Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, of course you'd want to get the "truly guilty" but how to find out.
I'm referring...
wait, see below.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Which is stupid. The innocent don't show remorse because they've been wrongly convicted. The guilty will show it to escape execution.Did I mention that was a stupid basis for executing people?
I'm not sure if you guys remember what I'm talking about. I'm talking about my thoughts on the death penalty that I posted in the death penalty thread.
I'm referring to those who specifically admitted or there is undeniable evidence (video coupled with DNA or other combos of evidence that make it literally impossible to deny wrong doing) to the killings but don't show remorse or don't rehab. (You can say you're sorry but if you keep getting into fights or shanking people.....their empty words.)
In that thread, which was a response to Robtard, I said that those who could not be convicted based on 100% surety shouldn't be executed. (If there's room for doubt and they profess innocence, it's not really fair to risk executing an innocent.)
There are probably hundreds or more of people who fit the criteria that I've outlined.
Cut out the other's with the death sentence, stream line the process for what I've outlined, and you saved tax payer money will strengthening the "morality" of the death penalty.
On another note, didn't the Governer of Lousiana get some law passed to gets child rapists the death penalty or something like that?
Originally posted by Bardock42Sure, there might be a stupid person who dabbles in muslim beliefs to be "open minded" or something like that, but true muslims want you and me dead, my freind. Its not about "hating them" or "being intolerant of their culture" or "generalizing them" they really do want you dead and always have. Its a "convert or die" religion.
You can't generalize all Muslims.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11And you decide what true muslims are?
Sure, there might be a stupid person who dabbles in muslim beliefs to be "open minded" or something like that, but true muslims want you and me dead, my freind. Its not about "hating them" or "being intolerant of their culture" or "generalizing them" they really do want you dead and always have. Its a "convert or die" religion.
You decided that the "World Islamic Front" was the Ultimate Authority on Islamic Beliefs across the world?
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Sure, there might be a stupid person who dabbles in muslim beliefs to be "open minded" or something like that, but true muslims want you and me dead, my freind. Its not about "hating them" or "being intolerant of their culture" or "generalizing them" they really do want you dead and always have. Its a "convert or die" religion.
dude you are so wrong on that comment i was accused earlier of being racist toward middle eastern ppl.. and i gotta tell you i am offended by that comment and i am not even muslim... i have also worked with them all they want is to protect their family and have a good life... the ones i met were very polite and i even went to the gym and had chow with them while i was posted in iraq...
just to let everyone know is that the government out sources many jobs to the ppl out there... hindi, muslim nigerians philipinos and iraqis.. and many others you cant generalize everyone like that.. well you can but the individual person is far to complicated to generalize or even believe that they all want the same thing
first of all, know your material before throwing accusations.
Within Islamic jurisprudence, jihad is usually taken to mean military exertion against non-Muslim combatants in the defense or expansion of the Islamic state, the ultimate purpose of which is to universalize Islam. Jihad, the only form of warfare permissible in Islamic law, may be declared against apostates, rebels, highway robbers, violent groups, unIslamic leaders or states which refuse to submit to the authority of Islam.[64][65] Most Muslims today interpret Jihad as only a defensive form of warfare: the external Jihad includes a struggle to make the Islamic societies conform to the Islamic norms of justice.[66]
Fiqh, or islamic jurisprudence:
Fiqh (Arabic: فقه, IPA: [fɪqəh]) is Islamic jurisprudence. Fiqh is an expansion of the Sharia Islamic law—based directly on the Quran and Sunnah—that complements Shariah with evolving rulings/interpretations of Islamic jurists.
The Qur’an[1] (Arabic: القرآن‎ al-qur’ān, literally "the recitation"; also sometimes transliterated as Quran, Qur’ān, Koran, Alcoran or Al-Qur’ān) is the central religious text of Islam.
It says in the Koran to kill non believers to spread/expand islam.
Most Muslims today interpret Jihad as only a defensive form of warfare: the external Jihad includes a struggle to make the Islamic societies conform to the Islamic norms of justice.[66]
And thus, your entire argument collapses. Besides you, a right wing christian, are certaintly one to talk. Salem Witch Trials, native american genocide. Hello?
The Qur'an:Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the overall context of this particular passage is defensive war, however, there are two worrisome pieces to these verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.
Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Sura (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of killing Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'😉.
Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
Sura (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).
Sura (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Pursuing an injured enemy is not an act of self-defense.
Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Sura (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"
Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."
Sura (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
Sura (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Sura (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."
Sura (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.
Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Sura (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Sura (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.
Sura (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew."
Sura (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."
Sura (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
Sura (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
those who do not go forth and kill non-muslims are called Hypocrites, kind of like christians who don't go out and try to help people are called "luke-warm". the ones you talk about are obviously not real muslims and do not follow the qur'an.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11It says in the Bible to kill gays, not have sex with menstruating women, kill your children if they disobey you, give away all your riches, pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands if you think dirty thoughts or do "wrongful" things, do not go to the churches, etc.
first of all, know your material before throwing accusations.Fiqh, or islamic jurisprudence:
It says in the Koran to kill non believers to spread/expand islam.
You don't get to decide who "real" muslims are, just as you don't get to decide what real Jews or real Christians are, Christians, Jews and Muslims that take their respective books at face value are ****ing idiots and religious fanatics...not "real" Christians, Muslims or Jews.
Interpretation is key in all three those religions...and many modern Muslims are no more uncivilized or aggressive than modern Christians, Jews, Buddshists or Atheists
dude you are so wrong and missed the most important part of the quran about war and a jihad....
mohammed also said that when your enemy is defeated and driven from your land to show compassion and let them leave or som such i will try to track the specific qoute for you... it may take a while or few days so bare with me..
EDIT:
Those who are merciful have mercy shown them by the Compassionate One, if you show mercy to those who are in the earth, He Who is in heaven will show mercy to you.
Prophet Muhammad -
Originally posted by Bardock42first, as one who as also extensively studied the bible, you have little knowledge of what you speak. the old testament, which represents the law has all of those things in it, (except the amputation one) and is how the ones who would hope to ascend must conduct themselves in order to attone for their sin. The new testament represents forgiveness, and teaches peace and goodwill to everyone instead of brutal punishment for the sinful.
It says in the Bible to kill gays, not have sex with menstruating women, kill your children if they disobey you, give away all your riches, pluck out your eyes and cut off your hands if you think dirty thoughts or do "wrongful" things, do not go to the churches, etc.
I believe in all aspects of the bible. I agree that those who take it for what people say it is are idiotic. One must embrace all aspects of the bible and attempt to follow all commandments to be a true christian.
You don't get to decide who "real" muslims are, just as you don't get to decide what real Jews or real Christians are, Christians, Jews and Muslims that take their respective books at face value are ****ing idiots and religious fanatics...not "real" Christians, Muslims or Jews.
indeed, but according to their religion (there is no message of mercy or redemption) they go to hell for passiveness during a jihad and are hypocrites.
Interpretation is key in all three those religions...and many modern Muslims are no more uncivilized or aggressive than modern Christians, Jews, Buddshists or Atheists