Revan vs Caedus

Started by Darth Truculent10 pages
Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

Well said Elite Hunter and well argued. But Kashyyk wasn't fully destroyed like Dantooine, Ithor, Dxun, Coruscant and other systems that Revan attacked. It is one thing to have BA, but to strategically plan your targets where it will hurt the enemy the most is crucial. I'm not sure if Caedus would have been willing to use the Mass Shadow Generator at Malachor V.

Major battles like Dxun need to be fought by ground troops and Revan and Malak were the supreme commanders at the time. It is safe to assume that they led at the front lines. They weren't afraid to get their hands dirty you know. A good commander is willing to share the same risks as his/hers troops like the Exile.

Red Nemesis - to be Sith you have to be willing to kill the ones you love most. Bastilla defeated Revan by accident because of Malak's attack. Why do I believe Revan is stronger than Caedus? You made a mention that Caedus was a beast. So was Maul and that would make him the more dangerous fighter. A smart Sith wouldn't lengthen a lightsaber duel - he would use the dark side. Revan was more attuned to the dark side because he craved it's power - Caedus didn't thus he didn't fully master it.

We can assume that Revan's study of the dark side taught him to resist FL. During Jacen/Caedus train he wasn't. He only received partial Sith training. Lumiya was like Maul and Mara (as an Emperor's Hand) - a minion to be used. Vader wasn't a true Dark Lord of the Sith because be wasn't fully human anymore (more cybernetic than man), never completed the training and he didn't attempt to kill Sidious. So what if he can use force choke - didn't Luke use the same power in Jaba's palace? But when it comes to Force, Revan is by far stronger because his knowledge of the dark side and the Sith because he always craved power.

If Revan fought the YV, yes he would be confused by not sensing them in the Force. But then, like a true Sith, he'd counterattack with a total war against them. They wouldn't understand why a Jedi was willing to kill so many civilians and not give a shit.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Hmmm, This could be seen as a racist statement or at the least inflammmatory/borderline ignorant. I'd take it back if I were you.

If it offended you then I'm sorry. I take it back.

Care to address any of my arguments?

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Well said Elite Hunter and well argued. But Kashyyk wasn't fully destroyed like Dantooine, Ithor, Dxun, Coruscant and other systems that Revan attacked. It is one thing to have BA, but to strategically plan your targets where it will hurt the enemy the most is crucial. I'm not sure if Caedus would have been willing to use the Mass Shadow Generator at Malachor V.

Caedus's willingness to use a powerful weapon has no effect on a one on one battle. There are no bystanders here, so apathy to collateral damage is irrelevant.

Ground battles are only fought when they have to be- a commander doesn't look for more logistical challenges. Landing troops is a complication that can be avoided if one army attains space control. Caedus had neither the need nor the desire to land on Kashyyk. So he didn't.

Revan didn't attack Dantooine. Just sayin.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Major battles like Dxun need to be fought by ground troops and Revan and Malak were the supreme commanders at the time. It is safe to assume that they led at the front lines. They weren't afraid to get their hands dirty you know. A good commander is willing to share the same risks as his/hers troops like the Exile.

You said this already, although you have not supported it. Repetition does not make something true. If it did I would be very, very rich. Also, proof that Revan was on the front lines? And another thing: Caedus was on the front lines: that was part of the problem with him joining the GA police force. There was a Jedi conducting raids.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Red Nemesis - to be Sith you have to be willing to kill the ones you love most. Bastilla defeated Revan by accident because of Malak's attack. Why do I believe Revan is stronger than Caedus? You made a mention that Caedus was a beast. So was Maul and that would make him the more dangerous fighter. A smart Sith wouldn't lengthen a lightsaber duel - he would use the dark side. Revan was more attuned to the dark side because he craved it's power - Caedus didn't thus he didn't fully master it.

In reverse order of your assertions:
1. Only one Sith ever mastered the Dark Side: Palpatine. Revan didn't, and neither did Caedus. I'm not sure what your point is here.
2. You want to say that Revan would bring the duel into a Force contest? Fine. Caedus would win. He is stronger in the force (Skywalker blood FTW) and has superior training (he was described as a 'total master of the force.'😉. Caedus's Force knowledge is broader than Revan's and his greater versatility, strength and skill would carry the day.
3. I used the word 'beast' as an intensifier to the assertion that 'Caedus is.' I meant to emphasize his power without having to go into detail. I suppose that it was lazy, but in no way should he be likened to Maul: Caedus is much more intelligent and powerful then Maul ever hoped to be. Caedus is a tactician/Strategist, while Maul was a tool. There is a big difference.
4. Bastilla did not defeat Revan- the two never fought. Revan simply fell down (/was knocked out.)
5. How does a resolve to kill the people close to you translate into power that can be used in a vs. fight?
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

We can assume that Revan's study of the dark side taught him to resist FL. During Jacen/Caedus train he wasn't. He only received partial Sith training. Lumiya was like Maul and Mara (as an Emperor's Hand) - a minion to be used. Vader wasn't a true Dark Lord of the Sith because be wasn't fully human anymore (more cybernetic than man), never completed the training and he didn't attempt to kill Sidious. So what if he can use force choke - didn't Luke use the same power in Jaba's palace? But when it comes to Force, Revan is by far stronger because his knowledge of the dark side and the Sith because he always craved power.

Proof that Revan was taught to resist FL? There is no such proof. You know what happens when you assume: you make an ass out of you and me.

It seems to me that your argument is that Revan could defeat Caedus because Caedus wasn't as fluent in the Sith teachings. While it is true that Caedus's knowledge of Sith techniques is limited, he has a broader knowledge overall than most Force users in history. Regardless of his knowledge of Sith techniques, he is still far more powerful than Revan is.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

If Revan fought the YV, yes he would be confused by not sensing them in the Force. But then, like a true Sith, he'd counterattack with a total war against them. They wouldn't understand why a Jedi was willing to kill so many civilians and not give a shit.

One can not wage war against an individual. We are clearly talking at cross purposes: I am trying to discern Revan's individual power level, while you appear to be discussing his ability as a commander. The two are very different, and only the former applies in a battle.

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Well said Elite Hunter and well argued. But Kashyyk wasn't fully destroyed

Because of the Confederation invention,jedi's stealth X counter attack and then Hapan fleet arriving and then betraying Caedus.

like Dantooine, Ithor, Dxun, Coruscant and other systems that Revan attacked.

Wait, when did Revan attack Dantooine or Ithor? Is there any proof that Revan was on Dxun during the mando. war? I know for a fact that Revan,Malak or the mandos. never attacked Coruscant.

It is one thing to have BA, but to strategically plan your targets where it will hurt the enemy the most is crucial. I'm not sure if Caedus would have been willing to use the Mass Shadow Generator at Malachor V.

I'm growing tired of answering rebuttals about military strategies, which have nothing to do with who is more powerful in the force. Btw considering Caedus ordered the bombardment of Kashyyk knowing full well who was on it not to mention the sentimental value the planet has among the Solo family then I don't see why he wouldn't use the MSG at malachor if he was there. But like I said this has nothing to do with one on one combat so let's drop it after this post.

Major battles like Dxun need to be fought by ground troops and Revan and Malak were the supreme commanders at the time. It is safe to assume that they led at the front lines. They weren't afraid to get their hands dirty you know. A good commander is willing to share the same risks as his/hers troops like the Exile.

Revan is known for his military strategies, the only known battle that he was somewhat on the frontlines is Malachor where we only know that he killed Mandalore the Ultimate. Provide evidence that Revan was personally on the front lines or drop it.

Why do I believe Revan is stronger than Caedus? You made a mention that Caedus was a beast. So was Maul and that would make him the more dangerous fighter.

Maul has never shown to a master of the force compared to the upper tier characters. But physically, Maul is a beast in his own right.

A smart Sith wouldn't lengthen a lightsaber duel - he would use the dark side. Revan was more attuned to the dark side because he craved it's power - Caedus didn't thus he didn't fully master it.

This is wrong, Dooku was the one who started the lightsaber duel with Yoda, Sidious fought Mace in a lightssaber duel until he was disarmed despite being stronger in the force, Exar Kun faced his former master in a ligthsaber duel despite the fact that he could tool him in the force. I could go on but I don't have enough time to. How the sith attack their opponents is based on the situation or personal preference. And what is this none sense that Caedus didn't crave power? He was the one who came up with the idea of arresting then chief of state Cal Omas and while meeting with the Moffs during Invicble Caedus is thinking about himself being emperor of an empire and sitting on a throne(which when he thought he was fighting Luke, he makes a reference to this in his mind.) Provide real physical evidence that Revan is stronger in the force or drop it.

We can assume that Revan's study of the dark side taught him to resist FL. During Jacen/Caedus train he wasn't. He only received partial Sith training.

No Caedus, was just trained to resist pain on unholy levels that force sensitive wise only Sion could match/beat. Plus he spent 5 years studying the force teaching of organizations that Revan has never seen.

But when it comes to Force, Revan is by far stronger because his knowledge of the dark side and the Sith because he always craved power.

If this is your only point in your argument then your argument fails. Revan may have more sith knowledge but Caedus has knowledge from a third source(other then jedi or sith) and that is all the force organizations that he trained/learned with during 5 year journey. Not to mention that has shown alot more in the force then Revan.

I have to go out know, probably for the rest of the day so when I get a chance to come back on I expect to see actual force feats/display of his force knowledge in action that we use to judge Revan's power not just his knowledge in the force because just by going by force knowledge only, Revan loses. And please don't list anymore strategy crap.

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

I had a huge rebutall written and my computer froze.

Red, you make a mention a mention of the Mando's. I have a friend who is an Army Ranger and he said the attack on Caedus was suicide. A couple of well placed proton cores and the entire facility would have been destroyed. No need for Jaina and both the Moffs and Caedus would have been killed. 2GCW over.

Caedus didn't have a formal Sith teacher. His master was Luke. Sure Vergere and Lumiya taught him the ways of the dark side, but he never mastered the ways of the Sith. Yes he was a master of the Force, but it was the Jedi arts - not the way of the Sith. He wasn't willing to kill his daughter - he should have been. He should have destroyed Hapes. He couldn't seem to find a decent Sith apprentice. Tahiri was weak because she was obsessed with Anakin. Ben, strong in the Force was basically a carbon copy of his father.

Caedus killed Mara and that was an accomplishment. Before a Jedi Master, she was a trained assasin, veteran of the first GCW and YV War. She nearly killed him with lightsaber and the use of the Force. He cheated (which is a way of the Sith) to eliminate her. Everyone makes a point that he held his own against Luke, but what if Luke found out that he had killed his wife? Caedus would have been dead in less than 10 seconds.

Back to Revan, I do believe that Revan was responsible for creating the Sith'ari - Sidious. It was Revan was amassed and studied the collected knowledge of the Sith. He was far stronger in the dark side, far stronger in the Force. The only way for Caedus to be able to defeat Revan is if he received Sith training from Sidious.

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I had a huge rebutall written and my computer froze.
Pity.

Red, you make a mention a mention of the Mando's. I have a friend who is an Army Ranger and he said the attack on Caedus was suicide. A couple of well placed proton cores and the entire facility would have been destroyed. No need for Jaina and both the Moffs and Caedus would have been killed. 2GCW over.
You don't need military personnel to point out PIS.

Caedus didn't have a formal Sith teacher.
Neither did Revan.

His master was Luke. Sure Vergere and Lumiya taught him the ways of the dark side, but he never mastered the ways of the Sith. Yes he was a master of the Force, but it was the Jedi arts - not the way of the Sith.
He mastered elements of everything; you don't seem to understand that there are sects beyond the Jedi and Sith studying the Force.

He wasn't willing to kill his daughter - he should have been. He should have destroyed Hapes. He couldn't seem to find a decent Sith apprentice. Tahiri was weak because she was obsessed with Anakin. Ben, strong in the Force was basically a carbon copy of his father.
Relevancy is cool.

Caedus killed Mara and that was an accomplishment. Before a Jedi Master, she was a trained assasin, veteran of the first GCW and YV War. She nearly killed him with lightsaber and the use of the Force. He cheated (which is a way of the Sith) to eliminate her.
... And? You're arguing for Caedus now?

Everyone makes a point that he held his own against Luke, but what if Luke found out that he had killed his wife? Caedus would have been dead in less than 10 seconds.
Prove it.

Back to Revan, I do believe that Revan was responsible for creating the Sith'ari - Sidious. It was Revan was amassed and studied the collected knowledge of the Sith.
He didn't "amass" anything. He went to Malachor and studied. Sidious is the one who spent over two decades scouring the galaxy in search of more knowledge.

He was far stronger in the dark side, far stronger in the Force.
Prove it.

The only way for Caedus to be able to defeat Revan is if he received Sith training from Sidious.
If your next post is as ridiculous as this one, I'm going to report you for stupidity.

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

Stupidy - hmm. Look at the broader spectrum. Didn't Revan go to Korriban and the Unknown Regions? Who do you think gave Sidious the knowledge of the Sith. I mean passed to him by Pelagius - it came from Bane who got it from Revan.

Read Inferno again when Jacen/Caedus was being attended to by a medic. He was worried about his next fight with Luke because Luke would not hold anything back. Luke had mastered the Force and lightsaber combat and developed another lightsaber form.

It is true that Revan did not have a formal teacher, but he did learn immense Sith power from Traya. Malachor V and Korriban taught Revan more about the dark side than Vergere or Lumiya. Vergere and Lumiya had no where near the power of Traya. Why did I make a mention about Mara - Caedus felt that was the sacrifice, but Allana betraying him was in fact the sacrifice. Caedus didn't understand betrayal. He didn't understand that in order for the Sith to remain strong, they must root out the weak. Revan knew this and this is why he chose Malak as his apprentice. Revan and Malak despised weakness and believed that those who asked for mercy didn't deserve it.

I cannot figure out why Caedus didn't choose a better canidate to succeed him. Can someone help me out there?

Darth Sexy Restricted

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

First you "agree" that Revan's Force knowledge exceeds Vader's. Proof? Vader studied under the GREATEST SITH EVA1111(ONE!) He had access to more knowledge than any other Sith in history, with the exception of Palpatine. I can not prove that he actually studied all of it, but would someone searching for power really ignore the chance for more?


And the new kid on the forum starts to embarrass himself trying to talk down to me. I don't HAVE to prove Revan's force knowledge exceeds Vader's. Revan had all of Korriban and the underground cities of Malachor V, including holocrons. Vader had what Sidious CHOSE to teach him. He was not a historian nor is there ANY indication that he learned even an iota of what Revan knew. You lose.

1. You were talking about Revan already. To say that he is 'also' superior to Vader is not correct. This was clearly a slip up, but when you are trying to one-up everyone who has already posted I suggest you get it right.
2. On what grounds are you surmising that Revan is also more powerful than Vader? Earlier you "agreed" to think so, but consensus is not proof. Before Copernicus (and even after) *everyone* thought that the Sun revolved around the earth. This was false. What the majority thinks (or what words you place into the majority's mouth) is irrelevant. Prove that Revan > Vader or kindly be quiet.[/quote]
Continually embarrassing yourself Nebaris-style isn't going to make your argument any more logical. The proof is already against Vader so I don't have to prove anything. Seriously, you're an idiot.

This was almost clever. You tacked on your baseless assertion to the challenge so that is looked like it was part of the facts. You have no ground to stand on if you want to argue that Revan's Force knowledge exceeds Caedus's. Caedus was once described as a "total master of the Force." Out of universe narration. Suck it. Do you have a source detailing Revan's Force mastery? Is he a "total master of the Force?" No? Then you have nothing. You are simply wrong. Caedus is better than Revan in [Edit: almost] every way.

Revan's knowledge of the force= Korriban+Malachor V+ Lehon. Vader's knowledge of the force= what little Sidious offered to teach him. "Suck it" isn't a valid response when you're getting verbally raped.

The feats he has displayed with the Force surpass anything that Revan dreamed of, and he is the second best duelist in a time period that included Luke frikkin Skywalker and Kyp/Kyle I have the same name Durron/Katarn. Caedus is a beast. He is just about the best that the Mythos has to offer. (DE Palpatine/DBZ Luke notwithstanding.) He dwarfs Revan. The comparrison wouldn't even be attempted if not for the widespread Revan wankery that Drew and crew have accomplished.

ROFL@this. I mean you were already looking like a total buffoon when you started your rant, but now it's just getting sad. You shouldn't post on this forum anymore unless you want to get wtfpwned.

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

You are not looking at the broader spectrum - CAEDUS did not have complete Sith training! That's like saying someone who didn't complete Marine Basic is a Marine. Knowledge is power and that is what Revan desired and that is what he got. Caedus never desired complete knowledge - he wanted to stop a war. Think! You're attening college. Caedus became a "Sith" because he felt total control brought total peace. But there is no truth in that.

You are saying that Caedus is more powerful then Revan, but reverse roles and have Caedus attempt to destroy the SF. I don't think he would have the capacity to destroy it. Would he fight Tenel Ka for arguments sake we'll say she turned to the dark side? Like the little ***** he was, he wouldn't. At least Revan fought Bastilla. Revan left Bastilla for the Unknown Regions to fight the true threat. Caedus didn't want anything to happen to his precious daughter and lover.

May I remind you that Caedus was killed by his sister who was by far inferior to him in the Force! Caedus allowed himself to be killed to "warn Tenel Ka about the danger." A true Sith wouldn't care - he cares about total victory. Unlimited power too. He was no Sith - just a wanabe.

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

Darth Revan is a potential candidate, since his destroying of the Star Forge greatly reduced the Sith's numbers, at the same time, bringing about the eventual purge of the Jedi Order. His holocron also provided Bane with the foundation to create the Rule of Two, which would lead to the Jedi Order's downfall. He also was in a hair's reach from completely conquering the galaxy. Later, Kreia alluded to the idea that Revan was above the influence of the Dark Side. Revan indeed was above the darkside's influence and is one of the greatest Jedi in history, but still the most likely candidate for the Sith'ari as it is not necessary to be a Sith in order to be a Sith'ari. He is also the only candidate other than Darth Caedus to be able to use lightside and darkside powers at the same time, and not being able to do so is another restriction.

see my post in EU about the Sith'ari - I think it'll prove a case

Gideon Restricted

Truculent, you're on the fastlane to a universal ignored status on KMC. Here's some simple truths:

- Darth Caedus did not have 'complete Sith training.' So ****ing what? This guy spent a five year galactic sojourn learning disciplines from pretty much every existing Force cult. His knowledge of the Force is most decidedly broader than Revan's, even if his knowledge of the Sith isn't.

- Darth Vader vs. Darth Revan is pointless. While Sidious is miles above Revan in Sith knowledge, Vader isn't. Vader wasn't a scholar; he was content with limited Force techniques. And why not? They worked. Telekinesis seemed to be his preferred and primary weapon of choice, and he was obscenely powerful with it. Knowledge is in Revan's favor, but power is still up for debate.

- Caedus being a wannabe Sith has nothing to do with his abilities in combat. Darth Bandon was a 'true Sith', but Caedus would still do unholy things to him in combat, regardless of status.

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

Gideon - I just got on a rant. Sometimes I do that without thinking. Have a big enough mouth to put my foot in it.

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

Sorry everyone - just the stupid Irish blood in me. Forgive me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CLwxObfaNE

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Here I thought this was just honest fun and you had to go and be (unsuccessfully) antagonistic. Before you start lecturing me about seniority why don't you master the quote function. Sound good big guy?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And the new kid on the forum starts to embarrass himself trying to talk down to me. I don't HAVE to prove Revan's force knowledge exceeds Vader's. Revan had all of Korriban and the underground cities of Malachor V, including holocrons. Vader had what Sidious CHOSE to teach him. He was not a historian nor is there ANY indication that he learned even an iota of what Revan knew. You lose.

As much as it pains me to admit it, you are probably right here. I think that I will concede the Vader/Revan knowledge argument, because Vader's showings do not indicate that he has a superior knowledge of the Force. Point conceded.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

[Failed attempt at a quote]
Continually embarrassing yourself Nebaris-style isn't going to make your argument any more logical. The proof is already against Vader so I don't have to prove anything. Seriously, you're an idiot.

Lets not say anything that can't be taken back! The point has already been conceded though, so we can move on.

Just one more thing: to quote something you have to put '[ quote ]' before you put the endquote tag. If you don't, you might look like a hypocritical idiot.


[quote]Originally posted by ME:
This was almost clever. You tacked on your baseless assertion to the challenge so that is looked like it was part of the facts. You have no ground to stand on if you want to argue that Revan's Force knowledge exceeds Caedus's. Caedus was once described as a "total master of the Force." Out of universe narration. Suck it. Do you have a source detailing Revan's Force mastery? Is he a "total master of the Force?" No? Then you have nothing. You are simply wrong. Caedus is better than Revan in [Edit: almost] every way.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Revan's knowledge of the force= Korriban+Malachor V+ Lehon. Vader's knowledge of the force= what little Sidious offered to teach him. "Suck it" isn't a valid response when you're getting verbally raped.
[/quote]
It is interesting that you would chose to belabor the Vader/Revan point when the portion of my post that this was in response to was clearly talking about Caedus. It shows that you would rather avoid the topic whenever you can. I might not have been as long as you, but it seems to me like the better debater is the one that can make a coherent point in support of their position. I might be way off base here, but aren't you trying to prove that Revan could take Caedus in a fight? I conceded the off topic part specifically to make it easier for you. I'll make it clear: On what grounds (if any) do you base your assertion that Revan would win in a fight with Darth Caedus.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

ROFL@this. I mean you were already looking like a total buffoon when you started your rant, but now it's just getting sad. You shouldn't post on this forum anymore unless you want to get wtfpwned.

How specifically does this prove your point? Attacking me doesn't make my arguments get any less forceful. Prove me wrong or tell me that you just want a flame war so that we can get this over with. The truth is that without the distraction of a flame war you will have to admit that you took an untenable position: Revan will never be able to take Jacen/Caedus in a fight.

I will reiterate:
1. Caedus has shown a staggering variety of Force powers, many of which never before seen in the saga.
2. He has been confirmed as more powerful than his grandfather (Darth Vader) by out of universe narration.
3. His showings rival and in some places surpass LotF Luke Skywalker- who is among (possibly the) greatest Force users in the Mythos.

Based on these facts (and some perspective from the rest of the saga) we can place Darth Caedus above most of the known Force users. Calling me a 'buffoon' or 'idiot' (which is a reportable offense now) will not change the fact that Jacen's showings as a Sith surpass all conjecture and extrapolation about Revan's.

When you respond, go ahead and take your time (remember to use both quote tags) and address the issues, not my seniority online. Who knows? You might even make a point!

Faunus Boss

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Revan is a virtual unknown, however, we can agree on one thing. Revan's knowledge of the force vastly exceeds that of Vader's.
Probably.

Revan's mastery of the force is also superior to Vader's
Prove it.

so while we know Caedus is more powerful than Vader according to Invincible, we can surmise that Revan is also.
This makes no sense.

Faunus, if you're asking someone to prove that Revan is superior to Caedus, you'll have to do the same with Caedus being superior to Revan.
Obi-Wan Kenobi is superior to Revan. Prove me wrong.

We know Revan's force knowledge exceeds Caedus' as well.
No, we don't. For starters - according to Gideon, who I will note personally disputes the validity of the claim - Lumiya states that Caedus had a wider knowledge base than Palpatine. As it is, he spent five years travelling the galaxy, learning obscure techniques from obscure sects, while Revan was limited to what was gathered on the old strongholds of Malachor V and Ziost, and the ruins of Korriban. We don't even know how much of that he actually managed to get through, or how skilled he actually ended up being, while Caedus - between his illusions, the flow-walk, the Vong-sense, and his physical resistance to pain - has made his mastery of elements both physical and supernatural undisputable.

Elite Hunter Senior Member
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I had a huge rebutall written and my computer froze.

At least you can go on your own computer right now 😠

Red, you make a mention a mention of the Mando's. I have a friend who is an Army Ranger and he said the attack on Caedus was suicide

The mandos were originally going to eliminate the moff council at Nickel One which means that they need to be well armed because of all the imperial body guards and storm troopers present on the ship. The fact that there attack on Caedus(I don't even think they knew he was there originally till Jaina warned them and he walked out into the room with the moffs) became a "suicidal" one speaks for Caedus's skills not the lack of the mandalorians.

A couple of well placed proton cores and the entire facility would have been destroyed. No need for Jaina and both the Moffs and Caedus would have been killed. 2GCW over.

We could be here all days debating the strategy use but it does not diminish Caedus's feat so this point fails.

Caedus didn't have a formal Sith teacher.

As Faunus pointed out,neither did Revan.

His master was Luke. Sure Vergere and Lumiya taught him the ways of the dark side, but he never mastered the ways of the Sith

And Revan never studied the ways of force cults such as Aing-Tii, Theran Listeners, Fallanassi, Dathomiri witches, Jensaarai among others. It is also possible that Caedus knew sith techniques that revan didn't such as the sith variant of battle medidation which there is no evidence that Revan knew. But for the millionth time sith knowledge doesn't equal win otherwise the sith should never lose a duel.

He wasn't willing to kill his daughter - he should have been.

Which once again does not matter since Revan isn't Allana. So you can stop bringing this up.

Caedus killed Mara and that was an accomplishment. Before a Jedi Master, she was a trained assasin, veteran of the first GCW and YV War. She nearly killed him with lightsaber and the use of the Force. He cheated (which is a way of the Sith) to eliminate her

What you fail to mention is that Mara had the advantage because of the terrain which she wisely chose since she knew her force abilities were not match for his on neutral ground.

eryone makes a point that he held his own against Luke, but what if Luke found out that he had killed his wife?

You mean by coming giving in/using the dark side. Are you trying to suggest that Luke wasn't as nearly as mad in Inferno when he saw his only surviving nephew that he himself trained torturing his only immediate only son with the possibly that Ben turns to the darkside or dies.

Caedus would have been dead in less than 10 seconds.
😆 I'd love to see you prove it.

Back to Revan, I do believe that Revan was responsible for creating the Sith'ari - Sidious.

Bane was the sithari.

It was Revan was amassed and studied the collected knowledge of the Sith.

Once again there is no proof that Revan mastered all of the sith knowledge.

He was far stronger in the dark side, far stronger in the Force

Prove it, Caedus has jedi knowledge,sith knowledge and the knowledge of force cults that Revan never studied not to mention he is off skywalker blood and sadly, Revan is not.

The only way for Caedus to be able to defeat Revan is if he received Sith training from Sidious.

Or he could kill him in a lightsaber duel,cut off Revan from the force thus making him as good as dead or he could paralyze Revan as Caeuds has done to soldiers in DN and LOTF, to name a few. The fact of the matter is that Caedus has shown more abilities the Revan.

Didn't Revan go to Korriban and the Unknown Regions?

there is no proof that he learned anything in the unknown regions.

Who do you think gave Sidious the knowledge of the Sith

Sidious's sith knowledge came from a lot of different sources even from ancient sith such as Naga Sadow not just what Bane passed down that he learned from Revan. Sidious's knowledge>Revan's.

I mean passed to him by Pelagius - it came from Bane who got it from Revan.

Bane also had access to Freedon Nadd's holocron and Belia Darzu's holocron as well.

Read Inferno again when Jacen/Caedus was being attended to by a medic. He was worried about his next fight with Luke because Luke would not hold anything back. Luke had mastered the Force and lightsaber combat and developed another lightsaber form.

How is this a knock on Caedus? Luke Skywalker could take anyone in one on one combat. Luke spared Caedus's life because he didn't want Ben to go to the darkside then later on in the series he says that he can't be the one to kill Caedus because of a dark taint in him that could make himself fall.

t is true that Revan did not have a formal teacher, but he did learn immense Sith power from Traya

Traya was not a sith when Revan learned the ways of the sith, Kreia didn't teach him sith knowledge, plus he fell and discovered Malachor way before she did.

Malachor V and Korriban taught Revan more about the dark side than Vergere or Lumiya. Vergere and Lumiya had no where near the power of Traya

Traya (as Kreia) was his jedi master she was never his sith master. You have to understand there is more to the force then just jedi and sith knowledge!

Revan knew this and this is why he chose Malak as his apprentice. Revan and Malak despised weakness and believed that those who asked for mercy didn't deserve it.

This has nothing to do with personal power,Caedus would never ask for mercy nor would he show Revan any. Stop bring up useless points.

I cannot figure out why Caedus didn't choose a better canidate to succeed him. Can someone help me out there?

Ben deserted him for a number of reasons, none of the jedi trusted himbut Tahiri, thanks to her memories of Anakin.) then they wanted to put a stop to his reign There was a war going on so he couldn't exactly travel the galaxy to find someone to be his apprentice.

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
You are not looking at the broader spectrum

No,you aren't looking at the broader spectrum, which is there is more to the force then just sith knowledge. Caedus had a broader knowledge of the force then Revan, that is a fact.

Knowledge is power

And Caedus's knowledge of the force surpasses Revan....
and that is what Revan desired and that is what he got

Good for Revan, and he countless characters that did the same.

Caedus never desired complete knowledge - he wanted to stop a war

What part of traveling the galaxy for 5 years and studying the force do you not comprehend. And Revan became a sith to protect the galaxy from a war to come-similar reasons,no.

Caedus became a "Sith" because he felt total control brought total peace. But there is no truth in that.

Revan became a sith and conquer the galaxy to protect it from the sith empire in the unknown regions. Once again being a sith doesn't make you all powerful otherwise the sith would have ruled the galaxy more times then have.

You are saying that Caedus is more powerful then Revan, but reverse roles and have Caedus attempt to destroy the SF. I don't think he would have the capacity to destroy it

That is your opinion, but Caedus has just as much if not more combat experience as Revan.
Would he fight Tenel Ka for arguments sake we'll say she turned to the dark side? Like the little ***** he was, he wouldn't.

Did you miss the part where he would let no one get between him and Allana even if that person was Tenel Ka.

At least Revan fought Bastilla. Revan left Bastilla for the Unknown Regions to fight the true threat. Caedus didn't want anything to happen to his precious daughter and lover.

If Revan didn't want to protect Bastilla then she would have went with him...
ay I remind you that Caedus was killed by his sister who was by far inferior to him in the Force!

Great argument, did you miss the fact that in the first duel one of his arms was useless since she shot it with a rifle while he was fighting the mandalaroian commandos. Then he let her cut off the useless arm,nearly killed. Half of the duel he thought he was facing Luke Skywalker thanks to an illusion and he put a blood trail on her so she could lead him to the jedi base.

Then before the second duel even started she hid herself in the force so she couldn't be detected then stabbed him from behind into his stomach and during the duel she noted multiple times that she could not believe that Caedus was attacking her as fiercely as he was with multiple injuries including the lack of an arm yet he still almost killed the sword of the jedi who just got done receiving special "jedi hunting/combat" training from Boba Fett.

Caedus allowed himself to be killed to "warn Tenel Ka about the danger."

Which means at the very least he could have taken Jaina down with him.

A true Sith wouldn't care - he cares about total victory. Unlimited power too. He was no Sith - just a wanabe.

Lol, this wannabe sith has demonstrated more abilities then "true sith." How about you come up with a better argument that is not based on who is more sithly.

Darth Sexy Restricted

Originally posted by Faunus
Probably.

Prove it.

This makes no sense.

Obi-Wan Kenobi is superior to Revan. Prove me wrong.


For the most part, in the SW mythos, more knowledge has equated to more power. We know Revan has vastly more knowledge than Vader, and there's absolutely NOTHING that puts Vader above Revan. So while you keep spitting out "prove it", I'll do the same.

No, we don't. For starters - according to Gideon, who I will note personally disputes the validity of the claim - Lumiya states that Caedus had a wider knowledge base than Palpatine. As it is, he spent five years travelling the galaxy, learning obscure techniques from obscure sects, while Revan was limited to what was gathered on the old strongholds of Malachor V and Ziost, and the ruins of Korriban. We don't even know how much of that he actually managed to get through, or how skilled he actually ended up being, while Caedus - between his illusions, the flow-walk, the Vong-sense, and his physical resistance to pain - has made his mastery of elements both physical and supernatural undisputable. [/B]

Please name me anything Caedus learned that is valuable in a fight. What we DO know is Revan learned techniques that made Bane shit his pants. And Lumiya's word isn't absolute, because it's been disproved by various sources. It is possible that Caedus has learned techniques Palpatine hasn't heard of but it's equally as possible, even likely, that Revan and Palpatine know techniques Caedus hasn't ever heard of.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic
What we DO know is Revan learned techniques that made Bane shit his pants.

Please name me anything Revan taught Bane that is valuable in a fight.

Darth Sexy Restricted
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Please name me anything Revan taught Bane that is valuable in a fight.

We don't know what Revan taught Bane. We know Bane was afraid to learn some of the techniques in the holocron and the one thing he DID take was the thought bomb. Not to mention you haven't made a single valid point in your half assed argument, so leave it to the big boys now.