Just to reiterate, the stars in Marvel as stated on panel are "concentrated cosmic life force" and the source of all energy in the universe. Stars not only provide energy but also matter derived from them forms other astronomical structures such as smaller stars, planets, asteroids etc. It is a misconception to think that Phoenix is only responsible for life forms.
Stars are the concentrated energy of the Big Bang, so if Phoenix is the energy source of the stars, what does that say for Phoenix?
Reed Richards conclusion is that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang:
The Phoenix Force avatar is said to be a flame from the Big Bang:
Again. What does that say about the Phoenix Force?
To say that other beings make their own universe and power their own stars is irrelevant to this debate. Does the fact that other beings make their own universes demean Eternity or the other abstracts? So why is the Phoenix being singled out? On top of that unless we're talking about a main universe in the multiversal structure such as 616 or the Ultimate universe, ones which share the same cosmic hierarchical structure, then its irrelevant because theyre pocket dimensions.
The Phoenix Force to my knowledge has never fully manifested anywhere on panel. Its essence and role are not restricted to reality, it also works outside of reality. A shard of the Phoenix Force is still called the Phoenix Force so it is another misconception to believe appearances of the firebird are the full Phoenix Force. The firebird is an avatar as stated on panel. It is an expression of the universal life force that is the Phoenix Force.
Posting scans saying the energy of creation is contained within Eternitys core does not affect my argument in the slightest. Eternity is the physical embodiment of creation so where else would the energies of creation be found but within creation? He was formed by those energies and they flow through him so he can tap into them. Now how does that at all affect my argument or the multitude of scans saying that Phoenix IS the energies of creation?
It doesn't 😬
As for the Alien Entity, he has been hyped up to ridiculous proportions. And its all agenda driven. Any character that can possibly be interpreted more powerful than they actually are, Mr Master has done that in order to place Phoenix as far down the hierarchy as he possibly can, without looking too biased to the casual poster.
The Alien Entitys showing prior to this alleged feat was abysmal. He was easily wounded by bullets and was near exhaustion from fleeing from his people. He couldnt teleport any longer and required Reeds machinery to transport them both to the beginning of time. Whilst there the Alien questioned how life existed. As stated in the issue( see the scans ive previously posted in this thread) THE QUESTION TRIGGERED the creation event. Not only did this alleged feat conclusively not involve any energy generation from the Entity, but he was also only the trigger. He was no creator. That point is mentioned multiple times. The Entitys cosmic nature puts him in sync with these universal energies as many cosmics are, however he lacks knowledge and Reeds scientific mind fills the gap and together it appears as if the creation event is being steered by them. It then dawns on them how the universe came about according to this story arc. The universe itself is a life form trying to understand itself, therefore all life and all its struggles that take place within its borders were created by it in an effort to try and understand the meaning of its own existence.
The comic makes the point of saying that Reed and the Entity are Eternity, everything is as much as the stars are. Their questions on existence, their efforts to understand life mirrored Eternitys own and they as extensions of Eternity were able to signal the Big Bang as he originally did according to this story arc.
Reed and the Entity are no universal creators as some would have you believe. They were merely able to substitute for Eternity as in a way, they like everything within the universe are Eternity.
Now whats more plausible an explanation that or an interpretation that:
a) Ignores the Entitys exhausted state immediately before the alleged feat and the fact that Reed despite his great scientific mind, is not a cosmic
b) Ignores the fact that the comic states multiple times that the question was a trigger and instead insists that the Entity generated through sheer power the Big Bang spark
c) Ignores the statement that says that life exists because the universe is sentient and trying to understand itself
I'll let you decide. 😬
Please bear in mind that the theories of the creation of the universe found in that F4 story arc have no support in any official Marvel source both before and after its publication. It is just one of many different interpretations. This one however contradicts all others thus far because how could Eternity signal his creation before he has been created?
Regardless there is no point in arguing over who is the creator of the Marvel universe because there are a number of characters attributed to that position.
This quote deals with that point nicely:
Perhaps the fact that multiple beings have experienced multiple origins of the universe actually means that the 616 reality is always in a state of flux, constantly re-writing itself as time goes on.
Lets leave it at that.
Phoenix actually being the energies of creation however thats a different matter. I've made my point on that within this thread.
Originally posted by GalacticStormJust cause it's tied to the Phoenix does not necessarily mean LT could not fix it.
The crystal is tied to the Phoenix Force,so i doubt anything not Phoenix related could fix the crystal.
Here we see that the crystal has already been damaged before the dweller started talking about the tribunal
here we see dweller trying to hide from the tribunal it is important to note that Tribunal is not the only that was he was trying to hide....He didn't even mention the Phoenix.
IMO from this the tribunal had the power to stop the dweller easily. He was trying to feed on the "Fear" and the only reason why i see him trying to hide from
Also the Dweller knew that Phoenix could fix the crystal yet he was scared of the tribunal
And the Dweller still lived after the crystal was destroyed later to be consumed by Dspayre
Originally posted by kgkg
Just cause it's tied to the Phoenix does not necessarily mean LT could not fix it.
Here we see that the crystal has already been damaged before the dweller started talking about the tribunal
here we see dweller trying to hide from the tribunal it is important to note that Tribunal is not the only that was he was trying to hide....He didn't even mention the Phoenix.IMO from this the tribunal had the power to stop the dweller easily. He was trying to feed on the "Fear" and the only reason why i see him trying to hide from
Also the Dweller knew that Phoenix could fix the crystal yet he was scared of the tribunalAnd the Dweller still lived after the crystal was destroyed later to be consumed by Dspayre
He could have been hiding from LT because if LT sensed what he was up to he would have dealt with him directly, therefore not leaving him in a position to soak up any fear. He wasnt secure until the crystal had erupted so he laid low.
All speculation KG and not very well supported speculation at that.
