Kenshiro (With upgrade) vs Android 17 and 18

Originally posted by carver9
His hands move that fast but his body is still present. Everything about dragonball character is speed, not just there hands.

And you would think you'd stop using anime feats, and just look up the manga, and post stuff from that since a lot of stuff in the anime never happens in the manga. At least in HNK the feats in teh anime and manga are usually the exact same.

Originally posted by carver9
This should also prove that regular dragonball goku is faster than ken, the guy was fighting so fast that he turned to a living tornadoe.>>>> any speed feat ken ever did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-yu2-wxoiA&feature=related

Fast forward to 5 min 18 sec

He wasn't fighting when he did that. He was just simply moving around and as you know, he wasn't really a tornado.

Kenshiro can also move so fast, normal people can't see him. The reason why his body is present at times is because he doesn't constantly move around. Even though that doesn't change the fact that he does things at high speed and goes back to the same position he was at first as if nothing happened.

ok u just seen a vid showing goku using speed on if not abov kens level..and thats Goku as a kid, before training with Kami, King Kai...

Actually that's Goku as a teenager when he was fighting Tien in their second fight.

What did he do then that was above Kenshiro, I have no idea.

When he fought Piccolo Jr. he moved so fast Kami's divine eyes couldn't follow him.

And your point? Many people other than regular humans weren't able to follow Kenshiro either.

DBZ definitely has the movment speed edge on Ken and the punching force (though based on feats, Kenshiro can definitely lift more than Goku oddly). Most of this may be because they can fly, but it's hard to tell. They were on Ken's level with more consistent "teleporting" before flying.

There was a lot of invisible movement in DBZ, but not that many invisible strikes (apart from the fact that they could fly at many thousands of miles per hour and thus be invisible to the human eye). When you see them trading blows in DBZ, you can see their moves clash. When Ken was fighting Han, no one could see their fists flying for a lot of the fight. DBZ moves faster though and their strikes are more powerful.

As for what will actually happen. I think Ken will lose. Look at the brute force fighters in Hokuto no Ken. Juuza was able to hurt Raoh's shoulder with his kick. The attacks in DBZ are of a much higher magnitude. The energy attacks are just off the chart, but even the physical strikes are more powerful than in DBZ (though again, this could be because of flying). Kenshiro may get his bones broken like Vegeta did.

Musou Tensei is his only hope of countering the androids (and since only 16 had a ki scouter, there's no chance of them locating him). He can pick up life from nothingness and he appears to have no distinct location. Only Kai-Oh was able to stop this by distorting space and blocking Ken's ability to tap into the void. As a result, Ken's own ki gave him away, but the androids won't know this and can't sense ki as well as having no ki signal of their own. Musou Tensei should allow Ken to survive. It activates as a death blow is about to strike. It means Nil-Thought Reincarnation after all.

Having said that Ken would lose, with Musou Tensei, speed is largely meaningless. The Artificial Humans will have some power points to hit, so it's possible for Ken to win this way, especially with his power up.

No Musou Tensei? I think Ken loses.

He is using Musou Tensei in this fight.

Musou Tensei is a pretty damn broken technique as you can attack while intangible. It looks like quantum physics (lol) because he has no definite position during the attack and he picks up life from nothingness, which is like the concept of virtual particles.

I'm not sure if speed can be used to counter it. Warping space works though.

Originally posted by SmashBro
He wasn't fighting when he did that. He was just simply moving around and as you know, he wasn't really a tornado.

Kenshiro can also move so fast, normal people can't see him. The reason why his body is present at times is because he doesn't constantly move around. Even though that doesn't change the fact that he does things at high speed and goes back to the same position he was at first as if nothing happened.

You cant show me ANYTHING of ken moving faster than what I showed you with goku turning into a live tornadoe. Counteract my feet and show me something ken has done thats better than that. Ken body is always visible when he fight, the only thing that disappears is his hands and feats which would alway leave for an open attack.

What if ken fought nappa and nappa just lift his hands and nuke the entire area, what is ken going to do. Show me ken surviving a nuke.

Hell goku as a child was throwing people almost out of orbit and across cities.

The android is on a different level and ken is on the level of goku during his fight with king picollo.

Originally posted by carver9
You cant show me ANYTHING of ken moving faster than what I showed you with goku turning into a live tornadoe. Counteract my feet and show me something ken has done thats better than that. Ken body is always visible when he fight, the only thing that disappears is his hands and feats which would alway leave for an open attack.

This may be my personal view but simply looking like a tornado isn't more impressive than moving fast without being seen, something which Kenshiro has done. Plus, it may LOOK like Kenshiro is open but that's because you don't see him much when he does move.

Originally posted by carver9
What if ken fought nappa and nappa just lift his hands and nuke the entire area, what is ken going to do. Show me ken surviving a nuke.

Kenshiro doesn't have to TAKE the blast. He could also just avoid it too but if you wanna be realistic, Kenshiro, unlike Goku, most likely won't let him power up to do such an attack. One strike to the pressure points and it's all over.

Originally posted by carver9
Hell goku as a child was throwing people almost out of orbit and across cities.

Never heard that they were thrown "out of orbit" or "across whole cities".

Originally posted by carver9
The android is on a different level and ken is on the level of goku during his fight with king picollo.

Yeah, I forgot that Goku back then could also do the Muso Tensei. 🙄

Ken body is always visible when he fight

That's not correct all, even though I don't think Ken moves as fast as Goku. Even taking aside obvious anime filler...

He's jumped faster than the human eye against the Colonel. You can see in the panel a blur and then in the next it shows he's completely disappeared, and he then reappears behind him. He did the same thing to Shin.
He also moves around too quick for Amiba to see at one point, and nearly stabs him through the head, if Amiba hadn't narrowly blocked it. He also attacks a gang of thugs so quickly that they don't even see him run by them. This is during his hunt for Jackal.

He's within Dragonball second tournament speed at times in the manga, and third tournament in the anime.

The android is on a different level and ken is on the level of goku during his fight with king picollo.

Hand to hand, Ken could defeat that Goku, though it would be a tough fight. He would OWN him when you consider Musou Tensei though, however when using energy attacks, they could kill Ken easier than his pressure points could kill Goku.

Hell goku as a child was throwing people almost out of orbit and across cities.

That didn't happen. On a physical level he has some good feats against robots and stuff, but he's never done anything like you described. Kid Goku is less powerful than Ken.
DBZ Goku punches harder than Ken, and even then, he's never punched anybody so hard that they went into orbit. That's Superman level shit.

Kenshiro, unlike Goku, most likely won't let him power up to do such an attack. One strike to the pressure points and it's all over.

The first part is true, but don't assume Kenshiro can kill them instantly. Ordinary thugs in Hokuto no Ken can be killed with a single poke in the head, but tough guys like Juuza and Fudo have resisted the effects of pressure points. I don't think Nappa would explode, so much as spray blood from his pores, ala Falco, or Raoh.

I'm not saying Nappa would instantly die like the thugs, I'm just saying hitting the pressure points on someone have always put them at a severe disadvantage against Kenshiro but you do have a point with the examples you gave.

Actually, that's Etrigan level shit, he's actually punched someone to the moon. LOL

Goku has had some pretty decent feats as both a boy and a man.

Originally posted by SmashBro
I'm not saying Nappa would instantly die like the thugs, I'm just saying hitting the pressure points on someone have always put them at a severe disadvantage against Kenshiro but you do have a point with the examples you gave.

It certainly gives him an advantage, because ordinarily his punching strength would not be great enough compared to DBZ. With pressure points he can hit above his weight and hurt them. And with 20X Kai-Oh Ken + pressure points + Musou Tensei, he'd beat Nappa hand to hand, but I don't think 20 X Ken can survive a nuke explosion, so with energy attacks he'd lose.

Of course, this battle is against the androids who are over one thousand times the power of. Ken can't compete with the level of power he has.

Obviously if he had the physical attributes to compete, he'd win, since Hokuto Shinken is a superior fighting style.

Originally posted by SmashBro
And your point? Many people other than regular humans weren't able to follow Kenshiro either.

Originally posted by Broken Warrior
That's not correct all, even though I don't think Ken moves as fast as Goku. Even taking aside obvious anime filler...

He's jumped faster than the human eye against the Colonel. You can see in the panel a blur and then in the next it shows he's completely disappeared, and he then reappears behind him. He did the same thing to Shin.
He also moves around too quick for Amiba to see at one point, and nearly stabs him through the head, if Amiba hadn't narrowly blocked it. He also attacks a gang of thugs so quickly that they don't even see him run by them. This is during his hunt for Jackal.

He's within Dragonball second tournament speed at times in the manga, and third tournament in the anime.

Hand to hand, Ken could defeat that Goku, though it would be a tough fight. He would OWN him when you consider Musou Tensei though, however when using energy attacks, they could kill Ken easier than his pressure points could kill Goku.

That didn't happen. On a physical level he has some good feats against robots and stuff, but he's never done anything like you described. Kid Goku is less powerful than Ken.
DBZ Goku punches harder than Ken, and even then, he's never punched anybody so hard that they went into orbit. That's Superman level shit.

The first part is true, but don't assume Kenshiro can kill them instantly. Ordinary thugs in Hokuto no Ken can be killed with a single poke in the head, but tough guys like Juuza and Fudo have resisted the effects of pressure points. I don't think Nappa would explode, so much as spray blood from his pores, ala Falco, or Raoh.

When I say this, I want you to understand, I'm a superman fanatic and I also love goku but I think that goku punching power>superman.

I think goku combat speed>>>>superman and again I have read EVERYTHING of superman so theres nothing that you can tell me that I dont already know and by the way, I'm referring to none super sayain goku.

I just asked you for one example, show me ken fighting so fast that his body isnt visible, trust me, you wont find it. Goku that fought junior would rape him and quite easily. I cant believe that you all are putting him against androids when goku as a teen has enough strength in his legs to jump cloud height, has taken missles to the chest, defeated the entire red ribbon army as a child and easily. Threw a dragon that he fought across a city. Threw a jewish guy cloud height, etc... and this is goku as a child.

Ken would get annihilated by one android instantly and by the way I showed you the androids punching power that puts them above the 100 ton range. Ken would get one shotted

Originally posted by carver9
When I say this, I want you to understand, I'm a superman fanatic

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

By the way, nappa did his nuke attack instantly.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

What are you lol for when its true, trust me, I know more about superman than anyone on this board and I collect ALL of his comics.