Sion runs the Gauntlet · Star Wars Versus Forum

Publius II Boss

Originally posted by Kotor3
I was about to agree with your whole statement but I had to re-think it again. As for a greater combatant I agree but as for force user I do not agree. Darth Nihilius,

A complete anomaly.

Sion,

See the above, and he isn't.

Then we separate Sidious who not only specialize but who’s knowledge of the force both light and darkside made him the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

Palpatine's knowledge base completely eclipsed that of Revan.

He also had his age and almost unmatched potential on his side; Revan appears to have had neither. And keep in mind that Revan only had a couple of years to study, and that's probably being generous.

The techniques in which we know that Revan specialize in gives us some insight into how powerful he was in the force. We also know he had a massive amount of knowledge both light and darkside.

Massive? Maybe relative to his time period. But he was a young Jedi Knight; I doubt his light side knowledge was especially impressive in comparison to others.

I do not see how someone who displayed power in TK and speed can compete with a force user who’s knowledge and mastery changed Bane’s life forever.

The training under Githany and Kas'im had a significantly greater impact on his combat ability - the topic at hand - than his exploration of Revan's holocron.

Ventress no matter how good she is in saber combat has not shown the ability to counter force lighting or the other techniques I’ve mention.

The only one with which you have a case is the drain.

Everyone who Ventress defeated force mastery and knowledge is not greater than that of Revan.

They were all established as some of the greatest combatants in the mythos, for one reason or another. Yoda? Most powerful Jedi in history, and therefore superior to any Jedi incarnation of Revan. Mace? A master of the shatterpoint technique and one of the deadliest swordsmen in history; just ask Palpatine. Grievous? Capable of killing in fair combat all but about a dozen Jedi in the Order, and Ventress has defeated several of those herself. Obi-Wan? Arguably the greatest master of his form in history, and a brilliant combatant. Keep in mind that, so far, he's only actually forced a retreat on her part under his own power once; he's fled from Ventress in some form or another in almost all of their other encounters, and required assistance to deal with her in the two from which he emerged victorious. Anakin? A Jedi Knight with raw power on the level of Kar Vastor and Yoda, according to Mace Windu. One of the greatest swordsmen in history, the greatest practitioner of his form that Dooku in his eighty-three years had ever seen - that includes Windu - yet he still required the power afforded to him by rage to overcome Ventress. In their second duel especially, he was visibly losing before he got angry and hurled her off of a building; keep in mind that when enraged, the man was capable of completely overpowering Dooku himself.

So, yeah. Not bad on her part.

Publius II Boss

Originally posted by Kotor3
Right someone who is describe as the heart of the force, strong in the force, subjugated everyone during his time, had everyone in awe of his power including Kreia (Before and after she became a Sith Lord) and Sion, had the same teachings as Bane and more but was not more powerful than Ventress?

1.) That's completely irrelevant to the statement you quoted.

2.) I never said that. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I said that you cannot definitively prove your original statement ("Revan [will] continue to rape Ventress with the Force for fun!"😉

The more you bond with someone the more effect you have on them influential wise and can help you with your force attacks on them.

So Revan's going to bond with his opponent in the middle of a heated battle and then try to kill them (which would actually hurt him)?

Shows a level of mastery and power in the force which you seem to deny.

It shows mastery in a field that is completely unrelated to combat.

You’ve been implying that Ventress is greater and would win since we don’t have enough info on Revan from the start of the conversation. If you are not saying that did what are you saying?

No, I've been outright stating that you don't have the prove to support your claim that Revan will "rape" Ventress with the Force.

So the game makers of Kotor did not center on showing all of Revan’s techniques but let the user hear about them. So Malak knows and he was taught by? Kreia knows and learned where? But Revan who is described and having a hungry for knowledge never learned those techniques or used them during a time of war?

Fair enough.

So your best argument is I did not see so I don't know.

My argument is very clear. It's been very clear. You made a claim ("Revan [will] continue to rape Ventress with Force for fun!"😉 that you cannot possibly validate given current evidence. I asked you to prove it ("Prove it."😉 and you led us here.

Gideon Restricted

You ever feel like you can never win, no matter how well thought your arguments are?

Publius II Boss

Starting to.

Truculent's worse, though. At least kotor quotes me directly; I'm never even sure if Truculent realizes he's addressing someone in particular.

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Publius II
Starting to.
Truculent's worse, though. At least kotor quotes me directly; I'm never even sure if Truculent realizes he's addressing someone in particular.

You thought that too? Like what he's saying is some sort of inner monologue that only he can hear and understand?

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by Publius II
1.) That's completely irrelevant to the statement you quoted.
2.) I never said that. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I said that you cannot definitively prove your original statement ("Revan [will] continue to rape Ventress with the Force for fun!"😉
So Revan's going to bond with his opponent in the middle of a heated battle and then try to kill them (which would actually hurt him)?
It shows mastery in a field that is completely unrelated to combat.
No, I've been outright stating that you don't have the prove to support your claim that Revan will "rape" Ventress with the Force.
Fair enough.
My argument is very clear. It's been very clear. You made a claim ("Revan [will] continue to rape Ventress with Force for fun!"😉 that you cannot possibly validate given current evidence. I asked you to prove it ("Prove it."😉 and you led us here.

Alright, Faunus you never implied anything in connection to Ventress being over Revan it was just my reading comprehension. I already stated at the being that you knew about Revan and that the knoweledge known is not enough for you.

If what is known about Revan is not enough for you then fine, end of argument as I said before. Do you have an answer as to who would win? Or is your answer I do not know?

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Dam, I'm gone from here for a couple of days and I come back to Trucelent quoting Supershadow?!! 😠

@DT dude, Supershadow is the biggest f***in liar when it comes to Star Wars, everything on his shitty site is bullshit, Nebaris doesn't even lie as much as that guy does. Don't quote that SOB again not after all I went through shutting up a few of his supporters in EU forum.

Publius II Boss

Originally posted by Kotor3
Or is your answer I do not know?

It's been "I don't know" because I can't know.

Lightsnake Senior Member

I will just say that I do believe Revan would soundly best Ventress, as powerful and skilled as Ventress is. I would give Ventress a definite edge against Bandon, though.

Publius II Boss

I will just say that I do believe Revan would soundly best Ventress, as powerful and skilled as Ventress is.

But there's a difference between believing something and making a case for it that some people seem incapable of understanding. There's no way of effectively proving that Revan could overpower Ventress in combat, so there's no point in making the argument that he can.

Lightsnake Senior Member

I'd say there's SOME stuff there...Revan did kill Mandalore and Yusanis in single combat, renowned warriors both, and defeated Malak in a straight duel in the Star Forge. And we know his Force knowledge was a frightening thing and he was the strongest Sith of point

Still, there's no objective way to decide as we don't see him do it, so it's hard.

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by Publius II
It's been "I don't know" because I can't know.

Fine. I will stick to my opinion until proven wrong!

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

Sorry I've been gone guys - had an interview with the Air National Guard doing some computer work for the F-16.

I never said that Revan would easily defeat Ventress. Ventress would give him a good bout, but ultimately in the end would lose due to Revan's knowledge of the ancient Sith power. Bane gained much more power through Revan's holocron. Ventress would never be able to surpass Revan in the Force. While Revan fought upper-tier Force users, Ventress fought and killed Jedi average. Probably on the same skill level as Lorana Jinzller. The few Masters you speak of never had the power of Qui-Gon, Mace, Kit and Yoda. They were the strongest in the Force and the best lightsaber artists of their time. She fled from them rather than fight them.

Ventress would easily have been defeated by Malak, but who defeated Malak? Revan.

Oh yeah - sorry about Supershadow guys.

Publius II Boss

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I never said that Revan would easily defeat Ventress. Ventress would give him a good bout, but ultimately in the end would lose due to Revan's knowledge of the ancient Sith power. Bane gained much more power through Revan's holocron. Ventress would never be able to surpass Revan in the Force. While Revan fought upper-tier Force users, Ventress fought and killed Jedi average. Probably on the same skill level as Lorana Jinzller. The few Masters you speak of never had the power of Qui-Gon, Mace, Kit and Yoda. They were the strongest in the Force and the best lightsaber artists of their time. She fled from them rather than fight them.
Ventress would easily have been defeated by Malak, but who defeated Malak? Revan.

1.) You still haven't proven a single one of your contentions.

2.) The best of Revan's time <<< the best of Asajj's time.

3.) Ventress defeated Kit Fisto a year into the war, when she was still a relative neophyte, and immediately afterwards demonstrated that she thoroughly outclassed Obi-Wan. Anakin couldn't defeat her without calling on the dark side, which as we have seen, temporarily grants a Jedi abilities beyond those that they would normally possess.

4.) Lorana Jinzller? That was the most random and completely unsupported comparison I've ever seen, and I spent a week with the anti-homo "slippery slope" argument.

My brain tells me to put you and kotor3 on ignore, but I would never be able to resist peeking.

Darth Sexy Restricted

Faunus is right. As much as I love Revan and think he is superior to Ventress in every sense of the word, there's no concrete evidence.

Lord Lucien Lets all love Lain

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Faunus is right. As much as I love Revan and think he is superior to Ventress in every sense of the word, there's no concrete evidence.

Ditto.

Darth Truculent Truth is written in Blood

What I was trying to say is, that most of the Jedi she killed were your average Jedi. Would never have the power of Yoda or Mace who she wouldn't have a prayer against. Ventress was known to use the saber staff right? That was a fairly common weapon in KOTOR era so Revan would be familar with the weapon and how to defend against it IMO.

Ventress wasn't victorious against the Mandos. How many Jedi did she turn to the darkside? Did she know FD? Could she defeat an Echani weapon master like Revan? Unlikely. Could she defeat someone who knew ancient Sith rituals that even Bane was too terrified to use and Bane was easily stronger than her.

Publius II Boss

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
What I was trying to say is, that most of the Jedi she killed were your average Jedi.

Yes. The two people who manhandled Grievous and Anakin Skywalker are just "average." In case that needs further explanation, at one point or another in the war, she either defeated or nearly defeated all three of those.

Would never have the power of Yoda or Mace who she wouldn't have a prayer against.

Prove Malak or Revan would.

Ventress wasn't victorious against the Mandos. How many Jedi did she turn to the darkside?

I swear I'm going to report you for redundant stupidity. How. Is. This. Relevant?

Did she know FD? Could she defeat an Echani weapon master like Revan? Unlikely.

Again, you suck at Feat Wars.

Could she defeat someone who knew ancient Sith rituals that even Bane was too terrified to use and Bane was easily stronger than her.

Prove that those rituals were usable in an immediate combat scenario.

kotorfan Fruity Darth

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
What I was trying to say is, that most of the Jedi she killed were your average Jedi. Would never have the power of Yoda or Mace who she wouldn't have a prayer against. Ventress was known to use the saber staff right? That was a fairly common weapon in KOTOR era so Revan would be familar with the weapon and how to defend against it IMO.
Ventress wasn't victorious against the Mandos. How many Jedi did she turn to the darkside? Did she know FD? Could she defeat an Echani weapon master like Revan? Unlikely. Could she defeat someone who knew ancient Sith rituals that even Bane was too terrified to use and Bane was easily stronger than her.

Whats FD?

Force Destroy? lol

Elite Hunter Senior Member

Force Drain, I would assume.