Wolverine and Colossus vs The Wrecking Crew

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because you don't think WOlverine cut Wrecker in the scan in question... ?

No I even said he prob cut Wrecker in the scan, but to what degree is the question.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't have to prove a negative. But just because I don't have to, doesn't mean I can't. Explanation that proves mortal shade Hercules is different from circa-2000 mortal Hercules: mortal shade Hercules has always been trapped in Hades and wasn't released when Zeus depowered Hercules circa-2000. If he reduced Hercules to his "original mortal state" as you suggest, then the mortal shade Hercules wouldn't have been in Hades. Since he stayed in Hades, they are not the same at all.

Except mortal Hercules when he was depowered on the earthly plane was still doing incredible fests and ONLY until recently we found out he became immortal again, but we never were shown HOW he became as such. It was constantly discussed wether or not current Hercules was immortal or mortal on this board.

Except that is stated and shown. Prove that this mortal Hercules is different as you claim it is, as the burden is on you as there is no reason there would be a difference

Originally posted by -K-M-
No I even said he prob cut Wrecker in the scan, but to what degree is the question.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Except mortal Hercules when he was depowered on the earthly plane was still doing incredible fests and ONLY until recently we found out he became immortal again, but we never were shown HOW he became as such. It was constantly discussed wether or not current Hercules was immortal or mortal on this board.

Except that is stated and shown. Prove that this mortal Hercules is different as you claim it is, as the burden is on you as there is no reason there would be a difference

Actually, you claimed they were the same. So it's your burden to prove they're the same (despite their completely different historical contexts). But I already proceeded to disprove it. Mortal shade Hercules is that part of him that was burning in agony on a pyre and trapped in Hades ever since. Through your conflation, if Zeus removed Hercules' immortality and restored his mortality, then that mortal shade should have been released. He wasn't. That's just one obvious reason they're not the same. At all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Being made mortal didn't turn him into a 90-tonner. So he still has feats. But he was weaker, specifically. In either case, mortal shade Hercules in Hades is completely different from circa-2000 mortal Hercules and using the former as a measure for when other characters fight the latter is inappropriate. I don't care if it wasn't explained on-panel. Part of Zeus' punishment was exile from Olympus. So whenever he returned to Olympus, you can assume his punishment was over.

Actually, you claimed they were the same. So it's your burden to prove they're the same (despite their completely different historical contexts). But I already proceeded to disprove it. Mortal shade Hercules is that part of him that was burning in agony on a pyre and trapped in Hades ever since. Through your conflation, if Zeus removed Hercules' immortality and restored his mortality, then that mortal shade should have been released. He wasn't. They're not the same. At all.

Where did the 90 tonner stat come from? As I'm positive even "mortal" was listed as class 100. Current Hercules is doing some of his best feats, and once again we had NO IDEA he was back to immortal. How can you not care if it wasn't explained on-panel? That's a huge thing.

Yes, because it's the same circumstances and once again we have no idea when the switch between mortal and immortal Hercules occured. Do we know for sure he wasn't realsed? No we don't. Your assuming far to much and then you ask me to prove what was said? Errr?

^ The "90-tonner" reference was to make light of your back-handed insinuation that I was downplaying mortal Hercules' feats. I recognize that he was still strong. But he was specifically weaker than he was before the depowerment. I don't need it explained to me if it's stated that he's immortal on-panel. Which has been done many times, even back to Ares' miniseries.

We know for sure mortal shade Hercules wasn't released because he specifically hates immortal Hercules for living his life while mortal shade Hercules has been trapped in Hades ever since Zeus originally granted Hercules immortality. Suggesting that I am assuming, when you're assuming that maybe in the 2000's that mortal shade returned to Earth (without even a hint of that), and despite the fact that mortal shade Hercules specifically stated he'd been trapped ever since ancient times is ironic.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The "90-tonner" reference was to make light of your back-handed insinuation that I was downplaying mortal Hercules' feats. I recognize that he was still strong. But he was specifically weaker than he was before the depowerment. I don't need it explained to me if it's stated that he's immortal on-panel. Which has been done many times, even back to Ares' miniseries.

We know for sure mortal shade Hercules wasn't released because he specifically hates immortal Hercules for living his life while mortal shade Hercules has been trapped in Hades ever since Zeus originally granted Hercules immortality. Suggesting that I am assuming, when you're assuming that maybe in the 2000's that mortal shade returned to Earth (without even a hint of that), and despite the fact that mortal shade Hercules specifically stated he'd been trapped ever since ancient times is ironic.

Where did I say that? Seriously why am I being told things I said when I didn't even make a comment about? Curious, but where was he said to be immortal in the Ares mini? (and no I'm not being a dick). He was weaker in the sense as noted by Hercules he can die, as his godly esscence was dimished.

Except the Hercules mini had him going into Hades and discussed his rage. Oye Vey! This board is getitng silly, so you gave me a hard time for "assuming", but you yourself are assuming and ask me provide proof when you are assuming instances as well?

^ Insinuating =/= saying. But I got the impression from you saying, "Except mortal Hercules when he was depowered on the earthly plane was still doing incredible fests." Since I never downplayed circa-2000 mortal Hercules' feats, I only assumed you believed I did and sought to correct that. In any case, Hercules was specifically weaker at the time. I don't have my Ares miniseries scans here on this computer. I'll find them later. But you should also recognize that Hercules was in Olympus during Ares' miniseries. Which is proof positive that Zeus' punishment was lifted.

I don't understand how Hercules going to Hades has anything to do with mortal shade Hercules never being released. He specifically states he's been there ever since ancient times. Which disproves that mortal shade Hercules is the same as circa-2000 mortal Hercules. Frankly, you're projecting your reliance on unsupported assumptions onto me. I'm relying on what is portrayed and stated on-panel by that mortal shade Hercules as just one clear reason that disproves your assumption.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Insinuating =/= saying. But I got the impression from you saying, "Except mortal Hercules when he was depowered on the earthly plane was still doing incredible fests." Since I never downplayed circa-2000 mortal Hercules' feats, I only assumed you believed I did and sought to correct that. In any case, Hercules was specifically weaker at the time. I don't have my Ares miniseries scans here on this computer. I'll find them later. But you should also recognize that Hercules was in Olympus during Ares' miniseries. Which is proof positive that Zeus' punishment was lifted.

I assure you I wasn't saying or insinuating anything of the sort. If you know the issue # by chance that would be enough. Why? Did you not see all the demi-gods recently going to Olympus in Secret Warriors? You don't have to be a full god to go there anymore. Even Ares son isn't a full god and he was there.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't understand what Hercules going to Hades has anything to do with mortal shade Hercules never being released because he specifically states he's been there ever since ancient times. Which disproves that mortal shade Hercules is the same as circa-2000 mortal Hercules. you're projecting your reliance on unsupported assumptions onto me frankly. I'm relying on what is portrayed and stated on-panel by that mortal shade Hercules as just one clear reason that disproves your assumption.

Because they were addressing the very issue, and no I'm not you claim mortal Hercules is different from the current Hercules and I'm asking why? As we didn't even know current Hercules was immortal till recently. I'm relying on what is portrayed and stated on-panel as well.

colossus solo

^ You mean Colossus soloes the curb upon which his jaw is stomped if he were to solo this? K.

Originally posted by -K-M-
I assure you I wasn't saying or insinuating anything of the sort. If you know the issue # by chance that would be enough. Why? Did you not see all the demi-gods recently going to Olympus in Secret Warriors? You don't have to be a full god to go there anymore. Even Ares son isn't a full god and he was there.

Because they were addressing the very issue, and no I'm not you claim mortal Hercules is different from the current Hercules and I'm asking why? As we didn't even know current Hercules was immortal till recently. I'm relying on what is portrayed and stated on-panel as well.

They're not addressing the same issue. You're still conflating the two. The whole context behind the mortal shade of Hercules in Hades is completely and wholly separate from Zeus' depowerment and punishment of Hercules circa-2000. The former was to save Hercules from an eternity of agony and Pluto grasping onto the shade in ancient times. The latter was punishment by Zeus. Mortal Hercules is different from current immortal Hercules because he was specifically weaker and not immortal. Mortal shade Hercules specifically states he's been trapped in Hades ever since ancient times (hence his intense hatred). You're assuming your facts despite this being clearly established.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Colossus was nowhere near close to beating the Wrecking Crew. A single rib-shot nearly killed him, were it not for Zsazi's healing powers. Wrecking Crew suffers from CIS. With Piotr's and Logan's teamwork, I see them more often than not hitting each other as much as hitting their foes. But the Wrecking Crew's power is vastly underestimated here. It is despite their overwhelming power that they split, not as a result of their personal power.

Stalemate 5/10.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You mean Colossus soloes the curb upon which his jaw is stomped if he were to solo this? K. I believe you. Well, there are only four issues in the Ares miniseries. So it's one of those. To your question, Hercules was specifically banished from ever returning to live in Olympus by Zeus also. Zeus specifically stated that. And Herc was in Olympus defending it from Mikaboshi side-by-side with Zeus. Hence, punishment must have been recanted.

They're not addressing the same issue. You're still conflating the two. The whole context behind the mortal shade of Hercules in Hades is completely and wholly separate from Zeus' depowerment and punishment of Hercules circa-2000. The former was to save Hercules from an eternity of agony and Pluto grasping onto the shade in ancient times. The latter was punishment by Zeus. Mortal Hercules is different from current immortal Hercules because he was specifically weaker and not immortal. Mortal shade Hercules specifically states he's been trapped in Hades ever since ancient times (hence his intense hatred). You're assuming your facts despite this being clearly established.

Were going in circles so I'll leave it at that. However, no where was it said they were different in power, even mortal Hercules repeated his circa-2000 feats in his Hercules mini. Both are mortal, no where was it said there would was a difference in power, and once again why would there be? and once again as I mentioned current Hercules' power has been blurred over the years as untill recently we still assumed he was mortal, and that was stated but it wasn't clearly established when the change occured or how.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I disagree. If somebody would be kind enough to post the scan in the last panel you can see a helpless Piledriver in Colossus' arm while Doc Ock, and Thunderball lying face down in front of Colossus. Then we have a stuttering Wrecker saying he's going to kill Colossus before he kills them. In a panel or two before that we see Doc Ock yelling for help and Wrecker lying face down in front of big C.

1. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Secretwars5_1.jpg
2. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Secretwars5_2.jpg
3. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/Secretwars5_3.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
No I even said he prob cut Wrecker in the scan, but to what degree is the question.

Originally posted by Starscream M
its only a question to you because you're twisting yourself into a pretzel in trying to avoid the most obvious and logical interpretation.

hmm... i like pretzels with cheese...fruits_orange

directed at no one.

i use to always be able to come to this site for unbias or at least supported arguments. now with some ppl's comments, i am starting to think some ppl belong in other sites like comicvine where their unsupported arguments, bias opinion and even right out lies wont be questioned.hypocrite

Originally posted by -K-M-
Were going in circles so I'll leave it at that. However, no where was it said they were different in power, even mortal Hercules repeated his circa-2000 feats in his Hercules mini. Both are mortal, no where was it said there would was a difference in power, and once again why would there be? and once again as I mentioned current Hercules' power has been blurred over the years as untill recently we still assumed he was mortal, and that was stated but it wasn't clearly established when the change occured or how.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I disagree. If somebody would be kind enough to post the scan in the last panel you can see a helpless Piledriver in Colossus' arm while Doc Ock, and Thunderball lying face down in front of Colossus. Then we have a stuttering Wrecker saying he's going to kill Colossus before he kills them. In a panel or two before that we see Doc Ock yelling for help and Wrecker lying face down in front of big C.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And still would have been killed by a one-shot from a Wrecker who was sharing his power.

Originally posted by Starscream M
its only a question to you because you're twisting yourself into a pretzel in trying to avoid the most obvious and logical interpretation.

Ummm...no, especially due to the fact this issue was brought to me on other boards as they heard I was redoing their respect thread. Most logical interpretation? haha oh my.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
i use to always be able to come to this site for unbias or at least supported arguments. now with some ppl's comments, i am starting to think some ppl belong in other sites like comicvine where their unsupported arguments, bias opinion and even right out lies wont be questioned.hypocrite

Wow. Seriously I wouldn't talk.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Ummm...no, especially due to the fact this issue was brought to me on other boards as they heard I was redoing their respect thread. Most logical interpretation? haha oh my.

everyone else clearly knows it was shredded flesh.

^ Where's the picture in question?

i have a question. who's skin is denser or superior Thor or The Wrecker? 😊

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
^ Where's the picture in question?

its very clear that logan slices up wrecker's lips badly

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/973/wolvie74oroborosdcp021.jpg