Originally posted by Phantom ZoneYour Wolverine hate never ceases to amaze me.
Wolverine maybe be faster but I dont think hes fast enough to dance around Abom all day. Abom is probably good enough to stop Wolverine just going up to him and stabbing him, Wolverine will have to negiotate how hes going to do it.
Originally posted by jinzin
Your Wolverine hate never ceases to amaze me.
All I said was that I dont think Wolverine is going to go up to Abom and just stab him in the eye or cut his arm off. I suspect he would spend some time dodging blows and then getting him with a lethal blow....and you call that hate?
Well I guess if im not saying Wolverine isnt god then yeah thats hate.
Originally posted by jinzinIn the first issue of X-Men part didn't that guy touch him and his healing factor go out for a bit and X-23 blinded him when he was fighting the X-Kids and Beast? I wasn't talking about him fighting without his healing factor against Logan because he wasn't. Even a glancing blow from Abom should send Logan miles away anyway..Won't happen in comics sure but there really isn't anything to stop Logan from being thrown, hit, or kicked miles away at the very least in one attack. Abom also has a much longer reach. The only problem is Logan's speed which is nulled do to Thunderclap knocking him back, or having a small quake being created by stomping the ground. WWHulk may be a lot stronger than Abom..but he didn't use his full strength either, and Abom being in the 200 ton range is more than enough to do everything to Logan that Hulk did. Unlike Hulk he'd have to worry about being fatally wounded so he'd have to take a less headfirst approach but still. Knocking Logan's brain around his skull, and casually backhanding him through trees isn't beyond Abom's power.
😐Hulk's healing factor was working just fine. It wasn't out for a bit which was the whole damned point. 😬
That if it were, or was anything like Abominations limited ability he would have been downed.
Which is absolutely true. With one cut to any one of the Ulna, Radial, or Brachial arteries that run down the arm, Hulk without a healing factor would have bled out in mere seconds experiencing any of all sorts of symptoms like dizziness, lack of oxygen, or even seizures before dying. Given the sheer amount of blood that was falling out of his arm, I think it's safe to assume Wolverine probably hit a couple of those. That's why the comparison to WWH isn't only an innacurate comparison but a stupid one. If that was Abomination he would have been dead. So no, Abom can't "easily replicate" what WWH did to Logan.
WWH is immensly more powerful than Abom.
He's Smarter.
Faster.
And has a healing factor that dwarfs even the likes of Logan.By the time WWH had Koed Logan Abomination would have suffered heavy bleeding from his back, eyes, chest, ribs, and losing arterial blood out his arms...... That's something that Abom won't sustain before he can knock Logan unconcious, there's really nothing to argue there.
Originally posted by Kento
In the first issue of X-Men part didn't that guy touch him and his healing factor go out for a bit and X-23 blinded him when he was fighting the X-Kids and Beast? I wasn't talking about him fighting without his healing factor against Logan because he wasn't. Even a glancing blow from Abom should send Logan miles away anyway..Won't happen in comics sure but there really isn't anything to stop Logan from being thrown, hit, or kicked miles away at the very least in one attack. Abom also has a much longer reach. The only problem is Logan's speed which is nulled do to Thunderclap knocking him back, or having a small quake being created by stomping the ground. WWHulk may be a lot stronger than Abom..but he didn't use his full strength either, and Abom being in the 200 ton range is more than enough to do everything to Logan that Hulk did. Unlike Hulk he'd have to worry about being fatally wounded so he'd have to take a less headfirst approach but still. Knocking Logan's brain around his skull, and casually backhanding him through trees isn't beyond Abom's power.
Okay, but the point still remains - WWH would have died had he possessed the healing factor of Abom. I mean, he hit Wolverine once - Wolverine went flying through some trees. So what does Logan do? He gets up like it was no big deal, costume all torn to bits and attacks Hulk. Wolverine comments on how Hulks skin is harder to cut so he goes for the eyes. Now first of all, Abom's skin is easier to cut than WWH, therefore, Wolverine would have been ripping into Abom and Abom would have been on the ground screeming at this point. Considering that WWH had to grab Logan and then hammer him him six or seven times on the ground just to cause brain damage, there isn't much Abom can do..even if he manages to ignore the pain of having his back ripped open, he must now deal with the fact that his arm is being sliced to ribbons. Oh wait....the only reason Hulk could grab Logan is because Logan went for the eyes and Hulk healed the wound instantly. So without the HF, Hulk is on the ground going..me eyes me eyes..and Logan is standing there possibly being held back for the other X-men as they see Hulk has been beaten. If this was Emil, then he would be screaming his head off from all the damage to his eyes. Seriously, Abom would have just been shredded. So when you factor in that all you need to do is remove WWH healing factor, and you have a Logan win, the choice becomes obvious in a fight with Abom since he basically is Hulk minus the healing factor and speed advantage.
Just imagine this right...Logan, a man who can dodge bullets at point blank range, slice off the barrels of guns so fast that no one can see it happen, and who displays various other amazing feats of speed isn't going to get tagged by Abom at all. He's just going to rip him up? A thunder clap? PLEASE. Abom might cause earthquakes but Hulk has done that in every fight and still Logan has managed to score blows that would kill anything without invisibility like Juggernaut or insane healing like Hulk. Wolverine could easily just slice Aboms arm off when Abom swings at him...the fights over right then and there and Wolverine only has popped one set of claws and gets annoyed because all of Aboms screaming has blown out his cigar.
Originally posted by The Real WolvieWithout his healing factor would have probably fought a lot differently instead of just walking through everybodies attacks just because he could. That once should have been able to send Logan to a different town if not state like he punted that one person yet didn't. In a comic Abom won't be bfring Logan but there isn't anything stopping him from doing it with a single punch.
Okay, but the point still remains - WWH would have died had he possessed the healing factor of Abom. I mean, he hit Wolverine once - Wolverine went flying through some trees. So what does Logan do? He gets up like it was no big deal, costume all torn to bits and attacks Hulk. Wolverine comments on how Hulks skin is harder to cut so he goes for the eyes. Now first of all, Abom's skin is easier to cut than WWH, therefore, Wolverine would have been ripping into Abom and Abom would have been on the ground screeming at this point. Considering that WWH had to grab Logan and then hammer him him six or seven times on the ground just to cause brain damage, there isn't much Abom can do..even if he manages to ignore the pain of having his back ripped open, he must now deal with the fact that his arm is being sliced to ribbons. Oh wait....the only reason Hulk could grab Logan is because Logan went for the eyes and Hulk healed the wound instantly. So without the HF, Hulk is on the ground going..me eyes me eyes..and Logan is standing there possibly being held back for the other X-men as they see Hulk has been beaten. If this was Emil, then he would be screaming his head off from all the damage to his eyes. Seriously, Abom would have just been shredded. So when you factor in that all you need to do is remove WWH healing factor, and you have a Logan win, the choice becomes obvious in a fight with Abom since he basically is Hulk minus the healing factor and speed advantage.Just imagine this right...Logan, a man who can dodge bullets at point blank range, slice off the barrels of guns so fast that no one can see it happen, and who displays various other amazing feats of speed isn't going to get tagged by Abom at all. He's just going to rip him up? A thunder clap? PLEASE. Abom might cause earthquakes but Hulk has done that in every fight and still Logan has managed to score blows that would kill anything without invisibility like Juggernaut or insane healing like Hulk. Wolverine could easily just slice Aboms arm off when Abom swings at him...the fights over right then and there and Wolverine only has popped one set of claws and gets annoyed because all of Aboms screaming has blown out his cigar.
Has Hulk had a speed advantage over Abom??
Just because Logan can heal one aspect of the Thunderclap doesn't mean the other aspect is nulled. Logan will be knocked back by a Thunderclap. And Logan won't be darting around everywhere while being shook up by the earth trembling.
Sure Logan can win the fight..but he can also loose it.
Originally posted by Kento
Without his healing factor would have probably fought a lot differently instead of just walking through everybodies attacks just because he could. That once should have been able to send Logan to a different town if not state like he punted that one person yet didn't. In a comic Abom won't be bfring Logan but there isn't anything stopping him from doing it with a single punch.Has Hulk had a speed advantage over Abom??
Just because Logan can heal one aspect of the Thunderclap doesn't mean the other aspect is nulled. Logan will be knocked back by a Thunderclap. And Logan won't be darting around everywhere while being shook up by the earth trembling.
Sure Logan can win the fight..but he can also loose it.
You are trying to bring realism to the comics where it doesn't belong. Wolverine has danced around Hulk besides the threat of earthquakes and thunderclaps. If WWH didn't have a HF, there would have been NOTHING he could have done to defend himself against Logans strikes. So him changing his fighting style is completely irrelevant. It's not like he could possibly dodge.
So what if Wolvie would have been sent into another town? It's irrelevant because Hulk shoulnd't have tagged him in the first place. The only reason he did was to show off Wolverine's healing. How is Hulk going to hit a guy who dodges bullets? Wolverine's abilities are always brought down in comics which is why he doesn't dodge fighters more often or simply gut them.
I mean face it, if Hulk lacked a HF logan would have killed him in a fight a long time ago - he would have one-shotted grey hulk back in the 80's. You are also aware that Wolverine has the agility to dance around even if there's a mini quake going on right? Considering it's never been a factor in any of his brick fights I don't see why it would be here.
Wolverine COULD lose if Abom manages to tag him...but he would have to do so via BFR as Logan took a shot directly from WWH and just got up..and he had to hammer on Logan like a carpenter hammering a nail just to cause brain damage. So yeah..Abom can only win via BFR because he's just not tagging Logan enough to secure a win via knockout.
That being said, Spidy, Elektra, and Cap all have a better chance against Logan than Abom. I'm not a fanboy I just don't see how this big brick can defend himself against Wolverine's attacks.
Originally posted by KentoThen why bring it up at all since it did nothing to contribute to the conversation..... 😐
In the first issue of X-Men part didn't that guy touch him and his healing factor go out for a bit and X-23 blinded him when he was fighting the X-Kids and Beast? I wasn't talking about him fighting without his healing factor against Logan because he wasn't.
Originally posted by KentoAssuming that Logan doesn't roll with the punch, assuming Abom hit him at an up angle which would be weird considering how much taller Abom is, almost all of his attacks would certainly be directed downwards.
Even a glancing blow from Abom should send Logan miles away anyway..
Originally posted by KentoWell there's a few things... I'll get into them in a moment.
Won't happen in comics sure but there really isn't anything to stop Logan from being thrown, hit, or kicked miles away at the very least in one attack
Originally posted by KentoWhich isn't really an advantage in his case given Logan's speed. All it means is that if and when he misses it's going to be that much harder to recover and counter.
Abom also has a much longer reach.
Originally posted by Kento🤨
The only problem is Logan's speed which is nulled do to Thunderclap knocking him back, or having a small quake being created by stomping the ground. WWHulk may be a lot stronger than Abom..but he didn't use his full strength either, and Abom being in the 200 ton range is more than enough to do everything to Logan that Hulk did. Unlike Hulk he'd have to worry about being fatally wounded so he'd have to take a less headfirst approach but still. Knocking Logan's brain around his skull, and casually backhanding him through trees isn't beyond Abom's power.
Okay, now there's no need to be utterly ridiculous here. First Abom isn't much smarter than Savage Hulk and that's when he's completely fine. Thunderclaps are not only out of character for Abom but out of his brain's ability to even formulate as a strategy 99% of the time.
Second, have you SEEN any of the times the thunderclaps have been used against Logan?
The only one that's ever even effected Logan on the battlefield caused him to go into a Berserker Rage and plunge his claws straight through Hulk. 😕
As for Hulk not using his full strength on Logan.... Are you KIDDING? At which point has Hulk EVER held back against Wolverine in a fight?
When you've got a big angry gargantuan screaming out "Hulk SMASH little man!" it's pretty damned clear that he's not going to be holding back for Wolverine's safety. Even in the WWH fight, Hulk recognized that pounding Logan as usual was going to get him nowhere. Given that he wanted logan out of the way as soon as possible where does it even become plausible that he was holding back there?
Given that this version of Hulk was times stronger than previous versions and he proved it in multiple fights; there's absolutely no proof, nor reason to even begin to theorize that Abom could pull off the same offensive on Wolverine and the fact that he has to worry about being mortally wounded is only the tip of the iceberg as to why.
Now, you want to talk about how there's not much stopping Logan from getting Brain damage here? Well.... WRONG....
Wolverine has EVERY SINGLE CONCEIVABLE ADVANTAGE in this fight with the exception of strength.. and strength is simply not enough...
Experience- Wolverine's lived several lifetimes and been a reincarnating warrior spirit since biblical times. His skills are so that he outfought the angel of death dozens of times without losing once and been in every major war since coming of age. Just walking onto the field Abom has to worry about going up against someone with much more tactical knowledge, muscle memory, and practice on the battlefield. It doesn't help that Wolverine also has fought tons and tons of bricks with a winning record. 😬 How many superhuman midgets has Abom fought that he's had to worry about? Based off experience alone, Wolverine's a difficult opponent to overcome.
Better fighter- Wolverine's such an exponentially better fighter than Abomination that there's no real world comparison I can come up with that even begins to demonstrate the gap in their abilities when it comes to fighting. You're talking about a guy on par with Captain America if not better. Even if Logan was a mere human his vast fighting skill would make for an interesting fight against Abomination.
Sheer speed- Wolverine has multiples upon multiples of speed feats and a number of them are going up against bricks just like Abomination. Attacking Hulk and Wendigo without having one blow landing on him. Knocking Kierrok out before Kierrok could even put up a suitable defense. And those are low end. Wolverine casually dodges machine gun fire, bats away rockets, and disappears infront of human sight. He's fast enough to make Spiderman think he's inferior in the speed department for a moment. Now Abomination has to worry about someone who's not only vastly more vetted and skilled than himself, but far faster by comparison to boot.
Enhanced agility- Wolverine's agility has helped to allow him to engage in close combat with Wendigo without being touched before knocking Wends out. He's fooled Hydra into thinking he's Beast, and dodged lasers in a confined space alongside Spiderman. With his agility not only can he compound on his speed to contort and avoid blows from Abomination but he can move from ground attacks to aerial attacks with smooth transitions and perfect balance. So now, Abom has to worry about a more experienced fighter, with vastly superior skill, who is zipping around faster than he can while employing acrobatics intermixed in defense and offense.
Claws- Wolverine can take an Abom punch to the head. He can take another to the head, and another. and another, and another... and so on and so forth... How many times can Abom afford to be punched by Wolverine in turn? Yeah, he can't. Even non life threatening attacks will draw lots of blood from Wolverine. Abomination has to worry about vitals, he has to worry about veins, arteries, he has to worry about accumulation. Wolverine isn't nearly as handicapped, he can take a number of Abomination's attacks and he's the only one here with a one hit killer weapon.
Healing Factor- It allows Wolverine to attack with total disregard to defense and focus completely on offense if he wants to. It's far faster than Abominations and can actually help Wolverine maintain and tolerate the damage he might take in the fight. Abom's doesn't simple as.
Enhanced Senses- Wolverine hearing and sense of smell allow him to fight skilled opponents while blinded even completely dodging attacks in the dark. His sense of touch can detect wind shifts in the air allowing him to react to things as fast as Cyk's eye beams before they reach him without looking. His sense of sight slows time down, allowing him to actually see bullets as they pass by him. His enhanced senses only compound on his speed advantage and add to the response time of his reflexes better allowing him to avoid being attacked at all.
Abomination has to worry about all this and you think Wolverine needs to be concerned about Abomination landing a glancing blow and sending him flying for miles?
Well let's see.. Hulk's done it several times, each time Wolverine's got up and run back to the fight.
Wrecker tried that, Wolverine ran back to the fight and diced him up.
Thing punched him through a building down a couple city blocks, he got back up, ran back to the fight....
I think you see where this is going....
And punching Logan away from the fight?
Yeah, that's a good strategy. At least the fight starts out where both guys can see each other. One hit that sends Logan flying miles isn't going to knock Logan out, it's going to help ensure Logan uses another one of his abilities that doesn't come into play at the start of the fight...
Stealth- The guy can sneak up on other superhumans with heightened senses, he can sneak up on deer, infiltrate the baxter building, run through the woods full sprint without making a sound, disappear in broad daylight.... It's possibly the worst thing Abomination could do here, it even allows Wolverine to fully recover from the hit. 😬
All Abomination has here is strength and reach.. that's it... no skills, no brains, no other powers. Just strength, reach, and the hope for a lucky punch (not only in hitting Logan at all, but KOing him when loads don't tend to work most of the time as it is). So the question is, do you think Abom is a lucky guy? To me, his face would dictate otherwise. 😐
Originally posted by jinzinBravo
Then why bring it up at all since it did nothing to contribute to the conversation..... 😐Assuming that Logan doesn't roll with the punch, assuming Abom hit him at an up angle which would be weird considering how much taller Abom is, almost all of his attacks would certainly be directed downwards.
Well there's a few things... I'll get into them in a moment.
Which isn't really an advantage in his case given Logan's speed. All it means is that if and when he misses it's going to be that much harder to recover and counter.
🤨
Okay, now there's no need to be utterly ridiculous here. First Abom isn't much smarter than Savage Hulk and that's when he's completely fine. Thunderclaps are not only out of character for Abom but out of his brain's ability to even formulate as a strategy 99% of the time.
Second, have you SEEN any of the times the thunderclaps have been used against Logan?The only one that's ever even effected Logan on the battlefield caused him to go into a Berserker Rage and plunge his claws straight through Hulk. 😕
As for Hulk not using his full strength on Logan.... Are you KIDDING? At which point has Hulk EVER held back against Wolverine in a fight?
When you've got a big angry gargantuan screaming out "Hulk SMASH little man!" it's pretty damned clear that he's not going to be holding back for Wolverine's safety. Even in the WWH fight, Hulk recognized that pounding Logan as usual was going to get him nowhere. Given that he wanted logan out of the way as soon as possible where does it even become plausible that he was holding back there?
Given that this version of Hulk was times stronger than previous versions and he proved it in multiple fights; there's absolutely no proof, nor reason to even begin to theorize that Abom could pull off the same offensive on Wolverine and the fact that he has to worry about being mortally wounded is only the tip of the iceberg as to why.Now, you want to talk about how there's not much stopping Logan from getting Brain damage here? Well.... WRONG....
Wolverine has EVERY SINGLE CONCEIVABLE ADVANTAGE in this fight with the exception of strength.. and strength is simply not enough...
Experience- Wolverine's lived several lifetimes and been a reincarnating warrior spirit since biblical times. His skills are so that he outfought the angel of death dozens of times without losing once and been in every major war since coming of age. Just walking onto the field Abom has to worry about going up against someone with much more tactical knowledge, muscle memory, and practice on the battlefield. It doesn't help that Wolverine also has fought tons and tons of bricks with a winning record. 😬 How many superhuman midgets has Abom fought that he's had to worry about? Based off experience alone, Wolverine's a difficult opponent to overcome.
Better fighter- Wolverine's such an exponentially better fighter than Abomination that there's no real world comparison I can come up with that even begins to demonstrate the gap in their abilities when it comes to fighting. You're talking about a guy on par with Captain America if not better. Even if Logan was a mere human his vast fighting skill would make for an interesting fight against Abomination.
Sheer speed- Wolverine has multiples upon multiples of speed feats and a number of them are going up against bricks just like Abomination. Attacking Hulk and Wendigo without having one blow landing on him. Knocking Kierrok out before Kierrok could even put up a suitable defense. And those are low end. Wolverine casually dodges machine gun fire, bats away rockets, and disappears infront of human sight. He's fast enough to make Spiderman think he's inferior in the speed department for a moment. Now Abomination has to worry about someone who's not only vastly more vetted and skilled than himself, but far faster by comparison to boot.
Enhanced agility- Wolverine's agility has helped to allow him to engage in close combat with Wendigo without being touched before knocking Wends out. He's fooled Hydra into thinking he's Beast, and dodged lasers in a confined space alongside Spiderman. With his agility not only can he compound on his speed to contort and avoid blows from Abomination but he can move from ground attacks to aerial attacks with smooth transitions and perfect balance. So now, Abom has to worry about a more experienced fighter, with vastly superior skill, who is zipping around faster than he can while employing acrobatics intermixed in defense and offense.
Claws- Wolverine can take an Abom punch to the head. He can take another to the head, and another. and another, and another... and so on and so forth... How many times can Abom afford to be punched by Wolverine in turn? Yeah, he can't. Even non life threatening attacks will draw lots of blood from Wolverine. Abomination has to worry about vitals, he has to worry about veins, arteries, he has to worry about accumulation. Wolverine isn't nearly as handicapped, he can take a number of Abomination's attacks and he's the only one here with a one hit killer weapon.
Healing Factor- It allows Wolverine to attack with total disregard to defense and focus completely on offense if he wants to. It's far faster than Abominations and can actually help Wolverine maintain and tolerate the damage he might take in the fight. Abom's doesn't simple as.
Enhanced Senses- Wolverine hearing and sense of smell allow him to fight skilled opponents while blinded even completely dodging attacks in the dark. His sense of touch can detect wind shifts in the air allowing him to react to things as fast as Cyk's eye beams before they reach him without looking. His sense of sight slows time down, allowing him to actually see bullets as they pass by him. His enhanced senses only compound on his speed advantage and add to the response time of his reflexes better allowing him to avoid being attacked at all.
Abomination has to worry about all this and you think Wolverine needs to be concerned about Abomination landing a glancing blow and sending him flying for miles?
Well let's see.. Hulk's done it several times, each time Wolverine's got up and run back to the fight.
Wrecker tried that, Wolverine ran back to the fight and diced him up.
Thing punched him through a building down a couple city blocks, he got back up, ran back to the fight....
I think you see where this is going....
And punching Logan away from the fight?Yeah, that's a good strategy. At least the fight starts out where both guys can see each other. One hit that sends Logan flying miles isn't going to knock Logan out, it's going to help ensure Logan uses another one of his abilities that doesn't come into play at the start of the fight...
Stealth- The guy can sneak up on other superhumans with heightened senses, he can sneak up on deer, infiltrate the baxter building, run through the woods full sprint without making a sound, disappear in broad daylight.... It's possibly the worst thing Abomination could do here, it even allows Wolverine to fully recover from the hit. 😬All Abomination has here is strength and reach.. that's it... no skills, no brains, no other powers. Just strength, reach, and the hope for a lucky punch (not only in hitting Logan at all, but KOing him when loads don't tend to work most of the time as it is). So the question is, do you think Abom is a lucky guy? To me, his face would dictate otherwise. 😐
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Everyone seems to be forgetting that this scenario is PIS/CIS-free.Abomination wins every. single. time.
Sure, he may not have the same healing factor as Wolvie or Hulk, but the guy's known to be much stronger than Hulk.
One good haymaker will send Wolvie's body parts flying in the air.
Nobodies forgetting anything.
Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Everyone seems to be forgetting that this scenario is PIS/CIS-free.Abomination wins every. single. time.
Sure, he may not have the same healing factor as Wolvie or Hulk, but the guy's known to be much stronger than Hulk.
One good haymaker will send Wolvie's body parts flying in the air.
What part of Wolverine stomping on Emil has anything to do with PIS? And CIS IN NOT EXEMPT FROM FIGHTS.
Emil is known to be stronger than a calm Hulk at the beginning of the fight, but often gets overpowered rather quickly especially in the last decade.
I'm sorry I wasn't aware that strength nullifies everyother advantage on the battlefield.
I guess Abomination beats the Flash.
Proffesor X.
I beat he would beat Captain America in 3 seconds flat......
🙄