Originally posted by EnyalusFlash can only steal the speed from anything which is regulated by the Speed Force. Since Hulk and company are not native to the DC Universe, there's no guarantee that would work.
Flash has stolen speed from people who aren't connected to the speed force plenty of times, hell he's stolen speed from inanimate objects. He won't have trouble doing so to the hulk.
I'm not entirely sure the first part is true.
You'll notice I said he starts out stronger than a baseline calm Hulk. WWH is anything but calm.
World War Hulk is the strongest incarnation of Hulk. I'd put him at least around Supes level - either just below or just above. But really, this whole "too fast" argument is bull. Superman has been tagged by Solomon Grundy, Doomsday, Wade Eiling as The General, and Konvikt just to name a few bricks.
Flash has been tagged by plenty of people who lack super-speed as well. Do we now say that his speed is bull?
Supes has shown on a consistent basis he is able to use super-speed, to say he won't use it against the hulk is basically handi-capping him. A win over Superman who isn't using his powers to their fullest extent..well, that isn't really much of a win at all.
Not as strong as Superman, and thus probably weaker than WWH. The speed issue was already addressed. I can see her using her lasso on him to great effect, though.
Just because she's been tagged by those without super-speed doesn't magically erase all the times shes moved and reacted at super-speed. As I said, I'm talking about a competent JLA who don't stand around and forget their powers.
"Supes-lite" I'd say, as he's not as strong as Clark or Diana. But I agree, intangibility would be an issue.
Well no, he isn't dead even with Supes in terms of physical stats, but he's close enough.
I've addressed the speed steal issue. I think the rest of the Warbound would get wrecked by Superman and Diana. I do see them taking down Batman, Hawkgirl, and perhaps John Stewart, though.
You were wrong about the speed steal, tho. You don't need to be connected to the speed-force to have the speed steal work.
I agree Batman and Hawkgirl are pretty much non-factors, but a GL could also wreck hulk and his crew, they're basically silver surfer-lites.
Like I said before, I see the JLA winning. However, I keep forgetting about Worldbreaker Hulk. Because if he gets to that stage, I see the JLA and the entire planet in serious trouble.
Worldbreaker hulk is just a description, we didn't actually see him break the world. Superman on the other hand has caused the planet itself to shake from the sheer force of his punches.
'Cause Hulk and Supes are already comparable in strength, yet Worldbreaker seemed to dwarf WWH in power. His healing factor/defense was great enough in his WWH form to barely get cut by Wolverine's adamantium claws, regenerate his eyes in seconds, and regenerate half of his chest in seconds. His strength speaks for itself - being able to hold a planet together and shift its tectonic plates prior to his upgrade. Yet Worldbreaker Hulk was even a tier above that. And given the JLA's problems regarding putting down Solomon Grundy, Eiling, and Konvikt...if it gets to that stage, I can't see Hulk losing. [/B]
The JLA have problems putting down those people mainly because they fight stupidly and forget most of their powers.
Think of it like the first Superman vs Doomsday fight. Supes has super-speed, flight, heat vision...yet he uses none of those, and proceeds to get in a fist fight with Doomsday? That's just plain retarded.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah....I think so but somebody is arguing that certain JLA members could solo.....I think thats going too far.
So tell me, name some stuff the warbound has done that make them so ungodly powerful?
You still didn't address how they'd get around the speed steal.
As I said before, a competent flash could easily solo hulk and warbound. Hell a competent flash could solo the original 7 JLA members. His speed is just that ridiculous, and with his other speed tricks to boot? Flash is damn uber. This is a guy who at his strongest, can evacuate a city of half a million people in half a second while only carrying two people at a time. Who is so fast that when a bridge begins to collapse he can run the library and learn how to rebuild said bridge, and then actually re-build it before it collapses. Who is fast enough to outrun death itself to the end of time. Who is fast enough to dodge bullets by simply feeling the tips of the bullets on his skin and reacting accordingly.
WWH was one of he worst titles of Marvel i ever read!!!
I will NEVER understand how a simply superstrong character, even if it's the strongest there is, can win against people like Richards, Stark, Xavier, Frost or Strange.
It was Hulk's title and so it was clear he had to dominate it, but that was only possible because the writers completely ignored the true and established power potentials of nearly all of Hulk's opponents.
So without toning anyones powers in the JLA down, it will be Hulk and the warbound who will go down ... BADLY, that is!!!
Originally posted by wannabe
WWH was one of he worst titles of Marvel i ever read!!!I will NEVER understand how a simply superstrong character, even if it's the strongest there is, can win against people like Richards, Stark, Xavier, Frost or Strange.
It was Hulk's title and so it was clear he had to dominate it, but that was only possible because the writers completely ignored the true and established power potentials of nearly all of Hulk's opponents.
So without toning anyones powers in the JLA down, it will be Hulk and the warbound who will go down ... BADLY, that is!!!
You know whats sad? They are doing the exact same thing with Red Hulk. They had him knocking out a watcher, which are low-level cosmic beings. Adding insult to injury not only did they have him defeat a version of Thor who is more powerful than normal, but he was able to friggin lift his hammer. When you consider normal Thor when he gets sierious and doesn't try to fist-fight hulk can take hulk down with a single lightning bolt..you begin to see just how horribly written these characters are.
They already have plenty of uber characters: Sentry, Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Vulcan to name only a few.. I don't see why they need to try so hard to make hulk so damn powerful, especially at the expense of the quality of the story.
Hulk would take down Hawkgirl, Batman, and Martian Manhunter like they weren't even there. Wonder Woman would be a little harder but he could tear her in half if he wanted to. Flash is insanely fast so he'd have a difficult time catching him, but his attacks would merely annoy Hulk. Suoerman is the biggest threat here, but he isn't sundipped or amped at all so Hulk could take him. If WWH is taking them one on one successively he clears it with a lot of difficulty at Supes, and a team battle could go either way, 5/10.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Hulk would take down Hawkgirl, Batman, and Martian Manhunter like they weren't even there. Wonder Woman would be a little harder but he could tear her in half if he wanted to. Flash is insanely fast so he'd have a difficult time catching him, but his attacks would merely annoy Hulk. Suoerman is the biggest threat here, but he isn't sundipped or amped at all so Hulk could take him. If WWH is taking them one on one successively he clears it with a lot of difficulty at Supes, and a team battle could go either way, 5/10.
So going by this Sentry is apparently more powerful than the entire JLA
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Hulk would take down Hawkgirl, Batman, and Martian Manhunter like they weren't even there. Wonder Woman would be a little harder but he could tear her in half if he wanted to. Flash is insanely fast so he'd have a difficult time catching him, but his attacks would merely annoy Hulk. Suoerman is the biggest threat here, but he isn't sundipped or amped at all so Hulk could take him. If WWH is taking them one on one successively he clears it with a lot of difficulty at Supes, and a team battle could go either way, 5/10.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Hulk would take down Hawkgirl, Batman, and Martian Manhunter like they weren't even there.
I agree about hawkgirl and batman, but Martian Manhunter? Not on his best day.
Wonder Woman would be a little harder but he could tear her in half if he wanted to.
Considering Supes pretty casually busted her wrist by simply squeezing down he probably could tear her in half, but he would never get the chance.
Flash is insanely fast so he'd have a difficult time catching him, but his attacks would merely annoy Hulk.
Getting hit thousands of times at many times the speed of light, hulk is going to ignore that? Especially when the same attack is knocking white martians clear into orbit? I have a hard time believing that.
Suoerman is the biggest threat here, but he isn't sundipped or amped at all so Hulk could take him. If WWH is taking them one on one successively he clears it with a lot of difficulty at Supes, and a team battle could go either way, 5/10.
Superman sundipping would be overkill.
WWH did absolutely nothing to show he could take down people like flash, supes, a GL, or MM.
I will possibly give you wonder woman as she doesnt use her super-speed nearly as much as supes and flash, but still.
Originally posted by Surtur
Flash has stolen speed from people who aren't connected to the speed force plenty of times. He won't have trouble doing so to the hulk.
The Speed Force regulates all speed in the DCU. Who has he stolen speed from who wasn't connected to it?
Originally posted by Surtur
You'll notice I said he starts out stronger than a baseline calm Hulk. WWH is anything but calm.
Well...okay. But I dunno why you'd specify that. 😛 Considering the match is WWH and not base Hulk.
Originally posted by Surtur
Flash has been tagged by plenty of people who lack super-speed as well. Do we now say that his speed is bull?
Naw, you're missing my point. Yeah he uses superspeed. But to say he won't get tagged by Hulk because he's using it is fallicious, because like you said - Flash has been tagged by plenty of people who lack super speed.
Originally posted by Surtur
Supes has shown on a consistent basis he is able to use super-speed, to say he won't use it against the hulk is basically handi-capping him. A win over Superman who isn't using his powers to their fullest extent..well, that isn't really much of a win at all.
No, I agree. But Supes used his superspeed against other bricks before as well. DD, Grundy, The General, Konvikt. All of them still managed to hit and hurt him. Besides this, the OHOTMU 2004 confirms that the Hulk has superspeed.
Originally posted by Surtur
Just because she's been tagged by those without super-speed doesn't magically erase all the times shes moved and reacted at super-speed. As I said, I'm talking about a competent JLA who don't stand around and forget their powers.
She's been rocked by typical bricks before. WWH isn't typical. He's got combat skills and military strategy experience from his time on Sakaar. And he's got superspeed. Not on par with Diana or Supes or MM, but enough to hit them and hit them hard. As he does to Sentry.
Originally posted by Surtur
Well no, he isn't dead even with Supes in terms of physical stats, but he's close enough.
Regarding your argument about MM using his psychic abilites on Hulk - it won't work. He's resisted those attacks from from Xemnu, Cable, Professor Phobos and Professor Xavier.
Originally posted by Surtur
You were wrong about the speed steal, tho. You don't need to be connected to the speed-force to have the speed steal work.
Can you prove me wrong or give me some examples? If so, I'll concede the point and the JLA's work just got a lot easier.
Originally posted by Surtur
I agree Batman and Hawkgirl are pretty much non-factors, but a GL could also wreck hulk and his crew, they're basically silver surfer-lites.
John also got WTFpwned by Konvikt. And none of the GLs did well against Superboy/man Prime. I realize that Prime is above WWH in power, but in physical strength, durability, and resistance...they're about equal.
Originally posted by Surtur
Worldbreaker hulk is just a description, we didn't actually see him break the world.
He took a step and nearly destroyed the entire east coast of the US. He was literally glowing from the amount of gamma he was putting out. Nearly any DC brick would've gotten wrecked by him - especially any on the JLA.
Originally posted by Surtur
The JLA have problems putting down those people mainly because they fight stupidly and forget most of their powers.Think of it like the first Superman vs Doomsday fight. Supes has super-speed, flight, heat vision...yet he uses none of those, and proceeds to get in a fist fight with Doomsday? That's just plain retarded.
True. But, this is an in-character fight.
So going by this Sentry is apparently more powerful than the entire JLA
All but Superman.
I agree about hawkgirl and batman, but Martian Manhunter? Not on his best day.
MM isn't nearly as strong as Hulk or durable enough to tank his hits, and telepathy is all but useless against WWH.
Considering Supes pretty casually busted her wrist he probably could tear her in half, but he would never get the chance.
She's fast, but not too fast for the Hulk. He has faced opponents like the Surfer before, who is faster than WW or even Supes, and managed to get hits in.
Getting hit thousands of times at many times the speed of light, hulk is going to ignore that? Especially when the same attack is knocking white martians clear into orbit? I have a hard time believing that.
It'd be comparable to having fingers tapped on you hard at a fast pace. It would annoy him, but not cause any long term damage.
Superman sundipping would be overkill.WWH did absolutely nothing to show he could take down people like flash, supes, a GL, or MM.
I will possibly give you wonder woman as she doesnt use her super-speed nearly as much as supes and flash, but still.
The problem is that he's aready beaten telepaths and telekinetics in WWH easily, Flash couldn't do anything to put him down, and Superman is comparable to Sentry, who he beat.
Originally posted by Surtur
You know whats sad? They are doing the exact same thing with Red Hulk. They had him knocking out a watcher, which are low-level cosmic beings. Adding insult to injury not only did they have him defeat a version of Thor who is more powerful than normal, but he was able to friggin lift his hammer. When you consider normal Thor when he gets sierious and doesn't try to fist-fight hulk can take hulk down with a single lightning bolt..you begin to see just how horribly written these characters are.They already have plenty of uber characters: Sentry, Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Vulcan to name only a few.. I don't see why they need to try so hard to make hulk so damn powerful, especially at the expense of the quality of the story.
Thankfully i refused to invest any money into bying those stupid Rulk titles after the WWH-desaster. ✅
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
All but Superman.
Actually, Sentry is more powerful than even Superman.
MM isn't nearly as strong as Hulk or durable enough to tank his hits, and telepathy is all but useless against WWH.
He doesn't need to be as strong or as durable. Nor does he need to use telepathy. He could phase through the hulks brain. Hell he could toss the hulk into the sun if he felt like it.
She's fast, but not too fast for the Hulk. He has faced opponents like the Surfer before, who is faster than WW or even Supes, and managed to get hits in.
If you're suggesting that the hulk could actually hit surfer when he's actively using his speed, that is just damn silly. Just because you hit someone with super-speed doesn't mean you have super-speed yourself. Name me one feat where Hulk even shows bullet time speed.
It'd be comparable to having fingers tapped on you hard at a fast pace. It would annoy him, but not cause any long term damage.
Your evidence for this claim is..what exactly? Do you have any idea how much force an object moving at the speed of light would hit you with?
The problem is that he's aready beaten telepaths and telekinetics in WWH easily, Flash couldn't do anything to put him down, and Superman is comparable to Sentry, who he beat.
I'm sorry, but you're not making a very good argument. You're basically saying Hulk wins because he's the hulk.
To say Flash couldn't put the hulk down tells me you have no idea just how powerful he is.