Originally posted by leonheartmmThat's because Kakashi tried to fight it with a sharingan that was woefully outmatched...not dispel it.
actually, it was said to be undispellable, which means that it CANT be dispelled by chakra control. only with sasuke's sharingan was it overcome. and even kakashi who does NOT have horrendous chakra control cudnt dispell it with that technique.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
actually, it was said to be undispellable, which means that it CANT be dispelled by chakra control. only with sasuke's sharingan was it overcome. and even kakashi who does NOT have horrendous chakra control cudnt dispell it with that technique.
The case of nagato and his puppets is entirely different from a regular person. Nagato will be removing all his chakra from his puppets body. So there will be nothing for Tsukyumi to work on at all. Thats entirely different from a regular person trying to redirect his own chakra.
Originally posted by Naija boy
The case of nagato and his puppets is entirely different from a regular person. Nagato will be removing all his chakra from his puppets body. So there will be nothing for Tsukyumi to work on at all. Thats entirely different from a regular person trying to redirect his own chakra.
Removing chakra sounds good only two things are wrong with this Tsukiyomi happens less than a second so Nagato wouldnt be able to disconect chakra in time. Also you forget that these are dead bodies and Pein is fighting a group exceptional ninja. Once nagato releases that chakra the bodies would be like abandoned toys they wouldnt be able to move or do anything someone like oro or any of the others would notice this and then destroy the bodies.
Originally posted by Naija boy
The case of nagato and his puppets is entirely different from a regular person. Nagato will be removing all his chakra from his puppets body. So there will be nothing for Tsukyumi to work on at all. Thats entirely different from a regular person trying to redirect his own chakra.
then howcome they were unable to escape jiraya's genjutsu? just saying, the level of genjutsu matters a LOT when ur trying to escape from it. again, im not saying that itachi can win against pain, im just saying, ur reasoning for how genjutsu works is flawed.
Originally posted by yungz22
Removing chakra sounds good only two things are wrong with this Tsukiyomi happens less than a second so Nagato wouldnt be able to disconect chakra in time. Also you forget that these are dead bodies and Pein is fighting a group exceptional ninja. Once nagato releases that chakra the bodies would be like abandoned toys they wouldnt be able to move or do anything someone like oro or any of the others would notice this and then destroy the bodies.
I know that its last for such a short period. And thats why i have repeatedly ermphasized the fact that Tsukuyumi is an attack on a persons spirit etc. And would therefore be ineffective against the bodies anyways. The chakra removal would be used to counter ny other genjutsu of Itachis. And pain doesnt have to release the chakra for long. A quick removal and reinsertion will do the trick so the bodies will be in little danger from the manoevre.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
then howcome they were unable to escape jiraya's genjutsu? just saying, the level of genjutsu matters a LOT when ur trying to escape from it. again, im not saying that itachi can win against pain, im just saying, ur reasoning for how genjutsu works is flawed.
Because nagato didnt try it. In the fight against Jiraiya Pain was never in any danger and in comparison to his other fights took it pretty easy.
Originally posted by leonheartmm😛 If you stop it before it starts IT won't work. And if you know how it begins stopping it is easy. Therefore that logic would work with a normal jounin against the song. Because unlike Itachi they have to get ready to use it.
no, it means it wud only work the first time. genjutsus wud be utterly useless against any normal jounin if that logic held true.
Again we go back to the databook statement of Tsukiyomi:
"Within the Sharingan's telepathic and hypnotical powers, the greatest genjutsu was created out of hypnosis: Tsukuyomi. On this earth, people are subject to things like time, gravity and air, and the people who can maximize their abilities are the ones who decide who is the winner and loser. However, Tsukuyomi gives the user the ability to drag his opponent to an imaginary world that the user builds, and restricts him in it.
Common sense does not apply in this imaginary world like it does in the real world. There is no possibilty of dispelling this genjutsu. People caught in this genjutsu do not know when this imaginary world will end, and the user controls everything. He shows them the punishment of hell. It makes the person caught in it crazy. Even if you are strong enough to break rocks, or fast as lightning, it matters not before this technique....that's why this technique is feared."
This is one of the things that seperates Tsukiyomi from regular genjutsu. In all genjutsu, they all need to make contact, one way or another to affect their opponent in genjutsu, like how frogsong required the waves to reach the ear, etc. All tsukiyomi needs is is the sharingan hypnosis, then it uses its 'telepathic powers' as its stated in the databook.
^That doesnt indicate anything. It just refers to the telepathic and hypnotic effects of the sharingan. It in no way mentions that it has a fundamentally different method of functionality. The sharigan hypnosis is still put into effect by contact between the two beings physical eyes and the subsequent chakra extension.
Originally posted by yungz22
Do you se what naruto is doing to God realm what makes you all think the team cant do the same. everyone in the team except for probably Deidar have the foost speed to reach him in 5 seconds or less.
If Naruto vs Godrealm had happened in a forum fight. Naruto would have died a long time ago. God realm has had numerous chances to kill him and instead decided to delay it and give long speeches. On the forum the fight would not go anything like that as Godrealm would be fighting to the best of his abilities and the mandatory PIS that is associated with almost all villains would be absent.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, it means it wud only work the first time. genjutsus wud be utterly useless against any normal jounin if that logic held true.
Stopping a genjutsu user from performing a genjutsu is always an effective way of preventing it regardless of ur rank. Its the actual stopping thats difficult. Pain simply stopped him before Pa could use the genjutsu
only tsukiyomi{minus the chakra thing, that was never positively mentioned} and again, it was never said to be limited to eye contact.
Tsukuyumi is limited to eyecontact. It requires contact between the character sphysical eyes. further all genjutsu work via chakra extension and nothing shown has indicated otherwise.
^and ur basing that on WHAT exactly? tsukiyomi's limitations have never been seen. going by itachi's other doujutsu and genjutsu, we can see that he doesnt need eye contact at ALL.
and again, if all genjutsu worked by chakra extension, then any jounin with chakra controlling abilities cud effetively null ANY genjutsu.
also, ive already mentioned multiple instances of alternate explanations for genjutsu from the manga.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
^and ur basing that on WHAT exactly? tsukiyomi's limitations have never been seen. going by itachi's other doujutsu and genjutsu, we can see that he doesnt need eye contact at ALL.and again, if all genjutsu worked by chakra extension, then any jounin with chakra controlling abilities cud effetively null ANY genjutsu.
also, ive already mentioned multiple instances of alternate explanations for genjutsu from the manga.
Please when has itachi ever performed Tsukuyumi WITHOUT eye contact? Never. Why do u think when he put tsukuyumi on genin sasuke he forced him to open his eyes? or kakashi told kurenai and asuma not to look into his eyes? And Of course Itachi doesnt need eyecontact with his other genjutsu, since its not a prerequisite for all genjutsu. It is however a prerequisite for Tsukuyumi.end of story
And no that logic is faulty. reaking out of genjutsu is a battle between the controller and the person being controlled. Therefore the person being controlled has to forcefully take control of his own chakra in order to counter his opponents control. Now as the genjutsu gets more advanced, this becomes more difficult. So that logic does not fly at all
And please show me the explanation of genjutsu in the manga that contradicts the ones i showed.
Originally posted by Naija boy
^That doesnt indicate anything. It just refers to the telepathic and hypnotic effects of the sharingan. It in no way mentions that it has a fundamentally different method of functionality. The sharigan hypnosis is still put into effect by contact between the two beings physical eyes and the subsequent chakra extension.
You're claiming Itachi's tsukiyomi which is obviously different from other jutsus, works the same as regular genjutsus by extending the chakra right? I say he needs to hypnotize his opponent for it to work. However, i have the databook statement to back me up, also the fact that kurenai and asuma had to close their eyes to avoid being hypnotized by itachi sharingan. So what's your explanation on why he couldn't just "extend his chakra" into them, even if their eyes are closed?