@ Xan, his pic shows polished granite for commercial use. Infact, looking closer shows it's processed from the visible cross section, lol. It's barely even legit granite.
@Fing, can I see some evidence of those? (outside AC.) Cause I can't imagine him losing to Cloud so often with a handy at will time stop so readily available. Read: LolIdoubtit,getproofplx.
Sorry, meant Wall
Safer Sephiroth possesses the spell, Wall, which cats both Barrier and MBarrier, which protect itself from Magic and Physical attacks.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Materia
But regardless, without AC, I think Sephiroth would probably get his ass kicked.
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Sephiroth doesn't even need to speedblitz Link, as he could simply hold him still with telekinesis and carve him to bits at his leisure. Link gets rape stomped.And bravo for going against Peach's tyranny and calling out socky and pals, too. I knew it wasn't just me and ArtificialGlory who saw through this tangled web of dirty laundry.
Tyranny? You don't get it, do you. There are rules. You follow them. When you are told to stop doing something, you do it. If you don't, you get warned or banned.
I already warned you once for this. Another offense is going to be a ban.
Originally posted by XanatosForeverAnd that's why I felt the need to post that. Cuz you felt the need to rudely spew bullshit my way. When I wasn't even talkin to you.
Very mature, kid. By posting in this thread, you're making this idiocy my business, because you're derailing the damn topic. Learn to follow the rules, junior.
After the mod told me not to start, I said I wouldn't. Heh, your the junior member, not me. Know your place lil' guy.
Originally posted by I am who I am
And that's why I felt the need to post that. Cuz you felt the need to rudely spew bullshit my way. When I wasn't even talkin to you.After the mod told me not to start, I said I wouldn't. Heh, your the junior member, not me. Know your place lil' guy.
Does Link have something that can counteract Wall? What's the durability of it?
Originally posted by Nemesis X
You cannot in any way deny the fact that Link looks gay with that skirt.
There are some of us zelda fans that thinks link is a gay, mute, nazi and so on that dont make him less awesome as a hero.
I dont know anything about sephiroth but since link can win against for example King of Evil(could it be more evil) he could probably win against sephiroth too.
link is not slow has tremendous strength, stupid durability, amazing reactions and a mirror sheild, now when I think about it, tell me one thing he dont have.
Originally posted by I am who I am
I did already. Instead of keepin' this mess up wit me, why don't you do the same.
The point of a debate is continue the argument for your side. This, along with a large number of the posts you have in this thread, don't do that. So again, please post something relevant to the topic.
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me about the Wall spell. Then again, maybe I should just look at the link provided. Yeah, I think I'll do that.
Edit: Okay, I looked at it. It still doesn't help establish the limit of durability it awards. Someone mind helping me figure this out?
Originally posted by Terryc250
Now this power that is atleast as powerful as Meteor, which is planet scale threatening. Sephiroth stopped this with his willpower/telekineses, at the same time he battled the FF7 party and at one point before the battle lifted all 8 members in the air while torturing them.The fact that he infected the lifestream causing it to become the Negative Lifestream (the lifestream was capable of disintegrating Meteor) in the FF7 game it was stated the lifestream was a source of power, life, energy, magic. With the negative lifestream Sephiroth was capable of creating the 3 remnants (power of life) the 3 remnants were capable of using the negative lifestream as magic (using the shadow creeps)
Sephiroth has complete control over the negative lifestream, and was able to cover the entire skies of midgar with just a gesture. If he wanted, he could've just summoned the NL right on Cloud and killed him there.
Cool so this is the only thing I can take from your text of abilities that Sephiroth is capable of thus far.
Advent Children doesn't count in this, sorry mate. Not PSI with FFVII. As much as you'd like it to be and may be able to connect it to Advent Children, the fact remains the rules state things must stay in the realm of what the video game allows it. Thus, Game Versus Forum, not Game originating character into everything they've ever appeared in from Anime, movies, or manga/comics Vs.
I don't see how Will Power is really a factor, everyone has will power, you and myself. What makes his so much greater? Where is this definitive proof that his will to live out ranks another person in any situation where their life is on the line. Everyone is capable of that, even a Hylian like Link who has proved in the face of ominous threats, including the dark Lord, immortal God, Ganondorf himself that he doesn't back down.
Link's Courage = Sephiroth's 'will power'
As for Telekinesis now...I ask you this, is it actually the mental ability to form physical force with mental thought or is Sephiroth a pure blooded mage that doesn't require the incantations of spells to perform such levitation acts?
I think the 2nd would be more likely, just like Zelda and Ganondorf. Telekinesis and pure blood mage spells have a definitive, even though relative, look and use to them.
And BT brought up before in another thread, one is able to Teleport out of Telekinesis holds and that is true. Link can teleport. Link also has the 'Reflect' spell which brings him immunities to Physical and Magical attacks alike.
So now that I have debunked what seems to Sephiroth's greatest abilities on the table thus far and how Link can match them. Cloud himself is able to slash away at Sephiroth, what makes you think Link wouldn't be able to as well after even possessing more feats and powers at hand then Cloud.
side note: I don't know enough about the lifestream thing but being able to and doing so are two different things. Constnatly it is brought up that Sephiroth COULD of beaten Cloud IF HE WANTED to and his over cockyness was his own demise. What sort of bs is that? last I checked, being over confident in most situations may get you caught off guard, sucker punched or get the wind knocked out of you, but if you were strong enough to win in the first place then the result will be as thus. You will win. So...it's very retarded to say Cloud didn't elminate Sephiroth, when he clearly did, regardless of what Sephiroth may or may not have done and tried to do mind games, he still loss. So he's beatable by some one like Cloud and Cloud isn't merely as capable of what Link has done and can do.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The rock almost HAS to be black granite, for one, granite in general is a common building material because it's density lends it great strutural strength. For two, the only other rocks to share it's colour or pattern are generally brittle volcanic rocks that A, cannot be rendered into such a shape, and B, have little structural strength. Lastly that picture of yours shows /polished/ intentionally given a shine for use as counter tops, head stones, ect. To take variables into account those calculations are extremely conservative, IE, any variable was erred on the side of lighter to not overhype Link, so yeah, he really is that strong.
Another point is Seph's TK means little in this fight because Link's plot shielding sword prevents that kind of silliness, otherwise Ganondorf would have done that exact thing to him a whole bunch of games ago. [Ganon has demonstrated extremely high TK capability, magical or otherwise it's rediculously strong.] The sword is stated as something no evil can touch, and Seph is unquestionably the bad guy in this fight. Link is designed to fight people like Seph, hence his nifty sword and such.
So Link is stronger than Seph as well as TK proof. Speed is a point I can argue as well, as Link has been shown to capably dodge super sonic whip cracks with relative ease as a mere child, it's even debated whether or not he had his piece of the triforce during this. [And he survived the destruction of the moon at ground zero, fell to earth and was fine] I'd like to see a non-AC speed feat for Seph. [/B]
Originally posted by Terryc250
Unfortunately "plot" plays no role in this debate so that automatically negates that. Link can be TK'd unless he actually has some defense for it, plot does not help him here.
Terry, if plot plays no role in these debates, then what gives Sephiroth the right to rely on the Negative Lifestream? Or any of his post-Crisis Core abilities (this assumption is from the fact that Crisis Core is a prequel and thus Sephiroth will not have nearly as much power)? It makes no sense to debunk certain plot aspects, you see? Link has been through enough games so far to make it more than just PIS, as well.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Show me Link dodging this "super sonic whip" please.
That evidence is among the list of Link's feats I displayed in the last page. Please go and review the post.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Sephiroth has instant teleportation. Along with super speed, also, if you look at any Ultimate Wil's other threads/posts he refers to Sephiroth the character and does not limit him to just to a specific time, so i'm assuming this thread is no different, meaning it is Sephiroth before he died in AC, which is probably where he showed his fastest movement speed.
Teleportation is not a win-all function, and with the amount of combat experience Link has, his reaction time would be fast enough to deal with the teleportation and speed. That is my belief.
Originally posted by Voyeur
Cool so this is the only thing I can take from your text of abilities that Sephiroth is capable of thus far.Advent Children doesn't count in this, sorry mate. Not PSI with FFVII. As much as you'd like it to be and may be able to connect it to Advent Children, the fact remains the rules state things must stay in the realm of what the video game allows it. Thus, Game Versus Forum, not Game originating character into everything they've ever appeared in from Anime, movies, or manga/comics Vs.
I don't see how Will Power is really a factor, everyone has will power, you and myself. What makes his so much greater? Where is this definitive proof that his will to live out ranks another person in any situation where their life is on the line. Everyone is capable of that, even a Hylian like Link who has proved in the face of ominous threats, including the dark Lord, immortal God, Ganondorf himself that he doesn't back down.Link's Courage = Sephiroth's 'will power'
As for Telekinesis now...I ask you this, is it actually the mental ability to form physical force with mental thought or is Sephiroth a pure blooded mage that doesn't require the incantations of spells to perform such levitation acts?
And BT brought up before in another thread, one is able to Teleport out of Telekinesis holds and that is true. Link can teleport. Link also has the 'Reflect' spell which brings him immunities to Physical and Magical attacks alike.
Show me Link instantly teleporting as he pleases, anywhere and whenever he wants
So now that I have debunked what seems to Sephiroth's greatest abilities on the table thus far and how Link can match them. Cloud himself is able to slash away at Sephiroth, what makes you think Link wouldn't be able to as well after even possessing more feats and powers at hand then Cloud.side note: I don't know enough about the lifestream thing but being able to and doing so are two different things. Constnatly it is brought up that Sephiroth COULD of beaten Cloud IF HE WANTED to and his over cockyness was his own demise. What sort of bs is that? last I checked, being over confident in most situations may get you caught off guard, sucker punched or get the wind knocked out of you, but if you were strong enough to win in the first place then the result will be as thus. You will win. So...it's very retarded to say Cloud didn't elminate Sephiroth, when he clearly did, regardless of what Sephiroth may or may not have done and tried to do mind games, he still loss. So he's beatable by some one like Cloud and Cloud isn't merely as capable of what Link has done and can do. [/B]
The lifestream is basically the essence of everything in FF7, its the source of everything, Life, Magic, Energy, Power. The lifestream was capable of disintegrating Meteor which thretened the planet. Sephiroth infected the lifestream when he finally merged with the lifestream at the end of FF7, scattering countless jenova cells and he began to take over.
It's fact that Sephiroth > Cloud, unless you want to deny the creators words themselves.
Cloud isn't even one of the top 5 character in FF7, there are characters that would literally beat Cloud in mere seconds in FF7. Character that could lay waste to the planet. Sephiroth was stated NUMEROUS times by the creators to be the supreme character in FF7, the most powerful.
The only thing Cloud had going for him was PIS, the creators had to limit Sephiroth so that Cloud was able to beat him. They gave Cloud basically a plot device move to take Sephiroth out, Sephiroth was toying with him and still could've killed him easily if he pleased, until the Omnislash plot device kicked in, which is basically some kind of non-physical attack that simply kills the opponent.
However, Plot induced Stupidity plays no role in here.
Originally posted by XanatosForever Terry, if plot plays no role in these debates, then what gives Sephiroth the right to rely on the Negative Lifestream? Or any of his post-Crisis Core abilities (this assumption is from the fact that Crisis Core is a prequel and thus Sephiroth will not have nearly as much power)? It makes no sense to debunk certain plot aspects, you see? Link has been through enough games so far to make it more than just PIS, as well.
That evidence is among the list of Link's feats I displayed in the last page. Please go and review the post.
Teleportation is not a win-all function, and with the amount of combat experience Link has, his reaction time would be fast enough to deal with the teleportation and speed. That is my belief. [/B]
Even if Link can escape Sephiroths will, I don't see him being able to dodge the NL, which covered a portion of the planet instantly.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Black Granite looks absolutely nothing like that when viewed at a distance, the only similarities it has is their dark colors.Unfortunately "plot" plays no role in this debate so that automatically negates that. Link can be TK'd unless he actually has some defense for it, plot does not help him here.
Show me Link dodging this "super sonic whip" please. Sephiroth has instant teleportation. Along with super speed, also, if you look at any Ultimate Wil's other threads/posts he refers to Sephiroth the character and does not limit him to just to a specific time, so i'm assuming this thread is no different, meaning it is Sephiroth before he died in AC, which is probably where he showed his fastest movement speed.
1 Negative, your photo shows processed, polished, barely legit granite, and the pattern on the rock is quite similiar, just larger, which is to be expected in 1998 era graphics.
2 Lol. No. Master Sword = in his possession, and therefore active. It's used as a plot sheild but that doesn't make it less valid. It protects Link from curses, TK, and such, basicly forcing his opponents to dal with him physicly, and it takes a real champ to take Link on physicly.
3 Majora's Mask. and AC = irrelevant unless you're giving us a composite Link in which case this is spite because Seph cannot possibly win, so pick one =]
Originally posted by Terryc250
I meant plot induced stupidity, things that only happen for plot reasons, like Sephiroth basically letting himself be killed by Cloud just so the plot can continue. Unless it was stated that Links shield actually negates telekinesis, we cannot assume Link is somehow immune to it for no reason.
I thought we were talking about the Master Sword, not the shield. The Master Sword is able to negates direct, non-physical actions against Link, which is why Ganondorf must always engage him in melee combat.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Show me the statement, and show me the video.
No offense, but is it really so hard to go back one page and look for it? It's been clearly titled and everything, so there should be no real obstacle keeping you from being able to view it.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Even if Link can escape Sephiroths will, I don't see him being able to dodge the NL, which covered a portion of the planet instantly.
I thought we had established that NL was a matter of bestowing immortality on Sephiroth, which is against the rules. Hell, by saying he's immortal through will power is still bringing immortality into play, which again, is against rules. The assumption is that no characters are immortal/invincible/etc. for the sake of a fighting chance.
If I misread somewhere, then I'll respectfully drop this point of argument.
Originally posted by Terryc250However, Plot induced Stupidity plays no role in here.
You keep saying that mate but you do not apply those restrictions on Sephiroth himself.
I have been being lazy and occupied with other things to really put to much effort in showing that there is a very simple Title Time line where there is one universe, one stream, in which Link is the same up until even Twilight Princess or at least Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link depending on where I'd like to break off the easily understandable and easy time paradox.
Besides the Original Poster didn't restrict Link to a title. So by all standards he's free to go by the name of "Link" and use all his weapons, items and abilities at his disposal until other wise is stated. Truth; he can only carry so many items or at least use so many, so we can restrict that to a specific button system of a game to be fair. But he honestly only needs a few to become superior.
Teleportation via Farore's Wind. Yeah in the game it is used a simple warp point at first and then upon second use you instantly are teleported to the original point. It's translation to Super Smash Bros. Melee and Super Smash Bros. Brawl through Zelda using Farore's wind shows that it may properly be used as instant cast, instant blink as normal teleporation. Even the game would suggest that when you cast it the 2nd time.
Teleporation isn't some godly ability unless you know how to apply physics into it. Other then that, Link has dealt with a Ganondorf and other enemies who are able to instant port simultaneously.
FYI: you really should probably just make it telekinesis because saying that he's able to do all these things because of his will power, even though that may be the case, sounds so heinous and lame it's not even funny. Basically you're saying If you, I or anyone WANTED to live, they will live. If they WANTED to break the laws of gravity and physics, THEY CAN. Will Power. Everyone has it, Link has it, Link has that PLUS the Triforce of Courage surging through him that was blessed upon him through destiny chosen by the Goddesses. Obviously they place their fate in some one who has will.
Originally posted by Voyeur
You keep saying that mate but you do not apply those restrictions on Sephiroth himself.
I have been being lazy and occupied with other things to really put to much effort in showing that there is a very simple Title Time line where there is one universe, one stream, in which Link is the same up until even Twilight Princess or at least Legend of Zelda 2: Adventure of Link depending on where I'd like to break off the easily understandable and easy time paradox.Besides the Original Poster didn't restrict Link to a title. So by all standards he's free to go by the name of "Link" and use all his weapons, items and abilities at his disposal until other wise is stated. Truth; he can only carry so many items or at least use so many, so we can restrict that to a specific button system of a game to be fair. But he honestly only needs a few to become superior.
Teleportation via Farore's Wind. Yeah in the game it is used a simple warp point at first and then upon second use you instantly are teleported to the original point. It's translation to Super Smash Bros. Melee and Super Smash Bros. Brawl through Zelda using Farore's wind shows that it may properly be used as instant cast, instant blink as normal teleporation. Even the game would suggest that when you cast it the 2nd time.
Farore's Wind works in the way it was stated to work in the actual LoZ series.
Teleporation isn't some godly ability unless you know how to apply physics into it. Other then that, Link has dealt with a Ganondorf and other enemies who are able to instant port simultaneously.
FYI: you really should probably just make it telekinesis because saying that he's able to do all these things because of his will power, even though that may be the case, sounds so heinous and lame it's not even funny. Basically you're saying If you, I or anyone WANTED to live, they will live. If they WANTED to break the laws of gravity and physics, THEY CAN. Will Power. Everyone has it, Link has it, Link has that PLUS the Triforce of Courage surging through him that was blessed upon him through destiny chosen by the Goddesses. Obviously they place their fate in some one who has will. [/B]
Sephiroths willpower works as TK, but its actually just willpower, the force of his will to do the impossible like defy death, stop other physical movement, torture people, etc.
Actually, it's the master sword that does it, Terryc. It stops Ganon from just laying a death curse on Link. The sword would reallly make Seph's life hard in this fight. And for the record Ganondorf>Sephiroth by a great margin, if Link's sword lets him beat Ganon Seph's screwed, Terry.
We've already established you do not get to use AC, it breaks the rules, and if you really want to use it, I'll stop debating for a single form of Link and use a composite Link Sephiroth can't even touch.
Seph has very little in the way of comparable feats next to Link outside AC, so we really win eitherway. =/