Originally posted by inimalisttell people they don't need the government and they think you want to rape babies
It's not that, Anarchy fails to address that people aren't able (at least not now) to live in this perfect world it depends on to exist, where greed doesn't exist. Build that utopian world first and fill it with people that won't want more than their neighbor or won't want to lead others, then Anarchy can reign.
So order is needed and governments provide that, unless we all go back to small tribes of 30 or so people. Even then, those small tribes had hierarchy, so in a sense they had a form of government.
Originally posted by Robtard
It's not that, Anarchy fails to address that people aren't able (at least not now) to live in this perfect world it depends on to exist, where greed doesn't exist. Build that utopian world first and fill it with people that won't want more than their neighbor or won't want to lead others, then Anarchy can reign.So order is needed and governments provide that, unless we all go back to small tribes of 30 or so people. Even then, those small tribes had hierarchy, so in a sense they had a form of government.
Evidence?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Evidence?
I call the to the stand "The Real World" as my witness.
Sometimes certain truths are just much too obvious. Why would ANY scientist try to prove that humans are greedy or selfish?
When a scientific study is undertaken, it is to gain new knowledge or a new perspective.
I mean, how lame would it be to pick up National Geographic and on the front of the cover it says, "New Study Shows Humans Are Selfish." My first reaction would be, "NO WAY!"
But here's something that you may or may not be aware of. Not exactly a double blind study that's been peer reviewed, but scientific, none the less. It's a good read. I like this guy. 😄
http://astore.amazon.com/science-books-20/detail/0199291152
Now, I submit to you that if it were not for technology and modern medicine, humans would have continued to evolve into a more altruistic species. I would say that something like pure communism or pure anarchy would be possible. However, humanity is far and away removed from being altruistic enough to execute those systems. We are simple...wait for it...too selfish.
As a budding priest, you probably know better than most that the natural man is an enemy of God. This is simply how God made us.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I call the to the stand "The Real World" as my witness.Sometimes certain truths are just much too obvious. Why would ANY scientist try to prove that humans are greedy or selfish?
When a scientific study is undertaken, it is to gain new knowledge or a new perspective.
I mean, how lame would it be to pick up National Geographic and on the front of the cover it says, "New Study Shows Humans Are Selfish." My first reaction would be, "NO WAY!"
But here's something that you may or may not be aware of. Not exactly a double blind study that's been peer reviewed, but scientific, none the less. It's a good read. I like this guy. 😄
Yeah I am aware of the book...never read it though, perhaps I should. Surely to say accurately that anarchy doesn't work you have to test it? I assume communities that exist in anarchy have been set up and tested...it seems like a fairly viable TV programme experiment if nothing else.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Now, I submit to you that if it were not for technology and modern medicine, humans would have continued to evolve into a more altruistic species. I would say that something like pure communism or pure anarchy would be possible. However, humanity is far and away removed from being altruistic enough to execute those systems. We are simple...wait for it...too selfish.As a budding priest, you probably know better than most that the natural man is an enemy of God. This is simply how God made us.
Man is the enemy of man...maybe...
Still, I am unsure if a truely selfish species would be able to come up with and propgate such an ideology...
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Yeah I am aware of the book...never read it though, perhaps I should. Surely to say accurately that anarchy doesn't work you have to test it? I assume communities that exist in anarchy have been set up and tested...it seems like a fairly viable TV programme experiment if nothing else.
Wasn't Europe in the dark ages a form of anarchy? It's been years since I studied the history of political science like that...maybe a whole decade. I can't remember if they pegged some of that existence as "anarchy".
You could probably remember for me.
But, yeah, "anarchisms" exist out there to a certain degree, but even in those systems there are very strong social norms and social positions (such as shaman) that don't make it pure anarchy in the sense that you and I would agree on. I could be wrong....because I'm not an anthropologist. There very well could be human systems out there that are excellent examples of anarchy.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Man is the enemy of man...maybe...
I could have sworn that the natural man is the enemy of God is in the New Testament?
*researches*
I'm right.
1 Corinthians 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Still, I am unsure if a truely selfish species would be able to come up with and propgate such an ideology...
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to interpret this because I'm thinking of about 3 or 4 ways to take this. I'll just go with what I like.
Our species is both selfless and selfish. Our species is so very successful because of all the built in "altruisms."
However, greed and the like are so prevelant that we massacre each other on a daily basis.
Those altruisms you speak of again might actually coincide with the 'selfish humans' thang too.
The idea being that those 'do good' instincts were formed as a method of ensuring a better tommorrow for the instinct holder.
(Nature's way of ensuring that you learn the idea of things you do affecting your survival prospects tommorrow.)
Interestingly, people who spend way too much time alone, seem lose this instinct a little, their social skills alter and become very "selfish" or utterly self orientated.... this makes that look like a default mode of existance minus other people/social stimulus...
Just an observation.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Those altruisms you speak of again might actually coincide with the 'selfish humans' thang too.The idea being that those 'do good' instincts were formed as a method of ensuring a better tommorrow for the instinct holder.
(Nature's way of ensuring that you learn the idea of things you do affecting your survival prospects tommorrow.)Interestingly, people who spend way too much time alone, seem lose this instinct a little, their social skills alter and become very "selfish" or utterly self orientated.... this makes that look like a default mode of existance minus other people/social stimulus...
Just an observation.
Actually, you're correct. I believe inimalist cited a source for what you're on about in the religion section for a thread about where atheists get their morals.
Originally posted by Rogue JediWell, it's obviously for publicity. I don't think he's dumb anyways, whether he's really smart, don't know. I would doubt he'd get 10 years for that though, I would assume that the maximum sentence is not applied to some minor vandalism.
What do you guys think, is this MFA fighter extremely smart, or an asshead?
Originally posted by jaden101
I love the fact that most anarchists organise their protests...the exact opposite of anarchy...There's even a group called the "anarchist alliance"...hahaha...idiots
Groups or clubs aren't opposites of anarchist thought. They are quite valid and included in anarchist ideas, you are probably thinking of a solely chaos seeking anarchy which would deny all formal structure in anything. Which is really a quite simplistic view of Anarchy in general.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, you're correct. I believe inimalist cited a source for what you're on about in the religion section for a thread about where atheists get their morals.
the study says nothing of introverts being less altruistic, which it appears to me was Sadako's main point...
Originally posted by Robtard
It's not that, Anarchy fails to address that people aren't able (at least not now) to live in this perfect world it depends on to exist, where greed doesn't exist. Build that utopian world first and fill it with people that won't want more than their neighbor or won't want to lead others, then Anarchy can reign.So order is needed and governments provide that, unless we all go back to small tribes of 30 or so people. Even then, those small tribes had hierarchy, so in a sense they had a form of government.
anarchy is not utopian, nor do I believe it as such. All systems have problems.
many communities of self selected individuals have established societies in places like Costa Rica which are self sufficient and essentially "anarchist" in their forms of government.
In Spain, Anarchists were able to set up vibrant communities which only fell because of Franco and the fascists.
Kronstadt, in Russia, would from all appearances have been successful were its people not obliterated by the russian army.
Historically, before the establishment of fixed social institutions (and in many cases afterward) tribal and band societies have had very fluid authority systems, largely created for single instances of action or out of necessity. Almost identical to the social organization that anarchists find to be the most beneficial.
Look, there have been more than enough "shit on anarchy" thread, just go revive one of them.
Originally posted by inimalist
Look, there have been more than enough "shit on anarchy" thread, just go revive one of them.
I'm not here to shit on anarchy for the sake of shitting on anarchy, imo, it fails, like true communism. Not that speaking about anarchy is completely off-topic, but okay.
I still think the guy is a fool, he vandalised a building and tried to pass it off as something else. IMO, he'll get slapped with the maximum fine and probably serve a very short jail sentence; it's for him to decide if the publicity he garnished from said stunt is worth the dollars and time lost.
Originally posted by inimalist
the study says nothing of introverts being less altruistic, which it appears to me was Sadako's main point...
No thats just observed in RL with all of the people Id known over the years who are reclusive.. (some intensely reclusive people, not just people who prefer to stay in.)
Also my ex GF was and an NHS OT.... And she agreed with me also, based on her experience with patients..
So until disproved, In going with my theory that there is some relationship there..
Hell. I'll study it. Giss some funds then..... 😉
Originally posted by Robtard
I'm not here to shit on anarchy for the sake of shitting on anarchy, imo, it fails, like true communism. Not that speaking about anarchy is completely off-topic, but okay.I still think the guy is a fool, he vandalised a building and tried to pass it off as something else. IMO, he'll get slapped with the maximum fine and probably serve a very short jail sentence; it's for him to decide if the publicity he garnished from said stunt is worth the dollars and time lost.
you can say it isn't a political statement all you want, I hardly think that is the judge.
He deserves whatever sentence he gets, and any point he tried to make is lost if he doesn't take it.
I think most people would agree it isn't a political statement, but okay. If I were to spray-paint "****" on the side of a police car and claim I did it as a statement against police corruption, would it cease to be vandalism and be a "political statement?"
He'll hire a lawyer and fight it, it'd guess.
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Was the study addressing that dynamic?
no, hence my comment
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
No thats just observed in RL with all of the people Id known over the years who are reclusive.. (some intensely reclusive people, not just people who prefer to stay in.)Also my ex GF was and an NHS OT.... And she agreed with me also, based on her experience with patients..
So until disproved, In going with my theory.
not surprising, most people do that even in light of really good evidence