Originally posted by Robtard
That would be like being vague. What is completely obvious and does smack you right in the face, Xavier's immense mind powers. Which should supersede a maybe, possibly or probably.
So how does someone who needs to be augmented by a machine in order to affect people on 1 planet maybe, possible or probably have a higher degree of mental power than someone who doesn't need to be augmented by a machine in order to hold sway over an entire galaxy? If you take it in terms of other SW character using telepathy then Luke managed to contact Leia with little or no telepathy training from a huge distance.
Originally posted by KingD19
Even the part of the duel that takes place on the broken platform that has fallen into the lava river would have been in excess of 500 degrees...what would be your explanation for the protection from that?
^ Read up on personal shields, they are designed to stop whatever they are designed to stop. Those were heat shields, they stopped the heat from getting through, there was still air in the shields, just like with any shield, otherwise they would have suffocated.Your original point is invalidated...watch the duel...at the point where Anakin says "i should have know the Jedi were plotting to take over" his hair is moving due to travelling at speed through the atmosphere...had this been within the shielding there would be no such effect....hence he isn't protected by the shield.
^Again, shields are only desinged to stop certain things. A shield might stop blaster fire, but a slugthrower or regular sword might get through. But a dueling shield would take hits from the sword, etc...
Ah so they were wearing personal shields now?...evidence?...And if they do why don't they just wear it all the time because if it could protect against the temperatures given off by a massive river of lava then it could protect against basic blaster fire...Regardless...i don't have to read up on it...they weren't in the film.
If you're not suggesting that then how do you explain when Anakin jumps from 1 to the other...He would have been outside the droid shielding and even for that split second he would have burst into flames.
actually the air inside the shields would have also been protected and thus wouldn't be moving to the extent indicted by their hair and clothing.
Originally posted by Impediment
Quit the name calling. Now. That is uncalled for.
Hang on a moment! Why have I been singled out for Moderator attention for calling someone a twit (which as far as I knew had no sexual or otherwise offensive undertones) when people have been calling each other "fanboy" and other such names for over 12 pages?
Doesn't seem all that "Moderate" to me.
Originally posted by MilitantDog
Hang on a moment! Why have I been singled out for Moderator attention for calling someone a twit (which as far as I knew had no sexual or otherwise offensive undertones) when people have been calling each other "fanboy" and other such names for over 12 pages?Doesn't seem all that "Moderate" to me.
1. I haven't been able to log on as much due to other obligations. So that's my fault for not paying more attention to the thread.
2. That's why we have a report button. I checked the report log, and your post was there. Simple as that. I asked you to stop, and I hope that you will.
Originally posted by jaden101
So how does someone who needs to be augmented by a machine in order to affect people on 1 planet maybe, possible or probably have a higher degree of mental power than someone who doesn't need to be augmented by a machine in order to hold sway over an entire galaxy? If you take it in terms of other SW character using telepathy then Luke managed to contact Leia with little or no telepathy training from a huge distance.
If we knew fully the extent of his mind-powers and just how much he exerted them in his scheme, sure, you'd have a point. It's vague at best and he clearly used political subterfuge to pull off what he did, not just something to do with Force manipulation.
Telepathy is great, Xavier has that too. It is also shown that he can control people like puppets(X1), freeze them(X2), erase/manipulate memories(X2) and kill if he likes(X2). All clearly shown in the films.
Never said the jedi were wearing shields, I said the droids had shields, and I was right. Check it
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_lava_collector This was the shielded droid Anakin rode, while Obi-Wan rode a shielded repulsorlift platform.
And when he jumped, they were high enough in the air that the heat affected them, but didn't cause them to burst spontaneously into flame. Just like when Obi-Wan landed on top of the hill of the lava river, he didn't burst into flames then, but when Anakin was on the bank, right near the lava, then he caught on fire.
Originally posted by Robtard
If we knew fully the extent of his mind-powers and just how much he exerted them in his scheme, sure, you'd have a point. It's vague at best and he clearly used political subterfuge to pull off what he did, not just something to do with Force manipulation.Telepathy is great, Xavier has that too. It is also shown that he can control people like puppets(X1), freeze them(X2), erase/manipulate memories(X2) and kill if he likes(X2). All clearly shown in the films.
That's good...Still isn't a patch on what the Sith and Jedi can do though.
What's clear though, is that the SW fans know their stuff and put across valid points and so do the X fans...and what's even more clear is that neither will give in. I can see this "debate" going on forever. Moreover, i don't really like debates involving films with other sources, in this case, the EU and the comics, because they inevitabely start to get clogged up with feats outwith the films.
They also tend to descend into fanboyism and outright flaming.
Originally posted by jaden101
That's good...Still isn't a patch on what the Sith and Jedi can do though.What's clear though, is that the SW fans know their stuff and put across valid points and so do the X fans...and what's even more clear is that neither will give in. I can see this "debate" going on forever. Moreover, i don't really like debates involving films with other sources, in this case, the EU and the comics, because they inevitabely start to get clogged up with feats outwith the films.
They also tend to descend into fanboyism and outright flaming.
In the movies, in regards to mental abilities? I disagree.
That's a huge problem here when a SW thread is made, EU, comics, animations, cartoon and even one's own interpretations tries to get passed off as being valid from a movie standpoint. I obviously agree with you there, this forum for movies only; other forums for their respective fields.
Agreed, but it's heavily on the SW side again, and usually the same repeat offenders.
Originally posted by KingD19
Never said the jedi were wearing shields, I said the droids had shields, and I was right. Check ithttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_lava_collector This was the shielded droid Anakin rode, while Obi-Wan rode a shielded repulsorlift platform.
And when he jumped, they were high enough in the air that the heat affected them, but didn't cause them to burst spontaneously into flame. Just like when Obi-Wan landed on top of the hill of the lava river, he didn't burst into flames then, but when Anakin was on the bank, right near the lava, then he caught on fire.
You're not listening. On a planet of that atmosphere it doesn't matter where you're standing...The temperatures will be ridiculously hot. It's the equivalent of standing next to a lava lake on earth with just a robe on and having no adverse effects from it. That's effectively what you're proposing.
Here's an example of what a human has to wear in order to protect themselves from those temperatures on earth from a relatively (compared with obi-wan and anakin) distance
I had a thought, on Ghost Rider, Hulk and Jean Grey....
Ghost Rider: The Rider destroys that which is evil, we all know that. If you have no evil in you, the Rider is not a threat to you. NOW......What's to keep Ghost Rider from, after he pwns the Sith, to turn on his teammates? Magneto, Phoenix, Sabretooth, they are evil, correct? A Jedi can telepathically tell Ghost Rider "Dude, we are not evil, check your teammates."
Hulk: Hulk has the mind of a child, pretty much. A Jedi can persuade Hulk to go after the X Men, right?
Jean Grey: In the Ghost Rider scenario, Ghost Rider would easily dispatch of Phoenix.
Well technically Phoenix is not good or evil, she's a force of nature. Rage, passion, fury, love, she is basically emotion incarnate, and while he could try to do the Penance Stare on her, the Phoenix feels no remorse for what she did, I doubt it would work on her. If it did, then GR is teh awesome.
Hulk is resistant to telepathic manipulation because of sheer rage and his split personalities. He's so angry, that if he's trying to kill you, and you're fighting back, he's going to keep trying to kill you, and that small part of Banner that's still conscious is more than likely going to keep him focused on you, since you're an obvious threat.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I had a thought, on Ghost Rider, Hulk and Jean Grey....Ghost Rider: The Rider destroys that which is evil, we all know that. If you have no evil in you, the Rider is not a threat to you. NOW......What's to keep Ghost Rider from, after he pwns the Sith, to turn on his teammates? Magneto, Phoenix, Sabretooth, they are evil, correct? A Jedi can telepathically tell Ghost Rider "Dude, we are not evil, check your teammates."
Hulk: Hulk has the mind of a child, pretty much. A Jedi can persuade Hulk to go after the X Men, right?
Jean Grey: In the Ghost Rider scenario, Ghost Rider would easily dispatch of Phoenix.
The host of Ghost Rider is just a person like any other. Its not like he is some kind of supernatural force that is out to get evil people only. Blaze still has consciousness, free will and rationale. He is also capable of hurting "non-evil" people, its just that the penance stare won't be effective.
Xavier can counter all mind manipulation by the Jedi/Sith.
I've explained why the GR turning on teammates scenario is not going to happen. But assuming for a second it did, GR can't even move if Phoenix doesn't want him to.
Originally posted by KingD19Well, she is intent on destroying innocent beings (Jedi). Wouldn't GR realize this and stop her?
Well technically Phoenix is not good or evil, she's a force of nature. Rage, passion, fury, love, she is basically emotion incarnate, and while he could try to do the Penance Stare on her, the Phoenix feels no remorse for what she did, I doubt it would work on her. If it did, then GR is teh awesome.
Hulk is resistant to telepathic manipulation because of sheer rage and his split personalities. He's so angry, that if he's trying to kill you, and you're fighting back, he's going to keep trying to kill you, and that small part of Banner that's still conscious is more than likely going to keep him focused on you, since you're an obvious threat.Is this stated in the Hulk movies? That he is resistant to telepathic maniplation?
Originally posted by PlacidityHow would it not happen? She is the epitome of evil, whether she knows it or not. She is intent on hurting innocents, therefore GR would turn on her.
The host of Ghost Rider is just a person like any other. Its not like he is some kind of supernatural force that is out to get evil people only. Blaze still has consciousness, free will and rationale. He is also capable of hurting "non-evil" people, its just that the penance stare won't be effective.Xavier can counter all mind manipulation by the Jedi/Sith.
I've explained why the GR turning on teammates scenario is not going to happen. But assuming for a second it did, GR can't even move if Phoenix doesn't want him to.
And how exactly would she be able to stop GR? Wolvie killed her with one stab, you saying GR could not do the same?
The only reason Wolverine stopped Phoenix, was because her host(Jean Gray), took enough control to let herself be killed. And although Jean is dead, the Phoenix Force is still very much in existence, since you can't kill what isn't alive in the 1st place. Like I said, the Phoenix Force is a force of nature, emotion incarnate. It's not just evil and rage, but also passion and pleasure, etc... Also, she has wicked powers, and could keep GR away from her all day. Plus, the Penance Stare makes you see every death, I doubt it works on something that has no soul, and no remorse for what it did.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
How would it not happen? She is the epitome of evil, whether she knows it or not. She is intent on hurting innocents, therefore GR would turn on her.And how exactly would she be able to stop GR? Wolvie killed her with one stab, you saying GR could not do the same?
What don't you get about how GR has free-will. Nothing can control him to turn on anyone if he doesn't want to.
Wolvie killed her because she allowed him to, Jean Grey was fighting Dark Phoenix.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I had a thought, on Ghost Rider, Hulk and Jean Grey....Ghost Rider: The Rider destroys that which is evil, we all know that. If you have no evil in you, the Rider is not a threat to you. NOW......What's to keep Ghost Rider from, after he pwns the Sith, to turn on his teammates? Magneto, Phoenix, Sabretooth, they are evil, correct? A Jedi can telepathically tell Ghost Rider "Dude, we are not evil, check your teammates."
Hulk: Hulk has the mind of a child, pretty much. A Jedi can persuade Hulk to go after the X Men, right?
Jean Grey: In the Ghost Rider scenario, Ghost Rider would easily dispatch of Phoenix.