Barriss Offee's Gauntlet!

Started by DARTH POWER8 pages

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

She's definitely better than Dooku, considering she gave Anakin a far, far greater challenge than he did.

No she didn't. I don't remember Dooku ever getting Force Slammed by Skywalker. In fact Skywalker never even defeat Dooku until ROTS. And that fight started with Kenobi's aid.

But she did put up a decent fight. End of story.

And I really hope you don't bring this retarded point up every time someone gives Obi-Wan or Anakin a fight. They do still tend to show Jedi Restraint, something specifically noted by Dooku about Skywalker in the ROTS novel. And something Darksiders and Sith lack.

And Let's not forget whose argument it was in the first place that Fisto=/> Kenobi simply because he was beating Grievous one time.

You lot started that whole line of thinking but then start crying when the same logic is used against your favorite character.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I think he was being sarcastic.

I know he was. But his sarcasm is aimed at mocking me and Arhael.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
This is all just speculation. He looked like he was fighting at full speed to me, therefore, he was. And he was actually trying his hardest to kill her because there were times when he struck at her with blows that could have killed her had she not blocked or evaded them.

She's definitely better than Dooku, considering she gave Anakin a far, far greater challenge than he did.

Pretty much. Dooku may be her better with the Force, but she's clearly his equal or better in Pure Saberz.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

And Let's not forget whose argument it was in the first place that Fisto=/> Kenobi simply because he was beating Grievous one time.

You lot started that whole line of thinking but then start crying when the same logic is used against your favorite character.

💃

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Pretty much. Dooku may be her better with the Force, but she's clearly his equal or better in Pure Saberz.

Agreed. Dooku has FL, she doesn't. And FL is what saved Dooku's ass during him and Anakin's last fight in TCW.

Dooku's Saber Performance against Skywalker was well beyond Bariss's. In "Crisis on Naboo" Anakin just got the edge in Sabers with a Kick which tripped Dooku over some stairs.

But later Dooku puts a more powerful Anakin on his ass via his own Uber Kick in ROTS. And that was while fighting off Kenobi making it an even more Uber Performance.

So even your your sarcastic analysis is failing.

Try harder boyz.

Not really. A fully replenished Dooku was owned by Anakin in seconds.

As for their clash on "Crisis on Naboo", Dooku was using his full force powers on Anakin, and still got dropped. Barriss used one force push on Anakin, while the rest was her pure saber skills that gave Anakin a struggle.

Holding back is not the issue.
Anakin like other characters doesn't need to hold back, if he doesn't want to kill. He just needs to trust the Force. No matter how hard and lethally he attacks her, if she failed to block, he would anticipate it and cause a shin wound instead of killing blow. Also, he doesn't need to hold back in trying to disarm her. If Anakin was trully superior to her in sabers, he would do to her what Luke did to Valin Horn:
"That's enough." Luke advanced, activating his own lightsaber. Valin raised his in a preliminary block. Luke struck, twitching his blade out of the most obvious line of attack, and the blade sheared the hilt of Valin's weapon in two, not harming him.

Valin's blade switched off as the weapon's lower half dropped into the darkened urban chasm below. Valin took a step back, the last step he could afford before dropping off the front of the speeder, but Luke's advance was near instantaneous. The Grand Master slammed the butt of his own weapon into Valin's temple".

There is nothing wrong with her being exceptionally strong combatant simply because she has no feats. Windu had no feats either before he took down Sidious.

Also, the reason why Anakin put up better fight against Dooku than her is quite simple. Anakin in both cases was far more angry at Dooku, which made him much stronger than usual.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Dooku's Saber Performance against Skywalker was well beyond Bariss's. In "Crisis on Naboo" Anakin just got the edge in Sabers with a Kick which tripped Dooku over some stairs.

But later Dooku puts a more powerful Anakin on his ass via his own Uber Kick in ROTS. And that was while fighting off Kenobi making it an even more Uber Performance.

So even your your sarcastic analysis is failing.

Try harder boyz.

Anakin put Dooku on his ass in RotS. If you're suggesting Anakin defeated him by mere circumstance, you'd be completely wrong. Anakin is clearly the superior fighter by RotS.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Anakin put Dooku on his ass in RotS. If you're suggesting Anakin defeated him by mere circumstance, you'd be completely wrong. Anakin is clearly the superior fighter by RotS.

No he's not.
1. Djem So is the perfect style to defeat Makashi. A master of Djem So will defeat a master of Makashi in pure bladework everytime.
2. Anakin has never bypassed Dooku's force defenses, Dooku on the other hand has time and time again proved to be Dooku's superior.

Dooku>Anakin in all out.

If the script, official website, and supplementary material are to be believed, Anakin's defeat of Dooku was the product of superior skill. But the execution of that certainly leaves something to be desired.

Arhael
There is nothing wrong with her being exceptionally strong combatant simply because she has no feats. Windu had no feats either before he took down Sidious.

Yeah, that's not the issue at all.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
1. Djem So is the perfect style to defeat Makashi. A master of Djem So will defeat a master of Makashi in pure bladework everytime.

You are wrong. The winner depends on skill and capabilities. Nowhere Djem So is stated to be superior to Makashi.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No he's not.
1. Djem So is the perfect style to defeat Makashi. A master of Djem So will defeat a master of Makashi in pure bladework everytime.

Not true. Djem So might be suited to defeat Makashi, but the outcome of a duel between a Makashi user and a Djem So user does not solely depend on each individuals' lightsaber form. It depends on which combatant is the better swordsman. Period. If you're a Makashi user but you are the more skilled fighter in terms of bladework, then you will win against a Djem So user. You might struggle against a form that is designed to counter your own, but in the end you're going to win simply because you are superior.

It is wrong to assume that one style will always defeat the other without taking into account the individual prowess and skill of each combatant, and it is certainly false and unfair to credit Skywalker's definite victory over Dooku only to his use of Djem So. He defeated him because he had become the superior fighter, not because he utilized Djem So.

Unless I'm just misunderstanding your argument.

2. Anakin has never bypassed Dooku's force defenses, Dooku on the other hand has time and time again proved to be Dooku's superior.

Dooku>Anakin in all out.

You just said that 'a master of Djem So will defeat a master of Makashi in pure bladework everytime'. Yet you say Anakin has never bypassed Dooku's defenses...

And these parts of the novelization say the opposite:

1. "The first overhand chop of Skywalker's blade slid off Dooku's instinctive guard. The second bent Dooku's wrist. The third flash of blue forced Dooku's scarlet blade so far to the inside that his own lightsaber scorched his shoulder, and Dooku was forced to give ground.

Dooku felt himself blanch. Where had this come from? Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength-not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing."

2. "Skywalker was all over him.

The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again.

He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.

That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker, and Dooku decided that under these rather extreme circumstances, it was at least arguably permissible for a gentleman to cheat."

3. "And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will: walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread."

So yes, yes he is the superior fighter. Anakin was clearly kicking the s*** out of Dooku.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No he's not.
1. Djem So is the perfect style to defeat Makashi. A master of Djem So will defeat a master of Makashi in pure bladework everytime.
2. Anakin has never bypassed Dooku's force defenses, Dooku on the other hand has time and time again proved to be Anakin's superior.

Dooku>Anakin in all out.

Fixed.
Anyway, I concur, though I would like to point out that Dooku was taking advantage of Djem So's lack of mobility in the novelization.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Anakin put Dooku on his ass in RotS. If you're suggesting Anakin defeated him by mere circumstance, you'd be completely wrong. Anakin is clearly the superior fighter by RotS.

Wait, what? No, I never said that. I said Dooku's Saber performance against ROTS Anakin was far greater than Barriss's Saber performance against CW Anakin.

Or have you forgotten that Dooku put Anakin on his ass first while simultaneously dealing with Kenobi?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not really. A fully replenished Dooku was owned by Anakin in seconds.

So we just ignoring the fight before Dooku replenished himself and Anakin got fully enraged?

We ignoring that Dooku did humiliate Kenobi and Skywalker together at one point?

Also you need to stop judging fights based on how long they last. It's more important that Dooku came close to defeating Anakin before he lost.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As for their clash on "Crisis on Naboo", Dooku was using his full force powers on Anakin, and still got dropped. Barriss used one force push on Anakin, while the rest was her pure saber skills that gave Anakin a struggle.

Anakin shruuged off Dooku's Force attacks. I don't see how it made much difference to the Saber fight.

And yes Barriss also used the Force. So both fights were All-Out's.

Yes, just before he regained composure and completely overwhelmed Dooku.

But I'm not suggesting Barriss is more powerful than Dooku. She's not.

Also Dooku didn't lose because Makashi is weak to Djem So. That's not even true and was only brought up as an issue when Dooku was fending off both Skywalker and Kenobi.

It wasn't an issue the whole fight. Skywalker's Power & Saber Prowess was the issue.

Didn't you read? I actually said that lightsaber forms had nothing to do with Anakin's victory over the Count. So yeah.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Didn't you read? I actually said that lightsaber forms had nothing to do with Anakin's victory over the Count. So yeah.

Wasn't directed at you. Just a general statement as that's been coming up repeatedly recently including on this thread.