Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
I mean, the whole hit a brick wall thing.As he would be able to phase through it.
You guys have missed the point. Zoom warned Inertia (who had Zoom's powers) not to run in the dark or he could die by running into a wall or hard structure i.e. he wouldn't be able to see objects on his path and by extension he wouldn't be able to vibrate through them.
This is the primary weakness of these speedsters they don't have super senses so if they don't see or anticipate an attack you can take them out.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Are you shitting me?
Nope, since when do I do that? Unless that was some kind of rhetorical emo question....
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Zoom's taken Flash's strongest punch, a punch from Earth 2 Superman and a punch from Powergirl. There is no way that Superman only needs 1 punch to take him out.
Flash is no Superman in the strength department. For all their simulated strength feats when using the speedforce, they can still be easily taken out my normal things.
And we never saw Zoom again after the hits, so we can't say that he took anything...especially with back to back hits...
Originally posted by Avlon
Flash is no Superman in the strength department. For all their simulated strength feats when using the speedforce, they can still be easily taken out my normal things.And we never saw Zoom again after the hits, so we can't say that he took anything...especially with back to back hits...
When flash charges at full speed, he's not far from Superman striking power. Hell, if he goes IMP I'll bet you he hits even harder than Superman. And Zoom took a punch from Power Girl with no problems at all.
If you claim that Superman would be able to one-shot him, you might as well claim that Superman could one-shot the entire Herald Tier.
This might come as a shock, but he can't 😎
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
When flash charges at full speed, he's not far from Superman striking power. Hell, if he goes IMP I'll bet you he hits even harder than Superman. And Zoom took a punch from Power Girl with no problems at all.
Doubtful since Supes has KO'd Flash and WW with one shot..yet Flash hasn't Ko'd either one of them. He beats them in races for sure...but in battle? Nope.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If you claim that Superman would be able to one-shot him, you might as well claim that Superman could one-shot the entire Herald Tier.
You've seen and I'm sure read enough Superman arc to know that when it's needed...Superman's fists >>>all.
With that said... if we are going by potential Zoom (since some are using Flash feats and senses as a backup) then why shouldn't Superman?
I don't see Flash or Zoom EVER knocking out Darkseid in any form..or doing half of the stuff Supes has done in battle regardless of whatever speed they run at...
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
This might come as a shock, but he can't 😎
That would depend on the book, wouldn't it? *Shock*
Nobody really wants to get into a feat war with the man of steel.
Originally posted by Avlon
Doubtful since Supes has KO'd Flash and WW with one shot..yet Flash hasn't Ko'd either one of them. He beats them in races for sure...but in battle? Nope
But this is Zoom, not Wonder Woman or The Flash. And Wonder Woman even stated that Zoom's punches hurt more. If Superman's one-shotted her, she would know.
Originally posted by Avlon
You've seen and I'm sure read enough Superman arc to know that when it's needed...Superman's fists >>>all.
I have, but fortunately "Plot Induced Stupidity" is not on in KMC. Otherwise characters like Thor would be capable of -any- feat, using magic. The only thing even more imbalanced than Superman's fists.
Originally posted by Avlon
With that said... if we are going by potential Zoom (since some are using Flash feats and senses as a backup) then why shouldn't Superman?I don't see Flash or Zoom EVER knocking out Darkseid in any form..or doing half of the stuff Supes has done in battle regardless of whatever speed they run at...
Zoom IS faster than the Flash and he was so fast that Wally/Jay couldn't see him coming. Those aren't theories or potential feats, but actual events.
And believe it or not, I DO see Zoom easily out-racing Darkseid's Omega Beams. I mean, it's not that hard to make them hit him and then land a couple of punches. If Zoom hits harder than Superman, it should be easy enough to hurt Darkseid.
Originally posted by Avlon
That would depend on the book, wouldn't it? *Shock*
Nobody really wants to get into a feat war with the man of steel.
Superman isn't immune to PIS. If we're going to disregard ridiculously high feats for say, Spider-man, then we can't just randomly accept Superman's monstrously high feats.
Nor do I see what feats would allow Superman to match Zoom, when he has unlimited speed and time travel stuff.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
But this is Zoom, not Wonder Woman or The Flash. And Wonder Woman even stated that Zoom's punches hurt more. If Superman's one-shotted her, she would know.
Exactly, Supes has one shotted her and Zoom hasn't. That tells the story right there. WW has also stated that Supes is the most powerful being on the planet.and that he's superior to everyone in almost every way.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I have, but fortunately "Plot Induced Stupidity" is not on in KMC. Otherwise characters like Thor would be capable of -any- feat, using magic. The only thing even more imbalanced than Superman's fists.
Not necessarily...since Supes does this stuff on a consistent basis. It's not like it's only happened once or twice which we can see in his HUGE respect thread.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Zoom IS faster than the Flash and he was so fast that Wally/Jay couldn't see him coming. Those aren't theories or potential feats, but actual events.
Never said they weren't. They also don't have Superman's perceptions. Zoom still hasn't KO'd Superman and at most has been an annoyance.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
And believe it or not, I DO see Zoom easily out-racing Darkseid's Omega Beams. I mean, it's not that hard to make them hit him and then land a couple of punches. If Zoom hits harder than Superman, it should be easy enough to hurt Darkseid.
I didn't say HURT, I said KO. We both know it will never happen. They can land their punches..but will eventually be pwned.
We've seen Supes ko speedsters, not the other way around.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Superman isn't immune to PIS. If we're going to disregard ridiculously high feats for say, Spider-man, then we can't just randomly accept Superman's monstrously high feats.
We also can't disregard them and use PIS feats for the character we support. Added to that *again* Superman performs on this level consistently enough.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Nor do I see what feats would allow Superman to match Zoom, when he has unlimited speed and time travel stuff.
This is potential vs on panel. Supes trumps Zoom unless they are racing. Even then in a race we had Bizarro pretty much dead even with Zoom with Zoom being slightly faster.
You're basing your entire argument off of the fact that Superman is DC's golden boy. You also refuse to acknowledge the difference in speed between Superman and Zoom. Zoom isn't slightly faster, Clark wouldn't even see him.
And they DON'T have Superman's perception? You got that straight, where as Superman might be able see further, Zoom perceives things über slow.
Originally posted by Avlon
Not necessarily...since Supes does this stuff on a consistent basis. It's not like it's only happened once or twice which we can see in his HUGE respect thread.
There's also the matter of Superman having thousands of comics dedicated solely to him, and Zoom being a villain in a Flash comic. Trying to use the size of someone's respect thread is an incredibly weak argument considering you can post just about anything you want.
Originally posted by Avlon
Exactly, Supes has one shotted her and Zoom hasn't. That tells the story right there. WW has also stated that Supes is the most powerful being on the planet.and that he's superior to everyone in almost every way.
Because Superman is more powerful, he just wouldn't win the fight. Zoom can't heat vision the planet to dust and etc, but he can beat the snot out of Superman.
And Zoom doesn't try to knock out Diana, he only wants to make her stronger. Otherwise he wouldn't have started hammering those Amazons, but killed Diana instantly. That's kind of Zoom's selling point, he's trying to make them stronger, not kill them.
Originally posted by Avlon
I didn't say HURT, I said KO. We both know it will never happen. They can land their punches..but will eventually be pwned.We've seen Supes ko speedsters, not the other way around.
Stop addressing Flash and Zoom as the same character. And it will never happen because Zoom will never fight Darkseid and the times when Superman does fight Darkseid the writers have him win because he IS Superman, not because he would win on paper. That argument doesn't fly on KMC.
Okay, that's great. Still won't matter against Zoom.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You're basing your entire argument off of the fact that Superman is DC's golden boy. You also refuse to acknowledge the difference in speed between Superman and Zoom. Zoom isn't slightly faster, Clark wouldn't even see him.
Where did I refuse to acknowledge anything regarding speed? Golden boy or not..the feats are there in multitudes. Like it or not.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
And they DON'T have Superman's perception? You got that straight, where as Superman might be able see further, Zoom perceives things über slow.
And Supes doesn't...hell, his eyes and senses don't even work in the same way as anyone elses...
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
There's also the matter of Superman having thousands of comics dedicated solely to him, and Zoom being a villain in a Flash comic. Trying to use the size of someone's respect thread is an incredibly weak argument considering you can post just about anything you want.
The amount of material based on him is not my problem. Plenty of old characters have huge libraries and don't match up to either character. That's a poor argument. The feats are there. Simple as that. If you're saying that I can pull basically "whatever I want" then that's quite a testament to the character, don't you think?
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Because Superman is more powerful, he just wouldn't win the fight. Zoom can't heat vision the planet to dust and etc, but he can beat the snot out of Superman.
Ok, so show where he's been more than an annoyance then. Who has Zoom KO'd? Because Wally can't see someone, it hardly means that Supes can't see him. 2 completely different levels of perception.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
And Zoom doesn't try to knock out Diana, he only wants to make her stronger. Otherwise he wouldn't have started hammering those Amazons, but killed Diana instantly. That's kind of Zoom's selling point, he's trying to make them stronger, not kill them.
Oh, come on dude...and Superman holds back his true power all the time. Point is Superman has done ish in battle and out of battle that would make Zoom weep.
Zoom doesn't have anything comparable in battle. Period.
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Stop addressing Flash and Zoom as the same character. And it will never happen because Zoom will never fight Darkseid and the times when Superman does fight Darkseid the writers have him win because he IS Superman, not because he would win on paper. That argument doesn't fly on KMC.
Feats have been shared between the two on certain posts..so how about you tell your fellow Zoom supporters to stop then?
On paper = on comic... and guess what we base things on?
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Okay, that's great. Still won't matter against Zoom.
Yea, Zoom has never Ko'd anyone like Superman..but why would that matter? Besides the fact that it totally disregards the potential argument created by Zoom supporters.
Originally posted by Avlon
Where did I refuse to acknowledge anything regarding speed? Golden boy or not..the feats are there in multitudes. Like it or not.
Show me some speed feats that would put Superman on par with someone who can move faster than Wally can see.
Originally posted by Avlon
And Supes doesn't...hell, his eyes and senses don't even work in the same way as anyone elses...
Doesn't mean he would be able to see Zoom.
Originally posted by Avlon
The amount of material based on him is not my problem. Plenty of old characters have huge libraries and don't match up to either character. That's a poor argument. The feats are there. Simple as that. If you're saying that I can pull basically "whatever I want" then that's quite a testament to the character, don't you think?
You're trying to use the size of his respect thread as a argument, how the hell is claiming that's wrong a poor argument?? Namor has a bigger respect thread, but that doesn't mean he's stronger than either of these two. I said "POST" WHATEVER YOU WANT not pull, hence why flaunting the size of someone's respect thread is stupid. See the connection?
Originally posted by Avlon
Ok, so show where he's been more than an annoyance then. Who has Zoom KO'd? Because Wally can't see someone, it hardly means that Supes can't see him. 2 completely different levels of perception.
He was a mere annoyance in the Flash comics? I must've missed out on that one. Yes, they are different. But when Flash and Zoom fought, they passed Superman and he was nothing more than a statue. Wally even says that he wouldn't be able to assist in that battle.
Originally posted by Avlon
Zoom doesn't have anything comparable in battle. Period.
He can travel through time, he can blitz the Flash/Wonder Woman, he can take hits from characters with insane super strength and he can hit harder than Superman.
I don't see why he needs to beat jokers like Mongul Jr or whatever to prove that he's on Superman's level.
Originally posted by Avlon
Feats have been shared between the two on certain posts..so how about you tell your fellow Zoom supporters to stop then?
..... You want me to tell Galan and the rest to stop debating?
Originally posted by Avlon
On paper = on comic... and guess what we base things on?
Here come the super-fun semantics.
What I meant was that Superman wins battles against Darkseid because he's riding the PIS wave. Clear enough?
Originally posted by Avlon
Yea, Zoom has never Ko'd anyone like Superman..but why would that matter? Besides the fact that it totally disregards the potential argument created by Zoom supporters.
Superman has never KO'd Zoom, so I guess your whole "BY HE HAZENT KOD SUMUNEZ" argument goes out the window.
Knocking out a random speedster is hardly comparable to taking on Zoom.
If Zoom went after superman here, it would not even be close. Zoom for the win. Its like me beating the crap out of a living statue.http://img232.imageshack.us/i/13qo5.jpg/
