John McClane VS Martin Riggs

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So in your opinion, McClaine floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee? He is elusive while fighting H2H? Funny, it looks more like he gets his ass kicked left and right then pulls a four leaf clover outta his ass.

Answer this, right here, right now. Who is the better skilled at H2H combat? Forget the luck factor, who of the two are bettter at the actual fighting?

McClane based on his proven/onscreen effieciency output of death.
I just think that despite Riggs faster whippier stuff, McClanes brutality would mess his ass up. I do see Riggs edging him out 3-4 times out of ten possibly though. But on the whole I have the imagine in my head of Riggs having been caught out delivering some slap choppy shit gets caught by a McClane hook and is then immediately kerbstomped repeatly and angrily until Riggs head is Raspberry milkshake.

No, I didn't mean McClane. The other dude you and Robtard were discussing. 🙂

Although in any fight making the other guy miss by way of movement plays in.

Especially in McClane's gun battles, for example.
Riggs does it too.
You know..... Like him rolling on the floor while shooting in LW1.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane based on his proven/onscreen effieciency output of death.
I just think that despite Riggs faster whippier stuff, McClanes brutality would mess his ass up. I do see Riggs edging him out 3-4 times out of ten possibly though.

No, I didn't mean McClane. The other dude you and Robtard were discussing. 🙂

Although in any fight making the other guy miss by way of movement plays in.

Especially in McClane's gun battles, for example.

Thats what this thread is about, who the better fighter is, not who is the luckiest, not who would win in a demolition derby, not who kills a guy better by falling down a flight of stairs with him, and certainly not about who wins with glass imbedded in their feet.

Riggs fighting prowess, I am talking about him entering a room unarmed and taking out several bad guys in seconds, far surpasses McClaines. Any fool can see this. It's like comparing Lui Kang to Daniel San.

WTF...? 😂 I didnt say it was...!!! You asked a question.

I answered it. Read the first bit again.

Yes any fool CAN see that, as you rightly say. But im not a fool.
Thats the problem there.

We gotta in a situation where you remove the movie logic/luck,
consider what'd work for real.
I dont care about his Tai-chi. You try that shit in on a MMA tournament for real or Cage fighting... You'll probably be killed without the neccessary film choreography....definitely killed against those five guys in a simultaneous pile-in-there-and-pound-him situation.
Boxing/JuJitsu guys win over that kind of stuff all the time.
And Boxing shots and grappling and a few kicks/knees/elbows are McClanes thing.
Not to mention that McClanes aggression and powerful shots were honed with some pretty effective police training too.

Riggs may be trained in that technically pretty/pretensious stuff well, but as for what works in actual combat, I'd have to favour the ferocity and power/aggression of McClane for the most part.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
WTF...? I didnt say it was you asked question.

I answered it. Read the first bit again.

I dont care about his Tai-chi. You try that shit in on a MMA tournament for real or Cage fighting... You'll probably be killed without the neccessary film choreography.
Boxing/JuJitsu guys win over that kind of stuff all the time.
And Boxing shots and grappling and a few kicks are McClanes thing.
Not to mention that McClanes aggression and powerful shots were honed with some pretty effective police training too.

Riggs may be trained in that technically pretty/pretensious stuff well, but as for what works in actual combat, I'd have to favour the ferocity and power/aggression of McClane for the most part.

Think on it like this. Lets say I asked you who the better knife fighter is, Riddick or Rambo. We both know it's Riddick. We can't say "Well Rambo killed more people onscreen, so he is the better knife fighter." See? You are using McClaines tendency to get lucky and use cars to destroy helicopters as a crutch here.

And Riggs doesn't use Tai Chi, at least not to my knowledge. I think Murtaugh mentioned it when they first met, but I think he was just talking outta his ass. He meant martial arts in general.

Lets talk rage. If both fighters are fully enraged, who has the edge? If we are gonna consider the luck factor, we gotta consider the rage factor.

I was just saying that someone who has had more fights and won (McClane) against heavy shit opponents, wins over someone with less fights survived/won on their record.

Thats why youve heard of Ali, Marciano and Louis, where as youve not heard of Joe Bloggs from Chicago who has 2 fights on his record.
Now dont get me wrong: I love the underdog (part, often, of the McClane appeal.)
But if either of those champions fought the 2 fights guy, I know which guy our money would feel safer on.

I see what you saying, but I would have to say that while Riddick was flashier Rambo would have done it less flashily, but would kill the planet. So yes. I'd vote Rambo for pure reliability then.

Well I was paraphrasing Murtaugh's "I hear your trained in all that tai-chi shit...I guess we're gonna have to register you as a lethal weapon." line in LW in the garage.

(Truth is its easier to say that than go through all the various styles of attack employed as it would be also for McClanes diverse range of killing methods. 🙂 )

Rage whilst short and powerful, drains your stamina and makes you more inflexible/uptight in combat the one who keeps calmest in RL would be the favorite.
If Riggs is vulnerable to McClanes' habits of winding up opponents, often making them make fatal mistakes, Riggs might get frustrated and of his game.
Having said I admit that its not like McClane is perfect in that regard either... We have all seen his rages.
Riggs could get his goat too maybe somehow by some miracle...? But McClane will likely have killed him by then anyway. 😛

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
I was just saying that someone who has had more fights and won (McClane) against heavy shit opponents, wins over someone with less fights survived/won on their record.

I see what you saying, but I would have to say that while Riddick was flashier Rambo would have done it less flashily, but would kill the planet. So yes. I'd vote Rambo for pure reliability then.

See, you are judging McClaine and Riggs by their body count, and, while I am tempted to do the same, I cant, because it holds no bearing here.

Lets say I am to fight Kimbo Slice H2H. As far as we know, Kimbo has never killed another man. Lets say that once, years ago, I killed three would be robbers with a machete. You gonna bet on me H2H against Kimbo?

Riddick killed far more beings with a knife than Rambo did, and he did it FAR more efficiently than Rambo did.

Well I was paraphrasing Murtaugh's "I hear your trained in all that tai-chi shit...I guess we're gonna have to register you as a lethal weapon. (Truth is its easier to say that than go through all the various styles of attack employed as it would be also for McClanes diverse range of killing methods. 🙂 )

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You are forgetting that Riggs was an assassin during the Vietnam war.

Even though this isn't shown on screen?

Okay, so he knows how to kill secretly/quietly, when his opponents don't know it's coming. How does that help him in this straight up fight?

Face it, even if Riggs was a fighter pilot and had an F-35 at his dispoable, McClane would win, as he has.

Death by Broken neck.
Death by truck.
Death by C4.
Death by Shipping tow cable.
Death by knives.
Death by zippo lighter. (Huge destruction: all bad guys killed)
Death by phone cable. (Helicopter destroyed: head bad guys dead)
Death by Package conveyor.
Death by Elevator Shaft and Truck-up-ass.
Death by car in helicopter.
To name a few of McClanes various results attained by inventiveness under pressure.
Repeated useage of Knees, Elbows, Straights, Crosses, Hooks, Upper cuts, Foreman smashes, Headbutts, Teeth, Strangles, Pistol whippings and throws, all helping the death toll rise.

Now name Riggs'.

Correction: "truck-up-the-ass" was in conjunction with 'sent flying down an elevator shaft and blown to bits'. That is one serious combo and proves just how ****ing deadly McClane is, he doesn't just kill you if you piss him off, he obliterates you.

You also forgot the varies guns and machine guns he used throughout the movies to kill.

Edit: Didn't he also have a few stabbings?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Thats insane. We see Riddick cut through Necromongers like they are children, not to mention the aliens he killed with a prison shank in Pitch Black. All Rambo did was stab David Caruso in the leg, and maybe throw it a few times in Rambo 3. Oh wait, he pwned the Russian guy while hiding in the mud wall.

See, you are judging McClaine and Riggs by their body count, and, while I am tempted to do the same, I cant, because it holds no bearing here.

Lets say I am to fight Kimbo Slice H2H. As far as we know, Kimbo has never killed another man. Lets say that once, years ago, I killed three would be robbers with a machete. You gonna bet on me H2H against Kimbo?

Riddick killed far more beings with a knife than Rambo did, and he did it FAR more efficiently than Rambo did.

Thats scifantasy bollocks, whereas Rambos techniques are used world over in wars and they work. We are talking real fight.

Well I say it does have meaning here, so nayyyyyah. 😛
Are you using a machete in a hand to hand fight with Kimbo, then...?

Originally posted by Robtard
Even though this isn't shown on screen?

Okay, so he knows how to kill secretly/quietly, when his opponents don't know it's coming. How does that help him in this straight up fight?

Face it, even if Riggs was a fighter pilot and had an F-35 at his dispoable, McClane would win, as he has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Riggs

And who is to say stealth is not an issue here? Who is to say they dont end up stalking each other?

Explain how McClaine would beat a fighter jet, he has never done this before.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correction: "truck-up-the-ass" was in conjunction with 'sent flying down an elevator shaft and blown to bits'. That is one serious combo and proves just how ****ing deadly McClane is, he doesn't just kill you if you piss him off, he obliterates you.

You also forgot the varies guns and machine guns he used throughout the movies to kill.

Edit: Didn't he also have a few stabbings?

100% agreed. Ammended.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He killed a guy from a thousand yards out when he was 19. Also :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Riggs

And who is to say stealth is not an issue here? Who is to say they dont end up stalking each other?

Explain how McClaine would beat a fighter jet, he has never done this before.

We know nothing about the conditions, and it wasnt onscreen.

You need to see DH4.0 again, my friend.

He messes up its vertical lift engines.
A truck is also involved.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Thats scifantasy bollocks, whereas Rambos techniques are used world over in wars and they work. We are talking real fight.

Well I say it does have meaning here, so nayyyyyah. 😛
Are you using a machete in a hand to hand fight with Kimbo, then...?

Nope, it's me versus Kimbo H2H, no machete. BUT I have more people KIA to my credit.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
He killed a guy from a thousand yards out when he was 19. Also :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Riggs

And who is to say stealth is not an issue here? Who is to say they dont end up stalking each other?

Explain how McClaine would beat a fighter jet, he has never done this before.

I didn't bother clicking the link, as we go on movie feats here, right?

Who's to say they don't stalk each other? See how that nonsense works. Besides, the thread starter said H2H and gun fight.

Watch Diehard 4, he does, because he's that much of a bad-ass. Riggs loses. /the end

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A knife fight is a knife fight. If anything, Riddick would be even more deadly aganst a human, as necromongers and the flying alien thingies were faster, stronger, superior in every way to a regular human.

Nope, it's me versus Kimbo H2H, no machete. BUT I have more people KIA to my credit.

No aliens involved. Keep it real.
Onscreen kill records reflect success.

Then Kimbo kills you and anally probes you with a car exhaust for his friend's amusement on youtube. He might even dook in your mouth. Now if you killings were H2H against fellas like kimbo all the time and Kimbo had less victorys, then you maybe.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Death by Broken neck.
Death by truck.
Death by C4.
Death by Shipping tow cable.
Death by knives.
Death by zippo lighter. (Huge destruction: all bad guys killed)
Death by phone cable. (Helicopter destroyed: head bad guys dead)
Death by Package conveyor.
Death by Elevator Shaft and Truck-up-ass.
Death by car in helicopter.
To name a few of McClanes various results attained by inventiveness under pressure.
Repeated useage of Knees, Elbows, Straights, Crosses, Hooks, Upper cuts, Foreman smashes, Headbutts, Teeth, Strangles, Pistol whippings and throws, all helping the death toll rise.

Now name Riggs'.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
We know nothing about the conditions, and it wasnt onscreen.

You need to see DH4.0 again, my friend.

He messes up its vertical lift engines.
A truck is also involved.

The truck is sliding down the collapsed freeway. The Jet is beneath McClaine. McClaine is hanging on for dear life as the contents of the truck trailer empty and a piece of debris hits the jet's engines.

McClaine was only holding on for dear life the entire time.

Try again.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No aliens involved. Keep it real.
Onscreen kill records reflect success.

Then Kimbo kills you and anally probes you with a car exhaust for his friend's amusement on youtube. He might even dook in your mouth. Now if you killings were H2H against fellas like kimbo all the time and Kimbo had less victorys, then you maybe.

Mhm...So even though I have killed more than Kimbo, he wins?

How many men, on a guess, has McClaine killed onscreen? Shown, also documented?