Mass Effect 2

Originally posted by NemeBro
[B]She would have killed the police who attempted to detain her, as her code allows. And the asari normally would never question the actions of a Justicar, the cop only did so because her employers forced her to. She was also being arrested for no real reason, other than being a Justicar.
/B]

So what's your point here exactly? If not for Shepard she would have slaughtered a lot of innocents in getting out. Unless you mean being wrongfully arrested makes it ok to kill the police.

I'm not saying what Morinth's been doing the last 400 years isn't wrong, but the initial blame is to be put on the Asari and Samara (like how you blame Cerberus for a lot of what Jack did), Morinth got the choice of exile or death, and decided to run. I'm pretty sure a lot of us would do so too. As for her killing, as stated in the game it's because she is addicted to it, with all the technology and knowledge floating around, I think the Asari have the responsibility to try something more then simply forcing exile or killing the disabled.

Originally posted by Morridini
So what's your point here exactly? If not for Shepard she would have slaughtered a lot of innocents in getting out. Unless you mean being wrongfully arrested makes it ok to kill the police.

That's exactly correct.

And, she never said she would slaughter a bunch of police: only kill the asari police officer for obstructing justice. Samara would never have gone to prison. Her justicar code turns an innocent into a guilty party if they try to obstruct Justice. Also, the Justicar would NOT be a murderer in doing so as it is part of Asari law for her to do so. It's not really murder if it's not only allowed by law, but even considered sacred.

One of the great things about the game is a take on different alien cultures and how their laws and traditions could seem wrong or far above our own. Since you and Nemebro are arguing about the morality of a Justicar, this only proves how well this alien concept was designed.

Also, Samara nicely explains how these things work.

Samara kills for justice, righteousness, and truth.

Morinth kills because she refuses let go of the thrill of killling someone: her other sisters seemed to come to grips with it, but she just enjoyes murder too much.

There is no problem in recognizing one as paragon and one as renegade.

It's like this: Hmmm...should I spare Charles Manson or should I spare Judge Dredd?

One of them is righteous, and one of them is evil. It's as simple as that.

We're humans, we live on Earth (for the moment at least), thus I base all my arguments around human notions of right and wrong, so any cops killed by a Justicar are still innocents.

I wonder what I get if i remained loyal to Liara?

ME 3 is rumored for a '11 release date. I'm skepitical about this date, Because realistically the game should be around 12 or 13.

Originally posted by Phanteros
ME 3 is rumored for a '11 release date. I'm skepitical about this date, Because realistically the game should be around 12 or 13.

Bioware said that not having to upgrade the graphics engine and not having to worry about continuity into another game will allow them to significantly cut the time between the releases of ME2 and ME3 as opposed to ME1 and ME2.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Bioware said that not having to upgrade the graphics engine and not having to worry about continuity into another game will allow them to significantly cut the time between the releases of ME2 and ME3 as opposed to ME1 and ME2.

Originally posted by Morridini
We're humans, we live on Earth (for the moment at least), thus I base all my arguments around human notions of right and wrong, so any cops killed by a Justicar are still innocents.

No, the cops would then obstructers of justice, by your human standards. It's just that, the difference, the justicar has every right, within the asari law, to execute the obstructers of justice. Whereas, our law calls for a trial, usually. However, the Asari are far more socially advanced than humans are and it takes decades of training before a justicar even gets the right to execute someone for violating the Asari code.

laws dont dictate what is right and what is wrong though, only what is acceptable to society. so her acting within the law doesnt mean that what she does is right.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
laws dont dictate what is right and what is wrong though,

The dictates of the societies morals do, though.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
only what is acceptable to society. so her acting within the law doesnt mean that what she does is right.

It does, however, mean she is acting within the law when she is trained to such a degree that killing, for a Justicar, is a black and white decision with nothing gray in-between. The code was designed, over thousands of years, and refined to what it is by ME2. Quite literally, when a Justicar kills, it IS right, but the dictates of the society: the Asari.

The closet concept I can think of is a Judge from Judge Dredd, however, even the Judges can be wrong as they don't have a complex code that is completely memorized and accounts for every decision being a plain black or white.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's exactly correct.

And, she never said she would slaughter a bunch of police: only kill the asari police officer for obstructing justice. Samara would never have gone to prison. Her justicar code turns an innocent into a guilty party if they try to obstruct Justice. Also, the Justicar would NOT be a murderer in doing so as it is part of Asari law for her to do so. It's not really murder if it's not only allowed by law, but even considered sacred.

One of the great things about the game is a take on different alien cultures and how their laws and traditions could seem wrong or far above our own. Since you and Nemebro are arguing about the morality of a Justicar, this only proves how well this alien concept was designed.

Also, Samara nicely explains how these things work.

Samara kills for justice, righteousness, and truth.

Morinth kills because she refuses let go of the thrill of killling someone: her other sisters seemed to come to grips with it, but she just enjoyes murder too much.

There is no problem in recognizing one as paragon and one as renegade.

It's like this: Hmmm...should I spare Charles Manson or should I spare Judge Dredd?

One of them is righteous, and one of them is evil. It's as simple as that.

That was EXACTLY what I was going to post in reply to him, but didn't because I didn't have the time this morning.

Only I would have added a Legion quote.

"No two species are identical. All must be judged on their own merits. Treating every species like one's own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphism."

Asari are not human, according to their laws and beliefs, the word of a Justicar IS law, so Samara in fact WOULD be correct in killing the cop that was stopping her, for she was obstructing justice. The asari possess a different morality than we do, and that sir is why you are a racist.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
laws dont dictate what is right and what is wrong though, only what is acceptable to society. so her acting within the law doesnt mean that what she does is right.

Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]The dictates of the societies morals do, though.

It does, however, mean she is acting within the law when she is trained to such a degree that killing, for a Justicar, is a black and white decision with nothing gray in-between. The code was designed, over thousands of years, and refined to what it is by ME2. Quite literally, when a Justicar kills, it IS right, but the dictates of the society: the Asari.

The closet concept I can think of is a Judge from Judge Dredd, however, even the Judges can be wrong as they don't have a complex code that is completely memorized and accounts for every decision being a plain black or white.

... yes.

You act as though there is a universal morality code.

There isn't.

exactly my point

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
societies morals are just that, societies morals. nothing more nothing less.

Summary: moral relativism which is exactly my point.

What the other dude is saying: moral absolutism.

Originally posted by NemeBro
You act as though there is a universal morality code.

There isn't.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
exactly my point

I'm so confused.

So you agreed with me the whole time, Ms. Marvel?

Why doth though torture me soooooo! 😆

.

Double post. Damnit. On other forums, we can delete our own posts! 😠

i guess i am 😂

I ****ing hate you guys.

.......

hug

Originally posted by NemeBro
I ****ing hate you guys.

.......

hug