Jla vs low/mid Heralds

Originally posted by carver9
So with that said do you consider hyperion a high herald to since he has every ability that you named. Every hyperion that existed should be a high herald because they can do everything that you just named, they dont have as many appearances as superman to do more with there power.

I agree with you, superman could give a herald a fight, hell hulk could give a herald a fight but just because you can compete with someone dont put you on that scale unless you think that wolverine is a top tier because he can fight hulk. 😕

The thing is that being a high herald is not based on just power set alone. Feats come into play as well. Superman hasa fairly versatile powerset and has used it to accomplish some pretty insane feats. Its that combination that makes him high herald. Hyperion may have an identical powerset but without the feats to support it, he cant be high herald.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I know what they both are. Opinions can vary on what PIS is, for example Flash getting tripped up is not neccesarily PIS because he does not alwyas travel at FTL speed. It could be argued that its CIS that he gets tripped and punked because he chooses sometimes not to travel that fast.

Anyway you think Bullseye giving problems to bullet doodgers is PIS also. So it just seems to me if you dont like something its PIS.

Whether he travels at sound or lightspeed is irrelevant, because his reaction time is still at insane levels. Saying that him being tripped/tagged by people far slower than him is not PIS but CIS is an idiocy.

It's good to see you bring something from other threads into this one and attaching a stupidity to it. No, I don't count as PIS something that I don't like, but something that is well within a character's capability (like dodging a punch from a much slower opponent) but doesn't happen eventough it is well within his powerset.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Doing the 'just stop please' routine. He might be wrong but his post wasnt that bad surely.

it was. it was very much so, imo. comparing superman to wolverine, of all people?

wolverine is an under dog, that's part of his thing. he's small, but he's quick and the best at what he does.

the other guy is SUPERMAN. the biggest player in DC, with powers beyond that of 90% of DC. when there's a crisis, superman is one of the main characters. when machines that have murdered gods come to earth, its superman that people turn to. when the angels themselves come down from heaven, who takes them on? Superman.

comparing him to someone like logan, or likening his situation to that of logan, shows a lack of knowledge and respect of and for the character.

Originally posted by Raoul

any gl with half a brain has their shield up quickly to protect themselves. if it was magneto, now, he could cause damage, but that would assume that none of the others had knocked him out.

I dunno man, if Kyle had his shield up he wouldnt have got shot by Promotheus. Hes also lost his ring more than once... I dunno im sure he can help in the fight though.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman has a way of using the abilities that he has at a rate that is different then any other but his out put of power is still just heat vision and ice breath. He has mastered his powers to do things beyond anyone else with that same power set but surfer powers along with any other herald is so much more.

Hulk has used and master his strength and healing factor in ways that any other brick has done like punch through time streams, hit intangible people, etc... but he is still a brick and aint close to being a high herald. Just because you have mastered your abilities shouldnt make you something that you're not.

I can barely think of any bricks with healing factors.

Now can I see any ways that Hulk has "used" his healing factor, other than healing.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Whether he travels at sound or lightspeed is irrelevant, because his reaction time is still at insane levels. Saying that him being tripped/tagged by people far slower than him is not PIS but CIS is an idiocy.

It's good to see you bring something from other threads into this one and attaching a stupidity to it. No, I don't count as PIS something that I don't like, but something that is well within a character's capability (like dodging a punch from a much slower opponent) but doesn't happen eventough it is well within his powerset.

If you're not even going to bother to be polite, get lost.

Originally posted by Raoul
it was. it was very much so, imo. comparing superman to wolverine, of all people?

wolverine is an under dog, that's part of his thing. he's small, but he's quick and the best at what he does.

the other guy is SUPERMAN. the biggest player in DC, with powers beyond that of 90% of DC. when there's a crisis, superman is one of the main characters. when machines that have murdered gods come to earth, its superman that people turn to. when the angels themselves come down from heaven, who takes them on? Superman.

comparing him to someone like logan, or likening his situation to that of logan, shows a lack of knowledge and respect of and for the character.

Dammit, have to admit you're right.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dunno man, if Kyle had his shield up he wouldnt have got shot by Promotheus. Hes also lost his ring more than once... I dunno im sure he can help in the fight though.

well, kyle has had some pretty bad moments during his time as a gl. in one issue he'll be a world beater, in another he's getting punked. a lot.

lately, though, he's been more consistent (well, up until IC, anyways), so i don't think he's still quite the young rookie he once was.

Originally posted by Naija boy
The thing is that being a high herald is not based on just power set alone. Feats come into play as well. Superman hasa fairly versatile powerset and has used it to accomplish some pretty insane feats. Its that combination that makes him high herald. Hyperion may have an identical powerset but without the feats to support it, he cant be high herald.

How can you have feats with far less appearances and again superman has done some amazing things with the SET of powers that he has but so have others. Storm has done some amazing things with the limited powers that she has, hulk, hell gambit became new sun with his limited set but again that doesnt increase there powers it just give them a change in there abilities.

Originally posted by Raoul
well, kyle has had some pretty bad moments during his time as a gl. in one issue he'll be a world beater, in another he's getting punked. a lot.

lately, though, he's been more consistent (well, up until IC, anyways), so i don't think he's still quite the young rookie he once was.

Fair enough im just pointing out hes not always hot stuff the same with The Flash.

Superman defeat many people who are Herald Level. He even defeat DS on a few ocassion. That should put him in herald level. He defeated demons in their own realms, destroyed angles, and well he is Superman. Duh!!! Nobody can argue against that! NOBODy

As to this fight. JLA have a huge advantage in speed again. Flash steals speed, and thats where the oppnents are screwed/

Originally posted by Raoul
it was. it was very much so, imo. comparing superman to wolverine, of all people?

wolverine is an under dog, that's part of his thing. he's small, but he's quick and the best at what he does.

the other guy is SUPERMAN. the biggest player in DC, with powers beyond that of 90% of DC. when there's a crisis, superman is one of the main characters. when machines that have murdered gods come to earth, its superman that people turn to. when the angels themselves come down from heaven, who takes them on? Superman.

comparing him to someone like logan, or likening his situation to that of logan, shows a lack of knowledge and respect of and for the character.

I was comparing superman to wolverine, I was giving you examples. I guess I should have worded my post right and everyone jobs to superman, wolverine, and spiderman anyway, so I dont see a difference.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Fair enough im just pointing out hes not always hot stuff the same with The Flash.

oh, i know, i just believe personally that a lot of their failures tend to be PIS rather than CIS.

Originally posted by carver9
I was comparing superman to wolverine, I was giving you examples. I guess I should have worded my post right and everyone jobs to superman, wolverine, and spiderman anyway, so I dont see a difference.

dur

"jobs to superman"

really?

dur

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman defeat many people who are Herald Level. He even defeat DS on a few ocassion. That should put him in herald level.

As to this fight. JLA have a huge advantage in speed again. Flash steals speed, and thats where the oppnents are screwed/

So has wonder woman and hulk but they're still not even close to being herald level characters.

Originally posted by Raoul
dur

"jobs to superman"

really?

dur

Darkseid has been jobbing for years, he should be able to one shot superman every damn time.

Originally posted by Raoul
oh, i know, i just believe personally that a lot of their failures tend to be PIS rather than CIS.

Hmm ok what are you're opinion on The Flash it seems to me that his reaction can vary. For example when he was fighting Zum he didnt start at FTL speed he gradually reached that speed. It seems to me that his reaction time can vary depending on what speed he travels but I would still expect him to have amazing reflexes even when stationery.

Carver.....

And another thing.....

And furthermore....

Phantom Zone, you should feel blessed that Carver's on the scene. I'd usually reserve durs and facepalms for you. Enjoy your reprieve while it lasts. biscuits

Originally posted by carver9
So has wonder woman and hulk but they're still not even close to being herald level characters.

Originally posted by carver9
Darkseid has been jobbing for years, he should be able to one shot superman every damn time.

why?

you been reading final crisis, btw?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hmm ok what are you're opinion on The Flash it seems to me that his reaction can vary. For example when he was fighting Zum he didnt start at FTL speed he gradually reached that speed. It seems to me that his reaction time can vary depending on what speed he travels but I would still expect him to have amazing reflexes even when stationery.

he does have amazing reflexes while standing still. afaik, his perceptions shift as he gets faster to keep up, but as standard, he's still insanely fast reflex wise.

Originally posted by carver9
How can you have feats with far less appearances and again superman has done some amazing things with the SET of powers that he has but so have others. Storm has done some amazing things with the limited powers that she has, hulk, hell gambit became new sun with his limited set but again that doesnt increase there powers it just give them a change in there abilities.

Well its true that they hve far less appearances and thats unfortunate for them but stil, without the feats they cant be in the same class as superman, Storm has done some amazing things with her powerset but certainly not high herald level things. While i also agree that hulk has done some amazing things as well, he is simply too one dimensional to be at the high herald level. I dont know why u r mentioning gambit and new sun because iirc it DID constitute an increase in gambits overall powerlevel.

also wasnt it another universes gambit?