Elite Hunter
Senior Member
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Vader was also more machine than man. We know that the sith fuel their bodies with anger. We know Bane was dying of poison and he prolonged his life by killing others and feeding off of their death. This is the way of the sith. There is nothing to suggest that Caedus is the only one who can take pain and continue. As a sith he fed off of it, so no.
That wasn't the type of ex. I was looking for because Bane killed boys and their father they could never pose a threat to him under normal circumstances, hell I wonder what theire chances would have been if they tried to kill Bane. But this example is not exactly what I was looking for since Bane wasn't fighting a powerful opponent. Do you have any other examples that of sith being able to take wounds that would leave others "paralyze" or how about the fact that Caedus could take
multiple wounds that others may not be able to take and still put up a fight such as he does in Inferno.
How does this have to do with anything since Jaina is only a Jedi Knight, and since she has never fought another sith.
You don't think that during the invasion there weren't times that left the jedi wondering how much damage a vong could take in battle and still continue to fight. Jaina has experience fighting warriors who worship pain and love it. Yet she couldn't understand how here brother was still able to fight her as intently as he did.
WHAT force abilities? The only thing I would give Caedus credit for is shatterpoint. Other than that, Revan has the combination of the underground cities of Malachor V, and the ruins of Korriban which vastly surpass any darkside teachings Caedus would have.
I have no problem admitting that Revan has superior ds knowledge but Caedus spent 5 years studying the force abroad and look at all the abilities he came back with that are helpful in combat. We don't know what abilities would help him, as Red already posted Bane was scared of rituals not combat abilities so that hurts the argument of Revan learned devastatingly powerful combat abilities. Seeing as how we don't know shit about what those abilities are hurts your argument.
But I would like to bring the use of the sith variant of battle meditation to ahead since Caedus knows yet Revan who studied on Malachor and Korriban does not possess the technique since he would have used it during the JCW especially when Bastilla was using it to aid the republic so even with his superior ds knowledge there is at the very least one sith technique(I know it is useless here) that Revan does not have which makes me question what others that there might be. But we can't argue what ifs so I'm going to leave it at that.
I agree that he is a a relatively unknown character but that alone doesn't give Caedus a victory.
But since we have to go by what we do know, I can't see Revan emerging as the victor.
Aleema could produce illusions. So what
Could Aleema produce illusions that manipulated
Luke Skywalker into thinking his wife was in serious danger of dying or could her illusions make Luke ignorant to the fact that Lumiya was standing mere feet from him. (though Luke could sense he could only do so faintly and had no clue she was literally standing in front of him)
As shown in his duel with Mara illusions can very effective in battle even if it causes only a split second of hesitation from your opponent.
He cut a 13 year old off from the force. That's a great ability but how are you going to do that to a powerful force user? A 13 year old doesn't count. I don't
Kreia was able to cut off 3 experienced jedi masters who were expecting a fight from the force so it is possible. You also have to look at how casually he does it to Ben who didn't even know it happened to him till he tried to use the force.
I don't recall him EVER outrunning blaster fire.
I did a quick check in Betreyal and couldn't find it. Although I'm positive it exists I'll drop it until I could find it though it doesn't take away from him and Luke moving as blurs in inferno.
Revan also had precog and awareness, and arguably greater than Caedus, seeing as how he was the closest one to ever destroy the republic by force.
That can also be attributed to the fact that he
A) Had 1/3 of the republic fleet under his command
B) There was a one-two year gap between the mando. war and the JCW so the republic was not close to a complete recovery.
C) Star forge supplied ships
D)The very first known attack was on the shipyards at Foerost (which was a surprise attack too) where the sith captured the flee that was docked at the drydocks.
Caedus's battle awareness was very impressive in the 4v1 ambush where he used it to plot the trajectories of the incoming (GAG?) speeders which the jedi barely registered and was able to alter the course of one to help him injure Katarn who realized what was happening too late to stop it.
Except virtually ANY darkside teachings, which Caedus is unaware of seeing as how he has NEVER had any real sith training.
If that were true then how come Caedus knows the sith variant of Battle meditation yet Revan doesn't which he would have used in the JCW especially since Bastilla was using against his forces. Revan hasn't shown himself capable of using the techniques I listed which for the majority(FL) Jacen couldn't do before going on his 5 year journey.
Hardly comparable to Revan's miniature force storm that arcs down and hits multiple enemies.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's a great ability but how are you going to do that to a powerful force user?
Which was learned by Treia, Sion, and Nihilus on Malachor V, which Revan completely plundered.
Is there proof that is the exact same ability done the exact same way. Nomi Sunrider certainly didn't use a sith technique to cut Ulic off so it shows that there are different techniques to do it.
A feat which has been replicated by many.
Not by revan, nor was the feat replicated against Tubrolaser fire which makes it more impressive. (not saying someone as powerfu as Luke couldn't do the same)
Force speed is a common jedi trait.
Revan has never shown to be able to do it let alone being able to keep up with someone like LOTF Luke.
Explain how this will help him against an equally powerful force user.
Nihilus was able to stun(not sure if it is the same technique based on its description) it to the exile, Visas and Mandalore. So it is possible to land it on a fairly powerful opponent. We could be here all day debating if technique A would land on each other as easily as you say that it wont help Caedus against Revan, I can and will do the same for Revan's techniques since his infamous force storm was only used on non force sensitives. But the fact is that this Force Paralysis technique is another ability in his arsenal to use against Revan.
Exactly how is his blood trace going to help him in battle?
Well if Revan tries to escape/hide.....
Revan is more versatile in darkside teachings. Point?
Which we know next to nothing about other then fact that
rituals scared bane.
I love how you run around in circles. You use the fact that Caedus' superiority in esoteric teachings give him a victory,
Before Jacen went on his journey he could not, paralyze someone via the force, he didn't know how to hide himself in the force, he didn't know shatterpoint (not a sith technique) he couldn't produce illusions that fooled Luke Skywalker and he didn't know how to cut someone off from the force(no proof it is the same attack that kreia used).
Here are examples of Caedus using what he learned from his 5 year journey that can prove useful in combat yet we have no clue what techniques that Revan learned that would help him.
I love how you run around in circles. You use the fact that Caedus' superiority in esoteric teachings give him a victory, but when I claim the opposite with Revan and the darkside teachings, which are SUPERIOR to Caedus, you play the unknown card
Because they are UNKNOWN so it is impossible to debate on them hence we go by what we know and based on what we know is that Caedus has more force techniques in his arsenal than Revan.
If, and I mean IF any opponent beats another opponent by default because someone is unknown, then STOP using unknown characters in a versus fight. Absence of proof ISNT proof of absence so being and unknown doesn't translate into victory for the other guy.
I would like for people to stop using kotor characters in vs matches but if they don't then I will make my judgment based on the known abilities which in this case Revan hasn't shown as many force abilities as Caedus which is why I give Caedus the win even in a strict force battle.