Originally posted by truejediKas'im was completely protected from Bane's attack by his Force-barrier; I don't know how you missed that. The wave carried over into the temple's foundations, which then caused the structure to collapse onto Kas'im, presumably killing him.
Ka'sim's force defense wasn't enough to save him from a force shove by bane, so mace would hold a clear advantage there.
Originally posted by Faunus
Kas'im was completely protected from Bane's attack by his Force-barrier; I don't know how you missed that. The wave carried over into the temple's foundations, which then caused the structure to collapse onto Kas'im, presumably killing him.
My Master speaks the truth. Kas'im's force shield protected him from Bane's TK...it did not protect the temple around him, however, and the whole thing collapsed on his dome-piece. (Yeah, I'm hood. Wut!?)
In addition to mastering every form, Kas'im is best and deadliest with Jar'Kai. From PoD we learn that two separate lightsabers are always more lethal and dangerous than one, because there are so many more possibilities to defend against, overloading a Jedi's precog, etc. So, I think Kas'im would take sabers for a majority - either 6/7 out of 10. He loses in the Force, though, and I'd say either ties in the all out or gets beaten, taking 4/10.
I'm honestly of the unprovable opinion that the desperate blast by Bane at least knocked Kas'im to the ground with his wind gone because Mr. 'Crosses a room to open a door before the second knock; really shouldn't be standing there as the temple is about to fall.
Still, I'd put Kas'im equal to Mace in sabers, maybe a bit lesser...and En, there's no real advantage to two separate blades, Kas'im just made sure he always had an advantage.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm honestly of the unprovable opinion that the desperate blast by Bane at least knocked Kas'im to the ground with his wind gone because Mr. 'Crosses a room to open a door before the second knock; really shouldn't be standing there as the temple is about to fall.
CIS. Definitely.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Still, I'd put Kas'im equal to Mace in sabers, maybe a bit lesser...and En, there's no real advantage to two separate blades, Kas'im just made sure he always had an advantage.
Kas'im said there is. He mentions that a double-bladed lightsaber is actually more limited than a single blade, but because of it being two blades and a unique style, most people think it gives more options when you actually have less. Same with Githany's laser-whip - much more limited than a single blade, but unique enough to be dangerous. I believe he says that Jar'Kai, though, is more dangerous than a single blade because of there being genuinely more options and each blade being able to move independantly.
there's no real advantage to two separate blades,
Kas'im just made sure he always had an advantage.
How is it that two blades is simultaneously 'no real advantage' and enough of an advantage to overpower Bane? I just don't see it.
This would imply that Kas'im had an advantage other that using two blades. As far as I know, he did nothing other than activate his second saber, without employing any new force technique. Bane simply couldn't keep up with the new permutations of attack- he was overwhelmed.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Not really accurate, Red. Bane was overwhelmed because Jar'Kai was unfamiliar to him. He didn't know the sequences at all.For what its worth, I think he still would've defeated Bane had Bane been familiar with Jar'Kai.
Really? I didn't know that. I thought that Bane had opted out of training with Jar'kai. Wouldn't his rudimentary training give him some sort of defense?
I had forgotten that he hadn't sparred frequently with that style. I'd say that was enough of an advantage for Kas'im- is that why he didn't use the style? To maintain a last resort edge?
Originally posted by EnyalusCIS. Definitely.
Kas'im said there is. He mentions that a double-bladed lightsaber is actually more limited than a single blade, but because of it being two blades and a unique style, most people think it gives more options when you actually have less. Same with Githany's laser-whip - much more limited than a single blade, but unique enough to be dangerous. I believe he says that Jar'Kai, though, is more dangerous than a single blade because of there being genuinely more options and each blade being able to move independantly. [/B]
Red:
Kas'im didn't use it because he likely felt his skills with a DBL would be enough to take down any other opponent. He 'kept the advantage' with Jar'Kai because he made sure no student knew anything about it, allowing him an edge via a form they'd have no idea how to fight.
Red:
Kas'im didn't use it because he likely felt his skills with a DBL would be enough to take down any other opponent. He 'kept the advantage' with Jar'Kai because he made sure no student knew anything about it, allowing him an edge via a form they'd have no idea how to fight.
Good to know. Maybe it's time for a re-read of PoD.
Actually i take back my earlier admission that Kas'im would beat mace. I must've been smoking something the other day.
mace beat the most powerful sith lord of all time. In one-on-one even combat... Kasi'm was MAYBE according to BANE the greatest duelist in that era, but obviously not so, because Bane was stronger than he. And Sidious > Bane. And mace beat sidious. So bull-crap. what was i thinking? I'm going back to post this here...
no, it would be over far more quickly. Mace bested sidious. Sidious is the GREATEST SITH LORD OF ALL TIME.
Kas'im, in his one duel, dies to Bane. Kas'im, is not nearly as strong in the force as sidious. Not even worth mentioning in the same sentence really. B/C he's not in Bane's league either.
Mace beat this guy. When B is sufficiently greater than C, i think and ABC argument is perfectly warranted, and in this case, B >>>>>>C .
Originally posted by truejedi
no, it would be over far more quickly. Mace bested sidious. Sidious is the GREATEST SITH LORD OF ALL TIME.
Kas'im, in his one duel, dies to Bane. Kas'im, is not nearly as strong in the force as sidious. Not even worth mentioning in the same sentence really. B/C he's not in Bane's league either.
Originally posted by truejedi
Mace beat this guy. When B is sufficiently greater than C, i think and ABC argument is perfectly warranted, and in this case, B >>>>>>C .
he would still have his vapaad though... there is some misconception, that since mace is "only good with vapaad" then he isn't really that good with sabers.... But that is ridiculous. Its like saying Kenobi isn't really that good with sabers because he is only good at soresu.
Mace is as good as shown against sidious. period. He's going to be fast enough to counter anything Kas'im will throw at him as well. That just follows. If you put Kas'im above Mace, you are putting him on level of sidious. Could Kasi'm beat Yoda? Sidious?
Mace is on that level.
Originally posted by Enyalus
And the only reason Windu had a chance in that fight was due to his Vaapad emulating Sidious' speed. And even then he needed his shatterpoint to get the win in sabers.I doubt Kas'im uses speed enough to outclass Mace, and thus there's not really anything there worth emulating.
I actually argued that because Kas'im doesn't use the same level of Force Speed as Sidious, Vapaad would be less effective- the superconducting loop finding less 'traction' as it were.
Also, just to expound on my ideas in a vacuum:
Kas'im's skill > Mace's skill. Juyo only requires mastery of SOME of the forms- not all. We can be sure that he had not mastered Soresu to the same degree as Kenobi.
I'd say that Kas'im's technical skill may even outclass Dooku's.
EDIT To ADRESS TJ:
he would still have his vapaad though... there is some misconception, that since mace is "only good with vapaad" then he isn't really that good with sabers.... But that is ridiculous. Its like saying Kenobi isn't really that good with sabers because he is only good at soresu.
Mace is as good as shown against sidious. period. He's going to be fast enough to counter anything Kas'im will throw at him as well. That just follows. If you put Kas'im above Mace, you are putting him on level of sidious. Could Kasi'm beat Yoda? Sidious?
Only he is not always as fast as Sidious, because some of Mace's speed was Sidious's own power thrown back at him. Vapaad will not have as much 'dark power' to throw back in Kas'im's face.