The Deceitful 'Contract' of Free Will

Ask some one of the Christian faith why God allows bad things to happen and they will likely associate it with the fact that God gave us free will so we could do as we please or make our own decisions. If this is the case then why are we punished for the choices God allowed us to make? Why do Heaven and Hell exist?

Would you give a baby a loaded gun and punish it for shooting some one and reward it for not. We have free will until we do some thing God does not like then it is eternal pain and suffering, better luck next time. Apparantly God enjoys punishing people who didn't think or even know they did some thing wrong. Why is our contract of free will terminated once we die?

Originally posted by Magee
Ask some one of the Christian faith why God allows bad things to happen and they will likely associate it with the fact that God gave us free will so we could do as we please or make our own decisions. If this is the case then why are we punished for the choices God allowed us to make? Why do Heaven and Hell exist?

Would you give a baby a loaded gun and punish it for shooting some one and reward it for not. We have free will until we do some thing God does not like then it is eternal pain and suffering, better luck next time. Apparantly God enjoys punishing people who didn't think or even know they did some thing wrong. Why is our contract of free will terminated once we die?

The State punishes culpable people for committing crimes all the time, crimes they know are wrong but have they power to do them or not.

Its the same with God, he's said "You can do things my way, or the other way- if you break my rules you'll pay for it, if you follow them, you will be rewarded" Sort of how most parents treat their kids.

Originally posted by Magee
Ask some one of the Christian faith why God allows bad things to happen and they will likely associate it with the fact that God gave us free will so we could do as we please or make our own decisions. If this is the case then why are we punished for the choices God allowed us to make? Why do Heaven and Hell exist?

Would you give a baby a loaded gun and punish it for shooting some one and reward it for not. We have free will until we do some thing God does not like then it is eternal pain and suffering, better luck next time. Apparantly God enjoys punishing people who didn't think or even know they did some thing wrong. Why is our contract of free will terminated once we die?

Heaven and hell do not exist. Problem solved...

The Orthodox Church ,which split from the Roman Church in 1054, Split because they interpreted the Bible to say that Satan and all who fallowed will be destroyed, to be no longer(There were other issues as well but i am addressing your question). Like it mentions in the Old Testament "Sheol" the grave ,to be dead, nothingness. So to The Orthodox the Punishment not getting to live with God (as do the Hebrews believe) in the end not burning in a lake of fire. There is also another Theological school of thought, Look it up "Apocatistasis" that All will be saved. In Pauls writing to Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief (born into sin) that he may have mercy upon ALL" SO its really only The Catholics and some Protestant denominations that even buy into the idea of an eternal damnation.

One more thing I put a little more stock in the Orthodox Church because they are the Greek Churches, The Apostles wrote in Greek so i would think their interpretations were more accurate. The Roman churches interpretation "The Vulgate" was interpreted into Latin. This leaves room for many errors as Martin Luther points out in 1517.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Heaven and hell do not exist. Problem solved...

Shakyamunison wouldn't you consider returning to the collective conscious, the community of enlightened oneness from which our "becoming" on this earth originates as Heaven 😄

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Shakyamunison wouldn't you consider returning to the collective conscious, the community of enlightened oneness from which our "becoming" on this earth originates as Heaven 😄

Originally posted by Magee

Would you give a baby a loaded gun and punish it for shooting some one and reward it for not.

I'd punish it if it were a person and it knew that shooting someone was bad, yeah.

Originally posted by Magee
Would you give a baby a loaded gun and punish it for shooting some one and reward it for not?

Poor example. God gave a list of behaviors one should not to, the choice is made to defy them. Secondly babies do not have an sense of morality or an understanding that their actions have consequences, people do.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The State punishes culpable people for committing crimes all the time, crimes they know are wrong but have they power to do them or not.

Its the same with God, he's said "You can do things my way, or the other way- if you break my rules you'll pay for it, if you follow them, you will be rewarded" Sort of how most parents treat their kids.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The State punishes culpable people for committing crimes all the time, crimes they know are wrong but have they power to do them or not.

Its the same with God, he's said "You can do things my way, or the other way- if you break my rules you'll pay for it, if you follow them, you will be rewarded" Sort of how most parents treat their kids.

Do people go to hell for not being Christian? Is that really free will?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
However your analogy doesn't work because God also created free will and everything that goes with it. He also created the knowledge of good and evil and used it to tempt us.

And you still get to make a choice. That changes nothing.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And you still get to make a choice. That changes nothing.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
But God created the free will and created everything that makes us up down to the very quarks in our body. He made how the universe works, how our brains work and the emotions that we have. How we perceive things and how we think, this is all that he made which includes introducing the thoughts of evil and good. He created how our minds process the information that we receive, how information is transmitted and stored, how we make decisions based on information that we have gathered. All of this he created, free will is something that he designed and built into us it is not something that we created on our own. He created it to do exactly that and introduce us to temptation and evil knowing full well that man would use it. Why would he have to give us free will and then introduce evil, if it is only our decision to follow him why would he need the introduction of evil?

The choice is still there, your fate is in your hands.

Originally posted by Magee
What about people who did not know Christianity even existed? Why did God give us free will but then tell us how to live our lives, do as he says or go to hell. It would seem God is trying to bribe people to beleive in him and it's a pretty effective one.

Do people go to hell for not being Christian? Is that really free will?

Pity...

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The choice is still there, your fate is in your hands.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Heaven and hell do not exist. Problem solved...

Nor does free will, in the Christian sense. Problem further solved.

🙂

Also, any believer will offer their personal take on it. The fact is that you can reconcile evil from a theistic paradigm if you choose to, or you can see it as an irreconcilable problem. It's all in your willingness (or lack thereof) to put faith in whatever deity/doctrine you happen to be following.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
The choice is still there, your fate is in your hands.

Only if you believe in Christian mythology. To me, free will is irrelevant. What we do is driven by cause and effect, and in the big picture, Karma.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Only if you believe in Christian mythology. To me, free will is irrelevant. What we do is driven by cause and effect, and in the big picture, Karma.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Only if you believe in Christian mythology. To me, free will is irrelevant. What we do is driven by cause and effect, and in the big picture, Karma.

His argument is in the context of Christian Theology, thus your arguments are void.

If he said "in Norse theology is there..." and we proceeded to discuss it, your sitting on the sidelines going "none of its true" wouldn't matter and would therefore not gain you any credit. Look how Digi handled this question, he is debating in the context...your just being useless.

He's not being useless, but stating his opinion. He can't approach it from a Christian perspective because he doesn't hold it. I don't either, but merely stated how it's not hard to do. Justifications, even illogical ones, aren't hard for the mind to create when it wants one badly enough. It doesn't mean I find Christian free will any more coherent than shakya.

So useless, no. Difficult, perhaps. But that's part of the internet's charm, no?