The Clone Wars (Fake or Real)

Ok here is what iv been thinking about.

Were the Clone Wars FAKE? was Palpatine's Sway over the war so great that he rigged the CIS Side to fail.

or was it all just that the Clones were Better and had Better Commanders then the Sep's Battledroids and Commanders?

This is just something i'v just been thinking about so any input would be nice.

THANKS FOR READING!

He orchestrated the war from the get-go and deliberately planned on the Clones winning. If they didn't, how was he gonna execute Order 66 with a bunch of dead Clones?

Indeed, the Republic was always going to win, if everything went according to Palpatine's plan, which it did.

Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
Ok here is what iv been thinking about.

Were the Clone Wars FAKE? was Palpatine's Sway over the war so great that he rigged the CIS Side to fail.

or was it all just that the Clones were Better and had Better Commanders then the Sep's Battledroids and Commanders?

This is just something i'v just been thinking about so any input would be nice.

THANKS FOR READING!

The clone wars was engineered to destroy the Jedi. What the war did was thin out the Jedi ranks. Order 66 was just a fail safe IMO for if/when the Jedi found out his secret.

So the heroics of the war heroes was very much real, Palpy's plans could have come undone at different points, in Episode 1 on Naboo, in Labyrinth of Evil Mace Windu came close to discovering Palpy's secret Sith lair on Coruscant which would have exposed him too soon and of course in Episode 3 if Anakin had been wiser to his manipulations or if Yoda hadn't been unfortunate to fall off the pod.

The CIS did their job but if not for Anakin would have continued to be a problem for Palpy if Anakin hadn't become his apprentice at a convenient time for him (the Jedi were about to arrest him).

Basically the CIS were the primary Jedi killers. He knew they were powerful enough to maintain their war machine for years. Failing that he installed order 66 to effectively disable the Jedi if the CIS hadn't completed the job at an appopriate time.

He also liked the CIS because they could be disbanded very easily as most of their martial power was controlled by a few organic sapients.

Originally posted by Allankles
The clone wars was engineered to destroy the Jedi. What the war did was thin out the Jedi ranks. Order 66 was just a fail safe IMO for if/when the Jedi found out his secret.

So the heroics of the war heroes was very much real, Palpy's plans could have come undone at different points, in Episode 1 on Naboo, in Labyrinth of Evil Mace Windu came close to discovering Palpy's secret Sith lair on Coruscant which would have exposed him too soon and of course in Episode 3 if Anakin had been wiser to his manipulations or if Yoda hadn't been unfortunate to fall off the pod.

The CIS did their job but if not for Anakin would have continued to be a problem for Palpy if Anakin hadn't become his apprentice at a convenient time for him (the Jedi were about to arrest him).

Basically the CIS were the primary Jedi killers. He knew they were powerful enough to maintain their war machine for years. Failing that he installed order 66 to effectively disable the Jedi if the CIS hadn't completed the job at an appopriate time.

He also liked the CIS because they could be disbanded very easily as most of their martial power was controlled by a few organic sapients.

Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
Ok here is what iv been thinking about.

Were the Clone Wars FAKE? was Palpatine's Sway over the war so great that he rigged the CIS Side to fail.

Yes it is fake, remember it is EU....oh wait...sorry guys I forgot I stumbled in here.

The Nightmare Never Ends.

Hahaha.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
In essence I think you're right, but I don't think Palpatine ever planned on the CIS winning. They were a brilliant creation to stir the galactic populace into a pro-Palpatine attitude, making the transition into a Sith-ruled empire all the easier and of course, to kill as many Jedi as possible. They were also a great excuse to create a military unheard of, the purpose of which to help Palpatine solidify power.

Yes I know all about the other benefits it was a win win for Palpatine on many fronts, but primarily he effectively dealt with the Jedi who were (in reality) his primary hindrance. Yes he intended the CIS to lose but if not for the Jedi heroics and tactics during that war the CIS would have found more success and they would have made things a lot more complicated for Sidious.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Also, wasn't the fight between Anakin and Dooku on the Invisible Hand meant to decide for Palpatine which would become/stay his apprentice?

It was, but Anakin didn't know that and the decision to be Sidious' apprentice was ultimately his alone to make. If he had sided with his conscience Palpy would have had big problems in the shape of Mace Windu's lightsaber.

Originally posted by sweersa
Yes it is fake, remember it is EU....oh wait...sorry guys I forgot I stumbled in here.

The Nightmare Never Ends.

Hahaha.

reported.

The War was real. The clones were just a tool to get rid of the Jedi, moreso than to get rid of the Seperatists.

Then again, the Jedi sold themselves to the devil, so you can't really have much sympathy for them.

CLONES RULE.

If one takes a comprehensive look at canon, one can easily discern that Palpatine never intended for the Confederacy to "win" the war; the entire conflict was a sham, a joke, "the perfect Jedi trap" according to Matthew Stover's novelization -- "by fighting at all, the Jedi lost." From day one, what set Palpatine apart from warlords like Revan and Naga Sadow and Kaan was that Palpatine rightly understood the power and usefulness of legitimacy. The Confederacy wasn't a legitimate government, it was (again in the words of Stover) "an outlaw nation" created only to disperse the Jedi and weaken the Republic's resolve, to ready the galaxy for Palpatine's rule.

As far as the duel between Dooku and Anakin is concerned, yes, Palpatine was going to test Anakin's ability and willingness to join the dark side. If he failed, he would have ordered Dooku to kill Anakin and they would have likely continued with their plan for Dooku to surrender to the Jedi, pin the brunt of the Confederacy's atrocities on Grievous, and execute Order 66 anyways.

Except by the fact that Dooku would have failed miserably in his attempt to kill Anakin, and maybe Palpatine would've been forced to kill Anakin himself.

Sorry Gideon, that sounds like BS. Palpatine isn't dumb.

Using CANON as my basis:

Palpatine told anakin he was "the most gifted Jedi he had ever met." I'm guessing he know Anakin would dispose of Dooku for him...especially with Obi-Wan there.

I'm guessing he just wanted to push Anakin to the darkside be reopening his wounds with Dooku, just like he did by pushign the sandpeople incident, his mother, his realtionship with the Jedi, and his relationship with Padme. Everyhting he did was to trap Anakin and destabilize him. Pitting him against Dooku was likely no different.

What are you talking about? Dooku did fail to kill Anakin; that'd be when he lost his head.

Yes, I know, but Gideon put a different 'If' scenario.

Ordo, Palpatine didn't know if he would be able to turn Anakin. He strongly believed so, yes, because he knew (considering Anakin's character and personality) his chances were extremely high. He did everything he could to turn him, and it worked. But it wasn't definite. Although, It probably was about 95% possible he would turn, there were still chances against it. Unless, he could see it coming, somehow.

In a different scenario, if Palpatine had not been able to turn Anakin to the dark side, his original plan would've still followed its original course.

Exactly.

Sideous would never pu tall of his eggs in one basket. Not even two baskets. Minus Yoda and arguably Mace, no one in the Jedi Order was strong enough to take down Dooku, and the Clones still under Sideous' control. Dooku could have easily done everything Anakin did with an army of clones at his backing.

Slightly edited.

GL actually said otherwise; that if Anakin failed to kill Dooku, Palpatine would let him go and wait until he was stronger. I'll try to find the quote.

But at no point was Palpatine ever willing to give up Anakin, who was a quarter Dooku's age and had probably had near triple the Force-potential.

Of course he wasn't ever willing to give him up, but that doesn't mean he would have undoubtedly and unquestionably succeeded in turning him. But, as I said before, his chances were ****ing phenomenal.

And, we weren't talking about an 'Anakin failing to kill Dooku' scenario.. At least I wasn't.

Palpatine tells Dooku at the end of LoE that Skywalker "may never be ready," and flat out tells Vader himself in RoDV that if Count Dooku had been stronger in the dark side, Vader would be dead and the Count would be at his right hand.

CANON makes it very clear: Palpatine is willing to kill or let go of those whom he deems either too weak or unwilling to serve him. You do all remember a little movie called RotJ right?

I seem to recall the protagonist -- Palpatine's much sought after prize -- found himself on his ass being electrocuted to death after telling the Emperor "no."

If Anakin failed to defeat Dooku or was unwilling to convert, Palpatine would have likely disposed of him. In fact, nothing suggests that he wouldn't have, potential be damned.

We can thank Advent and my absurdly awesome search skills for this:

"Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.

That's fairly conclusive. GL > C-Canon.

or was unwilling to convert, Palpatine would have likely disposed of him.