Sephiroth vs Link

Originally posted by LLLLLink
Link has plenty of durability. With those guanlets, Link could have caught that piece of building that Seph cut off and tried to drop on Cloud. Not bieng squashed sounds like durablity to me.

These are some of the problems that Sephiroth needs to deal with before he can THINK about beating Link:
Link's ability to deflect or absorb ALL energies, Weakness to the Master Sword, Link's ability to know Seph's location at all times, Link becoming unnoticable, Infinite invincibility, Link being generally more intelligent than Seph (as in the ability to avoid all manner of traps and mindgames), Link's strength advantage, His speed advantage (thanks to time control), His ability to block Meteor, Link being able to revive multiple times, ect.

Theres more where that came from, kiddies. When you finally realize that there is no way for Seph to deal with all that, maybe you will decide to ally yourselves to the side of the strongest, Link.

Now when I think about it link have to be intelligent, the zelda games is after all more or less puzzle games, puzzles needs intelligence lol.

Yeah, I'm suprised that this debate went on as long as it did. I didnt read all the pages but, did no one debunk Supernova? If not, then here you go.

There is no way that Sephiroth's Supernova attack is physical reality. Reason being is because if it was the real deal, how come he is able to destroy the planets 7 or 8 times in that battle? Once a planet is destroyed it is gone for good. Any human with any sense knows that. I must conclude that it is a mental attack, only occuring in the minds of Cloud's party. This may also go for a lot of the other magic attacks in the game, seeing how they dont destroy the planet in any way. Technology is advanced enough that they could show it in the game but they dont. Also it isnt mentioned in the storyline either.

LLLLLink, how did you debunk Supernova? You just explained how it worked.

There are no other attacks that would be able to destroy the planet, except ofcourse Meteor or Holy(Although it wouldn't).

Screampaste, I am not ignoring you, I am in the middle of writing up my rebuttal and I'll post it on Thursday (Friday in America).

Since it is nothing more than a mind game, Link can just see through it with the Mask of Truth or the Eye of Truth. Or he can use the Mirror Shield to turn his own mental attack back at him.

dur

Originally posted by Gumachi
dur

Im not gonna ask what you mean by that. :/

If fanboyism could be made into food, this thread could feed a small nation.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Wrong!

Irrelevant. 1, you refuse to post the video. 2, even if it did happen, it wasn't a result of Seph's physical force.

You still didn't read what I posted, so LOL. All of this is wrong, makes no sense and goes against canon. You can't argue with the canon to get out of how badly Sephiroth loses. Also, I never once said time contraints, and there is no statement that it's only in his arms, just that it is in his arms, which are two seperate statements. It also states that they make him stronger, and his legs can clearly support the force of throwing the stone, so you've lost this point. Did I mention this is the description on the equipment subscreen?

Wrong, lol. Once again, it's canon, and furthermore, it's enough of a feat that Sephiroth could never do it. :]
[/quote[
A feat that doesn't exist. It's hilarious how you try to avoid posting the feat all you can simply say is "wrong" haha.

[quote]
1. LOL! That is all. [by feats, and canon, Link could solo FF7.]

2. You haven't actually read anyone's posts, then.

3. Stabbed through the head by someone who isn't strong enough to break his skin? Yeah right, lol. Seph comes close enough to try and stab Link, and gets oneshotted. Game.

Also, my math is thread winning, and there's nothing you can do to argue with it. :] [/B]

Just because you say "Wrong" doesn't make it wrong. You have to give the little thing called "proof". So unless you can prove they have supersonic speed then they simply don't.

The video's are in this thread. And yes it's by physical force, swords clashing is physical force.

You said theres no more room to code it, want me to find the quote and prove you wrong?

I'm going by the canon.

Link is Link,

Yeah it does make him stronger,

only his arms though(where the GG is). Lifting requires the entire body,

like i've said many times before. Link never had the body to lift heavy things before, and only got the power with the GG.

Once again you keep talking like lifting is "your body simply support the object"

no thats incorrect,

in lifting the entire body does it legs muscles, everything.

If Link had the body to lift, he wouldn't have needed the GG.

If the GG granted his entire body, stregnth then it wouldnt have said it only granted him strength in his arms,

and it would have gave him a body physique boost,

which it did not. The GG simply grants him power in his arms to lift. Just his arms.

A feat that doesn't exist. It's hilarious how you try to avoid posting the feat all you can simply say is "wrong" haha.

Even by your fake feats he wouldn't. But real Link would get destroyed by probably low end FF7 characters.

I have, it simply doesn't exist. Make more excuses plz.

Umm Link doesn't have invulnerable skin? No matter how much you want him to, it doesnt make it true, sorry.

What math? Your math on how fast Link can throw something? If you were smart at all, you should calculate that Link would be dead in a tenth of a second.

ScreamPaste wrote on Mar 23rd, 2009 11:59 PM:
Alright, the first thing you should know, is I do alot of down-rounding in these numbers specificly so that if I screw up, I err on the pesimistic side, thus these are not exagerated fanboy numbers, at all.

Alright, we'll begin with the granite rock. [Mathed as white granite, lighter than black.]

Let me be clear, this is me being VERY conservative and working with rounded numbers. [rounded DOWN to the nearest million in the case of mass in pounds.]

If the stone Link threw in the original feat moved approx 225 metres [nice down rounded estimate] horizontally [I'm not bothering to math the high arc, screw that. If I -did- I'd get an even larger number, so this is more down-rounding.]

and 2 million pounds is 907184.739 kilos, and it was in the air approx 3 seconds, [thus moving at an easily mathed 75 m/s]

K=1/2mv^2

M= 907184.73999
V= 75

this means K [kinetic energy] = 2551457081.25 joule.

^Link is capable of generating an extremely high level of joulage with his muscles, and that is not his peak possible throw, but as his best feat, we round it down to be on the safe side.

Now that we know how much energy he can produce, roughly, we can apply that energy to a simple equasion for throwing somethign of the same density as the granite.

Now, just for purposes of being conservative, rather than put in the realisitc weight of something like his sheild, we'll put in.. 100 lbs? K. Watch.

K = 2551457081.25 joules
m = 100 pounds = 45.359237 kilograms

Thus:

velocity (v) = 10606.6017178 meter/second
velocity (v) = 3818376618.52 centimeter/hour
velocity (v) = 1060660.17178 centimeter/second
velocity (v) = 3006595762.52 foot/day
velocity (v) = 34798.5620663 foot/second
velocity (v) = 1503297881.26 inch/hour
velocity (v) = 417582.744795 inch/second
velocity (v) = 10.6066017178 kilometer/second
velocity (v) = 20617.5843505 knot
velocity (v) = 31.1683858883 mach sea level 15 C
velocity (v) = 916410388.416 meter/day
velocity (v) = 23726.2923179 mile/hour
velocity (v) = 6.59063675498 mile/second
velocity (v) = 10606601.7178 millimeter/second
velocity (v) = 3.53798150513E-05 speed of light in vacuum
velocity (v) = 11599.5206888 yard/second

emoticon___pwned

Terry, whats the logic in nitpicking issues when you cant even deal with blatant things that ensure Sephiroth's defeat?
Sephiroth is so far out of his league.

And for the record, if the Golden guantlets dont empower Link's entire body, explain to me, Terry, what is keeping Link's legs from caving in while lifting things of that magnitude?
Either you admit that the Gauntlets empower the whole body, or you admit that Link is naturally strong enough in the legs to support 1000+ tons. Dont make yourself look foolish by replying with an answer besides one of these.

Sephiroth loses awesome points because he's an idiot.

yup but even though he hadnt been that this would probably be in links favour a little bit thanks to all links gadgets and tools and items.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I think you underestimate Link's speed, tbh, he's proven to react to things that are super-sonic, like Majora's whips, and the draw time on a bow, is largely due to the resistance and comparitively weak strength of a human archer, Link would have little issue pulling one off, imho =P

First, Link wouldn't be able to pull it[the bow] any faster, especially with the golden gauntlets, seeing as he would most probably rip apart the bow if he tried. Second, I think you underestimate Sephiroths speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kGoRgxDNWI

I found this on Majora, Link seems to be having trouble keeping up with him and Majora is much much slower then Sephiroth and seems to be able to move faster then Link. (I did see that reflect of the beam which was pretty cool!)

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I played Majora's Mask all the way through about ten times. Essentially, it does slowdown time, everything dependant on time in it's gameplay mechanics was slower, people walked slower, events took longer to come about, the clock moved slower, days lasted longer. But the combat couldn't be affected by this for two reasons. 1: Extreme easy mode. It's break gameplay by making it too easy. 2: Could you imagine coding a scaling timeframe for attack animations? Nintendo are good, but that'd take months to devlope and perfect just on it's own, especially back in the N64 days.

1. Fair enough.
2. Unfortunately for you, I am studying Interactive Entertainment (Major in Games Programming) and that would be as simple as changing a variable even with that old technology because they wouldn't use frame-based animation but time-based. (Keeping consistent movement with framerate!)

Okay, so it slows time [excluding link] however he does have to play a tune (taking a maximum of 7 seconds), in that time Sephiroth could just cast Haste on himself (which doubles speed) (taking a maximum of 4 seconds) and then Stop (Practically freezing Link in place). After which Sephiroth would start wailing on Link until Link was sliced enough to die.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

This brings me to another point, Sephiroth takes time to cast his spells, and would be vulnerable during those times.

Materia is made from condensed mako (lifestream) that taps into the knowledge of the ancients (Sephiroth has this) and the power of the lifestream (Sephiroth has this (NL)) so technically Sephiroth could in fact use his own power and knowledge speeding up the process (like he does at the end of FFVII) making them instant cast.

Even if we don't count that, casting any spell would be faster then Link playing a tune.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

well, here's where it gets interesting. What amounts ot a lump of steel flying through hte atmosphere at speeds in excess of space-craft re-entry would generate so much heat, due to friction, that it'd literally pop every cell it came into contact with, aswell as expand and possibly explode on ontact with Seph's body because the heat would make it very malleable. [That's if he threw the Hylian sheild, which is expendable, because he has the better mirror sheild.].

Essentially, it'd do a very substantial amount of damage, and atleast give Sephiroth a couple seconds of involuntary pause. Factor in the extreme heat, and extreme level of kenetic energy and Sephiroth's entire body would be destroye,d or atleast rendered mulchy, in the time he spends regenning, Link's already working on his next move.

Basically Sephiroth is invulnerable to flame (and its heat), the only damage would be from the impact, which would slice him in half or in which case he could either A. Shapeshift both halves into himself B. Bring them back together C. Both.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

this is the one thing about Final Fantasy games and such that irks me in the pants. Take for instance Sephiroth's supernova ability, which destroys several planets in the solar system everytime he uses it, if we go by that video. The next time he uses it, the planets are there again.

Alot of the cinematic effects in FF games are ridiculous simply because they can be, lol. The only time of seen Bahamut do anythign legit was FF9, when he destroys a few air ships, and attacks Kuja. Going by that, and that Link's sheild, for whatever reason, reflects things you really shouldn't be able to, and I think that pretty much wins the Bahamut debate. Also, if I remember right, isn't bahamut a summon? IE, it brings another creature to help him? In which case Link would get to do the same, and I don't think you want that.

Because it is an Illusion.

Link being durable enough to survive 1000 tonnes landing on him isn't ridiculous but a dragon shooting a beam from space is? Yeah, it is a magic summon (Just like Time or Bolt).

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

Not sure why, but it only seems to apply to Link, and anyone/anything he touches with the sword. IE, it can break a curse on Link without him touching it, and it can reflect forces/magic/elements, and if he stabs someone with it, it negates their power. [See the end of TP, where the sword even overpowers the triforce of power.] Obviously, Link didn't stab Zelda's body while Ganondorf possessed it.

Yes, I can say that's the sword's power, that or just Link's inherently. Eitherway, when the sword was innitially introduced in 1994, it's big selling point was the power to repel, reflect, and destroy evil. In the fight aith Aganihm it reflects hi lightning attacks, it's done this sort of thing all through it's existance. It also cuts through magic barriers, it's a really nice sword, hahaha.

Maybe so, but given that we know the sword can affect Link from atleast a few feet away, it seems unlikely that it'd protect him from being TK'd, and not stop some silly technicality like TKing his boots =P

So basically what you are saying is: It's power only applies to link and in an aura around the sword unless he touches somebody\thing with it, it can -repel- Magical Projectile Attacks, Dark Waves, Dark Barriers and General Evil(So evil people can't hold it etc), also it is very durable and has the ability to throw beams. That would mean it wouldn't protect his items UNLESS the sword was touching them.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

I have a feeling that having 90% of his body obliterated, or otherwise displaced, would require Seph to take more than a split second to reform, especially given that omnislash can one-shot him, and has nothing in the way of destructive feats.

No, his body wouldn't be 90% obliterated, maybe 15% at MOST. That is IF it hits him, he wouldn't be standing still while Link threw his shield. Even if it did, lets say destroy 50% of him he could shapeshift the biggest part, be in fighting shape and then the rest of the cells would make thier way to him.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
And the light arrows in OoT are just normal arrows infused with light energy from Link. Basicly, he's gambit with arrows, nothing stops him from using that same power on the head of an arrow and throwing it.

Duly Noted.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I don;t think Sephiroth can, tbh, he's never done it, or shown that he can. He has control over it, and can make it get kids sick, or make the sky dark, but it never seems to benefit him more than that, it seems to me liek AC is the peak of his power, whatever boost he was going to get from the NL, he already had, imho.

Haha, the childrens bodies and the lifestream fighting against the jenova cells caused the geostigma. That wasn't sky, that was the negative lifestream about to re-shape the planet so Sephiroth could travel on it to another planet ("Like my mother did long ago."😉.

Please stop saying the Negative Lifestream has no feats, it is the Lifestream under the control of Sephiroth, IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME only a different person under control therefore can be used exactly the same way as the Lifestream has been used e.g. Increase his attributes by a heap or harnessing its planetary destructive capabilities (or repairing).

Also, noone has ever seen Sephiroth at his peak. Ever. But yes that is his most powerful form (in every way) he just doesn't try, at all (PIS).

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I can't mimagine Seph ever tanking that sheild though, tbh. It'd be like sitting naked, spread eagle, exactly where you know a meteor was going to land, [assuming that meteor were going to be reduced to the size of a basket ball when it hit the ground.] He'd be all over the place, and most of his cells would be beyond repair, he'd practicly already be at the 'regen from scratch' stage.

As a side note, the Mastersword has the amusing ability to shut down/repel the power of those it strikes. [It's how Ganon gets weakened so that he can be sealed.] If Link stuck the sword in Sephiroth like he did to Ganon in TP, that'd be game and a half, sir.

If he infused himself with the NL he could, that would be eqaul to thousands of peoples durability (or more). He can't have cells beyond repair, either disintergrated\non-existant, trying to rejoin or rejoined.

Edit:
Don't know about you guys but I am enjoying this debate =P.

I talked to Link in a dream, and he told me that he could beat Sephiroth. That being said, he wouldn't fight him because they're pretty good friends. So yeah, this whole thread has been proven pointless by my intense dream.

Argh, damnth though, Killer. I'm supposed to be doing homework. [I have to finish 100 lessons.. a week's worth of class each, in six weeks D:<] I'll reply later.. Lol. I have alot of things I want to say.

I admit, I'm also enjoying this debate, just not so much with Terry, haha.

One thing I HAVE to say now though, is that there's no real way to measure how fast Majora moves, but from 5:00 to 5:30.. watch the whip attacks, and keep in mind each one is breaking the sound barrier, and subject to the same physics that make the tip of a sword move so mcuh faster than the hilt[whiel also being RIDICULOUS in length, multiplying the effect many times over!], and keep in mind that Link canonicly can react to it. O_o; Also, when Majora's incarnation runs around, there is a very intentional illusion effect which hints that Majora was running atleast fast enough to make him hard to track even to Link's eyes that can react to Majora's wrath's insane whips.

I will follow up with more later, happy debating, sir.

EDIT: AND!!! Keep in mind, this is Link as a child, without his piece of the triforce, who canonicly has not slept in ATLEAST three days.

Yeah I had like 2 exams and a few essays, that is why it took my so long to reply >_<.

(I will wait for the full reply to say anything, 'cause you might think of something to add that you forgot now)

Lol, I have alot more to say, but no time to say it, I'm rushing through five credits [1.25 semesters] in six weeks. <_< Including exams! D:

Is this finally done and over with?

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
Is this finally done and over with?

Not if you bump it. 🙄

Just waiting on Screampaste to hurry up with his studies, then we can get on with the debate.