Kun AFBs (amulet ****ing beams) Dooku into oblivion, then Windu has an autoscopy if Bane takes too long to kill him.
With or without his gauntlet, Kun's ancient techniques and being more powerful would beat either of the PT duo all-out. As a duelist - he is a genius; creating & mastering the double-bladed lightsaber within six months is proof of his technical prowess and his stalemate against Ulic indicates his applied skill. He'd win against Dooku blade-to-blade, but he'd probably lose to Windu's Vaapad.
Bane could take down Mace or Dooku too since anything goes.
Originally posted by Advent
Kun AFBs (amulet ****ing beams) Dooku into oblivion, then Windu has an autoscopy if Bane takes too long to kill him.
Moreover, how exactly is Dooku going to sit back, twiddling his thumbs while Exar puts distance between them, raises his arm and then fires? Exar tries that and he's liable to be missing an arm.
With or without his gauntlet, Kun's ancient techniques and being more powerful would beat either of the PT duo all-out. As a duelist - he is a genius; creating & mastering the double-bladed lightsaber within six months is proof of his technical prowess and his stalemate against Ulic indicates his applied skill.
He'd win against Dooku blade-to-blade, but he'd probably lose to Windu's Vaapad.
Bane could take down Mace or Dooku too since anything goes.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
So, we assume Mr. 'Total arrogance' is going to randomly bust out the amulet blasts when he's never done so in any other scenario before. Can we say 'out of character?'
Err, so then isn't it OOC for Sidious to use a Force Storm in a fight because he only did so once? The fact is Kun never had any opponents worthy of being AFB'd besides Ulic who he dueled for a whole...1 1/2 pages before being interrupted.
"Mr. Total Arrogance"? Nein, Lightsnake. In fact, Kun has demonstrated quite the opposite, such as when he warned Ulic against attacking Coruscant even though Ulic just amassed great military strength and at his demise, he states that he "can't fight the combined might of all the Jedi" and chooses to release his spirit. I remember you put up an argument that Kun could have battled back against the Jedi, that he chose not to suggests he is not cocky; only confident.
Moreover, how exactly is Dooku going to sit back, twiddling his thumbs while Exar puts distance between them, raises his arm and then fires? Exar tries that and he's liable to be missing an arm.
I always thought they started out with distance; even so it's as simple as when Dooku pulls Force manuevers in close combat with Anakin & Kenobi fighting two-on-one!
Regardless, Kun doesn't need to use his amulets; he is stacked with aces up his sleeve.
Yeah, that's totally proof of his technical prowess being above Mace or Dooku, two of the finest duelists who ever lived. As a duelist, he's a 'genius' because he might have created the DBL? Especially when Jedi vs. Sith has thrown that into doubt? And while he may be more powerful in the Force, if he engages the other other in a duel?
1. I didn't say his technical talent was actually greater, only that it is -at least- a match for Windu's or Dooku's.
2. Both took years to master a form with a formal instructor. Kun mastered his own form by himself within six months if we believe Jedi vs. Sith. The double-bladed lightsaber is also consistently stated to be harder to master than a single blade even with a teacher. All-in-all, this speaks volumes for him & certainly puts him on level with the greatest of PT duelists.
Kas'im: One who is more skilled with a lightsaber can defeat an opponent who is more powerful in the Force.
Either Dooku or Mace could take on Exar in a straight saber fight.
So you admit Anoon does beat Yoda finally? 😛
Take him on, yes. Take him down, no. They are all very close saber-wise, but when you consider Kun's powers, I don't see either coming out alive. He has a lot of offensive techniques that are completely alien to both of them: spirit-ripping, Sith magic, incineration from the inside-out, etc.
Evidence he'd beat the ultimate master of Makashi blade to blade?
Physically, Kun holds the same advantage Anakin did. His lightsaber style is also going to be completely foreign to Dooku and coupled with his saber's dual-phasing ability (he can throw him off balance by adjusting the intensity of his blade) this will create a huge advantage.
In actual skill, his stalemate of the man who fended off an experienced Cathar Jedi while cut off from the Force speaks for itself. It'd be a tough duel, still Kun would win - where's the proof Dooku would?
Mace is fully capable of handling Bane in a duel. He's even more capable of handling Exar.
Bane could -at bare minimum- hold Windu off for a long time, Kun aids FTW.
Originally posted by Advent
Err, so then isn't it OOC for Sidious to use a Force Storm in a fight because he only did so once? The fact is Kun never had any opponents worthy of being AFB'd besides Ulic who he dueled for a whole...1 1/2 pages before being interrupted.
And let's hear why, exactly, he didn't blast Ulic from the start. And number of panels hardly equals time seen dueling. The moment Exar 'can't claim an advantage' against the other 'master swordsman,' why isn't his arm raised and why isn't he blasting away?
"Mr. Total Arrogance"? Nein, Lightsnake. In fact, Kun has demonstrated quite the opposite, such as when he warned Ulic against attacking Coruscant even though Ulic just amassed great military strength and at his demise, he states that he "can't fight the combined might of all the Jedi" and chooses to release his spirit.
I remember you put up an argument that Kun could have battled back against the Jedi, that he chose not to suggests he is not cocky; only confident.
I always thought they started out with distance; even so it's as simple as when Dooku pulls Force manuevers in close combat with Anakin & Kenobi fighting two-on-one!
Regardless, Kun doesn't need to use his amulets; he is stacked with aces up his sleeve.
1. I didn't say his technical talent was actually greater, only that it is -at least- a match for Windu's or Dooku's.
2. Both took years to master a form with a formal instructor. Kun mastered his own form by himself within six months if we believe Jedi vs. Sith.
There is nothing to suggest or hint that Kun has created or used a 'unique form' rather than a pre-existing one with his saber.
The double-bladed lightsaber is also consistently stated to be harder to master than a single blade even with a teacher. All-in-all, this speaks volumes for him & certainly puts him on level with the greatest of PT duelists.
So you admit Anoon does beat Yoda finally? 😛
Take him on, yes. Take him down, no. They are all very close saber-wise, but when you consider Kun's powers, I don't see either coming out alive. He has a lot of offensive techniques that are completely alien to both of them: spirit-ripping, Sith magic, incineration from the inside-out, etc.
Let's see him try these on someone head on. Capable of defense. On master level like Mace and Dooku, two Jedi of extraordinary power who aren't doubleteamed, caught off guard Jedi or impulsive apprentices or Aleema. The difference? Dooku and Mace can defend themselves. Unless you want to argue that a 'surprised, double teamed from two fronts' Luke or Gantoris have even the fraction of defensive force ability that Mace or Dooku will have.
Oh, yes, they can and possibly will kill him. Neither is known for letting up in a saber match and given that both will be on the defensive with Force abilities and probably not going to lean back while Kun gathers up the power to unleash an attack, Kun needs to get by on his saber skills.
Physically, Kun holds the same advantage Anakin did. His lightsaber style is also going to be completely foreign to Dooku and coupled with his saber's dual-phasing ability (he can throw him off balance by adjusting the intensity of his blade) this will create a huge advantage.
In actual skill, his stalemate of the man who fended off an experienced Cathar Jedi while cut off from the Force speaks for itself.
Being able to take on people like Mace Windu, General Grievous,
It'd be a tough duel, still Kun would win - where's the proof Dooku would?
Dooku's ability to use the force in combat is noted as a rather unique talent at multitasking in combat. When it comes to fights? He's faced Mace Windu, was superior to General Grievous, destroyed Tholme and Sora Bulq simultaneously in a fight while not at his best-without taking so much as a singed cloak from both. To drive that point in: He fights Tholme, a Jeid who was trained by Anzati in some of the deadliest secrets in the galaxy, is a dueling master, a brilliant Jedi and fighter, at the same time he takes on Sora Bulq, noted as a master of every single Saber form, a Jar'Kai user, considered one of the finest swordsmen in the Order and a master of Vaapad to boot...and he wins. he takes them both on with sabers and almost casually blasts Sora to the ground with force lightning and then easily deals with Tholme.
Sora and Tholme both note he's not fully recovered from his duel with Yoda yet, too. the Attack of the Clones novel describes his Makashi mastery as 'unmatched.' He bests Quinlan Vos with no trouble, broke through Kenobi's Soresu without many issues and was considered one of the most skillful Jedi the Order ever produced. And only got better as a Sith. Yes, Dooku can take Kun down.
Bane could -at bare minimum- hold Windu off for a long time, Kun aids FTW.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
If you can find me an instance of me making Palpatine using a Force Storm on individuals a crux of my argument...
That was an example. The point was that versus matches are OOC in general. They are on paper duels; we don't have to limit skills since we're not dealing with storylines.
And let's hear why, exactly, he didn't blast Ulic from the start. And number of panels hardly equals time seen dueling. The moment Exar 'can't claim an advantage' against the other 'master swordsman,' why isn't his arm raised and why isn't he blasting away?
It's possible that those amulets cancel each other out. It would explain why the ancient Sith don't blast each other. Another explanation is that the duel is cut very short, because it was. Doesn't matter since Kun has shown that he is willing to use the gauntlet, ergo he can in a vs match.
In all of his personal fights, Kun is just that arrogant. In Ulic's case, he had a plan and Ulic was going against it. And 'against all the Jedi?' Well, you'd have a point, save for him immediately rushing off and using a ritual that he didn't fully understand that trapped himself in a temple for the next millenia.
Are you trying to argue with a straight face Kun isn't insanely arrogant? He's just not stupid.Look at his general attitude towards almost anything. Vodo, Ood, Sylvar...arrogance is one of the things that sent Kun into the Dark Side.
The question is will it affect the fight? The answer is an obvious "No". There's no proof Kun's attitude would change anything or that he wouldn't blast Dooku as you were saying.
Dooku's combat experience exceeds Kun's by a huge amount.
Very true and experience counts, but the gap between Yoda & Sidious was...huge. Vodo & Kun...huge. Qui-Gon & Maul...huge. Dooku* & Anakin...huge.
and why is Kun going to do this from the start rather than taking out his saber and engaging like he always does?
"Always does"? Not against Odan Urr or Sylvar where he used the Force to dispatch them. You can't judge him from a few opponents anyways; there's not enough evidence to assume he favors one over the other.
And raising one's arm with a Sith artifact, needing to lower the lightsaber hand in the middle of a close range combat against enemies like Dooku and Mace?
It doesn't strike me as a good strategy. More 'utterly suicidal.'
He wields a double-bladed lightsaber with one hand...he has two hands.
Remember also - he can decrease the energy in his blade so that their lightsabers pass through it. They wouldn't know, thus losing their balance & be wide open for an attack.
then it's a good thing for Dooku and Mace they have the jokers up their own.
Windu only has two - Vaapad & shatterpoint (moot). Dooku doesn't have any cards to play here.
he's demonstrated what to give him that credit? Giveeither a great fight, sure. But 'at least' a match? Mace Windu logically outclasses him. He was already a saber prodigy. And what's this about his 'own form?' I'm frankly sick of this 'own form' nonsense. At no point, in the entire mythos, is anyone-ANYONE- with a DBL, from Kas'im to Darth Maul to Sarro Xaj stated to use anything resembling a 'unique form' with their DBLs. You use existing forms in a different style with a double bladed saber and that's it and if you want to talk about how different and special Kun's blade is? Let's see some evidence, because we see him swing it all of three times and in the only single one of those where the position of his hands can be seen, he's gripping it with both of them.There is nothing to suggest or hint that Kun has created or used a 'unique form' rather than a pre-existing one with his saber.
Uh, pretty much everyone AFTER Kun was TAUGHT how to use their double-bladed lightsabers, therefore they aren't creating a style from scratch like Kun.
Kun had to create a unique style because there were no instructions on how to mesh a current style with a DBL-bladed lightsaber. That he could even do that without a teacher or without pre-exisiting knowledge of the saber says much more about his technical skills than the fact the style was unique.
Plus all those others used an extended hilt, Kun's is the size of a normal one which means that he uses it differently than everyone else
It took Bane all of a few months to learn how to utterly nullify every single form and style and maneuver with the DBL from Kas'im of all people.
We also know Dooku to be a 'legendary' saber instructor, a master of most, if not all the forms given that he teaches them to Grievous...we have Mace, who invented his own form to complete Form VII and
Which just suggests that Bane is more talented than Windu & Dooku - what Bane & Kun have done is not commonplace. Mostly everyone takes years to master any single form whereas Kun completed the most difficult to use lightsaber type in 6 months with no formal master! If you want to talk logically, then Kun is a saber genius above everyone in the PT.
It'd be possible in some scenarios, though Yoda'd likely still take him.Oh, right. And he's demonstrated either them in an on the fly combat scenario when his saber is out when? The spirit ripping required the help of Kyp Durron and Luke totally caught in the worst scenario.
He wouldn't need any help in the living flesh where he would be infinitely more powerful than his spirit + greenhorn, 16 y/o Kyp. His Sith magic is like using Force lightning in a fight, it can be done.
Let's see him try these on someone head on. Capable of defense. On master level like Mace and Dooku, two Jedi of extraordinary power who aren't doubleteamed, caught off guard Jedi or impulsive apprentices or Aleema. The difference? Dooku and Mace can defend themselves. Unless you want to argue that a 'surprised, double teamed from two fronts' Luke or Gantoris have even the fraction of defensive force ability that Mace or Dooku will have.
Luke had his lightsaber activated, the double teaming was irrelevant since he still had time to defend against the attack but couldn't because he wasn't strong enough. We've seen cases where power negates Force techniques, post-DE Luke didn't have it or any defense.
So there's no proof two guys who know jack-all about Kun's powers could defend against them.
Oh, yes, they can and possibly will kill him. Neither is known for letting up in a saber match and given that both will be on the defensive with Force abilities and probably not going to lean back while Kun gathers up the power to unleash an attack, Kun needs to get by on his saber skills.
"Gathers up power"? AFBs fire when user ready. Most Force powers don't require more than one second to use. Kun's saber skills are good enough, which is why it comes down to the Force; he wins there.
Oh, yeah, it's not like Dooku's usage of a curved hilt isn't going to have an advantage-which we know from the Bane duology, it does give the user an advantage. and when will Kun's 'style' be foreign to Dooku? He's encountered every form. He's encountered Double bladed users...
In other words, Kun has no definitive style edge over Dooku. Dooku's curved hilt gives him the advantage there, though.
Nor are dual phase sabers rarities. Luke even commented they were a 'fad' among Jeid at points and Corran Horn had no issues constructing one.
Given that the usage of a curved hilt blade was giving Bane a complete advantage over Raskta Lsu, who has far more experience with a saber than Kun did...Dooku's got just as much an advantage over Exar. If Exar even has an advantage there at all.
Dooku exerts himself with the Force more than Kun because he is old and less staminous. This doesn't help here because Kun is actually stronger physically by leagues and Force-wise. His Force abilities eclipse Dooku's. He's fast enough to contend with Ulic who was trained to attack with lightning fast strikes by Arca, demonstrated where he leaps & beheads an ancient Sith Lord's spirit-possessed armor so quickly that the warrior couldn't even bring up his saber.
Vodo was a skilled master (*duh!*), who was so precise that he could find Kun's balance point during the midst of movement & exploit it. But as we saw later during their second duel in TSW, Vodo cannot penetrate his defense and gets slayed effortlessly, so Kun must've learned how to handle precision. This could be comparable to Makashi's bladework, albeit I'll admit that Vodo is not as good as Dooku.
Dooku was struggling with Anakin's strength, speed, stamina & skill - he was getting tired, which is what would happen against Kun. As for your points:
- The advantage is pretty small from a curved hilt as far as I can tell.
- No DBL-blade user is like Exar; unique hilt, unique style.
- Dooku won't know it's a dual-phase, so Exar maintains that advantage.
- [Irrelevant] "Fad at points"? Can you be clearer? Which "points"? [/Irrelevant]
- Makashi would have a hard time defending against Exar's hammer strikes & brute strength.
Advantage: Kun. Now support your side, put some context into it.
You mean 'constantly ran away while briefly fending off at points' from the Sylvar who hadn't seen combat with another bladesbeing in ten years, right?
No proof she hadn't fought. It's apparent that she still trained and kept up on her skills however as that is the job of a Jedi Knight.
He also wasn't even trying to kill or harm her at all, she was.
Kreia says that being cut off from the Force is like losing all of your senses at once. She tells that Jedi rely on the Force more than they know. Now Ulic had been stripped for a decade (deteriorated skills) and had less than a decades worth of training to begin with. So he was fighting an experienced knight tapping into her emotions (as with Obi-Wan/Luke, this makes her even more deadly) who had the Force to amplify her and grant her precognition.
A feat never accomplished before or again, his natural affinity for a blade is probably the greatest we've seen yet. Just imagine him in his prime where he stalemates Kun among several other feats [e.g. defeating Mandalore, Warb Null].
Where's the proof Kun would? You've provided none of it. Just that "he's good.' What puts him above Dooku there exactly?
^ See above post.
Your proof is like me saying Kun wins because he stalemated one of the greatest lightsaber users the galaxy has ever seen. Kun has most of the relevant advantages for victory against Dooku and he is as skilled at the very least. Contextual evidence is more convincing than feat wars.
Dooku's ability to use the force in combat is noted as a rather unique talent at multitasking in combat. When it comes to fights?
It's not that Dooku's "multitasking" is rare, it's that Form II is. Makashi leaves a free hand, all other forms are used with two hands unless user variants like Kun.
He's faced Mace Windu, was superior to General Grievous, destroyed Tholme and Sora Bulq simultaneously in a fight while not at his best-without taking so much as a singed cloak from both. To drive that point in: He fights Tholme, a Jeid who was trained by Anzati in some of the deadliest secrets in the galaxy, is a dueling master, a brilliant Jedi and fighter, at the same time he takes on Sora Bulq, noted as a master of every single Saber form, a Jar'Kai user, considered one of the finest swordsmen in the Order and a master of Vaapad to boot...and he wins. he takes them both on with sabers and almost casually blasts Sora to the ground with force lightning and then easily deals with Tholme.Sora and Tholme both note he's not fully recovered from his duel with Yoda yet, too. the Attack of the Clones novel describes his Makashi mastery as 'unmatched.' He bests Quinlan Vos with no trouble, broke through Kenobi's Soresu without many issues and was considered one of the most skillful Jedi the Order ever produced. And only got better as a Sith. Yes, Dooku can take Kun down.
- Not recovered from Yoda? Makes no sense since Dooku wasn't injured at all and had...hours/days to recuperate.
- Sora was in a near-fatal crash during Geonosis, so he wasn't in good shape. If he was, then Dooku had to have been in perfect condition.
- Tholme never won any duel he was in; he is not a dueling master; he sucks.
- We've seen cases where two-on-one doesn't do as well as one-on-one (TPM, ROTS). Even four-on-one caused problems for the group since the only good one out of them had to focus on protecting his companions. Tholme has never proven himself particularly skilled with a blade...
- He did not break Kenobi's defense with a lightsaber, he used the Force.
- Quotes that I posted originally are meaningless. Or Kun isn't also one of the most powerful beings ever to exist?
IF Kun does that. Not even considering that Mace takes on Kun while dooku holds off Bane. Given the sheer amount of force Dooku is shown handling, his own precision being Bane's nightmare and being intimately aware with the curved hilt saber, he'd be more than capable of holding Bane off while Windu takes on Kun. and is very, very capable of killing him.
Dooku would do worse against Bane than Kun...but let's take one thing at a time 'cause I hate these so often made huge double posts! 😠
A few things, don't want to get into this heated pissing contest.
1. You say there's no proof Kun couldn't use the amulet blasts during a fight. I'll say there's no proof he CAN use it in a fight against another force user, especially someone as powerful as Dooku, or Windu.
2. kun didn't create the saber or the style. JvsS retconned that. So the argument that Kun's style was unique and died with him, is dead.
3. There isn't one iota of proof that Kun is better or even on par with Dooku or Windu. You'd make more of an argument for Bane, who would most likely take Dooku but wouldn't fare better than Sidious did against Mace, unless he relies solely on the force.
What!...We're not getting heated or pissing??...Well, maybe Lightsnake is...you know how much of an overactive bladder he has. Don't be afraid to enter the convo, Darth Sexy. We won't bite. 👿 It's more fun with more people plus we have different views so we get more out of it.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
A few things, don't want to get into this heated pissing contest.1. You say there's no proof Kun couldn't use the amulet blasts during a fight. I'll say there's no proof he CAN use it in a fight against another force user, especially someone as powerful as Dooku, or Windu.
2. kun didn't create the saber or the style. JvsS retconned that. So the argument that Kun's style was unique and died with him, is dead.
3. There isn't one iota of proof that Kun is better or even on par with Dooku or Windu. You'd make more of an argument for Bane, who would most likely take Dooku but wouldn't fare better than Sidious did against Mace, unless he relies solely on the force.
1. Mace needed a lightsaber to block Sidious' lightning (dark side energy same as blasts) and struggled. You can't block the amulet beams with a lightsaber, so you need to use your hands.
What happens when they try to defend against it? The exertion required to block against an attack of that magnitude would be a considerable amount of power, & Kun can fire with no downtime & it gets twice as strong each time. Plus there's a huge element of surprise 'cause they've never seen anything like it before. I'd like to know what makes you think they could stop it.
"They are powerful" - Kun is more powerful & so is his pimp hand where the gauntlet lies.
2. JvS is a fallible, in-universe source. The Ep. I Visual Dictionary says that Exar Kun built the first saber ever in Maul's entry, the databank says Kun was the 1st recorded to have one.
Also it would be impractical during that time since the Jedi had to fight with battery packs that had chords to charge the saber - a DBL-blade would be extremely hard to use because of its already limited movement. No proof there was a style in that holocron if it existed, much less one Kun could use. So JvS is retconned by Advent.
3. Did you read my posts? 😕
1. Mace needed a lightsaber to block Sidious' lightning (dark side energy same as blasts) and struggled. You can't block the amulet beams with a lightsaber, so you need to use your hands.
What happens when they try to defend against it? The exertion required to block against an attack of that magnitude would be a considerable amount of power, & Kun can fire with no downtime & it gets twice as strong each time. Plus there's a huge element of surprise 'cause they've never seen anything like it before. I'd like to know what makes you think they could stop it.
"They are powerful" - Kun is more powerful & so is his pimp hand where the gauntlet lies.
2. JvS is a fallible, in-universe source. The Ep. I Visual Dictionary says that Exar Kun built the first saber ever in Maul's entry, the databank says Kun was the 1st recorded to have one.
Also it would be impractical during that time since the Jedi had to fight with battery packs that had chords to charge the saber - a DBL-blade would be extremely hard to use because of its already limited movement. No proof there was a style in that holocron if it existed, much less one Kun could use. So JvS is retconned by Advent.
3. Did you read my posts? 😕 [/B]
No, I'm sure they were devilshly sexy and full of witty banter.
Originally posted by AdventThat was an example. The point was that versus matches are OOC in general. They are on paper duels; we don't have to limit skills since we're not dealing with storylines.
It's possible that those amulets cancel each other out.
It would explain why the ancient Sith don't blast each other.
Another explanation is that the duel is cut very short, because it was. Doesn't matter since Kun has shown that he is willing to use the gauntlet, ergo he can in a vs match.
The question is will it affect the fight? The answer is an obvious "No". There's no proof Kun's attitude would change anything or that he wouldn't blast Dooku as you were saying.
Really seems like a guy who'll stand there blasting things like a lunatic.
Very true and experience counts, but the gap between Yoda & Sidious was...huge. Vodo & Kun...huge. Qui-Gon & Maul...huge. Dooku* & Anakin...huge.
"Always does"? Not against Odan Urr or Sylvar where he used the Force to dispatch them. You can't judge him from a few opponents anyways; there's not enough evidence to assume he favors one over the other.
He wields a double-bladed lightsaber with one hand...he has two hands.
Remember also - he can decrease the energy in his blade so that their lightsabers pass through it.
They wouldn't know, thus losing their balance & be wide open for an attack.
Windu only has two - Vaapad & shatterpoint (moot). Dooku doesn't have any cards to play here.
Kun by contrast? Has no cards against them.
Uh, pretty much everyone AFTER Kun was TAUGHT how to use their double-bladed lightsabers, therefore they aren't creating a style from scratch like Kun.
Kun had to create a unique style because there were no instructions on how to mesh a current style with a DBL-bladed lightsaber.
That he could even do that without a teacher or without pre-exisiting knowledge of the saber says much more about his technical skills than the fact the style was unique.
Plus all those others used an [b]extended hilt, Kun's is the size of a normal one which means that he uses it differently than everyone else
Which just suggests that Bane is more talented than Windu & Dooku - what Bane & Kun have done is not commonplace.
Mostly everyone takes years to master any single form whereas Kun completed the most difficult to use lightsaber type in 6 months [b]with no formal master!
If you want to talk logically, then Kun is a saber genius above everyone in the PT.
[uote]
He wouldn't need any help in the living flesh where he would be infinitely more powerful than his spirit + greenhorn, 16 y/o Kyp. [/Quote]
Oh, riiight. Which is why he never did this to anyone while he was alive. Probably because Jedi of incredible power can *Gasp* DEFEND THEMSELVES! It's not like putting up defensive barriers is the first things Force Users do in a fight
His Sith magic is like using Force lightning in a fight, it can be done.
Luke had his lightsaber activated, the double teaming was irrelevant since he still had time to defend against the attack but couldn't because he wasn't strong enough.
We've seen cases where power negates Force techniques, post-DE Luke didn't have it or any defense.
So there's no proof two guys who know jack-all about Kun's powers could defend against them.
"Gathers up power"? AFBs fire when user ready.
Most Force powers don't require more than one second to use. Kun's saber skills are good enough, which is why it comes down to the Force; he wins there.
Dooku exerts himself with the Force more than Kun because he is old and less staminous. This doesn't help here because Kun is actually stronger physically by leagues and Force-wise.
'By leagues?' Oh please. Lay the 'But the GROUND shook when he WALKED!' one on me again. Dooku's said to be one of the most powerful Jedi the order ever produced who only got stronger as a Sith. Given that it's Kun's nature to just got the saber match, he'd be screwing himself over. And physically
His Force abilities eclipse Dooku's. He's fast enough to contend with Ulic who was trained to attack with lightning fast strikes by Arca, demonstrated where he leaps & beheads an ancient Sith Lord's spirit-possessed armor so quickly that the warrior couldn't even bring up his saber.
Vodo was a skilled master (*duh!*), who was so precise that he could find Kun's balance point during the midst of movement & exploit it.
But as we saw later during their second duel in TSW, Vodo cannot penetrate his defense and gets slayed effortlessly, so Kun must've learned how to handle precision.
This could be comparable to Makashi's bladework, albeit I'll admit that Vodo is not as good as Dooku.
Dooku was struggling with Anakin's strength, speed, stamina & skill - he was getting tired, which is what would happen against Kun. As for your points:
- The advantage is pretty small from a curved hilt as far as I can tell.
- No DBL-blade user is like Exar; unique hilt, unique style.
- Dooku won't know it's a dual-phase, so Exar maintains that advantage.
- [Irrelevant] "Fad at points"? Can you be clearer? Which "points"? [/Irrelevant]
- Makashi would have a hard time defending against Exar's hammer strikes & brute strength.
Advantage: Kun. Now support your side, put some context into it. [/B]
Originally posted by Advent
No proof she hadn't fought. It's apparent that she still trained and kept up on her skills however as that is the job of a Jedi Knight.
He also wasn't even trying to kill or harm her at all, she was.
Kreia says that being cut off from the Force is like losing all of your senses at once. She tells that Jedi rely on the Force more than they know. Now Ulic had been stripped for a decade (deteriorated skills) and had less than a decades worth of training to begin with. So he was fighting an experienced knight tapping into her emotions (as with Obi-Wan/Luke, this makes her even more deadly) who had the Force to amplify her and grant her precognition.
A feat never accomplished before or again, his natural affinity for a blade is probably the greatest we've seen yet.
Just imagine him in his prime where he stalemates Kun among several other feats [e.g. defeating Mandalore, Warb Null].
^ See above post.
Your proof is like me saying Kun wins because he stalemated one of the greatest lightsaber users the galaxy has ever seen.
Kun has most of the relevant advantages for victory against Dooku and he is as skilled at the very least.
Contextual evidence is more convincing than feat wars.
It's not that Dooku's "multitasking" is rare, it's that Form II is. Makashi leaves a free hand, all other forms are used with two hands unless user variants like Kun.
- Not recovered from Yoda? Makes no sense since Dooku wasn't injured at all and had...hours/days to recuperate.
- Sora was in a near-fatal crash during Geonosis, so he wasn't in good shape. If he was, then Dooku had to have been in perfect condition.
- Tholme never won any duel he was in; he is not a dueling master; he sucks.[/Quote[]
Oh, COME ON. His fights have consisted of:
1. Dooku. Losing to him is REALLY a demerit
2. The Morgukai. He loses this one when dueling Tsyr and Bok shoots him in the back. Given Tsyr is good enough to take on a Jedi Master like Ma'kis and demand full attention, outside interference kind of hurts
3. Quinlan Vos. He opts to fake his death because the options are: Kill Quin or let Quin kill him. How is this resembling a 'loss?'
4. Sora Bulq. Yes, the other fair fight he is one the greatest duelists of the Jedi Order turned Dark Jedi. Noticing a pattern to Tholme's legitimate losses? he tends to be facing some pretty good opponents
I kind of trust Dooku's comment that Tholme's a better duelist than most Jedi.
[Quote]
- We've seen cases where two-on-one doesn't do as well as one-on-one (TPM, ROTS). Even four-on-one caused problems for the group since the only good one out of them had to focus on protecting his companions. Tholme has never proven himself particularly skilled with a blade...
- He did not break Kenobi's defense with a lightsaber, he used the Force.
- Quotes that I posted originally are meaningless. Or Kun isn't also one of the most powerful beings ever to exist?
Dooku would do worse against Bane than Kun
...but let's take one thing at a time 'cause I hate these so often made huge double posts! 😠