally posted by Surtur
To say Flash couldn't put the hulk down tells me you have no idea just how powerful he is.
CIS?
The Hulk would lose to a good majority of the JLA one on one.
He couldn't do a damned thing to Martian Manhunter. Wondy's Lasso would tie him up before he could blink. Superman is Superman. Flash can make him a living statue or hit him with a million Imps. It's just far too easy for him to face them all at once.
Originally posted by fangirl101
The Hulk would lose to a good majority of the JLA one on one.He couldn't do a damned thing to Martian Manhunter.
Hulk can see intangible beings and (I think) is capable of striking them. MM wouldn't be able to do anything to WWH, either. Telepathy won't work. What's he going to do? Phase into Hulk and crush his heart? It'll heal. Fast. And WWH is physically stronger.
MM wasn't faring too well against BA in World War III.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Wondy's Lasso would tie him up before he could blink.
I agree. But she has a lot of CIS moments, and so I think if she doesn't use that tactic, she'd lose, too.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Superman is Superman.
Naturally....no, I'm kidding. I think Supes takes down WWH for a small majority, too. Worldbreaker Hulk, I'd give the edge to him.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Flash can make him a living statue or hit him with a million Imps. It's just far too easy for him to face them all at once.
Stealing his speed has yet to be proven. Hulk's speed isn't regulated by the Speed Force. There's no proof Flash would be able to steal it. And you do recall Flash blitzing and hitting Konvikt repeatedly before Konvikt could react. He shrugged it off, stomped, and downed Flash. Hulk would do the same. Or thunderclap and put him down. I think Flash gets wrecked for sure one-on-one.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Hulk can see intangible beings and (I think) is capable of striking them. MM wouldn't be able to do anything to WWH, either. Telepathy won't work. What's he going to do? Phase into Hulk and crush his heart? It'll heal. Fast. And WWH is physically stronger.MM wasn't faring too well against BA in World War III.
I agree. But she has a lot of CIS moments, and so I think if she doesn't use that tactic, she'd lose, too.
[/b]
Naturally....no, I'm kidding. I think Supes takes down WWH for a small majority, too. Worldbreaker Hulk, I'd give the edge to him.
Stealing his speed has yet to be proven. Hulk's speed isn't regulated by the Speed Force. There's no proof Flash would be able to steal it. And you do recall Flash blitzing and hitting Konvikt repeatedly before Konvikt could react. He shrugged it off, stomped, and downed Flash. Hulk would do the same. Or thunderclap and put him down. I think Flash gets wrecked for sure one-on-one. [/B]
"MM wasn't faring too well against BA in World War III."
B.A was a monster...
-First of all, WWH can't even fly and once MM goes intangible and flying, theres nothing WWH can do.
-MM can fly up and goe intangible than mind rape anyone who doesnt have major TP resistance
-Supes can KO, speed blitz and fry or freeze anyone but WWH right of the start.
-Flash can blitz anyone but WWH also.
-Supes could speed blitz and BFR WWH.
Thats just 3 people from the team.
This is a easy fight for JLA.
Originally posted by EnyalusThe Speed Force regulates all speed in the DCU. Who has he stolen speed from who wasn't connected to it?
No, it regulates all the speed of those connected to it. Superman, Black Adam, etc. do not tap into the speed-force for their speed.
He's stolen speed from supes before and cheetah as well off the topi of my head, even Jay Garrick has stolen speed from supes before, and Black Adam. Flash has even stolen speed from inanimate objects.
Flash can also lend speed, and yes he can lend it to those not connected to the speed force.
Well...okay. But I dunno why you'd specify that. 😛 Considering the match is WWH and not base Hulk.
To give an idea of how strong Supes is.
Naw, you're missing my point. Yeah he uses superspeed. But to say he won't get tagged by Hulk because he's using it is fallicious, because like you said - Flash has been tagged by plenty of people who lack super speed.
They use super-speed quite often. The flash especially. It isn't drastically out of character for Supes to use super-speed, especially if his friends are in danger.
As for the flash, it's a bit of a stretch if you're gonna say Flash can't take the hulk down because he's been hit by people who lack speed. If superman and flash blitzed every villain right away, comics would be over in 2 pages.
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No, I agree. But Supes used his superspeed against other bricks before as well. DD, Grundy, The General, Konvikt. All of them still managed to hit and hurt him. [/QUOTE]
Considering other times Supes has casually used his speed to avoid bricks like Lobo, Mongul, and even Doomsday, I tend to say Grundy and others hitting a speeding superman is poor writing. Writers don't always capture Supermans speed correctly. One instance he was trying to save a baby, so he hooks up some tech to himself to allow him to move his fastest without hurting the baby. Yet, someone caught up to him in a friggin FIGHTER jet. Tell me that makes any sense?
Besides this, the OHOTMU 2004 confirms that the Hulk has superspeed.
Eh, the handbook makes a lot of dubious claims. Can you name even one bullet timing feat for the hulk?
She's been rocked by typical bricks before. WWH isn't typical. He's got combat skills and military strategy experience from his time on Sakaar. And he's got superspeed. Not on par with Diana or Supes or MM, but enough to hit them and hit them hard. As he does to Sentry.
I'll agree that WW doesn't use her speed nearly as much as Supes or Flash. But again: Hulk is quick for his size, that isn't super-speed. If you have actual speed feats for him..by all means list them.
Regarding your argument about MM using his psychic abilites on Hulk - it won't work. He's resisted those attacks from from Xemnu, Cable, Professor Phobos and Professor Xavier.
I said he would use them on the warbound. I'm fully aware of the hulk's resistance to telepathy. J'onn has other options in beating the hulk.
Can you prove me wrong or give me some examples? If so, I'll concede the point and the JLA's work just got a lot easier.
I gave you examples above.
John also got WTFpwned by Konvikt. And none of the GLs did well against Superboy/man Prime. I realize that Prime is above WWH in power, but in physical strength, durability, and resistance...they're about equal.
Yet other times John's GL shields were strong enough to shrug off attacks that would of even hurt Superman. You're going by their low end showings.
As for WWH being equal to Prime, based off of what evidence? Prime is a confirmed planet mover, hulk is not. Hulk might have some insane regen, but he isn't anywhere near as durable as normal Supes, let alone Primes. Same for resistances, hulk being resistant to telepathy doesn't make him more overall resistant. Simply being kryptonian makes prime resistant to a large amount of things, including low level telepaths. Plus Prime himself, dude ate some friggin uranium and all he said was "yum"
The only thing equal about the characters is that they are both horribly written.
He took a step and nearly destroyed the entire east coast of the US. He was literally glowing from the amount of gamma he was putting out. Nearly any DC brick would've gotten wrecked by him - especially any on the JLA.
Which doesn't translate into him being a planet buster. Superman has shaken the ENTIRE planet with the force of his punches. He almost knocked the moon out of orbit by pounding inside the watchtower. When the moon was falling towards Earth Superman got the last and longest shift of holding it back, by himself. When you think about it, WWH isn't even physically superior to Supes. Destroying an entire east coast isn't superior to shaking the entire planet.
As for saying people in the JLA would get wrecked by him? Some would, but people like Supes and MM? Doubtful. Superman for instance has survived beatings from people physically stronger than him(and WWH) and not been completely owned. Yeah he felt the punches, but he wasn't wrecked.
MM has some nice durability plus he can shapeshift into a substance so hard that etrigan hurts himself by punching it. Keep in mind Etrigan is near Superman in terms of physical strength, able to casually *****-slap Superman to the moon.
Also I will point out that no, Hulk can't affect intangible beings. He can see people in their astral forms, he might be able to see intangible beings, but he definitely cannot touch them.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Some points. Flash doesn't need to steal speed from people who are connected to the speed force. he's taken speed from superman and wonder woman to amp his own and both are NOT connected to the speed force.
....The Speed Force regulates all speed in the DCU. Flash is able to steal the speed from anyone who uses superspeed, because the Speed Force controls it. This is fact.
Irrelevant Example: Flash isn't able to steal Zoom's speed, for instance, because he doesn't move at superspeed. He taps into the timestream itself. But just about anyone else in the DCU, yeah, he'd be able to steal their speed.
Hulk isn't subject to that because he comes from the MU. I think it'd be like a reverse JLA/Avengers crossover, when Flash went to the MU and was losing his speed because there was no Speed Force. Hulk comes from a place that the Speed Force doesn't exist yet still has superspeed. I doubt Flash's technique would work.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Flash also won't use the Imp around regular people. It's far too dangers. the JLA was fighting in a city when Konvict showed up. There are no people around in a KMC forum fight.
This is a good point. I can't see one IMP doing much of anything to him though. Didn't it only manage to knock a White Martian on it's ass? If he can do a ton of them in quick succession, I agree - Flash would win. But that's assuming Hulk doesn't simply clap or stomp (sounds like a bad dance.)
Originally posted by fangirl101
MM's telepathy is superior to anyone on Marvel earth's.
That can't be proven, so please refrain some using it. And Xemnu wasn't a telepath from Earth. He was an extraterrestrial. Hulk still showed absolute resistance.
Originally posted by fangirl101
And BA in ww3 had an amp. And his face still Got melted by martian vision.
I was under the impression that BA was simply really, really pissed off. It doesn't say he has an amp in the arc. Does it say so in one of the issues after?
Yeah, as has been pointed out by others..Black Adam during WW3 not only did he add Isis's power to his own, but the gods that empower him were giving him more power.
Yet, Adam even at his normal power levels is far beyond the hulk. Dude was able to survive them opening up a tesseract inside his head, and can charge up his magical lightning to the point where its potent enough to stun the Spectre.
So J'onn not doing well against BA really isn't a bad thing.
Originally posted by Enyalus....The Speed Force regulates all speed in the DCU. Flash is able to steal the speed from anyone who uses superspeed, because the Speed Force controls it. This is fact.
No, it does not. Superman does NOT get his speed from the speed force, neither does Black Adam or Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman.
So, flash WILL be speed stealing hulk.
Irrelevant Example: Flash isn't able to steal Zoom's speed, for instance, because he doesn't move at superspeed. He taps into the timestream itself. But just about anyone else in the DCU, yeah, he'd be able to steal their speed.
Why even bring this up? Zoom's powers work on a different scale, and not only that..he's more powerful than the flash. Zoom himself being able to solo the JLA. This is a guy who can cause sonic booms by simply snapping his fingers. Flash had to absorb the speed of 2-3 other speedsters to be able to defeat Zoom, before that he couldn't even see him. Also the speed steal most likely didn't work on Zoom because himself can steal and lend speed(he gave inertia back his speed after flash had slowed him down to the point where it would take him a century just to blink)
Hulk isn't subject to that because he comes from the MU. I think it'd be like a reverse JLA/Avengers crossover, when Flash went to the MU and was losing his speed because there was no Speed Force. Hulk comes from a place that the Speed Force doesn't exist yet still has superspeed. I doubt Flash's technique would work.
You're grasping at straws here, big time. When characters from different franchises are facing off, I assume they are fighting on a neutral ground where both their powers work. I mean you ask me to provide you of examples of him stealing people not connected to the speedforce, and I do, then u say it won't work because its a different universe? Come on now.
This is a good point. I can't see one IMP doing much of anything to him though. Didn't it only manage to knock a White Martian on it's ass? If he can do a ton of them in quick succession, I agree - Flash would win. But that's assuming Hulk doesn't simply clap or stomp (sounds like a bad dance.)
It knocked the white martian into ORBIT. He can do as many of them as he pleases without getting tired. Even if hulk survives one IMP, its going to knock him across the planet. As for him clapping? flash could vibrate himself intangible to avoid those attacks, but it would never come to that.
That can't be proven, so please refrain some using it. And Xemnu wasn't a telepath from Earth. He was an extraterrestrial. Hulk still showed absolute resistance.
What he said isn't true, Xavier and Cable rival MM in terms of mental powers. Certain versions of Cable would own MM in a telepathic battle.
I was under the impression that BA was simply really, really pissed off. It doesn't say he has an amp in the arc. Does it say so in one of the issues after? [/B]
Yes it does. Not only did he add Isis's power back to his own, but Captain Marvel confirmed the gods were making him stronger than normal.
Originally posted by Surtur
No, it does not. Superman does NOT get his speed from the speed force, neither does Black Adam or Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman.So, flash WILL be speed stealing hulk.
Why even bring this up? Zoom's powers work on a different scale, and not only that..he's more powerful than the flash. Zoom himself being able to solo the JLA. Flash had to absorb the speed of 2-3 other speedsters to be able to defeat Zoom, before that he couldn't even see him.
You're grasping at straws here, big time. When characters from different franchises are facing off, I assume they are fighting on a neutral ground where both their powers work.
It knocked the white martian into ORBIT. He can do as many of them as he pleases without getting tired. Even if hulk survives one IMP, its going to knock him across the planet. As for him clapping? Hulk could vibrate himself intangible to avoid those attacks, but it would never come to that.
What he said isn't true, Xavier and Cable rival MM in terms of mental powers.
Yes it does. Not only did he add Isis's power back to his own, but Captain Marvel confirmed the gods were making him stronger than normal.
Okay. I concede this entire argument. Flash should be able to solo WWH, if written without CIS.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Hell no. When Cable contacts the minds of God's let me know. Check the MM respect thread.
You do realize I'm talking about the strongest versions of Cable? Whom you are obviously blissfully unaware of if you think MM would own him.
Plus the term "god" is relative, it's not like he mindscrewed the spectre or something. Humans consider Superman to be a god, but compared to actual gods..he isn't one. Or look at Dragonball Z, they said Kami was god of the earth, and supreme kai was god of the universe, yet neither of them are more powerful than Goku or someone like Superman.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Hell no. When Cable contacts the minds of God's let me know. Check the MM respect thread.