Dooku vs. Raskta Lsu

Started by Mizukage Yoda3 pages
Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

Originally posted by chilled monkey
"She had achieved the rare and prestigious rank of Jedi Weapons Master."

"Now tasked with training apprentices in the forms of lightsabre combat."

Note "the forms." Not 'some of the forms.' All of them.


This means nothing, these quotes can be applied to Cin Drallig , and he did not know jack shit about Vapaad/ Juyo, also Sora Bulq Mastered every form as well and Dooku tooled him all the same. The Forms doesn't mean that much, being basically familiar with forms to teach is one thing, but mastering all of them is another. Dooku taught GG, the most deadly Jedi Killer in History, and he educated him so well in the forms that he could duel (in sabers at least) on par will the Six Greater Sworbeings( outdueled Ti, dueled on par with Kenobi and Mace.) If Dooku hadn't been well versed in the forms himself, how did he teach someone like GG, so quickly and effectively. 😄 Point is Dooku wins hands down 💃

Darth_Glentract The Truest Sith Lord

Mizukage, if you honestly think Dooku owns her, you don't know shit.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Mizukage, if you honestly think Dooku owns her, you don't know shit.

Stuff like this is why TrueJedi is leaving- knock it off. That didn't help your argument at all- so why would you say it?

Gideon Restricted
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Stuff like this is why TrueJedi is leaving- knock it off. That didn't help your argument at all- so why would you say it?

Comments like these have existed since time immemorial. With all due respect to Truejedi (and I do have great respect for pacifists), the world is full of pricks with inflated egos who make comments like Glentract's. If he's in full retreat mode because of it, that's his choice, but don't attempt to use that as a means of fostering change. If he's going to flee at the first sign of adversity, he's going to be defeated in all aspects of life.

My suggestion would be one of the following:

a.) Annihilate Glentract with a witty response. It's easier than some would think.

b.) Put him on ignore.

c.) Ask "was this necessary?"

But making an entire point out of it and throwing out Truejedi's retirement as the means by which to compel Glentract to cease his ways isn't very effective.

Allankles Kwisatz Haderach

Dooku is superior in all areas.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Gideon
If he's going to flee at the first sign of adversity, he's going to be defeated in all aspects of life.
You're the one who was contemplating "retiring" because you thought people were going out of there way to disagree with you.

Truejedi thinks this stuff is juvenile; so be it.

Darth_Glentract The Truest Sith Lord

Seriously, you're giving me crap Gideon? Mizukage makes unsupported claims like that all the time. He completely dropped the multiple"blank vs. Vong" arguments in the middle. If anyone is failing to contribute, it's him.

Gideon Restricted
Originally posted by Faunus
You're the one who was contemplating "retiring" because you thought people were going out of there way to disagree with you.

No, I'm the one who was frustrated with half a dozen members (relative neophytes) from this forum going well out of their way to oppose me and then offer nothing in terms of logic -- Truejedi is a great example of this himself. He just disagrees "because it doesn't seem right." That's not good enough.

With respect, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. But you and I have been through this merry-go-round before. If you can't be bothered to understand that which you're commenting on, don't comment at all.

Truejedi thinks this stuff is juvenile; so be it.

That's his choice. In fact, I didn't say a thing to Truejedi. I simply asked Red Nemesis not to make a tremendous deal out of it.

By the way, you have a long-standing argument of ours to get to via private messaging. Rather than waste time providing commentary of that which you are ignorant, perhaps you could get around to that?

And Glentract, I just threw a sarcastic jab in your direction. Nothing ill intended behind it. We just all pick on each other around here.

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Seriously, you're giving me crap Gideon? Mizukage makes unsupported claims like that all the time. He completely dropped the multiple"blank vs. Vong" arguments in the middle. If anyone is failing to contribute, it's him.

"Things that bother you never bother me...Living in the sunlight loving in the moonlight having a wonderful time." If you haven't noticed already I exaggerate a hella lot: here is the Wookiepedia's quote on Raskta Lsu.
"As the esteemed Weapon Master of the Jedi Order, Raskta Lsu's greatest talents were in lightsaber combat. Her Echani ideals of perfection through mastery of one's physical self were incorporated into her Jedi training, and she eventually became the greatest duelist of her time. A master of all forms of lightsaber combat, Lsu's preferred style was Jar'Kai, one she implemented with two blue blades. Lsu was so proficient in battle with her blades, that she was able to switch between dueling styles seamlessly; a tactic that often confused her opponents. She was able to duel a single adversary with several partners, playing off of their unique styles to maximize the effectiveness of her own. Lsu was also adept with the double-bladed variant as well, which she trained her Padawan, Sarro Xaj, in the use of. She was even familiar with the hooked-handle lightsaber, to the point of being able to immediately recognize it while in the thick of combat. In battle against a user of said weapon, Lsu was able to modify her own technique to compensate for the slight variance that resulted from the curved-hilt's usage.

In matters of the Force, however, Raskta Lsu was virtually inept. She had exchanged all study in the ways of the Force for exclusive devotion to training with lightsabers. Though, her melee skills mostly compensated for her Force-talent impotence. In battle, Lsu had to be shielded by others while she cut down her foes. "
Do you see she had to beshielded by others in the force. She will most certainly be tooled in Force and All Out.
Now on to Sabers:
1. She may be able to tell a curved hilt in the middle of battle, Dooku managed to Identify if General Grievous held his lightsaber too lightly or tightly in the midst of battle
2. Jar' Kai, Dooku has tooled and trained several of the most renowned Jar' Kai users in the PT era GG, Ventress, and Sora Bulq. I can argue that Jar' Kai is weak against the Count considering every time that he has encountered it he has emerged victorious, quite handily at that. Do you have evidence that points to Lsu being above General "tool Five Jedi with two Sabers" Grievous, let alone four saber grievous.
3. She is at the top of the Russan era: So, Dooku was at the top of a superior era. The PT is the Golden age of the Order. According to many sources #2 he outsparred Windu, he was second only to Yoda in terms of Saber skills. This is a superior era as well.
4. Perhaps you may bring up Anakin's victory over the Count, he was toying with him for neerly the entire duel, in fact only a few seconds before when he got his hands diced off he had a big ole grin on his face. The Anakin suprised the good Count and outmanuevered him. Until the last few seconds he was in control, hell he was in control even with Kenobi in the fight. That is the Count's only
5. I respect you Glentract, but if you honestly believe that Dooku won't win this one I'll lose a hell of respect.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Gideon
With respect, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. But you and I have been through this merry-go-round before. If you can't be bothered to understand that which you're commenting on, don't comment at all.
Stop spazzing out. You said truejedi shouldn't flee at the first sight of adversity. What you were "frustrated" by was a form of adversity. Simple?

I'm not being antagonistic or anything, just pointing out that you shouldn't be criticizing truejedi for getting tired of this place for one reason or another. Calm down.

By the way, you have a long-standing argument of ours to get to via private messaging. Rather than waste time providing commentary of that which you are ignorant, perhaps you could get around to that?
I haven't forgotten.

Gideon Restricted
Originally posted by Faunus
Stop spazzing out.

I'm not spazzing. As I mentioned to Glentract in the same diatribe, I'm exercising my right to humiliate and pick on my peers inferiors in a sarcastic (though friendly) manner.

You said truejedi shouldn't flee at the first sight of adversity. What you were "frustrated" by was a form of adversity. Simple?

Not really, no. The difference is so simple that I'm actually surprised, Faunus. I said that Truejedi shouldn't flee at the first sign of adversity. My frustration was born from several direct incidents from multiple individuals.

I'm not being antagonistic or anything, just pointing out that you shouldn't be criticizing truejedi for getting tired of this place for one reason or another. Calm down.

And there is a tremendous difference. But what I said to Red Nemesis, is that such comments have existed since time immemorial and will no doubt continue to appear on these forums. Truejedi's departure isn't going to change that.

I haven't forgotten.

You understandably fear the intellectual destruction I shall lay upon you. That you are aware of your inferiority is a sign of a fully functioning common sense. But you should either drop it completely or hurry up and get it done.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm not spazzing. As I mentioned to Glentract in the same diatribe, I'm exercising my right to humiliate and pick on my peers inferiors in a sarcastic (though friendly) manner.

Not really, no. The difference is so simple that I'm actually surprised, Faunus. I said that Truejedi shouldn't flee at the first sign of adversity. My frustration was born from several direct incidents from multiple individuals.

And there is a tremendous difference. But what I said to Red Nemesis, is that such comments have existed since time immemorial and will no doubt continue to appear on these forums. Truejedi's departure isn't going to change that.

In other words, I win.

You understandably fear the intellectual destruction I shall lay upon you. That you are aware of your inferiority is a sign of a fully functioning common sense. But you should either drop it completely or hurry up and get it done.
No. I shall take my sweet time and blindside you with my power.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"Things that bother you never bother me...Living in the sunlight loving in the moonlight having a wonderful time." If you haven't noticed already I exaggerate a hella lot: here is the Wookiepedia's quote on Raskta Lsu.

Wookieepedia isn't a source. Also, what was the first quotation from/regarding? I can't connect it to the subject, no matter how hard I try.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Now on to Sabers:
1. She may be able to tell a curved hilt in the middle of battle, Dooku managed to Identify if General Grievous held his lightsaber too lightly or tightly in the midst of battle

Her ID of the saber also came in the midst of battle- this isn't a factor in either direction.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

2. Jar' Kai, Dooku has tooled and trained several of the most renowned Jar' Kai users in the PT era GG, Ventress, and Sora Bulq. I can argue that Jar' Kai is weak against the Count considering every time that he has encountered it he has emerged victorious, quite handily at that. Do you have evidence that points to Lsu being above General "tool Five Jedi with two Sabers" Grievous, let alone four saber grievous.

A>B>C logic won't fly here. We aren't comparing her to General Grievous, we're pitting her against the Count. They aren't the same thing at all. Dooku's "tooling" of Ventress was a matter of training- he didn't teach her everything he knew, specifically so that he would have an edge over her.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

3. She is at the top of the Russan era: So, Dooku was at the top of a superior era. The PT is the Golden age of the Order. According to many sources #2 he out sparred Windu, he was second only to Yoda in terms of Saber skills. This is a superior era as well.

We know that Raskta > Ruusan era. We know that Dooku > PT era. Also, the PT era > Ruusan period. We can prove that Dooku > PT > Ruusan. We are not allowed by the laws of logic to make a comparison between Dooku and Raskta, at least not with the information given in the "prime of the Jedi" quote.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

4. Perhaps you may bring up Anakin's victory over the Count, he was toying with him for nearly the entire duel, in fact only a few seconds before when he got his hands diced off he had a big ole grin on his face. The Anakin surprised the good Count and outmaneuvered him. Until the last few seconds he was in control, hell he was in control even with Kenobi in the fight. That is the Count's only

You stop mid-sentence, so I'm not sure what your point is. You make an excellent one for how Dooku got overpowered by Anakin, but I don't think that helps your case. Also- the novelization has him panicking while Kenobi is still in the fray, which caused the Force attack. He couldn't take them both at once, and he couldn't take Anakin alone. This isn't directly relevant to our discussion, but I think that it needed to be cleared up.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

5. I respect you Glentract, but if you honestly believe that Dooku won't win this one I'll lose a hell of respect.

You haven't earned my respect yet, but I'm sure that you have the capability to do so. Give a well reasoned, thought out, sourced (not wookieepedia) response and I might respond to it. Oh, and you may as well use spell check- it's not like it takes very long.

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

Wookiepedia is a source as long as the documents are not opinionated, and sourced. I have no interest in Bane's era, nor do I have the time to read such novels on it to win some silly clash with you, as a result my sources are limited, one of the disadvantatges of going to an elite school I suppose. Whatever, my point is her use of Jar'Kai will not help her prevail in a duel with Dooku. Who has she bested in combat? She nearly was killed by a simple Force push by Bane. Dooku will ragdoll her with the Force, her shieldings are no where near as good as Kenobi's(although Kenobi is her inferior with the blade) and yet he was tooled by the count. As I said before in a duel the Count is well versed in all forms of Saber combat, and has tooled Sora Bulq, the master of Vappad, and Jar' Kai. Lsu and Faralla could not best Bane WITH Battle Meditation, without it they were quickly tooled. What makes you think that a person of Dooku's calibur could be bested by Lsu, she has never won a duel except for nameless sith she killed during the seventh battle of Russan. Provide a quote that can even brush upon Dooku being; "The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure." Master Yoda.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Wookiepedia is a source as long as the documents are not opinionated, and sourced. I have no interest in Bane's era, nor do I have the time to read such novels on it to win some silly clash with you, as a result my sources are limited, one of the disadvantatges of going to an elite school I suppose.

I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't want to argue? If so, just concede the point like a mature individual and lets move on. Wookieepedia is a good guide for the gist of a character's power or history, but to base an argument in wookieepedia is risky. How do you know that all of the sources are valid if you don't check them out yourself?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Whatever, my point is her use of Jar'Kai will not help her prevail in a duel with Dooku. Who has she bested in combat? She nearly was killed by a simple Force push by Bane.

This is the very same Bane who could liquidize bone, and who

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Dooku will ragdoll her with the Force, her shieldings are no where near as good as Kenobi's(although Kenobi is her inferior with the blade) and yet he was tooled by the count.

Do you have any proof that Kenobi's force shielding is anywhere near proficient? Jedi didn't need force protection during the PT because they weren't in combat with sith/dark side practitioners on a regular basis. Raskta would be far more familiar and therefore proficient with the technique than Kenobi was.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

As I said before in a duel the Count is well versed in all forms of Saber combat, and has tooled Sora Bulq, the master of Vappad, and Jar' Kai. Lsu and Faralla could not best Bane WITH Battle Meditation, without it they were quickly tooled.

Losing to Bane is not a sign of weakness at all. The count is good, yes, but Raskta's skill was considerable. There will be no stomp, curb or otherwise, in a duel between her and Tyrranus.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

What makes you think that a person of Dooku's calibur could be bested by Lsu, she has never won a duel except for nameless sith she killed during the seventh battle of Russan.

She gave one hell of a fight to Darth Bane, even while he still had his orbalisk armor. Dooku is on the top tier, but she was the best in a militaristic age- she turned herself into a weapon. She might not be able to beat him more than 4/10 times, but the fight would be close, and the two are virtually even.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Provide a quote that can even brush upon Dooku being; "The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure." Master Yoda.

OK, so Dooku got some praise from his former master. Because Yoda wouldn't be biased at all, even though he taught him for Dooku's whole life, and even in the RotS novelization still had hope to redeem him. Yoda isn't impartial here. Besides, Living Weapon is much more BA than "learned in the ways of the force."

Darth_Glentract The Truest Sith Lord

And there is the continuing fact that greatness doesn't automatically translate into combat prowess.

Mizukage Yoda Lord of Winterfell

I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't want to argue? If so, just concede the point like a mature individual and lets move on. Wookieepedia is a good guide for the gist of a character's power or history, but to base an argument in wookieepedia is risky. How do you know that all of the sources are valid if you don't check them out yourself?

No, I'm saying I do not have the time, or resources to go to Barnes and Nobles, and buy the book for a single quote, so I'll have to use Wookiepedia.
OK, so Dooku got some praise from his former master. Because Yoda wouldn't be biased at all, even though he taught him for Dooku's whole life, and even in the RotS novelization still had hope to redeem him. Yoda isn't impartial here. Besides, Living Weapon is much more BA than "learned in the ways of the force."

Not really, Yoda has trained "thousands" of Jedi into Knighthood according to the visual guides, if anything he is a greater judge than any. I mean Ki-Adi Mundi, Rahm Kota, and Obi-Wan were all trained by Yoda at some point, and yet you don't hear Yoda sucking up to them. Dooku is referred to as one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25,000 year History, and an even more powerful Sith.
Losing to Bane is not a sign of weakness at all. The count is good, yes, but Raskta's skill was considerable. There will be no stomp, curb or otherwise, in a duel between her and Tyrranus.

You honestly can tell me the count will not stomp her in a Force only duel. Raskta's skill was considerable, but Dooku's was exceptional, he held a peerless of Makashi, a mastery of all seven forms of lightsaber combat, a vast knowledge of the Dark Side and all of its arts.
This is the very same Bane who could liquidize bone, and who

I'm guessing you ended that sentence by accident. Bane is powerful, there is no doubt about that. Dooku, has illustrated the ability to see flaws in the lightsaber form of GG without a problem, he managed just by dueling him, able to tell how the General held his saber. Dooku honed his skills to a fine point for neerly a century, and has trained under the tutelage of the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, and the Dark Lord of the Sith. Dooku dispatches of Sora Bulq with ease, and this is one of the three users of Vappad in the Galaxy, who had also mastered every other form. Even with Tholme's help he still was massacred.
Do you have any proof that Kenobi's force shielding is anywhere near proficient? Jedi didn't need force protection during the PT because they weren't in combat with sith/dark side practitioners on a regular basis. Raskta would be far more familiar and therefore proficient with the technique than Kenobi was.

Yes, Kenobi look at ROTS, when Obi-Wan is flung against DURASTEEL wall, with the force that could have killed any normal human beingthen crushed by a god knows how heavy DURASTEELwalkway, and comes out without any thing broken or injured its pretty obvious that he has some degree of Force Shielding 😛
She gave one hell of a fight to Darth Bane, even while he still had his orbalisk armor. Dooku is on the top tier, but she was the best in a militaristic age- she turned herself into a weapon. She might not be able to beat him more than 4/10 times, but the fight would be close, and the two are virtually even.

With the assistance of two other formidable Jedi, one was able to redirect Bane's lightning, the other was a Master who was on the Council and survived Ruusan, hell I can say Fisto put up one hell of a fight too, but he still died 😮‍💨