Cyborg Superman vs. Silver Surfer

Originally posted by quanchi112
It isn't admissible. Unless Venom can take on Superman and such according to you then do not be a hypocrite. The jla/avengers crossover is the only exception.

Apples and Oranges. Black Panther armbarring Surfer is a canon battle.
Re-read the rules, it doesn't ban crossovers...it states that they aren't always admissible since they don't always make sense.

SS and Henshaw wasn't a bad showing for either one...and it's certainly a better battle/scenario than the ridiculous things I've seen in this thread.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When Ds recovered it oneshotted Henshaw's body at the time.

There was no 1 on 1 battle. 2 suckerpunch style shots of the OE while Henshaw fought Superman. Surfer simply went down to one blast from a weakened DS. Unlike Henshaw who kept fighting evenly with Supes after the 1st OE shot...SS was in no condition to fight afterwards.

Originally posted by Avlon
Apples and Oranges. Black Panther armbarring Surfer is a canon battle.
Re-read the rules, it doesn't ban crossovers...it states that they aren't always admissible since they don't always make sense.

SS and Henshaw wasn't a bad showing for either one...and it's certainly a better battle/scenario than the ridiculous things I've seen in this thread.

There was no 1 on 1 battle. 2 suckerpunch style shots of the OE while Henshaw fought Superman. Surfer simply went down to one blast from a weakened DS. Unlike Henshaw who kept fighting evenly with Supes after the 1st OE shot...SS was in no condition to fight afterwards.

It was quite clear in hp that henshaw couldn't survive the oe when Ds was fully recovered.

Originally posted by Avlon
Pretty much. Of course, the ridiculous Surfer scenarios the SS fans make up are perfectly admissible to them.

It's a better, fairly even, and more logical scenario than the drivel being made up by SS supporters.

And no it's not. Show me Henshaw draining the power directly from a foe like Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by Avlon
I love how because he's primarily a Superman villain, he must automatically lose to Surfer.

Originally posted by Avlon
Surfer is going to get a highmaster to 100x his power AND a partner to double the power output of the blast? A ring by itself is a planet destroying weapon.

Originally posted by Avlon
By the same token, Henshaw has never been one shotted by a laser pistol.

Originally posted by Avlon
The OE never one shotted Henshaw....It HAS however One shotted Surfer in their crossover and that DS was nowhere near full power.... 🙂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You may think SS opening a black hole in Henshaw's form is ridiculous, but he's actually done so on-panel nonchalantly. But he wouldn't need to since it only takes a planet-busting shot to kill Henshaw.

And no it's not. Show me Henshaw draining the power directly from a foe like Silver Surfer.
Straw-man. I never said such a thing. But you and a couple of others have stated that because henshaw gives Superman such a hard time, he beats up Surfer.
The blast didn't even totally destroy the planet. And show me a single post-Crisis scan that shows a GL blowing up a planet.
A pistol designed by the frikkin Elders of the Universe. Are you really so desperate for proof that you have to mischaracterize thigns so outright? That's about as ridiculous as saying that Orion and Darkseid were killed by pistols. Please.
Crossovers are not admissible evidence. You're just as much a troll about violations of SPvFL as The Great Galen is. I can't think of any other poster that talks about BPvSS more than you two guys. And you go one step further and keep spouting off nonsense about crossovers. Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence.

Originally posted by Raoul
STOP. TROLLING. for the love of all that is good and pure in the world, STOP IT. STOP NOW.

[b]STOP.

seriously though. do it again, and it's a warning. [/B]

How am I trolling, the agurment was made that Hank got KO'ed by a planetary blast so I simply remarked that every blast SS has been KO'ed with was not even city wrecking.....I just think going by colliterial damage is not always the most intelligent line of debating.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
How am I trolling, the agurment was made that Hank got KO'ed by a planetary blast so I simply remarked that every blast SS has been KO'ed with was not even city wrecking.....I just think going by colliterial damage is not always the most intelligent line of debating.

tenebrous and aegis are collectively above galactus. saying they couldn't wreck a building IS trolling.

Originally posted by Raoul
tenebrous and aegis are collectively above galactus. saying they couldn't wreck a building IS trolling.

I'm not saying they couldn't wreck a building...most meta's can accomplish that obviously. I was simply stating that the particular shots that almost destroyed SS didn't look powerful enough to even destroy a tank.....just a simple observation.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I'm not saying they couldn't wreck a building...most meta's can accomplish that obviously. I was simply stating that the particular shots that almost destroyed SS didn't look powerful enough to even destroy a tank.....just a simple observation.

Originally posted by Mindset
Did you not see the scans?

Didnt look city wrecking let alone planet busting 🙂 .

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/Annihilation-HeraldsofGalactus2-035.jpg?t=1233902840

Really? 😐

Originally posted by Mindset
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/Annihilation-HeraldsofGalactus2-035.jpg?t=1233902840

Really? 😐

And........the blast was hardly enough to cover a bus, and SS did get wrecked pretty bad to the point where he couldn't even move.

Out of that scan you notice the blast and not Tenebrous destroying the construct, which is about the size of a small moon...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I'm not saying they couldn't wreck a building...most meta's can accomplish that obviously. I was simply stating that the particular shots that almost destroyed SS didn't look powerful enough to even destroy a tank.....just a simple observation.

to wreck norrin the way they were doing is hitting with the strength of square miles at the very least, and thats just an understatement...

Originally posted by Raoul
to wreck norrin the way they were doing is hitting with the strength of square miles at the very least, and thats just an understatement...

Dude...I'm not aguring that point. We all know the destructive output of these 2...just saying there shots were not stated or even shown capable of destroying a city let alone a planet. It's not that i''m arguing they cant because obviously that would be a very quan/goober thing to do....but I just think its foolish to hold hank being KOéd by a planet destroying then refusing to except that Norrin has been KOéd by far less.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Dude...I'm not aguring that point. We all know the destructive output of these 2...just saying there shots were not stated or even shown capable of destroying a city let alone a planet. It's not that i''m arguing they cant because obviously that would be a very quan/goober thing to do....but I just think its foolish to hold hank being KOéd by a planet destroying then refusing to except that Norrin has been KOéd by far less.

norrin has been ko'd by less, but being ko'd by T & A is not nearly a good example to use.

also, don't namedrop.

Originally posted by Raoul
also, don't namedrop.

I was going to spam your names a couple of dozen times. But I changed my mind. 😄

...

... I'll save it for when I really piss you off to tip you over the edge. 💃

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You may think SS opening a black hole in Henshaw's form is ridiculous, but he's actually done so on-panel nonchalantly. But he wouldn't need to since it only takes a planet-busting shot to kill Henshaw.

By your example, since it's never happened on panel, it's bordenline trolling. It's never happened, especially not in mid battle.

Tech has drained or cut Norrin off the the pc on multiple occasions. We both know this. Hell, messing with the EM spectrum isn't good for him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And no it's not. Show me Henshaw draining the power directly from a foe like Silver Surfer.

How about you show Surfer creating a black hole in another character or doing one of the 50 ridiculous things you claim he'll do in a fight? I'll be waiting.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Straw-man. I never said such a thing. But you and a couple of others have stated that because henshaw gives Superman such a hard time, he beats up Surfer.

Superman himself would give SS a tough fight. Add a guy who's comparable physically and WAY more diverse and yes he will. Shame on you.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The blast didn't even totally destroy the planet. And show me a single post-Crisis scan that shows a GL blowing up a planet.
A pistol designed by the frikkin Elders of the Universe. Are you really so desperate for proof that you have to mischaracterize thigns so outright? That's about as ridiculous as saying that Orion and Darkseid were killed by pistols. Please.

Nice rant. There is a scan in the GL respect forum that outright states a ring is a planet destroying weapon. You may want to read the story again considering the highmaster multiplied it's power by 100x and there were 2 GL's in it. Strangely enough, a blast from a bloodlusted Guardian did absolutely nothing to Henshaw. Do you want to debate a case that SS is more powerful than a Guardian of the universe?

Just because a pistol is designed by an elder, then it must be uber even though it wasn't stated? Now THAT is a strawman argument my friend. It was a simple laser pistol. Nothing uber was stated or refered about it. If you have proof...feel free to show it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Crossovers are not admissible evidence.

Re-read the rules in case you didn't understand them. Hell, read my original point. On top of that... I specifically stated that it wasn't canon.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're just as much a troll about violations of SPvFL as The Great Galen is.

You mean like how you are claiming that a planet destroying shot will kill Henshaw? Now that is much closer to trolling my friend.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I can't think of any other poster that talks about BPvSS more than you two guys. And you go one step further and keep spouting off nonsense about crossovers. Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence.

Let's put it this way. The x-overs do more justice to the characters than the ridiculous claims you make. I also don't keep a specialized "Supes sucks" folder just for spite like you do. Don't throw stones from a glass house my friend. I'm pretty sure if SS would have wrecked Henshaw in the xover, you and the SS brigade would be championing that like it was a masterpiece.

Use your head and take off the silver tinted glasses. SS vs Henshaw was a much more fair portrayal than the Red Tornado practically pwning Thor in the canon xover.

^ It happened when Silver Surfer found Airwalker's body. You see him discharge energy into his corpse, Surfer zooms off, then, a blackhole. Good job not paying attention. But you're right, he didn't do it in mid-battle, he did it like it was nothing.

Cyborg Superman has been smashed to bits by physical force and energy attacks on multiple occasions. We both know this. And Silver Surfer has far more energy absorbing feats and has more feats that show him either resisting or outright overcoming energy absorption. Want to play the numbers game? Trust me, any which way you'd like to think of it, you'd lose. I shouldn't have to point this out, but you obviously only focus solely on the low-end when arguing against a character. Makes me wonder if you can actually agree and state, "Silver Surfer does have more feats of energy absorption and has resisted it/overcome it more times than it's worked.". Go ahead, say it. Surprise me.
I already showed you Surfer creating a black hole in another character. And I did not claim 50 ridiculous claims. Straw-man fallacy. I only claimed he'd throw a planet-busting shot and beat Henshaw.

And thus you prove my point. ABC logic fallacy. Considering nearly all posters consider Superman to lose to Silver Surfer, in your mind, it's not just shame on me, it's shame on all of us. And before you mistate the rules of logic, that's not an appeal to numbers. I didn't say you were wrong because most people don't agree with a basic premise you rely on, I'm just pointing out that you're calling out a lot of people, not just me.

As you hold me to the standard of providing on-panel proof instead of mere hearsay with Surfer opening a blackhole in another character, hold yourself to the same standard and show me a scan of a GL blowing up a planet instead of mere heresay. Otherwise, double-standard fallacy. Not only that, let's say we accept your double-standard and mere narrative hearsay is trustworthy statement. Henshaw stated that a Highmaster robot was a 100X more powerful. True. He also said that at 100X more powerful, the Highmaster is capable of destroying planets. Hal repeats it when they blow up the planet. So yea. Planet-destroying power, that didn't even completely blow up the planet on-panel. Either standard you adopt, your arguments fail. I also like how you decided to throw in "blood-lusted" to decribe the Guardian. Haha. Is Surfer more powerful than a Guardian? I don't believe so. But that's a false distinction fallacy. Surfer doesn't need to be more powerful than a Guardian to hurt Henshaw. If you sincerely suggest that you'd have to be stronger than a Guardian to damage Henshaw, I suggest that you look at the previous page where Arisia slices Henshaw's arm off. Oops?

Straw-man argumentation is where an opponent wilfully mischaracterizes his opponent's views, oftentimes oversimplifying them, I disingenuous or desperate attempt to make the views easier to rebut. You're thinking of something else. Its logical that an Elder's tech would be more advanced from simple correlative logic. Apparently, you don't see a correlative connection between the gun of a human and the gun of an Elder, nearly the oldest beings in the universe. Your cup of tea.

If its not canon, then don't mention it.

I don't "claim" a planet-destroying blast destroys Henshaw. I proved it. Its not that hard to prove since I posted the scan. If I proved my statement, then stating the fact is not trolling, its posting evidence. Just because you don't like it and wish people would accept your desperate attempts to confuse the clear presentation of the scan does not make it trolling.

Let's put it this way. I proved SS can open black holes in other characters' bodiesm I also proved SS can emit planet-busting shots. I also proved Henshaw was destroyed by a planet-busting shot. I also proved you don't have to be stronger than a Guardian to maim Henshaw. So exactly what sort of ridiculous claims am I making over here in my "glass house?" Get over it. Shut up about non-canon sources, shut up about SPvFL PIS, and start working on real argumentation. You engage in general derision and blatant reliance of fallacious arguments combined with a wilful ignorance of on-panel proof and some of the worst exaggerations by any poster on this board. Superman inhaling hellfire, Superman taking constant blasts of entropy, Superman/Zod destroying a world with their shockwaves... The list goes on. And you expect me to now take your claims regarding the relevance of, out of all things, non-canon sources, seriously?

"Use your head." That's good advice.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It happened when Silver Surfer found Airwalker's body. You see him discharge energy into his corpse, Surfer zooms off, then, a blackhole. Good job not paying attention. But you're right, he didn't do it in mid-battle, he did it like it was nothing.

Cyborg Superman has been smashed to bits by physical force and energy attacks on multiple occasions. We both know this. And Silver Surfer has far more energy absorbing feats and has more feats that show him either resisting or outright overcoming energy absorption. Want to play the numbers game? Trust me, any which way you'd like to think of it, you'd lose. I shouldn't have to point this out, but you obviously only focus solely on the low-end when arguing against a character. Makes me wonder if you can actually agree and state, "Silver Surfer does have more feats of energy absorption and has resisted it/overcome it more times than it's worked.". Go ahead, say it. Surprise me.
I already showed you Surfer creating a black hole in another character. And I did not claim 50 ridiculous claims. Straw-man fallacy. I only claimed he'd throw a planet-busting shot and beat Henshaw.

And thus you prove my point. ABC logic fallacy. Considering nearly all posters consider Superman to lose to Silver Surfer, in your mind, it's not just shame on me, it's shame on all of us. And before you mistate the rules of logic, that's not an appeal to numbers. I didn't say you were wrong because most people don't agree with a basic premise you rely on, I'm just pointing out that you're calling out a lot of people, not just me.

As you hold me to the standard of providing on-panel proof instead of mere hearsay with Surfer opening a blackhole in another character, hold yourself to the same standard and show me a scan of a GL blowing up a planet instead of mere heresay. Otherwise, double-standard fallacy. Not only that, let's say we accept your double-standard and mere narrative hearsay is trustworthy statement. Henshaw stated that a Highmaster robot was a 100X more powerful. True. He also said that at 100X more powerful, the Highmaster is capable of destroying planets. Hal repeats it when they blow up the planet. So yea. Planet-destroying power, that didn't even completely blow up the planet on-panel. Either standard you adopt, your arguments fail. I also like how you decided to throw in "blood-lusted" to decribe the Guardian. Haha. Is Surfer more powerful than a Guardian? I don't believe so. But that's a false distinction fallacy. Surfer doesn't need to be more powerful than a Guardian to hurt Henshaw. If you sincerely suggest that you'd have to be stronger than a Guardian to damage Henshaw, I suggest that you look at the previous page where Arisia slices Henshaw's arm off. Oops?

Straw-man argumentation is where an opponent wilfully mischaracterizes his opponent's views, oftentimes oversimplifying them, I disingenuous or desperate attempt to make the views easier to rebut. You're thinking of something else. Its logical that an Elder's tech would be more advanced from simple correlative logic. Apparently, you don't see a correlative connection between the gun of a human and the gun of an Elder, nearly the oldest beings in the universe. Your cup of tea.

If its not canon, then don't mention it.

I don't "claim" a planet-destroying blast destroys Henshaw. I proved it. Its not that hard to prove since I posted the scan. If I proved my statement, then stating the fact is not trolling, its posting evidence. Just because you don't like it and wish people would accept your desperate attempts to confuse the clear presentation of the scan does not make it trolling.

Let's put it this way. I proved SS can open black holes in other characters' bodiesm I also proved SS can emit planet-busting shots. I also proved Henshaw was destroyed by a planet-busting shot. I also proved you don't have to be stronger than a Guardian to maim Henshaw. So exactly what sort of ridiculous claims am I making over here in my "glass house?" Get over it. Shut up about non-canon sources, shut up about SPvFL PIS, and start working on real argumentation. You engage in general derision and blatant reliance of fallacious arguments combined with a wilful ignorance of on-panel proof and some of the worst exaggerations by any poster on this board. Superman inhaling hellfire, Superman taking constant blasts of entropy, Superman/Zod destroying a world with their shockwaves... The list goes on. And you expect me to now take your claims regarding the relevance of, out of all things, non-canon sources, seriously?

"Use your head." That's good advice.

I'll address this excessively long, twisted, and confused emo driven rant of yours at a later point when I'm off from work.

LOL @ "Shut up" as an argument. Masterful debating there, much better than what you claim Great Galan can do. 😉

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It happened when Silver Surfer found Airwalker's body. You see him discharge energy into his corpse, Surfer zooms off, then, a blackhole. Good job not paying attention. But you're right, he didn't do it in mid-battle, he did it like it was nothing.

I know this. It's still a far cry from pulling off a maneuver in battle which is YOUR claim. So prove it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cyborg Superman has been smashed to bits by physical force and energy attacks on multiple occasions.

Funny, SS has been KO'd by such attacks himself. Henshaw simply heals/upgrades and keeps going.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
We both know this. And Silver Surfer has far more energy absorbing feats and has more feats that show him either resisting or outright overcoming energy absorption.

He's also had examples of it being outright stolen or tampered with where he couldn't take it right back...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Want to play the numbers game? Trust me, any which way you'd like to think of it, you'd lose.

You can play it if you want. Trust me, there is PLENTY of low end stuff for Surfer. Funny should should bring this up and then say...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I shouldn't have to point this out, but you obviously only focus solely on the low-end when arguing against a character.

..drivel like this considering I usually go middle ground and you make up ridiculous scenarios in your fanboy mind. I've stated SS and Henshaw have ways to beat each other.

You put your hands over your ears and yell "Nuh uh!, my silver god can't be beat!!!"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Makes me wonder if you can actually agree and state, "Silver Surfer does have more feats of energy absorption and has resisted it/overcome it more times than it's worked.". Go ahead, say it. Surprise me.

It would surprise me more to see you bring up.."Surfer is powerful but not absolutely invulnerable...gee, both these guys should have tactics that would work on each other." But yea...that would require you to use common sense.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I already showed you Surfer creating a black hole in another character. And I did not claim 50 ridiculous claims. Straw-man fallacy. I only claimed he'd throw a planet-busting shot and beat Henshaw.

I asked you to show this in mid-battle, not to create a black hole in relatively peaceful positions where he has time to and can keep going.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And thus you prove my point. ABC logic fallacy. Considering nearly all posters consider Superman to lose to Silver Surfer, in your mind, it's not just shame on me, it's shame on all of us. And before you mistate the rules of logic, that's not an appeal to numbers. I didn't say you were wrong because most people don't agree with a basic premise you rely on, I'm just pointing out that you're calling out a lot of people, not just me.

ABC logic when 3 peers are being debated? Are you even serious about this?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As you hold me to the standard of providing on-panel proof instead of mere hearsay with Surfer opening a blackhole in another character, hold yourself to the same standard and show me a scan of a GL blowing up a planet instead of mere heresay.

But you haven't proven anything. Especially, anything that I didn't already know. I've asked for this in the heat of battle, especially against a moving opponent. Not a stationary dying guy with plenty of time to set off a timed attack.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Otherwise, double-standard fallacy. Not only that, let's say we accept your double-standard and mere narrative hearsay is trustworthy statement. Henshaw stated that a Highmaster robot was a 100X more powerful. True. He also said that at 100X more powerful, the Highmaster is capable of destroying planets. Hal repeats it when they blow up the planet. So yea. Planet-destroying power, that didn't even completely blow up the planet on-panel. Either standard you adopt, your arguments fail.

I stated precisely what was on panel. The ring is classified as a planet destroying weapon. I also told you were it can be found. Try reading it again. "The Highmaster amplifies our power 100 times over" with 2 GL's inside. Let me know when SS can match a 200x amped GL.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I also like how you decided to throw in "blood-lusted" to decribe the Guardian. Haha. Is Surfer more powerful than a Guardian? I don't believe so. But that's a false distinction fallacy. Surfer doesn't need to be more powerful than a Guardian to hurt Henshaw.

Hmm...the guardian made reference to incinerating him right before the blast... gee...what would THAT imply?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you sincerely suggest that you'd have to be stronger than a Guardian to damage Henshaw, I suggest that you look at the previous page where Arisia slices Henshaw's arm off. Oops?

I've never stated anything of the sort. The same applies to Surfer though. Herald levelers have hurt him/ko/beaten him before. I sincerely suggest you take off the fanboy glasses, relax, and try a real debate.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Straw-man argumentation is where an opponent wilfully mischaracterizes his opponent's views, oftentimes oversimplifying them, I disingenuous or desperate attempt to make the views easier to rebut.

I suggest you stop pretending to be more intelligent than you are... get it "ONEDUMB?"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're thinking of something else. Its logical that an Elder's tech would be more advanced from simple correlative logic. Apparently, you don't see a correlative connection between the gun of a human and the gun of an Elder, nearly the oldest beings in the universe. Your cup of tea.

In other words... a strawman argument in which you have convinced yourself of something despite it never have actually been stated. Good show ol' chum. I never said a human gun either. You are oversimplifying. See how easy that is? 🙂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If its not canon, then don't mention it.

Last I remember, you aren't, nor will ever be...a mod. I suggest you remember your place buddy boy. I happen to agree with that particular representation whether it's part of their official history or not. You have your fanboyish views of a Surfer that doesn't exist anywhere but your mind.

+1 some kind of reasonable non smvfl on panel representation from the company.

-1 Onedumbs ridiculous assessment and one sided views.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't "claim" a planet-destroying blast destroys Henshaw. I proved it. Its not that hard to prove since I posted the scan. If I proved my statement, then stating the fact is not trolling, its posting evidence. Just because you don't like it and wish people would accept your desperate attempts to confuse the clear presentation of the scan does not make it trolling.

No, trolling is your statement that destroying a planet will KILL Henshaw.
Surfer can destroy a planet...great.. Never denied that. Now the power generated directly on Henshaw is a different story. SS can't generate 200x GL power. Nothing difficult to grasp there.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let's put it this way. I proved SS can open black holes in other characters' bodiesm I also proved SS can emit planet-busting shots. I also proved Henshaw was destroyed by a planet-busting shot. I also proved you don't have to be stronger than a Guardian to maim Henshaw. So exactly what sort of ridiculous claims am I making over here in my "glass house?" Get over it. Shut up about non-canon sources, shut up about SPvFL PIS, and start working on real argumentation. You engage in general derision and blatant reliance of fallacious arguments combined with a wilful ignorance of on-panel proof and some of the worst exaggerations by any poster on this board. Superman inhaling hellfire, Superman taking constant blasts of entropy, Superman/Zod destroying a world with their shockwaves... The list goes on. And you expect me to now take your claims regarding the relevance of, out of all things, non-canon sources, seriously?

This has already been refuted either in this thread or respective threads, no clue why you chose to go into a long emo rant for it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Use your head." That's good advice.

It sure is....so when are you going to start? I hope I can call you "OneSmart" sometime. 🙂

Try not to bore me with another long silly rant now. I hope you don't do this to people irl. Hopefully, it's only forum behavior.

Toodles! 😛