Revan vs Caedus

Started by Darth Exodus10 pages
The one thing we do know is that he certainly didn't do it with one arm freshly blown off, a shoulder wound, a thigh wound leaking onto the floor, and while under the astounded impression that he was fighting the greatest swordsman in history. This would be ignoring every other injury he acquired from blasterfire or the concussive effects of being hurled through a row of seats, nor does it factor in the unhealed wounds he'd sustained before the battle.
Not exactly a hundred percent? He just got an arm amputated (plus other unarmed and maybe force hits I believe) and still almost incapacitated her, with two arms that would be double the arcs of lightning coming at Jaina I don't see her being conscious at the very least.

He He, I've just remembered something. The fact that Caedus was in such a bad way, that he had such terrible injuries actually helps my argument. While normally these things would work against a force user, Caedus isn't normal. As Luke puts it,' Jacen thrived on pain, fed on it to make himself stronger and faster'. So therefore it could be theorised that Jacen might actually have been as strong if not even stronger than he normally is. So he could well have been at 100%.

And even if Caedus' double hands lightning could kill, it still isn't as impressive as Revan's. Revan would have had to use double the power to kill at least (and it is at least) two Rakatan then it would take for Caedus to kill one person.

She was still just about dead. Her robes and flesh had been literally burnt, and she was a crumpled heap against the wall rasping out her sermon to Jacen. That after he violently regained his connection to the Force, and while he was a teenager.

Thirteen years later, and now more powerful than even Darth Vader, I think it goes without saying that he would've obliterated her.

Probably, Yeah.

I know. But it was still incredible, and speaks to his Force-prowess as a whole when he was just eighteen.

It is rather Starkiller-esque. I'm now leaning towards Caedus taking about 3-4 Force duels out of 10.

Luke Skywalker can. Palpatine can. Galen Marek can. Talon can. If you're willing to stretch the definition of "human" a little, Maul can, too.

No, 'lethal' levels of electricity are around 3000 volts. No human can live beyond this point no matter how well conditioned. This level of voltage can stop the heart, the lungs, cause internal burns, respiratory arrest and neuropathy and severely damage to the brain.

Those guys above obviously weren't hit with this level of power. I don't know about the others but Luke, even though he survived was extremely F'd up afterwards.

No where did it mention that Jacen was able to summon a Force Storm.

I know you're on my side but yes it does. 'He remembered the wild joy of release as the power of the storm had roared into him and through him and became a mad vortex within the underground chamber, lifting stone and brick and chunks of duracrete to whirl and batter and slash the Yuuzhan Vong, pounding the warriors with pieces of the planet that had once been Jacen's home. A shrug of wind had crushed the Yuuzhan Vong into one corner of the chamber, and he remembered bubbling laughter exploding with malice into a shout of victory as he had reached up his hand and brought down the building around them.

And no offence, but the rest of your post doesn't state anything about power. Malak was a 'true sith' and yet Caedus would beat the flemy crap out of him.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
He He, I've just remembered something. The fact that Caedus was in such a bad way, that he had such terrible injuries actually helps [b]my argument. While normally these things would work against a force user, Caedus isn't normal. As Luke puts it,' Jacen thrived on pain, fed on it to make himself stronger and faster'. So therefore it could be theorised that Jacen might actually have been as strong if not even stronger than he normally is. So he could well have been at 100%.[/b]
There's a difference between being in pain and being virtually incapacitated. After Caedus floored her with lightning, Jaina couldn't even stand up properly. She looked at her brother and noted that he wasn't faring much better - being almost unable to even pick oneself up isn't very good - and she could see utter confusion in his eyes. He was not at full strength.

And even if Caedus' double hands lightning could kill, it still isn't as impressive as Revan's. Revan would have had to use double the power to kill at least (and it is at least) two Rakatan then it would take for Caedus to kill one person.
This actually brings up another issue: time. We have no idea how long it took Revan to kill the warriors with his lightning, but we do know that Caedus only electrocuted Jaina for a moment.

Oh, and prove that Revan is at or even close to Jacen's level of power. The latter was more powerful than Darth Vader, and by extension, approaches OT Sidious - the most powerful dark-sider in the mythos - in overall power.

It is rather Starkiller-esque. I'm now leaning towards Caedus taking about 3-4 Force duels out of 10.
I have no idea whatsoever how you could come to that conclusion. All else aside, you know next to nothing about Revan's ability with the Force.

No, '[b]lethal' levels of electricity are around 3000 volts. No human can live beyond this point no matter how well conditioned. This level of voltage can stop the heart, the lungs, cause internal burns, respiratory arrest and neuropathy and severely damage to the brain.[/b]
Welcome to Star Wars; Bane takes hits of "millions" of volts, twice, with the energy being his own lightning the second time.

Those guys above obviously weren't hit with this level of power. I don't know about the others but Luke, even though he survived was extremely F'd up afterwards.
And yet he was able to not just walk, but drag his several hundred-pound father with him all the way to the docking bay.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Revan created the "One Master - One Apprentice. One to embody the power, the other to crave it"

The Force is stronger than a lightsaber. Revan would annihilate Caedus in a duel of the Force. Why do I say Revan takes all out? Revan would wear Caedus down in the Force. Revan has all the collected knowledge of the Sith. Caedus in my opinion was only partially a Sith. Lumiya was not a true dark lady of the Sith. Kyp would be able to kick her ass.

Caedus FL is not as strong as Revan's. Revan is able to use a FS. For some unknown reason, Lumiya never trained Caedus in the use of FS because she didn't know it. Neither did Vader. Sidious probably knew FS because he was the strongest Sith (maybe), but he didn't teach it to Dooku or Vader. Strange isn't it?

Caedus only received partial training in the dark side. Shadow Academy and Lumiya. He didn't complete it because he didn't kill Lumiya. Luke did. Sure, he killed Mara who was a JM, but that doesn't make him special. Revan collected all of the knowledge of the Sith and learned it because he craved it's power. He despised weakness due to the Mandalorian Wars. Caedus never went to Korriban or Malachor. He was perfectly content to stay aboard the Anakin Solo. Malak was a far better apprentice than Tahiri. Tahiri felt bad about killing. At least Malak tried to kill Revan. Malak was ruthless. A true Sith has to be ruthless. Caedus should have been willing to kill Tenel Ka & Allana. Caedus wasn't.

Revan killed far more Jedi than Caedus. On Korriban he fought his way to destroy his former apprentice and succeeded. Caedus didn't - he stopped fighting Jaina and allowed himself to be killed. Revan never would have let that happen. That is why Caedus would never win. He isn't ruthless enough. He wasn't a true Sith - just another dark side user. Like Zekk once was.

^most epic post ever posted on the internet.

Originally posted by Taven
^most epic post ever posted on the internet.

Did you really never read any of BOOG's posts? They were more epic fail than this one is.

BOOG was funny, what happened to him?

Well I don't know about this BOOG guy but the epic SW Legend level of smooth talking in that post was just insane.

Caedus in my opinion was only partially a Sith. Lumiya was not a true dark lady of the Sith. Kyp would be able to kick her ass.

Caedus only received partial training in the dark side. Shadow Academy and Lumiya. He didn't complete it because he didn't kill Lumiya. Luke did.

A true Sith has to be ruthless. Caedus should have been willing to kill Tenel Ka & Allana. Caedus wasn't.

That is why Caedus would never win. He isn't ruthless enough. He wasn't a true Sith - just another dark side user. Like Zekk once was.

Siriusly.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
The Force is stronger than a lightsaber.

That is not always the case. See Anakin vs Dooku, Dooku had a much greater mastery of the force then Anakin. Luke vs Vader, here Vader had a much a greater master then Luke who barely had any training but Vader couldn't overcome Luke's DS onslaught.

Revan would annihilate Caedus in a duel of the Force.
Annihilate? 😆 Revan may have a chance to win a force duel (though I'd still give Caedus the advantage) but it would be far from annihilation.

Revan would wear Caedus down in the Force.

Because.......

Revan has all the collected knowledge of the Sith

Where the hell are you getting this bs? Show me proof that Revan collected all of the sith knowledge out there. While Revan may have more sith techniques (that we know next to nothing about) Caedus spent 5 years studying the force from various force organizations in the galaxy.

Caedus FL is not as strong as Revan's. Revan is able to use a FS. For some unknown reason, Lumiya never trained Caedus in the use of FS because she didn't know it. Neither did Vader. Sidious probably knew FS because he was the strongest Sith (maybe), but he didn't teach it to Dooku or Vader. Strange isn't it?

Gideon addressed FS vs FL already.
Strange isn't it?

If you know anything about Sidious,then no it isn't.

Caedus only received partial training in the dark side. Shadow Academy and Lumiya.

He may know less sith techniques, but it doesn't give Revan a win because Caedus has shown more variety in techniques that are useful in battle.

Revan collected all of the knowledge of the Sith and learned it because he craved it's power

Once again, where is this bs that Revan learned all of the sith knowledge out there coming from?

He despised weakness due to the Mandalorian Wars. Caedus never went to Korriban or Malachor.

Despising weakness doesn't mean shit, lots of character despise weakness what is your point? And Revan never spent 5 years amongst other force organizations of the galaxy, he has a broader knowledge in the force.

He was perfectly content to stay aboard the Anakin Solo.

Where the hell are you getting this shit from. It was noted by GAG members that he was in the front lines of the terrorist raids on Coruscant. Look at him in the early books of the LOTF series, he was always on the front lines even in space battles. I could easily turn this around and say that Darth Revan isn't noted for his strength on the battlefield but for his tactics/strategies. So how many times was he on the front lines?

Malak was a far better apprentice than Tahiri. Tahiri felt bad about killing. At least Malak tried to kill Revan. Malak was ruthless. A true Sith has to be ruthless. Caedus should have been willing to kill Tenel Ka & Allana. Caedus wasn't.

This has nothing to do with personal power so this means nothing.

Revan killed far more Jedi than Caedus

Great Revan killed a bunch of no name jedi, while Caedus was busy fighting/injuring Luke Skywalker among others.

Caedus didn't - he stopped fighting Jaina and allowed himself to be killed. Revan never would have let that happen.

Once again this has nothing to do with personal prowess, Caedus wanted to save the life of his daughter by warning Tenel Ka since she was with her. If you are trying to suggest that Revan wouldn't do the same for Bastila then your out of your mind. [

That is why Caedus would never win. He isn't ruthless enough.
Isn't ruthless? Your talking about a guy who went to extreme measures to keep his relationship to Tenel Ka and Allana secret. Look at what he did to Tenel Ka's grandmother, Ben Skywalker, what he was willing to do Lumiya to keep the secret. If you read DN trilogy and LOTF then you would know that this isn't true.
He wasn't a true Sith - just another dark side user. Like Zekk once was.

And this "just another dark side user," has demonstrated more force abilites than Revan has. Oh and I agree with Gideon's reasoning of Caedus not being a true sith.

^I lol'd at that Taven, it is only a matter of time till Legend graces up with his perspective of this battle.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
BOOG was funny, what happened to him?

He probably got wacked on the mean streets....of wherever he is from in Florida. 😛

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Revan created the "One Master - One Apprentice. One to embody the power, the other to crave it"

The Force is stronger than a lightsaber. Revan would annihilate Caedus in a duel of the Force. Why do I say Revan takes all out? Revan would wear Caedus down in the Force. Revan has all the collected knowledge of the Sith. Caedus in my opinion was only partially a Sith. Lumiya was not a true dark lady of the Sith. Kyp would be able to kick her ass.

Caedus FL is not as strong as Revan's. Revan is able to use a FS. For some unknown reason, Lumiya never trained Caedus in the use of FS because she didn't know it. Neither did Vader. Sidious probably knew FS because he was the strongest Sith (maybe), but he didn't teach it to Dooku or Vader. Strange isn't it?

Caedus only received partial training in the dark side. Shadow Academy and Lumiya. He didn't complete it because he didn't kill Lumiya. Luke did. Sure, he killed Mara who was a JM, but that doesn't make him special. Revan collected all of the knowledge of the Sith and learned it because he craved it's power. He despised weakness due to the Mandalorian Wars. Caedus never went to Korriban or Malachor. He was perfectly content to stay aboard the Anakin Solo. Malak was a far better apprentice than Tahiri. Tahiri felt bad about killing. At least Malak tried to kill Revan. Malak was ruthless. A true Sith has to be ruthless. Caedus should have been willing to kill Tenel Ka & Allana. Caedus wasn't.

Revan killed far more Jedi than Caedus. On Korriban he fought his way to destroy his former apprentice and succeeded. Caedus didn't - he stopped fighting Jaina and allowed himself to be killed. Revan never would have let that happen. That is why Caedus would never win. He isn't ruthless enough. He wasn't a true Sith - just another dark side user. Like Zekk once was.

Your speech is full of opinions. Provide some sources for Revan's superiority over Caedus. Oh, wait... there are none.

Gideon - "One Master - One Apprentice" see first Darth Bane novel.

Caedus never completed his Sith training if you examine it closely. His training was similar to Vader's - Vader couldn't summon a FS or FL. Nor did Caedus have a formal teacher. He didn't have the collected knowledge of the Sith. If you read the LOTF books, Jacen/Caedus was constantly paranoid for the well being of his daughter. Throughout the series, Caedus restrained his anger except for a few instances. And please tell me, other than Vader has anyone ever heard of a Sith Lord sacrificing themself?

Revan understood what it meant to be Sith. Caedus understood the Sith Code and the way of the Sith is pain. Except I think he didn't fully understand it. He didn't understand that betrayal is also the way of the Sith. Maybe he knew that in order for Tahiri to become a Dark Lady, she would have to kill him. I do not believe Caedus would take that risk. In order for the Sith to remain strong, they must weed out the weak. Revan understood this and so did Malak. They saw the Mandalorians as weak and the Jedi of the era were pathetic as well.

Caedus was obsessed with pain, but when confronted with psychological warfare (Allana and betrayal) he folded like a bad poker player.

How does that have anything to do with how powerful they are in battle?
Caedus ftw.

I forgot to mention ruthless - being ruthless is indiscrimently killing civilians during wartime. Revan and Malak also understood this type of warfare. Revan and Malak waged total war and didn't care who got killed. Typical warfare has you destroy your target and try to minimize civilian causalties. Revan didn't care - he wanted to destroy the enemy's ability to fight and demoralize it's people. Malak learned that from his teacher. The Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War made the 2nd Galactic Civil War look like a border skirmish.

Nobody Jedi? I can see your argument. You make a valid point, but each Jedi killed or turned is a serious blow to the Order. Revan and Malak waged a war of attrition and the Jedi lost. The more soldiers you lose, the less ability to wage war is greatly diminished.

On to the topic of Bastilla - she had Revan outnumbered 4 -1 when Malak attempted to kill Revan. Bastilla saw the potential for Revan's redemption and brought him before the Council where they erased his memory. Revan thus "turned" back to the light side. If Malak didn't attempt to kill him, then it is quite probably he would have killed Bastilla. Again, that part is for speculation.

Elite Hunter - I can always count on your honest opinions. A good valid argument. But, Revan left for the Unknown Regions and the true Sith Empire. He also killed his apprentice who was far more Sith than Caedus could ever have been. What I mean by "perfectly content stay aboard the Anakin Solo" was that he was an armchair Admiral. He used long range turbolaser batteries instead of going for the kill. He didn't trade broadside for broadside. Although his battle awareness was masterful, no battle plan survives in the face of the enemy. As one of my military friends says "tracers work both ways."

He fought and injured the greatest Jedi Master - Luke Skywalker. Quite an accomplishment, but didn't Shimrra nearly kill Luke without the aid of the Force? Luke had Jacen/Caedus at his mercy when Ben distracted him. Elite Hunter, you have the uncanny ability for real good rebuttals. Your opinion?

Revan is a virtual unknown, however, we can agree on one thing. Revan's knowledge of the force vastly exceeds that of Vader's. Revan's mastery of the force is also superior to Vader's so while we know Caedus is more powerful than Vader according to Invincible, we can surmise that Revan is also. Faunus, if you're asking someone to prove that Revan is superior to Caedus, you'll have to do the same with Caedus being superior to Revan. We know Revan's force knowledge exceeds Caedus' as well.

I don't know about Elite Hunter, but I think that Shimraa hurt Luke because Luke was poisoned. Also, Darth Caedus inflicted more damage on Luke in Inferno than anyone else had before. (I could be mistaken though) I don't think Revan would fair as well against Luke as Caedus did..

I'm not entirely sure but I think that the Darth Bane novels state that the more in tune a person is too the dark-side, the stronger in the dark that person will become. This is only baseless speculation, but if it's true then Truculent's arguments could have some merit. Though I would hazard a guess that he wasn't actually aware of this point. 😉

We all agree that Caedus was powerful - nearly on the same level with Luke, but not quite. When Luke was injured by Shimmra he was still able to summon the Force and decapitate him. If it was Revan fighting Shimmra, I don't Revan would have wasted his time in a long drawn out lightsaber battle. Shimrra would have been hit a massive blast of FL and I'm pretty sure there would have been a huge exit wound.

From what I've read, Caedus is the better lightsaber artist and Revan would definitely lose. With the Force, Revan would probably unleash it like a Pit Bull in Michael Vick's house and Caedus would lose. Revan takes the last two because of his experience in combat. Sure Jacen/Caedus fought thet YV & Killicks, but has he fought multpile Mandalorians? No. During the YV War, he was nearly reluctant to kill. Revan wasn't. To be Sith, you absolutely cannot have the hesitation to kill. Why did Jacen/Caedus seem to have a conscious?

To further make a point, Caedus never waged a total war. Revan and Malak did. Revan knows the definition of war and how to fight it. Back to strength in the Force. It would be a good duel in the Force between Revan and Caedus, but Caedus would lose.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Revan is a virtual unknown, however, we can agree on one thing. Revan's knowledge of the force vastly exceeds that of Vader's.

First you "agree" that Revan's Force knowledge exceeds Vader's. Proof? Vader studied under the GREATEST SITH EVA1111(ONE!) He had access to more knowledge than any other Sith in history, with the exception of Palpatine. I can not prove that he actually studied all of it, but would someone searching for power really ignore the chance for more?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Revan's mastery of the force is also superior to Vader's so while we know Caedus is more powerful than Vader according to Invincible, we can surmise that Revan is also.

1. You were talking about Revan already. To say that he is 'also' superior to Vader is not correct. This was clearly a slip up, but when you are trying to one-up everyone who has already posted I suggest you get it right.
2. On what grounds are you surmising that Revan is also more powerful than Vader? Earlier you "agreed" to think so, but consensus is not proof. Before Copernicus (and even after) *everyone* thought that the Sun revolved around the earth. This was false. What the majority thinks (or what words you place into the majority's mouth) is irrelevant. Prove that Revan > Vader or kindly be quiet.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Faunus, if you're asking someone to prove that Revan is superior to Caedus, you'll have to do the same with Caedus being superior to Revan. We know Revan's force knowledge exceeds Caedus' as well.

This was almost clever. You tacked on your baseless assertion to the challenge so that is looked like it was part of the facts. You have no ground to stand on if you want to argue that Revan's Force knowledge exceeds Caedus's. Caedus was once described as a "total master of the Force." Out of universe narration. Suck it. Do you have a source detailing Revan's Force mastery? Is he a "total master of the Force?" No? Then you have nothing. You are simply wrong. Caedus is better than Revan in [Edit: almost] every way.

The feats he has displayed with the Force surpass anything that Revan dreamed of, and he is the second best duelist in a time period that included Luke frikkin Skywalker and Kyp/Kyle I have the same name Durron/Katarn. Caedus is a beast. He is just about the best that the Mythos has to offer. (DE Palpatine/DBZ Luke notwithstanding.) He dwarfs Revan. The comparrison wouldn't even be attempted if not for the widespread Revan wankery that Drew and crew have accomplished.

Revan is nothing.
...

@DT:

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
We all agree that Caedus was powerful - nearly on the same level with Luke, but not quite. When Luke was injured by Shimmra he was still able to summon the Force and decapitate him. If it was Revan fighting Shimmra, I don't Revan would have wasted his time in a long drawn out lightsaber battle. Shimrra would have been hit a massive blast of FL and I'm pretty sure there would have been a huge exit wound.

Your conjecture that Revan would have fared better against the Vong =/= canon.

Revan and Luke have very different methodologies, the most noteworthy difference being the whole "I'm not going to be EVIL" problem that Luke has. Luke didn't rush up and FL spam Shimirra, and it would've been a boring book if he'd use EJ to end the whole series without a fight. PIS/CIS takes the blame for this one. On top of this we can add the fact that while Revan was freaking out about not being able to sense the Vong through the force they would have killed him seven ways from sunday. (I know... sorry.)

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

From what I've read, Caedus is the better lightsaber artist and Revan would definitely lose.

What exactly have you read that would give you that impression? While you are technically correct, I'd love to know what information you have about Revan that the rest of us don't that allows you to pass judgment about his combat capabilities.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

With the Force, Revan would probably unleash it like a Pit Bull in Michael Vick's house and Caedus would lose.

Based on...? Once again, what do you know that we don't?

Anyways, Caedus has a far broader knowledge of the Force, and while it is possible that Revan's greater share of Sith knowledge could turn the tide, Jacen's amazing combat showings lower this probability. Caedus is a proven BEAST. Revan hasn't shown anything at all. Caedus has the advantage.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Revan takes the last two because of his experience in combat.

Caedus doesn't have experience? The whole "The Galaxy has been at war for most of my life" and "I was on the front lines of at least two wars" thing doesn't ring a bell? Try again.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Sure Jacen/Caedus fought thet YV & Killicks, but has he fought multpile Mandalorians? No.

Ah. I see. So he does have experience, but not against TEH MANDALORZ!!!1111. Mandalorians are warriors. They are not gods, nor are they Yahwe's chosen people. (That honor is reserved for the people who killed his kid.) No matter what Karen Traviss tells you, remember: Mandalorians aren't TEH ROXORZ. They suck. And even though she thinks it'd be "cool" to write a language, she can't.

Mandalorians are nothing.

Even if they were something, don't forget that Jacen died because of the Mandalorians- Jaina trained/fought alongside the Mando's, and I think that Caedus killed a few during Invincible. Still-

Mandalorians are nothing.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

During the YV War, he was nearly reluctant to kill. Revan wasn't. To be Sith, you absolutely cannot have the hesitation to kill. Why did Jacen/Caedus seem to have a conscious?

During the war he wasn't a Sith yet. So there goes that problem. Also, how on earth does having a conscience translate to reduced power? Personality can not come into play during these battles or else we'd have Mara Jade/Princess Leia battles end with a tea party. Mindset is irrelevant, as is this insistence you have on proving that Caedus wasn't ruthless enough. (Burning Kashyyk wasn't good enough for you?)
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

To further make a point, Caedus never waged a total war. Revan and Malak did. Revan knows the definition of war and how to fight it. Back to strength in the Force. It would be a good duel in the Force between Revan and Caedus, but Caedus would lose.

Caedus burned the world where some of his childhood friends grew up. If that isn't ruthless then I don't know what is.

I like how you made the assertion that Revan > Caedus but then talked about irrelevancies like personality. That's the way to win a debate: Make baseless assertions and then change the subject. Way to be!

Oh wait... That's not the way to win a debate.

They are not gods, nor are they Yahwe's chosen people. (That honor is reserved for the people who killed his kid.)

Hmmm, This could be seen as a racist statement or at the least inflammmatory/borderline ignorant. I'd take it back if I were you.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I forgot to mention ruthless - being ruthless is indiscrimently killing civilians during wartime. Revan and Malak also understood this type of warfare. Revan and Malak waged total war and didn't care who got killed. Typical warfare has you destroy your target and try to minimize civilian causalties. Revan didn't care - he wanted to destroy the enemy's ability to fight and demoralize it's people. Malak learned that from his teacher. The Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War made the 2nd Galactic Civil War look like a border skirmish.

Nobody Jedi? I can see your argument. You make a valid point, but each Jedi killed or turned is a serious blow to the Order. Revan and Malak waged a war of attrition and the Jedi lost. The more soldiers you lose, the less ability to wage war is greatly diminished.

The ability to wage war is not a feat of personal power so you didn't have to waste time typing this.

On to the topic of Bastilla - she had Revan outnumbered 4 -1 when Malak attempted to kill Revan. Bastilla saw the potential for Revan's redemption and brought him before the Council where they erased his memory.

Bastilla had no clue what was going to become of Revan, in kotor she says something along the lines of "all lives are important even that of a sith lord," "the jedi do not believe in killing their prisoners," and "what greater weapon is there then to turn and enemy to your cause, to use their own knowledge against them." Bastilla saved Revan's life because it was a life, and for the knowledge he had about the sith, she never said anything about seeing potential for redemption. Which has nothing to do with personal power and his redemption is another topic all together.

Elite Hunter - I can always count on your honest opinions. A good valid argument.

You can expect nothing less.

But, Revan left for the Unknown Regions and the true Sith Empire.

I'm not sure what part of my argument this is a rebuttal to since you didn't quote it but I don't see how this particular line matters since this has nothing to do with personal power.

He also killed his apprentice who was far more Sith than Caedus could ever have been.

Malak may have been more of an official sith but that doesn't mean shit unless you are trying to suggest that Malak could take him in fight. Being more of sith doesn't make him more powerful. Caedus is superior to Malak in every single way.

What I mean by "perfectly content stay aboard the Anakin Solo" was that he was an armchair Admiral. He used long range turbolaser batteries instead of going for the kill

So you want Caedus to go to the surface of a hostile planet, full of jedi and wookiees with just his GAG troops? That would have been a terrible move because

A) the wookiees know the terrain better
B) The entire planet would be against him
C) He didn't arrive to Kashyyk with enough troops to even try to occupy the planet
D) It is full of the most powerful jedi in the order while he (and maybe Tahiri) would be the only force user opposing them.
E) If he went down the surface then he couldn't use BM to help the Ga fleet vs the wookiee fleet, and the confederation fleet.

The mandalorian war was a different type of war all together in the entire 2nd GCW there was never any type of planetorial ground invasions/battles that we saw in the mando wars, so how exactly do you want him to be fighting planetside on the frontlines when there was never an opportunity to.

I would also like proof that Revan actually fought on the frontlines in any battle besides Malachor where the only known Mandalorian he killed was Mandalore. Put up or shut up.

Although his battle awareness was masterful, no battle plan survives in the face of the enemy. As one of my military friends says "tracers work both ways."

His BA was great as shown in the ambush on Conruscant but when the enemy are the likes of Jaina Solo, Luke Skywalker and company that tends to happen.

Luke had Jacen/Caedus at his mercy when Ben distracted him

Then after that Caedus fought Luke on even grounds before he got the advantage and injured Luke.

but didn't Shimrra nearly kill Luke without the aid of the Force

There were circumstances around that such as the fact that Shimrra was a vong, the terrain/anti grav.(I think) but I can't go into detail on this since I'm not on my own computer which has the TUF on it so I can answer this.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
We all agree that Caedus was powerful - nearly on the same level with Luke, but not quite. When Luke was injured by Shimmra he was still able to summon the Force and decapitate him. If it was Revan fighting Shimmra, I don't Revan would have wasted his time in a long drawn out lightsaber battle. Shimrra would have been hit a massive blast of FL and I'm pretty sure there would have been a huge exit wound.

Red already addressed this.

From what I've read, Caedus is the better lightsaber artist and Revan would definitely lose. With the Force, Revan would probably unleash it like a Pit Bull in Michael Vick's house and Caedus would lose.

Which you have yet to proven. So far all I read is that "Revan has all the sith knowledge" (which he doesn't) and the force storm feat vs rakatan scouting parties of unknown number who had no defense.

Caedus has a much broader knowledge of the force. His force feats are more impressive then the one's Revan is known for.

Sure Jacen/Caedus fought thet YV & Killicks, but has he fought multpile Mandalorians?

Did you miss the part in Invincible where Caedus completely tools the mandalorians that attack him?

During the YV War, he was nearly reluctant to kill.

Back then Jacen had a completely different view of how the force should be used. So, this how no bearings on Revan vs Caedus not Jacen.

To be Sith, you absolutely cannot have the hesitation to kill. Why did Jacen/Caedus seem to have a conscious?

That was when Jacen was teenager his mind state changed by the end of the war to the DN trilogy. By the end of the 2nd galactic civil war he would have killed any one that could between him and Allana. And for the hundredth time it doesn' matter if Revan was more sithly than Caedus because he would have no moral problem with killing Revan. Being more sithly(following their teachings of how a sith should act) has no bearings on this fight.

To further make a point, Caedus never waged a total war.Revan and Malak did. Revan knows the definition of war and how to fight it.

I already addressed this,there Mandalorian War and the second galactic civil war were nothing a like. Nor were the politcs that led to them. There wasn't a total war mentality in the latter in fact the only times there was, was when Caedus had Kashyyk's forest/cities set ablaze.

Back to strength in the Force. It would be a good duel in the Force between Revan and Caedus, but Caedus would lose.

Sorry but you have not come close to proving so far your arguments have been Revan's forcestorm PNWSORS!,he was more sithly, he knew how rage war and he had more sith knowledge. That is hardly a winning argument.