Pain vs Akatsuki and the Sannin

Originally posted by Terryc250
Because no other jutsus have telepathic powers? That is one of Sharingan special powers, and its hypnotic abilities. The statement telepathic and hypnotic powers already seperates it from regular jutsus.

Its effect is more advanced from regular genjutsu but that in NO WAY means that it is excluded from the fundamental ways in which genjutsu operates. that is just entirely baseless. One of Pains bodies uses hypnotic genjutsu it DOESNT suddenly indicate that at the basic level his genjutsu operates in a different way. Not even close

You're claiming Itachi's tsukiyomi which is obviously different from other jutsus, works the same as regular genjutsus by extending the chakra right? I say he needs to hypnotize his opponent for it to work. However, i have the databook statement to back me up, also the fact that kurenai and asuma had to close their eyes to avoid being hypnotized by itachi sharingan. So what's your explanation on why he couldn't just "extend his chakra" into them, even if their eyes are closed?

Im claiming that Tsukuyumi, which is genjutsu allbeit a more powerful one operates in the same manner as ALL genjutsus have been stated to operate. You dont even have one shred of evidence to show otherwise. You say he needs to hypnotize his opponent for it to work and i dont disagree with that, but it still doesnt change the fact that that hypnosis or hatever is still ONLY possible via chakra extension. The two are not mutually exclusive. Operating through hypnosis does not somehow remove the need for chakra extension. Looking into itachis eyes is the method through which the chakra is extended and the genjutsu is intiated. Ur argument is akin to saying that because the sage frogs had to sing in order to initiate their genjutsu they didnt have to extend their chakra. Meanwhile its clear that singing was the method through which the chakra was extended for that particular genjutsus and through which it was thus initiated.

Asuma and Kurenai having to close their eyes to avoid tsukuyumi doesnt come even close to proving anything at all. The method of chakra extension for Tsukuyumi is through the contact with itachis eyes, the same way in which the method of chakra extension for jiraiyas genjutsu is through the song, handseals are the method of extension for genjutsu that use them,etc.

Originally posted by Naija boy
If Naruto vs Godrealm had happened in a forum fight. Naruto would have died a long time ago. God realm has had numerous chances to kill him and instead decided to delay it and give long speeches. On the forum the fight would not go anything like that as Godrealm would be fighting to the best of his abilities and the mandatory PIS that is associated with almost all villains would be absent.

my point is that God realms weakness can be easily exploited as shown by Kakashi and naruto. what makes you think the team cant do the same if not better seeing as how most of these ninja are stronger than naruto and kakashi

Originally posted by yungz22
my point is that God realms weakness can be easily exploited as shown by Kakashi and naruto. what makes you think the team cant do the same if not better seeing as how most of these ninja are stronger than naruto and kakashi

There is no valid "point" in that line of argument. Pains weakness was only exploited by naruto because Pain had bypassed the numerous opportunities he had to kill him and hence is now facing naruto at less than full potential. The same with Kakashi who pain couldve have also easily killed from the start but didnt because he needed information. Those two instances have no bearing here where pain will be using his powers to the fullest. A fairly big shinra tensei will take out most of the team. Those who arent taken out insttantly certainly wont be in any shape to attack Pain again in five seconds so no weakness is going to be exploited. Not to mention Pain can easily stay out of range of most of their attacks. Further no one on the team is more powerful than sage naruto let alone most of them, not that it even matters though.

Pein is not going to use a big shinra tensei in the beginning of the fight anyway because of the danger he might put himself in. If anythib if god realm uses the big tenei itll help the team beccause the bigger the blast the longer the recharge.

And actually god realm alone never defeated naruto it was always another BODY there to help him fight naruto same for kakashi. GOD REALMS WEAKNESS IS 1 ON 1 BECAUSE OF HIS INTERVALS.

another weakness of peins is that his bodies have to use their echniques one at a time they cant all do thei powers at once which is another bad thing if your fighting a team of s class ninja

Originally posted by yungz22
Pein is not going to use a big shinra tensei in the beginning of the fight anyway because of the danger he might put himself in. If anythib if god realm uses the big tenei itll help the team beccause the bigger the blast the longer the recharge.

And actually god realm alone never defeated naruto it was always another BODY there to help him fight naruto same for kakashi. GOD REALMS WEAKNESS IS 1 ON 1 BECAUSE OF HIS INTERVALS.

another weakness of peins is that his bodies have to use their echniques one at a time they cant all do thei powers at once which is another bad thing if your fighting a team of s class ninja

How will he put himself in danger? He can direct shinra tensei so it wont affect him at all. the shinra tensei he will use doesnt need to be even close to the size of the one that wrecked konoha and it will still cover the whole battlefield. the recharge time onl takes long when nagato concentrates all his chakra in Godrealm and uses a superhuge shinra tensei like the one he used on konoha. That wont be happening here

Also why do u keep ignoring what i have stated repeatedly? God realm fought naruto and kakashi in that manner BECAUSE at the time he didnt want to kill them. IF so he could have killed either narutoor kakshi with a single shinra tensei. NO CHANCE TO EXPLOIT ANY INTERVALS BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE DEAD. that is the appraoch Pain will be taking here. Further Pain can simply fly up which would put him out of range of a majority of their attacks. Pain can use shinra tensei to kill most of the opposing team in one go and even those that arent dead will be hurt way to badly to attack him within five seconds even if he is on the ground. Opportunities to exploit his intervals only arise if he lets them and in this scenario he wont.end of story.

Please show me where it was stated that the bodies have to use their abilities one at a time. The bodies were all fighting at different points in konoha at the same time. Not that the other bodies even matter much here since its Godrealm that will do the major damage.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Its effect is more advanced from regular genjutsu but that in NO WAY means that it is excluded from the fundamental ways in which genjutsu operates. that is just entirely baseless. One of Pains bodies uses hypnotic genjutsu it DOESNT suddenly indicate that at the basic level his genjutsu operates in a different way. Not even close

Im claiming that Tsukuyumi, which is genjutsu allbeit a more powerful one operates in the same manner as ALL genjutsus have been stated to operate. You dont even have one shred of evidence to show otherwise. You say he needs to hypnotize his opponent for it to work and i dont disagree with that, but it still doesnt change the fact that that hypnosis or hatever is still ONLY possible via chakra extension. The two are not mutually exclusive. Operating through hypnosis does not somehow remove the need for chakra extension. Looking into itachis eyes is the method through which the chakra is extended and the genjutsu is intiated. Ur argument is akin to saying that because the sage frogs had to sing in order to initiate their genjutsu they didnt have to extend their chakra. Meanwhile its clear that singing was the method through which the chakra was extended for that particular genjutsus and through which it was thus initiated.

Asuma and Kurenai having to close their eyes to avoid tsukuyumi doesnt come even close to proving anything at all. The method of chakra extension for Tsukuyumi is through the contact with itachis eyes, the same way in which the method of chakra extension for jiraiyas genjutsu is through the song, handseals are the method of extension for genjutsu that use them,etc.

Umm the statement says otherwise? No other genjutsu works telepathically with hypnotic powers. So the burden of proof is on you. Tsukiyomi is different from other genjutsus, everyone knows that so I don't know why you keep trying to label it as exactly like a regular genjutsu.

Asuma and Kurenai had to close their eyes to avoid being hypnotized, not to avoid Itachi "chakra being extended" into them. There is always a physical contact when Genjutsu is casted on the user, whether it be sound waves or another form. Tsukiyomi doesn't have any contact at all.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Umm the statement says otherwise? No other genjutsu works telepathically with hypnotic powers or that because of thoe hypnotic powers . So the burden of proof is on you. Tsukiyomi is different from other genjutsus, everyone knows that so I don't know why you keep trying to label it as exactly like a regular genjutsu.

Asuma and Kurenai had to close their eyes to avoid being hypnotized, not to avoid Itachi "chakra being extended" into them. There is always a physical contact when Genjutsu is casted on the user, whether it be sound waves or another form. Tsukiyomi doesn't have any contact at all.

lol. How is the burden of proof on me when all uve done is make things up? Please show me where it was said that no other genjutsu has hypnotic powers or that because of those hypnotic powers it functions fundamentally diffrently from other genjutsus. It said that nowhere. You have not one shred of evidence showing that Tsukuyumi works differently from other genjutsus. We know its effects are more powerful and advanced but NOWHERE has it been shown that Tsukuyumi doesnt make use of chakra extension as ALL genjutsus do.

Actually Itachis "hypnosis" still makes use of chakra extension as ALL genjutsus do. Where did u get that there is "always a physical contact" with genjutsus? What of Itachis genjutsu where he just points at u? or the genjutsus that use handseals? What are u even talking about? ridiculous.

Originally posted by Naija boy
How will he put himself in danger? He can direct shinra tensei so it wont affect him at all. the shinra tensei he will use doesnt need to be even close to the size of the one that wrecked konoha and it will still cover the whole battlefield. the recharge time onl takes long when nagato concentrates all his chakra in Godrealm and uses a superhuge shinra tensei like the one he used on konoha. That wont be happening here

Also why do u keep ignoring what i have stated repeatedly? God realm fought naruto and kakashi in that manner BECAUSE at the time he didnt want to kill them. IF so he could have killed either narutoor kakshi with a single shinra tensei. NO CHANCE TO EXPLOIT ANY INTERVALS BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE DEAD. that is the appraoch Pain will be taking here. Further Pain can simply fly up which would put him out of range of a majority of their attacks. Pain can use shinra tensei to kill most of the opposing team in one go and even those that arent dead will be hurt way to badly to attack him within five seconds even if he is on the ground. Opportunities to exploit his intervals only arise if he lets them and in this scenario he wont.end of story.

Please show me where it was stated that the bodies have to use their abilities one at a time. The bodies were all fighting at different points in konoha at the same time. Not that the other bodies even matter much here since its Godrealm that will do the major damage.

During the Jiraiya fight it was stated that they use each others powers at once. Also Katsyu (the slug) said that the bigger the tensei the longer the charge time. Putting him in danger every time he uses one. Also you keep talking about flying you forget that deidara, sasori and Kakuzu have the abilitie to reach him as well as him being shot down by a pheonix flower jutsu from itachi or a water shark from kisame.

Originally posted by yungz22
During the Jiraiya fight it was stated that they use each others powers at once. Also Katsyu (the slug) said that the bigger the tensei the longer the charge time. Putting him in danger every time he uses one. Also you keep talking about flying you forget that deidara, sasori and Kakuzu have the abilitie to reach him as well as him being shot down by a pheonix flower jutsu from itachi or a water shark from kisame.

When in the Jiraiya fight id he say while one was using their powers the rest couldnt I remember seeing no such thing. Also Pain used a shinra tensei that was powerful enough to KO the huge Sage frogs at the same time and the five second interval did not increase. Clearly that one was far more powerful than the one he used against chouji or kakashi. The only time the interval increases is when he concentrates all his chakra into a only Godrealm and uses a really huge attack. No need for that here. Him flying allows him to stay out of range for more than the five seconds needed to recharge. After that it doesnt matter as the attacks can be repelled. Further the like of Deidara,Sasori and itachi are themselves likely to get oneshotted by shinra tensei. And those that arent oneshotted wont recover in time to launch another meaninful attack before the five second interval is over.

Originally posted by Naija boy
When in the Jiraiya fight id he say while one was using their powers the rest couldnt I remember seeing no such thing. Also Pain used a shinra tensei that was powerful enough to KO the huge Sage frogs at the same time and the five second interval did not increase. Clearly that one was far more powerful than the one he used against chouji or kakashi. The only time the interval increases is when he concentrates all his chakra into a only Godrealm and uses a really huge attack. No need for that here. Him flying allows him to stay out of range for more than the five seconds needed to recharge. After that it doesnt matter as the attacks can be repelled. Further the like of Deidara,Sasori and itachi are themselves likely to get oneshotted by shinra tensei. And those that arent oneshotted wont recover in time to launch another meaninful attack before the five second interval is over.

NOTICE HOW IT WAS A WHILE BEFORE HE USED GOD REALM HISTECHNIQUE AGAIN

Originally posted by yungz22
NOTICE HOW IT WAS A WHILE BEFORE HE USED GOD REALM HISTECHNIQUE AGAIN

Huh?

If this was Ridoku Sennin (Sage of the Six Paths) then he might've stood a chance. That's assuming that he created the moon and knew all jutsu.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Huh?

I was referring to the tensei god realm used on the frongs notice that it was a few panels before he did bansho tennin on naruto

Originally posted by yungz22
I was referring to the tensei god realm used on the frongs notice that it was a few panels before he did bansho tennin on naruto

During that battle there were numerous times in which Pain used shinra tensei/Bansho tenin a few pages apart. It doesnt account for an increase in the interval. Fact is the only time the interval increased was when Nagato focused his chakra into Godrealm and in doing so reduced his lifespan.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol. How is the burden of proof on me when all uve done is make things up? Please show me where it was said that no other genjutsu has hypnotic powers or that because of those hypnotic powers it functions fundamentally diffrently from other genjutsus. It said that nowhere. You have not one shred of evidence showing that Tsukuyumi works differently from other genjutsus. We know its effects are more powerful and advanced but NOWHERE has it been shown that Tsukuyumi doesnt make use of chakra extension as ALL genjutsus do.

Actually Itachis "hypnosis" still makes use of chakra extension as ALL genjutsus do. Where did u get that there is "always a physical contact" with genjutsus? What of Itachis genjutsu where he just points at u? or the genjutsus that use handseals? What are u even talking about? ridiculous.

Sharingan's telepathic and hypnotical powers, the greatest genjutsu was created out of hypnosis: Tsukiyomi

Sharingan has TELEPATHIC and HYPNOTIC powers. The Genjutsu is created out of sharingans telepathic and hypnotic powers. Now show me a statement saying other genjutsus are like that?

I just told you how Tsukiyomi works. Quote from databook, that's real evidence.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Make things up? Did you not see the quote from the databook?

Sharingan's telepathic and hypnotical powers, [b]the greatest genjutsu was created out of hypnosis: Tsukiyomi

Sharingan has TELEPATHIC and HYPNOTIC powers. The Genjutsu is created out of sharingans telepathic and hypnotic powers. Now show me a statement saying other genjutsus are like that?

I just told you how Tsukiyomi works. Quote from databook, that's real evidence. [/B]

The quote from the databook didnt show anything. Tsukuyumi is still labelled Genjutsu and therefore until any clear indication is given to prove otherwise(such as a statement that claims that Tsukuyumi does not make use of the basic chakra extension and control which qualify it to be called genjutsu) we know that it functions fundamentally the same as ALL genjutsus and that is through chakra extension and control. Your highlighting the sharingans telepathic and hypnotic powers doesnt help ur case since regardless of that we know it is genjutsu and hence must use chakra extension and control. If u had a statement explaining that Tsukuyumi wasnt a genjutsu but rather was pure telepathy or Hypnotism then ud have a case. But even the quote u r posting shoots down ur own argumentbecause of the continuous description of Tsukuyumi as genjutsu.

^ur stubborn and wont admit ur wrong.

I mean yeah pein is strong but he is not beating the akatsuki their are too many ninja with crazy speed and power same with the sannin

And not one of them could survive a big Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei. Pein has two moves that can one-shot just about everybody on the other side at once. While Chibaku Tensei would be near impossible to get off in the middle of a large group against him of this level of ninja the Shinra Tensei would be extremely easy as he doesn't need the Konoha buster to do so.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^ur stubborn and wont admit ur wrong.

lol.Actually im not the stubborn one. I have countered ur points(numerous people) at evry turn. Those in support of the Akatsuki have changed stances numerous times trying numerous angles which have all been countered. Now after all else woefully failed it has devolved into blanket claims of "Nuh uh! Pain cant beat them they are to powerful".