Luke Cage (with upgrade) vs Abomination

Originally posted by Metalmanx
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So you're saying that if I was suddenly given an adamantium skeleton (barring any of the negative effects of adamantium, and let's even assume there is no additional weight), I would be twice as strong?

one the extra weight does matter, makes you heavier, you hit harder and you are even more durable. Also your muscles become stronger, because you have to lug around the extra weight. Also ideally you have a healing factor, to balance everything out.

Basically, with Luke's upgrade he is a beast.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
You don't think the comics matter...? Keyword here is "bio". Bios aren't primary canon or canon at all.

I didnt say they didnt. Bios are innocent until proven guilty. The reason why bios are not primary sources...usually is because they get strength levels wrong alot. However they get alot of other stuff right eg. bios tend to get general description of powers correct and even if they get exact strength levels wrong they tend to be right about ranking.

In the case of Wolverine he doesnt actually have peak-human strength he has superhuman strength, which means the bio is incorrect about his strength level but not about it being doubled. Also wiki stated that Wolverines strength is increased by adamantuim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jamdav86/Strength_level_(comics)

Peak Human:
Wolverine (without Adamantium skeleton) (800 lb)

Enhanced Human:
Wolverine (with adamantium skeleton) 910 kg (1 ton)

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Wolverine being able to pull an elevator suggest that he has enhanced strength, not that his bones are the cause of it.

No it doesnt. Wolverine was climbing upwards and the lift was hanging off one arm. That lift weighed several tons probably and hes never pulled that much weight on one arm before. Considering the fact that his arms would never fall off because of his bones im pretty sure the adamantuim bones helped.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

He had superstrength way before he ever got adamantium.

Like I said bios get exact strength levels wrong but that doesnt mean they are incorrect about a strength boost.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

I think the weapon x dudes also augmented his speed and healing ability. If they had just given him an adamantium skeleton, he would have healed slower and been slower. They obviously augmented him some other way too. (When Sabes first got the adamantium, Logan didn't notice anything being different until he hit a bone)

That doesnt mean that the adamantuim didnt boost his strength. At the end of the day its stated that Wolverine has a strength increase from Adamantuim and theres no reason why Sabretooth shouldnt.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

No you don't. Only thing you have is one lousy bio and a pretty damn bad logic to boot.

No not at all. Again all you have is your opinion. Two bios is better than you stating something is incorrect.

Its not lousy logic at all. Logically adamantuim should increase your strength because yours bones wont break and Sabretooth is not any different from Wolverine except hes taller and has blonde hair, so it could damn well be argued that part of his strength boost was from adamantuim.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Spider-man holds back a lot and he's not a brawler.

He doesnt hold back when fighting people with superhuman durability. Hes not a braeler but hes still a skilled combatant.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
🤨

So you're saying that if I was suddenly given an adamantium skeleton (barring any of the negative effects of adamantium, and let's even assume there is no additional weight), I would be twice as strong?

When you can already lift 2 tons 100lbs isnt going to do anything.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
The adamantium bones would help you, if you were so strong, that your bones would give in on the weight before your muscles would. That's not the case since Cage's durability is always hyped.

Doesnt matter adamantuim is massively more durable than Cage is and therefore the principle will remain the same.

Originally posted by Brutacus
So it's more likley that abom get's one shotted or beaten by this upgraded version of luke who is still a lot weaker than hulk who abom fought for years.

Than for abom to beat luke cage?

Is that what I said, you keep putting words into my mouth. 😬

Originally posted by Brutacus

The strenght diffrence between the two is still a lot.
Also look at the size diffrence luke is not a small guy, but put him next to abom he is a little guy that would give abom also the reach advantage luke has to get in close to punch abom.

The same could be said about him and Orca, despite that he was able to trade blows with him.

Oh and heres another one.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/James_Howlett_%28Earth-616%29#Strength_level

Strength level
As a result of Wolverine's constant cellular regeneration and the additional weight and tensile strength of his skeleton he has some degree of superhuman strength enabling him to press somewhere in excess of 800 lbs but not more than 2 tons.

Please dont bother pointing out that his strength levels is not just about his adamantuim I didnt say it was.

So you didn't say that this version of luke cage would beat Abom???

I mean think about it, for luke cage to beat abom would be a high end feat even this upgraded version.

And for Abom to lose to this luke cage would be a very low feat in my opinion.

So I still say abom beats this luke 8 out of 10 times.

Wonderman beat Abom, and Luke has gotten the better of Wonderman. Luke bends Abom over and makes him say uncle with this upgrade.

Originally posted by Brutacus
So you didn't say that this version of luke cage would beat Abom???

Just because I said he can beat Abom doesnt mean that I think he will one-shot him.

Originally posted by Brutacus

I mean think about it, for luke cage to beat abom would be a high end feat even this upgraded version.

And for Abom to lose to this luke cage would be a very low feat in my opinion.

So I still say abom beats this luke 8 out of 10 times.

No not really if Luke can duke it out with Orca who is class 80 he will be able to duke it out with Abomination at class 100 with upgrades. Class 80 and 100 arent a million miles away.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Wonderman beat Abom, and Luke has gotten the better of Wonderman. Luke bends Abom over and makes him say uncle with this upgrade.

To be fair WM was holding back, but he was kept underestimating Abom as well otherwise WM may have actually stomped him.

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Wonderman beat Abom, and Luke has gotten the better of Wonderman. Luke bends Abom over and makes him say uncle with this upgrade.

sure bend a guy that is atleast 2 times stronger explain how he's going to do that???

I didnt say they didnt. Bios are innocent until proven guilty. The reason why bios are not primary sources...usually is because they get strength levels wrong alot. However they get alot of other stuff right eg. bios tend to get general description of powers correct and even if they get exact strength levels wrong they tend to be right about ranking.

In the case of Wolverine he doesnt actually have peak-human strength he has superhuman strength, which means the bio is incorrect about his strength level but not about it being doubled. Also wiki stated that Wolverines strength is increased by adamantuim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:J...Strength_level_(comics)

Peak Human:
Wolverine (without Adamantium skeleton) (800 lb)

Enhanced Human:
Wolverine (with adamantium skeleton) 910 kg (1 ton)

It is wrong if you can't find anything in the comics to back it up. It's called speculation.

No it doesnt. Wolverine was climbing upwards and the lift was hanging off one arm. That lift weighed several tons probably and hes never pulled that much weight on one arm before. Considering the fact that his arms would never fall off because of his bones im pretty sure the adamantuim bones helped.

Assuming you're talking about this: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/161/elevatorliftqe9.jpg

I don't think it's that big of a strength feat myself. He's not pulling the elevators upwards, but he's just holding it in place. It's a great testament of the strength of his grip, but even if he was pulling the lift upwards, I don't see how you could decide that it's his adamantium skeleton that allows him to do it.

Like I said bios get exact strength levels wrong but that doesnt mean they are incorrect about a strength boost.

Has it been proven in the comics, that the adamantium skeleton doubles his strength? If not, it's just speculation. Hell, not even Sabretooth's strength was doubled when he got the adamantium (Logan still being able to combat him, and even win and that Sabretooth doesn't have feats for a class 20 strength)

That doesnt mean that the adamantuim didnt boost his strength. At the end of the day its stated that Wolverine has a strength increase from Adamantuim and theres no reason why Sabretooth shouldnt.

He might've gotten a slight strength boost from the adamantium skeleton, but not double his original strength like you claim. Wolverine didn't notice a difference in Sabretooth's strength when Sabretooth first got the adamantium skeleton.

No not at all. Again all you have is your opinion. Two bios is better than you stating something is incorrect.

Its not lousy logic at all. Logically adamantuim should increase your strength because yours bones wont break and Sabretooth is not any different from Wolverine except hes taller and has blonde hair, so it could damn well be argued that part of his strength boost was from adamantuim.

I have evidence from comics that goes against your little theory... And some common sense too, which you apparently lack. I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING, THE GOD DAMN BURDEN OF PROOF FALLS ON YOUR SHOULDERS. You've yet to prove that anyone who gets a adamantium skeleton, get's their strength doubled.

Like it has been said before. Sabretooth had superstrength before he was augmented in anyway (could "easily" crush an iron dumbbell) then his strength was upgraded in Death Hunt arc, he didn't get his first adamantium skeleton until way later, and even then Wolverine didn't mention anything about his strength. I find it highly unlikely that Sabretooth had only his adamantium back as an upgrade. Wolverine commented on his speed, strength and healing factor. It's more likely that Wolverine's and Sabretooth's base strength came from their healing factors.

When you can already lift 2 tons 100lbs isnt going to do anything.

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS YOUR LOGIC BEHIND THIS. How does one such as MetalmanX get a strength boost from adamantium? It's not a god damn magic wand that lets your wishes come true..

Doesnt matter adamantuim is massively more durable than Cage is and therefore the principle will remain the same.

Plz tell me how this works..... Luke Cage isn't strong enough to break his bones by lifting something.. (His skin is supposed to be strong as titanium, imagine how strong his bones are. And he's *only* a class 25) How on earth would the adamantium bones help him in any way?

Originally posted by Rhinoceros
It is wrong if you can't find anything in the comics to back it up. It's called speculation.

Not entirely as I explained already bios get exact strength levels incorrect but dont get general powers and abilities incorrect, and since bios are based on the comics its more proof that just saying it doesnt.

3bios is better than just saying it doesnt. It may not double his strength but at the end of the day I have more proof than just an opinion.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Assuming you're talking about this: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/161/elevatorliftqe9.jpg

I don't think it's that big of a strength feat myself. He's not pulling the elevators upwards, but he's just holding it in place. It's a great testament of the strength of his grip, but even if he was pulling the lift upwards, I don't see how you could decide that it's his adamantium skeleton that allows him to do it.

Yeah you're right the fact that hes never pulled something that weighs that much with one arm and the fact that his arms wont fall off because he has an adamantuim skeleton is neither here nor there.

Im pretty sure I saw a poster show the rest of what happened and Wolverine was pulling the lift for some distance.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Has it been proven in the comics, that the adamantium skeleton doubles his strength? If not, it's just speculation. Hell, not even Sabretooth's strength was doubled when he got the adamantium (Logan still being able to combat him, and even win and that Sabretooth doesn't have feats for a class 20 strength)

Not entirely as I explained already bios get exact strength levels incorrect but dont get general powers and abilities incorrect, and since bios are based on the comics its more proof that just saying it doesnt.

3bios is better than just saying it doesnt. It may not double his strength but at the end of the day I have more proof than just an opinion.

I dont even think he was class 10 before the skeleton. 😕 The comics are ambigous but I can think of at least one example of his skeleton assisting with strength.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

He might've gotten a slight strength boost from the adamantium skeleton, but not double his original strength like you claim. Wolverine didn't notice a difference in Sabretooth's strength when Sabretooth first got the adamantium skeleton.

Yeah and you said he had other upgardes as well. Wolverine didnt notice those either. Hell I think LDs got upgrades when she sfirst fought Wolverine and he didnt mention them all either....could be wrong though.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

I have evidence from comics that goes against your little theory... And some common sense too, which you apparently lack. I DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING, THE GOD DAMN BURDEN OF PROOF FALLS ON YOUR SHOULDERS. You've yet to prove that anyone who gets a adamantium skeleton, get's their strength doubled.

What proof? Don't be insulting you fail to understand my point and I even understand your point. Lets try this again.

Not entirely as I explained already bios get exact strength levels incorrect but dont get general powers and abilities incorrect, and since bios are based on the comics its more proof that just saying it doesnt.

3bios is better than just saying it doesnt. It may not double his strength but at the end of the day I have more proof than just an opinion.

If you actually understood my point you wouldnt resort to insults.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Like it has been said before. Sabretooth had superstrength before he was augmented in anyway (could "easily" crush an iron dumbbell)

and you're not listening. Even Wolverine probably had superhuman strength before his adamantuim. What bios get incorrect is exact strength levels that doesnt mean his strength wasnt doubled.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

then his strength was upgraded in Death Hunt arc, he didn't get his first adamantium skeleton until way later, and even then Wolverine didn't mention anything about his strength. I find it highly unlikely that Sabretooth had only his adamantium back as an upgrade.

He probably didnt however that doesnt mean that he didnt get a strength boost.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Wolverine commented on his speed, strength and healing factor. It's more likely that Wolverine's and Sabretooth's base strength came from their healing factors.

Lets see if I can get this straight. You are speculating and insulting me about speculating but you're doing it yourself? Got anything to say that their strength mainly comes from HF and not the skeleton?

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS YOUR LOGIC BEHIND THIS. How does one such as MetalmanX get a strength boost from adamantium? It's not a god damn magic wand that lets your wishes come true..

Whats so difficult to understand? Wolverine already has superhuman strength prior to the adamantuim 100lbs isnt going to hinder him.

Originally posted by Rhinoceros

Plz tell me how this works..... Luke Cage isn't strong enough to break his bones by lifting something.. (His skin is supposed to be strong as titanium, imagine how strong his bones are. And he's *only* a class 25) How on earth would the adamantium bones help him in any way?

Again I really dont understand what you're problem is and you really need to calm down. Adamantuim is still vastly more durable so its should still assist him in lifting. In some circumstances titanuim would crumble just as quickly as bone would.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
In some circumstances titanuim would crumble just as quickly as bone would.

Under just 25 tons of weight? I seriously doubt it.

Originally posted by Bentley
Under just 25 tons of weight? I seriously doubt it.

Doesnt matter though because as I stated adamantuim is vastly more durable than titanuim which is why ths strength boost still applies to Cage.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Man that was badass. Power Man is class 20 by the way. Actually thats between 20-30. 😐

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/atlas.htm

[b]Strength Level: At his normal six foot size, Goliath can lift (press) between 20 and 30 tons, depending upon level of fatigue and other factors. At his maximum 60-foot stature, Atlas possesses Class 100 strength (able to lift in excess of 100 tons). [/B]

That was Cage at class 10. At class 25 he should be able to handle somebody class 75, with upgrades its not a stretch to say class 100.

how does the metal make cage 2xstronger, how long has he had teh skeleton?
is logan 2x stronger because of his adamntium, he was made stronger due to enahce ments to his strength as well?

i don't see how it increases 'press lifting strength' aside from reinforcing his bones so they won't break from the heavy load's pressure , they don't help with lifts so much as tehy help with supporting load feat

the weight of the adamntium would not be significant for cage to train with and get stronger its only 100lbs even for someone the size of sabretooth) that is 0.2% of 25 tons , (i.e. i wouldn't be stronger if i increased weight by 500g) it is more significant to logan to whom the weight is heavier

the only thing that could potentially increase his strength is the HF , allowing him to lift more fror longer without muscles tearing or healing too quickly to let the weight damge him permanently

Originally posted by ankur29
how does the metal make cage 2xstronger, how long has he had teh skeleton?
is logan 2x stronger because of his adamntium, he was made stronger due to enahce ments to his strength as well?

i don't see how it increases 'press lifting strength' aside from reinforcing his bones so they won't break from the heavy load's pressure , they don't help with lifts so much as tehy help with supporting load feat

the weight of the adamntium would not be significant for cage to train with and get stronger its only 100lbs even for someone the size of sabretooth) that is 0.2% of 25 tons , (i.e. i wouldn't be stronger if i increased weight by 500g) it is more significant to logan to whom the weight is heavier

the only thing that could potentially increase his strength is the HF , allowing him to lift more fror longer without muscles tearing or healing too quickly to let the weight damge him permanently

If your bones cant break you can lift more. It might not be 2x but there would be an increase.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If your bones cant break you can lift more. It might not be 2x but there would be an increase.

yh , but it wouldn't be that much more, stronger bones don't make your muscles stronger or bigger which is how strength increases

Originally posted by ankur29
yh , but it wouldn't be that much more, stronger

It might be.

Originally posted by ankur29

bones don't make your muscles stronger or bigger which is how strength increases

Still doesnt change the fact it would make you stronger, at any rate he doesnt need a massive strength boost to hurt and stun a class 100 all he needs is a 5-10 ton increase.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It might be.

Still doesnt change the fact it would make you stronger, at any rate he doesnt need a massive strength boost to hurt and stun a class 100 all he needs is a 5-10 ton increase.

i dunno about 10 more tons but 5, fair enough , he has fought rhino sucessfully , i was justy saying that metal bones don't mean strength doubles

however one must comapre luke's striking force to hulks , Abombination is fairly unpahsed by a calm hulk (90 ton) , luke still comes up pretty short asl abomination woudlnt be phased much

She Hulk said that no one would be able to affect Abomination with skill-based strikes if they did not have her strength backing it.

Originally posted by ankur29
i dunno about 10 more tons but 5, fair enough , he has fought rhino sucessfully , i was justy saying that metal bones don't mean strength doubles

and the HF could add another 5 tons.

Originally posted by ankur29

however one must comapre luke's striking force to hulks , Abombination is fairly unpahsed by a calm hulk (90 ton) , luke still comes up pretty short asl abomination woudlnt be phased much

I dunno about that WM seemed capable of fighting Abom but he kept underestimating him and being complacent.

Luke has sown to be able to stun people 3 times stronger than himself if he gets 10 ton increase he could possibly KO somebody in class 100.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
She Hulk said that no one would be able to affect Abomination with skill-based strikes if they did not have her strength backing it.

Well that makes it clear cut. Anyway Luke punches are harder than people in his strength range so even if he isnt 75 tons he can hit as hard as somebody in 75 tons.