Originally posted by Silent Master
You’ve already basically admitted that Cap is strong enough to perform the feat on his own, therefore there is no reason to try and downplay the feat using your version of “real life physics”.
When did I admit Cap is strong enough to perform the feat?
And downplaying entails making something it's not (lying essentially).
Originally posted by h1a8
Strength of pulling =/= strength of grip. All Cap needed was strength of grip (to prevent line from slipping).
As far as pulling is concern, the car supplied some force. Assume that Cap didn't pull but just held the line taut. The helicopter would have still been pulled by the car. Do you agree?
You forgot Cap pulled it downwards, not just along. Unless you're thinking a car engine is more powerful than a copter?
Try this and you would see what I'm talking about.
Tie one end of a rope to something heavy (not too heavy) and try to pull the object to feel how hard it is.
Now get in a car or truck (bracing your feet to something) and have the truck move slowly while pulling the object again with the truck moving.
Is it easier, the same, or harder to pull the object in the truck than outside the truck?
Where your thought experiment fails, is that in your example, you're only pulling (slowly) along in one direction, and your object is static.
Originally posted by Badabing
Shut up.Everyone else, please get back to the topic. This nonsense about Cap's foot being pressed against the car seat is beyond stupid.
The topic is concerning Cap's strength which is relevant in determining how he would fare against the much stronger Green Goblin. Someone is using the helicopter feat to prove Cap's strength. I'm arguing that the car assisted in the pull as well as the copter being much lighter than a normal helicopter.
With that said,
I believe this fight is a split or a slight majority to Green Goblin. Goblin is very fast, agile, and has great enough reflexes not to succumb to Cap's skill right away. Cap would have to put a hell of a fight against him. Cap will win at least a few definitely though.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes and the pull is strength of arm. If the car helped a lot he would not have had to pull the rope across to make it crash, if you think about it. Just hold on to the line. Cap even states stop the car.That feat is probably around the 5-7 ton range considering the helicopters own resistant pull and the strength of Caps pull is very impressive, since the copter was at the back and ended up in the front of there car when it crashed.
I'm glad the majority agree with this.
Cap definitely wins the majority of the fights but it will be a tough battle for sure but not always.
Outside of Cap massive skill edge. The guy is a super soldier and his stats are damn impressive to have feats of pulling down a helicopter to many others like stopping a car. Goblin is stronger but Cap's own incredible stats combo of speed, strength, reflex, and agility down to even his enhanced mind.
Just seals the deal.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yes and the pull is strength of arm. If the car helped a lot he would not have had to pull the rope across to make it crash, if you think about it. Just hold on to the line. Cap even states stop the car.That feat is probably around the 5-7 ton range considering the helicopters own resistant pull and the strength of Caps pull is very impressive, since the copter was at the back and ended up in the front of there car when it crashed.
False, the copter was in equilibrium (not rising or falling). That means it's lifting force (at that moment before the pull) equaled it's own weight. The pull was instant and the operator of the Copter didn't get a chance to fight against the pull (by making the copter rise higher).
It's all about Newton's second Law. The copter wasn't accelerating in the vertical direction implies that the net vertical force acting on it was 0 (weight force=lift force). Thus any force is capable of pulling it down, provided the copter is not trying to rise before the pull.
Lastly, the copter wasn't a normal one. It was more a glass toy flying machine that probably weighed less than a car. Thus your estimate of 5-7 tons is asinine.
In conclusion, the feat is not a feat at all or at most it is not a good one to show that Cap's strength is anywhere close to Goblin's.
I'm glad the majority agree with this.Cap definitely wins the majority of the fights but it will be a tough battle for sure but not always.
Outside of Cap massive skill edge. The guy is a super soldier and his stats are damn impressive to have feats of pulling down a helicopter to many others like stopping a car. Goblin is stronger but Cap's own incredible stats combo of speed, strength, reflex, and agility down to even his enhanced mind.
Just seals the deal.
Yet you and others believe movie Ozy loses to movie Cap when the strength difference is smaller but Ozy is much faster h2h and much more skilled than movie Cap.
With that said, skill will only get you so far. Speed is a much greater attribute (it trumps skill anyday of the week). Goblin is very fast and agile and have a significant strength advantage. This would be a tough one for Cap but Cap will win at least a few. IMO Goblin will win a slight majority or split.
Originally posted by h1a8
But Goblin is very fast, and has great reflexes and agility. These will add to his strength advantage to make it very hard for Cap.This is the best out of 10 since either can win some.
Aaand he rarely shows that. Goblin's metahuman stats were revealed later in his career via retcon and Cap's beat on people faster and more agile than him (stronger, too), Spider-Man being a great example.
Originally posted by Silent Master
What Green Goblin feats did you use to reach that conclusion?
Well we know of his strength. As far as speed, we seen him engaging Spider-man and reacting to him quite often. even caught Spider-man's attack before. Very agile when moving around avoiding attacks as seen again in his fights with Spider-man. And being on that glider maneuvering like that takes hella balance, agility, and reflexes. I'm just going by average general Goblin stuff. Nothing in particular stands out in my memory. Bottom line:
1. He has superhuman speed
2. He has superhuman agility
3. He has superhuman reflexes
4. He has superhuman durability and healing
5. He has superhuman strength
6. He has superhuman intelligence
He makes Cap work hard for it.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Aaand he rarely shows that. Goblin's metahuman stats were revealed later in his career via retcon and Cap's beat on people faster and more agile than him (stronger, too), Spider-Man being a great example.
Cap beating Spidey is PIS and cannot be used.
Spidey would spite stomp Cap easily.
In conclusion, it is not who you beat but how you beat them that holds water.
Also, BS. Goblin has metahuman stats since his creation. Just read his first appearance.
Originally posted by h1a8
Well we know of his strength. As far as speed, we seen him engaging Spider-man and reacting to him quite often. even caught Spider-man's attack before. Very agile when moving around avoiding attacks as seen again in his fights with Spider-man. And being on that glider maneuvering like that takes hella balance, agility, and reflexes. I'm just going by average general Goblin stuff. Nothing in particular stands out in my memory. Bottom line:1. He has superhuman speed
2. He has superhuman agility
3. He has superhuman reflexes
4. He has superhuman durability and healing
5. He has superhuman strength
6. He has superhuman intelligenceHe makes Cap work hard for it.
Other people we have seen engaging Spider-man and reacting to him are Cap, Nightcrawler, Daredevil, Gambit, Deadpool etc etc etc
Do you have any other Goblin feats?
Originally posted by h1a8
Cap beating Spidey is PIS and cannot be used.
Spidey would spite stomp Cap easily.In conclusion, it is not who you beat but how you beat them that holds water.
Also, BS. Goblin has metahuman stats since his creation. Just read his first appearance.
No, it's not PIS. Any mod can tell you that.
He wouldn't, he lacks the skill and experience to take on the famous super soldier from WWII.
In his first appearance Goblin uses his tech, the flying broom and goblin sparks... goblin formula was introduced later and at first it only boosted his intelligence.
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Either provide actual feats or stop posting. GG may be stronger than Steve, but his other stats are inferior (except maybe healing)... unless proven otherwise, which I don't see happening.