Alex vs. Cole

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no limit fallacy and infinite fallacy are the same thing.

he beat keslar remember

1. there is no proof either way. to assume that he isnt is as bad as assuming that he is. only the later has reasoning

2. and? many attacks that cole lives through destroy armoured veheicles with ease

3. you forgot the part where it was too slow for cole due to his reaction powers and his lightening storm WILL electrify them all.

Point?

Haha no. Prove he is. I do not have to prove a negative.

And Alex just survives nukes which were ten times more powerful than the one dropped on Hiroshima.

Oh, and now that I beat Prototype and saw the cutscene on my TV, he regenerated from less than a puddle. He was only a small strand of Biomass.

3. Too slow? It covers nearly a city block near-instantly. 😬 And that is just one attack he has. Hell, I say he shoves his fist in the ground and spikes come up from under Cole, impaling them.

yes u did

keslar points were valid

there is no support for either premise. nor does one have evidence over another. they are both occurances being pointed towards, neither one to be taken for granted. both have to be proven, so there is no negetive here.

not at ground zero, nukes power decreases exponentially with distance due to the inverse square law.

and? cole will atomise him

still happens in slow motion for cole's brain giving him ample time to fry him

That's true. Cole does percieve things in slow-motion, I give him that.

He only sees things in slow motion when he's aiming, otherwise everybody and everything would always be slow mo. So unless he's aiming, then that's a no go. And the ground spike can't really be dodge regardless, since it come from directly under you, and it covers about 30 in a split second.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes u did

keslar points were valid

there is no support for either premise. nor does one have evidence over another. they are both occurances being pointed towards, neither one to be taken for granted. both have to be proven, so there is no negetive here.

not at ground zero, nukes power decreases exponentially with distance due to the inverse square law.

and? cole will atomise him

still happens in slow motion for cole's brain giving him ample time to fry him

No, they were not. Cole has not shown to do any of the things Kessler can do, so he will not be assumed to do so.

The negative is that he cannot survive it. The positive is that he can. Prove he can. Should we assume Cole can survive a planetary explosion? By your (pitiful) use of logic we should assume he could.

Point? He was only about 70 feet away. That would have incinerated Cole.

Show me Cole atomising anyone. 🙂

Lol. And Devastators slow time in-game when he uses them, does that mean Alex is a time manipulator? Oh, and when Alex is aiming, time slows down as well, it also happens when he is transforming. Obvious gameplay mechanic is obvious.

Cole is not a time slower, I'll tell you that.

I wouldn't say so obvious though. It's Cole's vision we're talking about (And Alex perhaps). The only time we see through the eyes of Cole, things are moving in slowmotion. If the same goes for Alex, then both can very possibly percieve things in slow-motion.

Alex would at least be SOMEWHAT believable because he consistently displays superhuman speed and reflexes.

But...If that is just aiming, that is only a gameplay mechanic to make the game easier.

To make the game any easier than it already was, we'd need an "I-WIN-Button", but I guess it could be claimed merely game mechanic. Won't argue it any further.

Aren't there different difficulty settings for the game?

Originally posted by NemeBro
No, I did not. You clearly have no comprehension of the various fallacies and their applications in debate format, so please cease in using them.

No, they were not. Cole has not shown to do any of the things Kessler can do, so he will not be assumed to do so.

The negative is that he cannot survive it. The positive is that he can. Prove he can. Should we assume Cole can survive a planetary explosion? By your (pitiful) use of logic we should assume he could.

Point? He was only about 70 feet away. That would have incinerated Cole.

Show me Cole atomising anyone. 🙂

Lol. And Devastators slow time in-game when he uses them, does that mean Alex is a time manipulator? Oh, and when Alex is aiming, time slows down as well, it also happens when he is transforming. Obvious gameplay mechanic is obvious.

its funny when children try to teach ME what fallacies are. heres another one, just because u say sumthing is true, does not make it so. you have to convince others, and u have failed.

but that wasnt the argument at all. go back and reeducate urself

not the case, since neither can be taken for granted due to lack of precedence. precedence established positives. dont debate with me on fallacies, ull find that u r sorely lacking

only according to you, according to the video he was much further. inverse square law still applies btw.

lightening atomises, fact. bodies remain in game due to gameplay mechanics like bioleech.

idiotic. no1 claimed that he can slow down time and even you have to be smart enough to know that. it was clearly stated that things to COLE move in slow motion due to his incredible reflexes and senses. try again.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Alex would at least be SOMEWHAT believable because he consistently displays superhuman speed and reflexes.

But...If that is just aiming, that is only a gameplay mechanic to make the game easier.

have u played the game? running faster than any human possibly can, surviving falls from incredible heights and this fact having significance in the storyline, he is stated in cannon to be superhuman.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
its funny when children try to teach ME what fallacies are. heres another one, just because u say sumthing is true, does not make it so. you have to convince others, and u have failed.

but that wasnt the argument at all. go back and reeducate urself

not the case, since neither can be taken for granted due to lack of precedence. precedence established positives. dont debate with me on fallacies, ull find that u r sorely lacking

only according to you, according to the video he was much further. inverse square law still applies btw.

lightening atomises, fact. bodies remain in game due to gameplay mechanics like bioleech.

idiotic. no1 claimed that he can slow down time and even you have to be smart enough to know that. it was clearly stated that things to COLE move in slow motion due to his incredible reflexes and senses. try again.

2. You were directly listing things Kessler has done in support for Cole in this fight. That is what you did.

3. Then burden of proof is typically placed on the claim that asserts something exists, in this case, the assertion that Cole has durability to resist being consumed. YOUR claim. YOU prove it. Kthxbai.

4. Okay, let's get some other opinions then. 🙂 How far would everyone say Alex was from the atomic bomb? But really, he could be 100-200 feet, that would still make him more durable than Cole.

5. The vast majority of Cole's attacks are not actual lightning. Also, I do not think you understand how powerful an atomic bomb really is. The one dropped on Hiroshima had if my memory is right the power of 20,000 tons of TNT. The one that hit Alex was ten times as powerful as that. 1 ton of TNT exploding is 4.184 gigajoules. So using some simple math, the bomb that Alex dropped and was hit with had an explosion of about 838,800 gigajoules. Also, where are you getting these ridiculously high numbers for the power of lightning from? From what I just looked up, an average bolt of lightning only has 500 megajoules of energy, even if it lasted for a full minute, it would not equal the half the energy of the bomb. Hell, even positive lightning strikes, the most powerful form I know of that to my knowledge are only from the top of thunderstorms, would not be as powerful. So really, what the hell are you even talking about? Although really, this segment of my post was meaningless, feats or GTFO.

6. If you learned English, you may be able to read my posts a bit more fluently. I was satiring your posts. Alex is able to "slow time" when he performs a Devastator. Also...That goes for anyone with enhanced reflexes and senses. Like Alex.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
have u played the game? running faster than any human possibly can, surviving falls from incredible heights and this fact having significance in the storyline, he is stated in cannon to be superhuman.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
have u played the game? running faster than any human possibly can, surviving falls from incredible heights and this fact having significance in the storyline, he is stated in cannon to be superhuman.

1. Alex isn't human. so I guess Cole doesn't count in the argument in outrunning Alex at all
2. Cole falling from a building = small electrical charge area
Alex falling from a building = wtf death spikes capable of leveling buildings.
3. Alex is capable of firing off headshots while easily sidestepping bullets, he can probably take out 10 spreaded out targets before one shot even makes it to him.
4. If you seen his devestator attacks when they activate notice how nothing at all moves when it happens, so obviously its an instant attack.
5. Cole =/= Superman

@4: Or you know...it could just be a gameplay mechanic...

Alex still takes this. It's just not near as easy as you guys are making it out to be.

Alex throws a car? Cole uses Shockwave.

Alex uses a gun? Cole uses Polarity shield.

The only way Alex wins this is by using his speed to get up close and personal, and Cole can still make it hard since Alex doesn't weigh as much as a car, which Shockwave throws around.

Cole also heals instantaneously by absorbing electricity. And we're in New York city.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
@4: Or you know...it could just be a gameplay mechanic...

Alex still takes this. It's just not near as easy as you guys are making it out to be.

Alex throws a car? Cole uses Shockwave.

Alex uses a gun? Cole uses Polarity shield.

The only way Alex wins this is by using his speed to get up close and personal, and Cole can still make it hard since Alex doesn't weigh as much as a car, which Shockwave throws around.

Cole also heals instantaneously by absorbing electricity. And we're in New York city.

2. Throws a car? Why not an Abrams tank?

3. Like he needs a gun.

4. Alex weighs alot more than you think. Biomass is pretty heavy.

5. Funny, an attack from Alex would kill Cole instantaneously.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
@4: Or you know...it could just be a gameplay mechanic...

Alex still takes this. It's just not near as easy as you guys are making it out to be.

Alex throws a car? Cole uses Shockwave.

Alex uses a gun? Cole uses Polarity shield.

The only way Alex wins this is by using his speed to get up close and personal, and Cole can still make it hard since Alex doesn't weigh as much as a car, which Shockwave throws around.

Cole also heals instantaneously by absorbing electricity. And we're in New York city.

why does anyone even bother to still try Cole against Alex anyway?

Nothing Cole has can really even damage Alex enough to the point of injury. It is as easy as it seems.

Alex can throw even the Abram tank, fast than a bullet an travel to him. Don't know how well Cole's reflexes are on his little car stopping skills.

The polarity shield, considering how fast Alex can react & considering his pretty much perfect aim, it also depends on Cole's reflexes there cause if Alex even bothered with a gun he could get a bullet going to the brain before Cole can shoot off his stun gun hand.

and its true Alex must way alot, cause just crawling on walls he makes dents and large cracks on the buildings.

gameplay mechanic? the first devastator you see is in a cutscene and it works the same.

1. Attacking my age again? It's kind of a silly thing to do when despite being younger than you, since you know I'm considered to be a fairly intelligent poster and you're consider to be perhaps THE most idiotic person on this site. I know what a no-limits fallacy is. For me to commit one I would have to be saying an aspect of Alex would be able to affect anything. Which I never did. Learn your fallacies, moron.

considered smart? sum1's a little delusional. and your claim concerning my image does nothing to support ur argument or ur claim to intelligence. you dont know what a no limit fallacy is, seeing as you dont know that it doesnt always have to be used to justify infinites. again, dont try to lecture ME on fallacies. and i wasnt attacking ur age, i was attacking ur stupidity.

2. You were directly listing things Kessler has done in support for Cole in this fight. That is what you did.

go back and re read., that is not what i was doing at all. i was using a>b reasoning.

3. Then burden of proof is typically placed on the claim that asserts something exists, in this case, the assertion that Cole has durability to resist being consumed. YOUR claim. YOU prove it. Kthxbai.

again, u prove that you know little about fallacies or deductive reasoning. lets turn around and look at the other side "alex has the power to consume said SUPERhuman whose durability against such an attack has never been tested" they are BOTH claims of a possible phenomenon occuring, NEITHER has positive evidence or PRECEDENCE to back them up. as such there are no positives on either side and the argument is at a standstill until either side proves their premise. negetive evidence fallacy doesnt apply here no matter how many linguistic tricks one uses to rephrase the argument.

4. Okay, let's get some other opinions then. 🙂 How far would everyone say Alex was from the atomic bomb? But really, he could be 100-200 feet, that would still make him more durable than Cole.

more durable than ground zero of the ray sphere activation? not by a long shot. inverse square law

5. The vast majority of Cole's attacks are not actual lightning. Also, I do not think you understand how powerful an atomic bomb really is. The one dropped on Hiroshima had if my memory is right the power of 20,000 tons of TNT. The one that hit Alex was ten times as powerful as that. 1 ton of TNT exploding is 4.184 gigajoules. So using some simple math, the bomb that Alex dropped and was hit with had an explosion of about 838,800 gigajoules. Also, where are you getting these ridiculously high numbers for the power of lightning from? From what I just looked up, an average bolt of lightning only has 500 megajoules of energy, even if it lasted for a full minute, it would not equal the half the energy of the bomb. Hell, even positive lightning strikes, the most powerful form I know of that to my knowledge are only from the top of thunderstorms, would not be as powerful. So really, what the hell are you even talking about? Although really, this segment of my post was meaningless, feats or GTFO.

yet he DOES summone lightening from the sky later one which lasts for a long time and can be controlled by the sixaxis. btw. and what are you TALKING about, a single AVERAGE lightening strike has the power of 11 gigawats, while a super hot lightening strike has around 300 gigawatts of power {todd livingstone} , {similar to cole summoning lightening}, the total ENERGY is not in the gigajoule range because lightening strikes last only for milliseconds or even micro seconds, its only the plasma we see with remains longer. now if 300 gigawats were to go on for a MINUTE your looking at 18 TERRAJOULES!!!!!! so please, stop with ur stupidity. and yes, use the inverse square law multplied by alex's exposed surface are and see just how little of the actual energy he suffers at even 100 metres.

6. If you learned English, you may be able to read my posts a bit more fluently. I was satiring your posts. Alex is able to "slow time" when he performs a Devastator. Also...That goes for anyone with enhanced reflexes and senses. Like Alex.

you were mocking my claim with gameplay mechanics. nuthing to do with english, everything to do with idiotic debating tactics. now stop benig rude.

Before reading through the rest of the thread, I'm going to add on the side that to my experience, NemeBro has more intelligence feats than leonheartmm. So in my honest opinion, he wins that hands down.

Now to illuminate some of the misconceptions in this thread:

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^not true. the ONLY human beings who have survived lightening are those that CONDUCTED it to the ground either through peicings, or wet clothes or accessories which helped in the conduction. NO human or heck ANY animal for that matter can survive a direct lightening strike when its energy is NOT conducted away. simply because a lightening strike has such an absurdly large amount of energy, it wud be like saying that a human being cud take the entire brunt of a large bomb. cole can ATOMISE alex instantly.

History and science proves you wrong. A lightning strike has as good as never struck anyone at full force, nor will it do so if summoned by Cole. The numbers you have on lightnings and your idea of the power and temperature does not strictly apply to any case, and especially not in this particular battle.

One of the most famous sites of impact of lightning is on a bluff in Colorado. The lightning strikes directly at one person without conduction first (This case being so famous because not only does it almost kill 19 people, but lightning stuck a random spectator and not the man holding a metal item). This person is knocked out cold and his heart stops, but he comes back to life roughly half an hour later when paramedics shock him.

Not Cole or any lightning can atomise/vaporize a human being by striking them (even directly). The greatest misconception of lightning is that everyone believes the intense temperature and force of impact is a fatal thing, but the truth is that people doesn't die from being struck by the lightning. They die because the electricity is overloading the electrical system of our body, mind and organs, frying the system.

The "death" of a lightning strike can be reverted by another shock of lightning, or by forcing particular organs back into function so that the electric system in your body begin functioning again (Such as CPR)

Also, a conductor can prove the impact of lightning more dangerous than less, because holding a metal item creates a prolonged effect that the body might not prove capable of withstanding.

Another famous case of lightning impact is a man on a bike. Lightning strikes him, but the fact that he held a metal fence was how he would suffer permanent and constantly ascending damage to his brain. He died eight years AFTER the lightning struck his head. The cause of death was "struck by lightning", but the death was a result of system shutdown and not lightning impact.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^but nuthing indicates that he can absorb energy without taking the damage that follows, unless proven otherwise.

In the beginning of the linked video back there, there's as clear an indication as possible that Cole doesn't suffer damage equal to what he absorbs. The first shock he suffer in the video when he walks away from the site should if real science would be applied knock him out cold. Yet he's going through only minor agony before he continue to walk.

That shows how Cole can suffer damage, but far from the extent he is supposed to (when it comes to electricity)

Originally posted by C. C. Cowgirl!
[b]It's true. He doesn't have the feats.

He does summon down real lightning though (For what it's worth. And I'm not claiming real science apply here, because I can't back that up. I can only show implications), and it's beyond significantly more powerful than his regular electricity bolts by easily sending several vehicles flying upon impact. It's also described as actual lightning, rather than electricity or energy like the rest of his abilities. [/B]

What Cole is summoning down is not real lightning. It may be lightning, but it's artificial and for several reasons can not be compared to real lightning. His lightning strike is nothing more than artificial lightning that we have no real idea how he can summon, because him doing so is defying the laws of nature (More than merely being a walking anomaly of the laws)

Because science is failing at several points of Cole's lightning, all real facts about lightning can not flawlessly be applied to a debate.