Re: Re: Exposing perversity to children
Originally posted by Roomy
Link please.
If they are being brainwashed it is wrong, if they are being taught that homosexuals exist and have a right to do so then that is acceptable.
Homosexuality is like religion, race and gender issues, it has no place in school or withing a hundred yards of any minor. I don't have a link to it, I read it in a newspaper. I don't have a scanner and this paper was from a few months ago.
Personally the one important thing I think has no place in the classroom is parent power. Parents should have absolutely no damn say whatsoever in what their kids are taught. The childen are the 'customers' of the school, not the parents, and abput the only place to escape the entrenched views of your parents and learn to think for yourself is in the school environment.
Parents do more damage to schooling and schoolchildren than any sort of lesson ever does.
Nope, that leads to an entirely crap society. If school is teaching something against the beliefs of the parents- good! That's half the bloody point. At home the parents can argue it, provide counters to it, try and persuade otherwise, but at absolutely no point should they have the power to stop their kids being taught it.
Originally posted by UshgarakI don't think that's actually any part of the point of school. the point is to
Nope, that leads to an entirely crap society. If school is teaching something against the beliefs of the parents- good! That's half the bloody point. At home the parents can argue it, provide counters to it, try and persuade otherwise, but at absolutely no point should they have the power to stop their kids being taught it.
They question their parents enough as soon as they hit that magical age of 14-16. Teaching children that their parents are wrong purposefully would cause all sorts of domestic problems. The children are dependents of the parents, and as such, the parents have every right to teach them what's really up. Forcing parents to let their kids be brainwashed and patronized by the school is the last thing society needs.
Re: Re: Re: Exposing perversity to children
Originally posted by UKR
Homosexuality is like religion, race and gender issues, it has no place in school or withing a hundred yards of any minor. I don't have a link to it, I read it in a newspaper. I don't have a scanner and this paper was from a few months ago.
😆 Way to go.Iread a lot of stuff.Fortunately I can differentiate.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I don't think that's actually any part of the point of school. the point is to
a) educate them for jobs, etc.
b) give them the tools they need to survive.
c) Get them transferred off to college.
I will happily fight to destroy any system which turns education into a mere traning factory. It is FAR beyond that.
It's not treaching children that parents are wqrong- even though that would be a fair lesson to larn. It is simply advancing a point of view (incidentally, also a fair, rational and civilised one). If that conflcits with the views of the parents, tough titties on the parents.
Children may be dependent on the parents but the parents do NOT own them, no matter how much money or effort they put into raising them. They do not have the right to absolutely set their children's belief systems and it is a degenerate society that would allow such a thing. Potential parents shoudl be absolutely aware that they do not have such absolute rights over any children they want to have. They will, of course, have a massive influence over their children anyway; to effectively demand that influence to be raised to 100% is ludicrous. School provides the vital counterpoint.
Parents do FAR more brainwashing than schools ever do, and it is all the worse for it. School is compulsory for good reason; professionalised education is the best resource for developing children. The last thing society needs- the absolute DISASTER for society- is for children to be so under the control of the parents as you propose.
For an absolutel 100 certainty I will state- bad parenting and parents interfering in schooling are a FAR greater menace, by many orders of magnitude, than any sort of sex, equality, gender or lifestyle choice education could ever possibly be. And so before I'd even get into the argument of whether these things should be taught or not (though I think they all should), I would first say "I don't give a toss what the PARENTS think, for sure." My reasoning on whether such things should be on a syllabus would be focussed on the benefits to the child, not the egos of the parents.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Personally the one important thing I think has no place in the classroom is parent power. Parents should have absolutely no damn say whatsoever in what their kids are taught. The childen are the 'customers' of the school, not the parents, and abput the only place to escape the entrenched views of your parents and learn to think for yourself is in the school environment.Parents do more damage to schooling and schoolchildren than any sort of lesson ever does.
That's not entirely true. They're learning to think like their teachers do.
You favour "No say for the parents in what the kids were taught..."
What about a scenario where, lets say for an example, school taught creationalist science as a model for your kid's universe..?
Would you as a man presumably of logic, reason and actual science, not feel tempted to interject at least with commentary on what your kid is taught, especially in the face of such factual/intellectual effrontary..?
Just curious to see how you measure that against the "no parental say" principle.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
you guys seem to think that I'm arguing that homosexuality is bad. NO! I have no problem with homosexuality. Its forcing children to learn about it, forcing people to accept it, and forcing the government to sanction it that's wrong.
That argument can be applied to anything you learn in school. And doesn't really hold much water as such, besides, you are talking Canada, here, not the US, maybe try to tone down the US Constitution rhetoric, it doesn't apply to everyone.
As for homosexuals "choosing" to be gay. If you think you could "choose" to be homosexual, it is very likely that you actually are homosexual and try to ignore or avoid it. Actual heterosexuals, like me, for example, can not "choose" to be gay, which, basically means that homosexuals can not "choose" to be straight either, which takes away the basis of your ignorance. Either way, being human beings, they should be treated equally, and the institution of marriage discriminates against multiple groups from the outset, as such, should be banned. Besides, they do not hurt anyone at all, and being exposed to relevant concepts of our time, which might lead to tolerance of other people's non-harmful life styles is certainly not child abuse.
[edit] As an addition, I partly agree with Ush. In most countries, except for the US, I believe schooling is seen as an exposure to the grander world, as such the children should be, relatively neutrally, exposed to what happens in it. On the other hand there is the fact that teachers are humans as well, and they do have a position of power, for example when I was in 9th grade 14-15 at the time, I assume, we had an economics teacher who was a very strong supporter of a particular party, and he did include his own rants and ideals in basically everything he taught us, which at least turned the outspoken parts of my class into little clones, imo. Obviously I might only have disagreed because my parents believed different, but it is still pretty sickening to see everyone just follow in such a blatant way. Now, that teacher was actually not bad, and he tried to teach us, but I can see the problem that people have as School can be a very strong instrument in a child's life, and not everyone trusts their government, seeing as not every government has the best intentions.
But obviously no such brainwashing is attempted here, and it is ignorant, knee-jerking parents which have a problem with the idea of tolerance be taught. It's similar to not teaching evolution or teaching another silly "theory" next to it, another ridiculous thing, many of the people that condemn homosexuality argue for.
In psychology, there is a condition known as a phantom limb. It occurs when a person has a limb removed, yet they can still feel pain or tension where the limb would have been. This is because the brain contains a map of the body that activates when you feel something, and the limb is never removed from there, only the body.
A majority of men who have their penis removed due to cancer report a "phantom penis" phenomena.
Interestingly, biological men who have underwent sex change surgery report (based on preliminary surveys) significantly less occurrence of phantom penis. The current interpretation of this (it was actually a prediction that spurred the survey) is that the body map of a woman born into a man's body is not male, but female, and thus, the penis is never properly represented, thus cannot have phantom pain.
This indicates that something like personal gender identity, something largely thought to be a social construct, may have very strong biological roots.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I will happily fight to destroy any system which turns education into a mere traning factory. It is FAR beyond that.It's not treaching children that parents are wqrong- even though that would be a fair lesson to larn. It is simply advancing a point of view (incidentally, also a fair, rational and civilised one). If that conflcits with the views of the parents, tough titties on the parents.
Children may be dependent on the parents but the parents do NOT own them, no matter how much money or effort they put into raising them. They do not have the right to absolutely set their children's belief systems and it is a degenerate society that would allow such a thing. Potential parents shoudl be absolutely aware that they do not have such absolute rights over any children they want to have. They will, of course, have a massive influence over their children anyway; to effectively demand that influence to be raised to 100% is ludicrous. School provides the vital counterpoint.
Parents do FAR more brainwashing than schools ever do, and it is all the worse for it. School is compulsory for good reason; professionalised education is the best resource for developing children. The last thing society needs- the absolute DISASTER for society- is for children to be so under the control of the parents as you propose.
For an absolutel 100 certainty I will state- bad parenting and parents interfering in schooling are a FAR greater menace, by many orders of magnitude, than any sort of sex, equality, gender or lifestyle choice education could ever possibly be. And so before I'd even get into the argument of whether these things should be taught or not (though I think they all should), I would first say "I don't give a toss what the PARENTS think, for sure." My reasoning on whether such things should be on a syllabus would be focussed on the benefits to the child, not the egos of the parents.
Yeah This was Adolf Hitlers idea as well. Weather the parents hated Jews or not the school curriculum involved the teaching of hatred toward the Juden. So I guess the Parents should have had no say huh? Seig Hiel! Only In a perfect world Ush.
Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Yeah This was Adolf Hitlers idea as well. Weather the parents hated Jews or not the school curriculum involved the teaching of hatred toward the Juden. So I guess the Parents should have had no say huh? Seig Hiel! Only In a perfect world Ush.
:L Godwin'd !
Wooooooooooo!
Lana would be proud
🙂