Originally posted by zopzop
@JynocidusPrimal Monitor is above the LT, Presence, Abstracts, etc.. in power. The entire DC multiverse was an insignificant germ to him/her/it :
EDIT :
Fixed Link
and i disagree that LT is below monitor. LT is equity, that alone makes him PM's equal. PM is not omnipotent, it's just separate from DCU from what I gather. Since it's not TOAA I still say LT stomps
Originally posted by JynocidusIceman doesn't ever debate. He just gives his opinion without supporting it. He argues by baseless opinions.
i can no longer debate with you seriously. for you to continue to separate continuities as omniverse(s) is starting to annoy me. that alone says you fail to comprehend, but i'll continue.Presence is not on a higher anything than the LT. Presence associates with Heaven and Hell, he is "god" and there is an opposite to it (GEB?). On top of that, PM is also separate from Presence. So it's not one with everything, if there are not one, but TWO other entities separate from it.
TOAA does not associate with Heaven or Hell, at least so far that we know of. Instead, we have beings like Fulcrum, Celestials, Mephisto -- all beings on separate sides of that Positive/Negative representation. IMO, that's where the Presence would be if the companies merged.
As for the PM? Even if you write him as some weird abstract anomaly that monitors existence, it's significance is not higher than the LT. Why? TOAA's representation (the writer) must have made it a necessity to put it there. And since LT only serves TOAA, guess who that puts him above as far as significance? You guessed it, the PM folks!
Who is PM going to draw power from, what place to beat LT? If PM is omnipotent, he doesn't need to draw power from anywhere. he wouldn't need TOAA, he would BE the TOAA. he's/it's not though. LT isn't TOAA either, he is the trinity. What is PM? PM doesn't all encompass anything, it can't even all encompass its continuity.
Originally posted by JynocidusLOL his equity isn't overriding a "TRUE" supreme being in a neutral setting. Neutral I'm sure if you read the rules you would understand.
and i disagree that LT is below monitor. LT is equity, that alone makes him PM's equal. PM is not omnipotent, it's just separate from DCU from what I gather. Since it's not TOAA I still say LT stomps
Originally posted by quanchi112Oh you still trolling the thread isn't about iceman if you read Final Crisis or owned it like i do you would know my claims are anything but baseless go back to your bridge
Iceman doesn't ever debate. He just gives his opinion without supporting it. He argues by baseless opinions.
Originally posted by zopzop👆
@JynocidusPrimal Monitor is above the LT, Presence, Abstracts, etc.. in power. The entire DC multiverse was an insignificant germ to him/her/it :
EDIT :
Fixed Link
Originally posted by Jynocidus
and i disagree that LT is below monitor. LT is equity, that alone makes him PM's equal. PM is not omnipotent, it's just separate from DCU from what I gather. Since it's not TOAA I still say LT stomps
Do you remember how Secret Wars I and II went down? A being who was the embodiment of a universe MILLIONS of times larger than 616 multiverse became aware of the 616 multiverse and decided to investigate. This being was more powerful than any of the abstracts, even the LT. This being was the Beyonder.
Almost the EXACT same thing occurred with the Primal Monitor and the mainstream DC multiverse.
Originally posted by iceman24567I did read Final Crisis and the two Superman tie ins. You argued you can have two supreme beings. You don't even know what the word supreme even means. I have actually debated battlezones you have never debated in your life. You're a germ to me.
Oh you still trolling the thread isn't about iceman if you read Final Crisis or owned it like i do you would know my claims are anything but baseless go back to your bridge
👆
i'm looking at the scan that zop posted, and this makes me wonder...
now that I think of it, I was reading somewhere about Marvel having 2 megaverses. The standard Marvel verse that we know, that has all the different versions of 616, then a completely unrelated "New Universe"
and I'll go out on a limb and say that they're both as small as the DC Multiverse is to the PM when LT looks at them. Yeah, I think LT is that big.
one interpretation that i'll steer away from, is that PM is a writer. I'm going to assume PM is another fictional character unless I'm shown some proof otherwise, because fighting those character vs writer battles is frustrating let alone pointless -- but I'd still say every writer does what is necessary because we all do.
and yes iceman, i'm aware of the rules ever since my one thread got closed due to your lack of comprehending the aspect of supremacy. In a neutral setting (if PM is a fictional character, i'll assume), PM and LT can square off and LT will win because only 1/3 of his embodiment, yes, is equal to PM. The other 2/3's seal PM's defeat
Originally posted by quanchi112That wasn't my argument i specified what the Presence was meant be the supreme being of what i said was true Final Crisis just made a more supreme being similar to pre retcon beyonder. Point is your a scumbag
I did read Final Crisis and the two Superman tie ins. You argued you can have two supreme beings. You don't even know what the word supreme even means. I have actually debated battlezones you have never debated in your life. You're a germ to me.
Originally posted by JynocidusGood for you i disagree based on what the scans show to each his own
i'm looking at the scan that zop posted, and this makes me wonder...now that I think of it, I was reading somewhere about Marvel having 2 megaverses. The standard Marvel verse that we know, that has all the different versions of 616, then a completely unrelated "New Universe"
and I'll go out on a limb and say that they're both as small as the DC Multiverse is to the PM when LT looks at them. Yeah, I think LT is that big.
one interpretation that i'll steer away from, is that PM is a writer. I'm going to assume PM is another fictional character unless I'm shown some proof otherwise, because fighting those character vs writer battles is frustrating let alone pointless -- but I'd still say every writer does what is necessary because we all do.
and yes iceman, i'm aware of the rules ever since my one thread got closed due to your lack of comprehending the aspect of supremacy. In a neutral setting (if PM is a fictional character, i'll assume), PM and LT can square off and LT will win because only 1/3 of his embodiment, yes, is equal to PM. The other 2/3's seal PM's defeat
Originally posted by iceman24567So if Final Crisis made a more supreme being you believe the Primal Monitor is supreme and not the Presence. Only you would say more supreme. I can see why you try to steer clear of independent thought. Scary stuff.
That wasn't my argument i specified what the Presence was meant be the supreme being of what i said was true Final Crisis just made a more supreme being similar to pre retcon beyonder. Point is your a scumbag
Originally posted by quanchi112You saying companies can't retcon things in comics? Thats what it is mr scumbag it happens all the time 😐
So if Final Crisis made a more supreme being you believe the Primal Monitor is supreme and not the Presence. Only you would say more supreme. I can see why you try to steer clear of independent thought. Scary stuff.
Originally posted by iceman24567So if it was a retcon then the Primal Monitor is now supreme. You use the word and then act like you can have two supreme beings. That's Mr. King Scumbag to you.
You saying companies can't retcon things in comics? Thats what it is mr scumbag it happens all the time 😐
Originally posted by zopzop
It may not be the true TOAA of DC but it's almost analogous to Pre-Retcon Beyonder.Do you remember how Secret Wars I and II went down? A being who was the embodiment of a universe MILLIONS of times larger than 616 multiverse became aware of the 616 multiverse and decided to investigate. This being was more powerful than any of the abstracts, even the LT. This being was the Beyonder.
Almost the EXACT same thing occurred with the Primal Monitor and the mainstream DC multiverse.
yeah, i remember. and you know what's funny? All of that got retconned...and I'm willing to say it was for a reason.
logically, even that universe bigger than 616 was inside of Marvel continuity. Even PR Beyonder is inside of the Marvel Continuity in its entirety. And whatever PR Beyonder did to appear so powerful to those inside of 616 continuity, was ultimately necessary.
LT has been seen struggling several times. Protege's got retconned to being an m-body, Reed beat an M-Body. I'd go on a limb and say that Thanos absorbed an M-Body too, but that's another argument. Whatever happened against the LT's m-body was necessary for the story to be told, I guess. I mean, who's to say LT wasn't aware that everything would be put back into proper perspective? We see Thanos saying TOAA wanted to correct a flaw, I could theoretically say LT was involved in that because it could have been necessary for that flaw to be addressed -- whether it was TOAA's decision or LT's detection of it.
that same Secret Wars incident, in comparison to this, this is contained inside of this vs thread. So I'm leaning towards this conclusion:
PM has to somehow defeat LT, and whatever is necessary to do so isn't happening. Whatever is necessary to beat LT, is literally the LT here. And LT only serves TOAA. PM standing next to LT, there is no dispute between the significance. LT could defeat PM, and then monitor DC...probably more effective too.
Originally posted by quanchi112I didn't act like anything i stated what was said and happened in comics if the PM didn't notice the flaw the Presence would be supreme. Nah your just mr scumbag
So if it was a retcon then the Primal Monitor is now supreme. You use the word and then act like you can have two supreme beings. That's Mr. King Scumbag to you.
Originally posted by iceman24567You said it was retconned so the Primal Monitor is supreme not the Presence. I disagree but you're welcome to your opinion.
I didn't act like anything i stated what was said and happened in comics if the PM didn't notice the flaw the Presence would be supreme. Nah your just mr scumbag
