Originally posted by Bicnarok
Racist against who, whites or blacks?More like "silliest " taking the piss out of silly people white or black who walk about with their trousers hanging down, wearing a baseball cap the wrong way round and walking like they have gigantic balls and a pole up the butt.
😆 😆 😆
I've never heard someone put it that way before. I'm going to have to start saying that. 😆 😆
Re: Banks steered blacks to bad loans, NAACP says
Originally posted by KidRock
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29678907/Banks steered blacks to bad loans, NAACP says
Class-action lawsuits target subprime lenders Wells Fargo, HSBC
Most popularupdated 1 hour, 46 minutes ago
The NAACP is accusing Wells Fargo and HSBC of forcing blacks into subprime mortgages while whites with identical qualifications got lower rates.Class-action lawsuits were to be filed against the banks Friday in federal court in Los Angeles, Austin Tighe, co-lead counsel for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, told The Associated Press.
Black homebuyers have been 3 1/2 times more likely to receive a subprime loan than white borrowers, and six times more likely to get a subprime rate when refinancing, Tighe said. Blacks still were disproportionately steered into subprime loans when their credit scores, income and down payment were equal to those of white homebuyers, he said.
Melissa Murray, vice president of corporate communications for Wells Fargo & Co., called the lawsuit "totally unfounded and reckless." The bank is receiving federal bailout funds.
"We have never tolerated, and will never tolerate, discrimination in any way, shape or form in any of our business practices, products, or services," Murray said.
HSBC said it does not comment on litigation. "HSBC stands by its fair lending and consumer protection practices, and we are confident that we are treating our customers fairly and with integrity," said Neil Brazil, vice president for public affairs.
An NAACP member, Amara Weaver of Milwaukee, said she was one of the victims of predatory lending. She bought her first home in 1984, receiving a 6.25 percent fixed-rate mortgage. She says she had a steady job as a human resources director for a social services agency, never missed a mortgage payment and maintained excellent credit.
In 2004, she wanted to buy the house next door for her son to live in. She said the bank promised her a low fixed rate for a $40,000 loan, but at the closing, when reading the fine print, she noticed that the rate was actually 11 percent.
"I was blown away," said Weaver, an NAACP member. "I didn't have any choice (but to sign). ... It made me feel violated."
Similar NAACP lawsuits are pending against a dozen other subprime lenders.
"This is systematic, institutionalized racism," Tighe said. "Once you take out factors relative to income and credit risk, the only difference between the borrowers is the color of their skin."
Tighe estimated that "tens of thousands" of blacks had been forced into bad loans, but said it was difficult to gauge the scope of the problem because banks keep much of their internal data private. The lawsuits could force banks to divulge closely guarded information, such as how banks can determine the race of a loan applicant and how federal bailout funds are being spent.
The NAACP is seeking reforms from the banks such as increased transparency in the loan process, educational outreach and internal training.
****in whitey! Holding the black man down again!
I betcha a steak dinner that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson got turn down by a bank loan and BOOOM...this happen.
So yeah, no money for those two clowns.
aren't 90% to 98% of the all C.E.O.'s C.F.O.'s and C.O.O.'s of all (major) american business; banks (big and small), of all these companies White?
They produce, market, and advertise puedo pro-consumer products and servies that they get for pennies on the dollar off the backs of 3 and 4 year old kids in foreign countries just to sell it back via false advertisement to you, us, fellow countrymen, for tens and hundereds or thousands of dollars.
the so called captains of industry create these policies and deceptive practies and basically lie, just craftily. in this case we had greedy loan officers. and greedy consumers but i hold these "business leaders" more responsible.
mainly they fcuked the u.s. economy up. i say it's like 70% their fault.
whats gonna happen now? our resources here in the u.s. are gonna dry up because the us govt is lending trillions of bucket loads money that doesn't even exist yet. and that better be paid back.
China's our biggest creditor. Do you know what happens when a country can't pay it's debt back to the lender country? The lender country goes to war with the debtor to sieze the equal value back by force whether it be through it through land or anything else.
And i think they're already planning an invasion.
N. korea's already testing nukes and sent satillites up into space and so has Iran, and China's already starting to act defiant. Nuclear India's another one of our debtors. they hate pakistan, our allies, what do you think they'll do? the second biggest county on the planet...
i go off on a huge tangent my apologies, just could stop typing..
but i believed back did steer people to bad loans. not just blacks. i think White people are going through this foreclosure crisis more than black people are.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
aren't 90% to 98% of the all C.E.O.'s C.F.O.'s and C.O.O.'s of all (major) american business; banks (big and small), of all these companies White?They produce, market, and advertise puedo pro-consumer products and servies that they get for pennies on the dollar off the backs of 3 and 4 year old kids in foreign countries just to sell it back via false advertisement to you, us, fellow countrymen, for tens and hundereds or thousands of dollars.
the so called captains of industry create these policies and deceptive practies and basically lie, just craftily. in this case we had greedy loan officers. and greedy consumers but i hold these "business leaders" more responsible.
mainly they fcuked the u.s. economy up. i say it's like 70% their fault.
whats gonna happen now? our resources here in the u.s. are gonna dry up because the us govt is lending trillions of bucket loads money that doesn't even exist yet. and that better be paid back.
China's our biggest creditor. Do you know what happens when a country can't pay it's debt back to the lender country? The lender country goes to war with the debtor to sieze the equal value back by force whether it be through it through land or anything else.
And i think they're already planning an invasion.
N. korea's already testing nukes and sent satillites up into space and so has Iran, and China's already starting to act defiant. Nuclear India's another one of our debtors. they hate pakistan, our allies, what do you think they'll do? the second biggest county on the planet...
i go off on a huge tangent my apologies, just could stop typing..
but i believed back did steer people to bad loans. not just blacks. i think White people are going through this foreclosure crisis more than black people are.
1. When is the last time the U.S. Government could not pay one of it's debtors?
2. No, a country does not go to war to retrieve the due credit. Name one time that has happened.
3. Planning on invasion? That's borderline ludicrous.
4. North Korea is China's best pal now? When did this happen. Iran sent satellites into space or are you saying Iran is testing nukes? Cause neither is true. 😐
5. China is acting defiant now by not making an official statement or recognizing international waters.
6. Dude, India is probably just as big if not bigger of an ally than Pakistan. I'd say that there is far less friction between our two countries than with the US and Pakistan.
7. The second biggest country on the planet is NOT India. 😄 it is Canada. 😄 I knew what you meant. I'm just bustin' yo balls.
8. That was my question form earlier. Representational, or relative to the population numbers, is there REALLY more blacks suffering from bad loans? That would answer the question. If the same per capita is observed, by race, for this bad loan incident, then the NAACP has nothing to stand on.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
aren't 90% to 98% of the all C.E.O.'s C.F.O.'s and C.O.O.'s of all (major) american business; banks (big and small), of all these companies White?They produce, market, and advertise puedo pro-consumer products and servies that they get for pennies on the dollar off the backs
Jesus, Mary and Joseph!
Is there ANYTHING in the life of black people in America that is NOT deliberately caused by whites? Seriously?
It's like black people are affected by things no white, Chinese, Indian, Arab or a Jew is affected by. It's like the rest of us just float about in alternate universe unaffected by corporations, opression and economic difficulties, while you're the only ones that are constantly being taken advantage of?
Its like every person not originating from Sub Saharan Africa is in on opressing balck people.
Originally posted by dadudemon
8. That was my question form earlier. Representational, or relative to the population numbers, is there REALLY more blacks suffering from bad loans? That would answer the question. If the same per capita is observed, by race, for this bad loan incident, then the NAACP has nothing to stand on.
Blacks still were disproportionately steered into subprime loans when their credit scores, income and down payment were equal to those of white homebuyers, he said.
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
That's not what I meant.
I was referring to that as a function of number a applicants, as I mentioned earlier. However, I was the confused as I hurriedly typed that. My bad.
If more African Americans were turned away then the white numbers on a per capita basis, then that number means nothing...it just means more African Americans, per capitia, applied for those same type of loans and were correctly denied. I believe that this is what the defense would be building a defense around so there should be some numbers somewhere.
What about credit?
Since I've worked on the business part of the world for a long time before getting into IT, I can say with surety that African Americans, per capita, have worse credit than say, whites. (And black women, more so than ANY demographic (male, female, asian, hispanic, ANY demographic that you could probably think of), when they don't understand their bill, they will try to say the bill is wrong and that they are being incorrectly charged. If they don't understand the bill, they will argue for hours about it. The "strong black woman"(which can apply to other races WITHOUT having to do with race.....it is just a name I've given it) persona is the root of this problem as the same traits in these women are present in other women from other races such as feminists...The same type of persona present in others causes these same type of argument. (However, the "strong black woman" type is much more present in African American women.)
This is all subjective to my own perceptions in the business world and is only of US customers, as those are the only customers I've worked with.
Now, this isn't as anecdotal as it seems. Speaking with other people from businesses, they echo the same sentiments. They (African Americans) also, as I noticed, have more delinquent accounts than average. This is, in my opinion, cultural. This could be related to this loan problem. Maybe, just maybe, African Americans need to adjust their culture. Some may say, "but, altering that culture is to change the very essence of what it means to be African Amercan and all that entail being part of that subculture." K, and here's my response:
"F*ck that aspects of that culture. F*ck it very much. 😐"
Back a little more on topic:
I would assume that more African Americans were turned away, per capita, than any other group. Does this mean that there was a disproportional, by race, application for sub prime loans? Then it becomes a question of chicken and egg: Did the African Americans seek out the loans based on "happy" stories from friends and family and then the loan officers predatorily seek out the African Americans (as well as other race demographics), or did the predatory loaning start with African Americans and then they spread the news amongst themselves? That would be the REAL question. Cue meme discussion.
But, yeah, thanks Red Nemesis for pointing out my idea not being correctly explained. I take for granted that people have read all my other posts concerning what I've posted. Very arrogant of me, and I don't even realize I'm doing it, sometimes.
Edit- I just reread what you posted. I still don't get it. How do they know they were steered, disproportionally, into subprime loans?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Iran sent satellites into space or are you saying Iran is testing nukes? Cause neither is true. 😐
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7866357.stm
the former is true
Originally posted by inimalist
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7866357.stmthe former is true
I'm happier that you actually read my post than to know that Iran launched a satellite. Strangely enough, I would like to see Iran do better to increase their technologies.
I mean, really.....fear mongering about potentially building an ICBM. When you have enough money, is not very difficult at all to build the ICBM. They payload, on the other hand, could be more difficult.
Isn't this just the "NATO" countries' media producing unnecessary fear mongering for the western readers?
Originally posted by dadudemonEdit- I just reread what you posted. I still don't get it. How do they know they were steered, disproportionally, into subprime loans?
Black Americans would not have known until after the fact. What is "cultural" about Black Americans and their finanaces is that do not manage their money well in general. Historically speaking, there is plenty one could point to explain why this is the case.
It is not a regular occurence to see a middle class black neighborhood that is doing well. My mother has three college degrees and my father has two. Both of them still do stupid things with money. They are not in danger of losing any assets, but they should not be spending at the rate that they do (although I'm sure the "economy" does not care).
Black Americans do not talk with each other about how to handle finances. They make money and spend money. There is little discourse about how to allocate resources. I have seen that white people and Asians, in particular, are very vocal with each other about what to do to make money, and what to do with the money once you make it.
The loans took advantage of people who did not know WTF they were getting into so two factors come into play:
1) It had been well documented that before recently that black Americans were not given mortages in certain neighborhoods because of their race. Various studies had been done to say this was becoming a problem (I would link some but I'm on dial up right now...)
2) You have black people who didn't read much besides signing the dotted line, but this is a problem regardless of race.
* And just out of curiousity, what were you getting @ with the whole strong black woman thing? I got lost.
Originally posted by chithappens
Black Americans would not have known until after the fact. What is "cultural" about Black Americans and their finanaces is that do not manage their money well in general. Historically speaking, there is plenty one could point to explain why this is the case.It is not a regular occurence to see a middle class black neighborhood that is doing well. My mother has three college degrees and my father has two. Both of them still do stupid things with money. They are not in danger of losing any assets, but they should not be spending at the rate that they do (although I'm sure the "economy" does not care).
Black Americans do not talk with each other about how to handle finances. They make money and spend money. There is little discourse about how to allocate resources. I have seen that white people and Asians, in particular, are very vocal with each other about what to do to make money, and what to do with the money once you make it.
The loans took advantage of people who did not know WTF they were getting into so two factors come into play:
1) It had been well documented that before recently that black Americans were not given mortages in certain neighborhoods because of their race. Various studies had been done to say this was becoming a problem (I would link some but I'm on dial up right now...)
2) You have black people who didn't read much besides signing the dotted line, but this is a problem regardless of race.
* And just out of curiousity, what were you getting @ with the whole strong black woman thing? I got lost.
Cool. That does help me better understand things.
And, yeah, my parents took almost their whole lives to finally get to the point of managing their money properly, something that I learned in less than a year as a wee laddy.
The strong black women persona...you know....the kind that...
"I will beat dat ass if you talk back one mo time."
"You best be gettin' yo playa ass out of my face befo I hasta beat it!"
That type. The type that has to make it a point to make sure everyone around them knows that they don't take shit from anyone. The kind that is all too quick to argue about a bill being wrong. Do you know the kind?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Cool. That does help me better understand things.And, yeah, my parents took almost their whole lives to finally get to the point of managing their money properly, something that I learned in less than a year as a wee laddy.
The strong black women persona...you know....the kind that...
"I will beat dat ass if you talk back one mo time."
"You best be gettin' yo playa ass out of my face befo I hasta beat it!"
That type. The type that has to make it a point to make sure everyone around them knows that they don't take shit from anyone. The kind that is all too quick to argue about a bill being wrong. Do you know the kind?
YI've just been thinking about this and my parents' finance.
My mother has supernatural powers when it comes to controlling her finances. Its like she has a 'finance power gene' I failed to inherit.
I have NO idea how she does it. None whatsoever.
My mother has payed off her house, no mortgage, her last car payment will be in May and is in no debt whatsoever.
She has never used her ridiculously large overdraft and will go out of her way not to use it.
On the other hand, scamming my mother out of even 20 pence is mission impossible.
Without creating stereotypes (although they all come from somewhere, don't they?), I believe black people have ability to manage their money as good as anyone.
And again, this type of thing is very individual. Some balck people may not be able to manage their finance, while others do.
And prioritising plays large part in all of this. If you're struggling with utility bills, loans and mortgage, you cannot afford designer clothes, pay-per-view wrestling or cable or whatever, and you may not be able to afford mobile phone.
It's just how it is.
People can't be buying luxurious things than complaining how economy is working against them.
Yeah, I do know that kind and hate it for anyone who has had to deal with them. I'm going to be a teacher and I've seen it more than once when I'm tutoring at different levels. Some kid will be acting an ass and then all the f-bombs drop along with some bullshit about how the kid is acting up because the teacher is not doing their job.
For those who have no clue what I mean, it's the black, female version of a baseball manager who walks out to argue a call like a rambling fool. The louder the volume, the more right they are.
But yeah on the other topic, I don't see this changing for a while. While loans should not be given to those who can't afford it (which is what regulation was supposed to protect the economy from), it is up to the potential mortage holder to actually be sure that they can own up to their end of the bargin at their current status.
Obviously, there is something really ****ed up going on though if this many people defaulted on loans. Something was worded really weird though cause I find it hard to believe that so many people just bought without reading at all. I hope some stats come out soon.
It is also worth mentioning that the NAACP has never done anything to help civil rights. The NAACP is just around to make a big deal of everything. NAACP was around to talk about how the federal government should abolish the word ******, to say black NBA players get more whistles than white players, etc. **** The NAACP. They always do this shit and never even have legitimate reasons. Work on how to help black Americans who are in financial trouble and stop trying to divide people even more. Pisses me off to no end.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
YI've just been thinking about this and my parents' finance.My mother has supernatural powers when it comes to controlling her finances. Its like she has a 'finance power gene' I failed to inherit.
I have NO idea how she does it. None whatsoever.
My mother has payed off her house, no mortgage, her last car payment will be in May and is in no debt whatsoever.
She has never used her ridiculously large overdraft and will go out of her way not to use it.On the other hand, scamming my mother out of even 20 pence is mission impossible.
Without creating stereotypes (although they all come from somewhere, don't they?), I believe black people have ability to manage their money as good as anyone.
And again, this type of thing is very individual. Some balck people may not be able to manage their finance, while others do.
And prioritising plays large part in all of this. If you're struggling with utility bills, loans and mortgage, you cannot afford designer close, pay-per-view wrestling or cable or whatever, and you may not be able to afford mobile phone.It's just how it is.
People can't be buying luxurious things than complaining how economy is working against them.
I agree but I don't think everyone was buying luxurious houses.
Again, black Americans generally do not spend money well. Hip hop is a actualy a good way to explain how this works. For example, if you get money, you just spend it like crazy, hardly no saving. A lot of black athlethes are the same. All these people have are other people with next to shit who want to leech off of them, not someone around trying to help them.
Hell, even I'm a "traitor" for going to college. Me getting an education will never be celebrated by most that I grew up with. That's the culture.
Just one point, I wasn't refering to black people exclusivelly when I said buying luxurous things - I wasn't very clear in my message.
Anyway, I somewhat fail to understand the culture you talk about (I'm not from around here, so you'll have to fill me in on few things). If there is an oppertunity, why not take it?
I applaude your decision to go to collage! More people, if they have oppertunity and want it, should go.
It just openes a lot of doors for careers one didn't even think would be doing.
P.S I am hoping to become a teacher as well - even though my degree and MA had nothing to do with that.
I read this again, and a couple things stuck out as being not quite right.
Originally posted by dadudemonIf more African Americans were turned away then the white numbers on a per capita basis, then that number means nothing...it just means more African Americans, per capitia, applied for those same type of loans and were correctly denied. I believe that this is what the defense would be building a defense around so there should be some numbers somewhere.
When adjusted for disparities in economic trends (like the huge over representation of blacks in the lower economic classes), the statistics show that black borrowers were more likely to be given a sub-prime loan than white people in the same situation. This indicates (to the NAACP) that banks deliberately gave black people bad loans.
Originally posted by dadudemon
What about credit?Since I've worked on the business part of the world for a long time before getting into IT, I can say with surety that African Americans, per capita, have worse credit than say, whites. (And black women, more so than ANY demographic (male, female, asian, hispanic, ANY demographic that you could probably think of), when they don't understand their bill, they will try to say the bill is wrong and that they are being incorrectly charged. If they don't understand the bill, they will argue for hours about it. The "strong black woman"(which can apply to other races WITHOUT having to do with race.....it is just a name I've given it) persona is the root of this problem as the same traits in these women are present in other women from other races such as feminists...The same type of persona present in others causes these same type of argument. (However, the "strong black woman" type is much more present in African American women.)
This is all subjective to my own perceptions in the business world and is only of US customers, as those are the only customers I've worked with.
So:
Poverty leads to poor credit scores
Blacks tend to have a disproportionate number of poor people
Blacks therefore would tend to have a disproportionate number of poor credit ratings
Am I wrong?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Now, this isn't as anecdotal as it seems. Speaking with other people from businesses, they echo the same sentiments. They (African Americans) also, as I noticed, have more delinquent accounts than average. This is, in my opinion, cultural. This could be related to this loan problem. Maybe, just maybe, African Americans need to adjust their culture. Some may say, "but, altering that culture is to change the very essence of what it means to be African Amercan and all that entail being part of that subculture." K, and here's my response:"F*ck that aspects of that culture. F*ck it very much. 😐"
Adults who don't finish high school in the U.S. earn 65 percent of what people who have high school degrees make, according to a new report...
Black people are more likely to drop out and therefore make less money.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html
A greater percentage of the black population lies below 5,000$/year than any other (tracked) ethnicity as of 2006. Also, Blacks had the lowest median income of any tracked group.
We know that blacks have less money. This will only mean anything if I can link poverty to lack of education:Ms Gilbert focused her attention on the “stark” relationship between poverty and educational achievement.
This is talking about poor students: they cannot be poor because they slacked in school or were simply incompetent. The poverty is causing the shortcomings in performance.
There. To blame the large numbers of defaulted loans and poor credit scores within the black community on the culture of a 'strong (black) woman' is patently absurd.
Of course, if you wanted to damn the intellectually oppressive culture of the lowest economic classes, rather than the strong individualistic characteristics of these cultures I'd probably join in. If you continue along this route however I can and will shout "Cultural Imperialism" at the top of my lungs. Let's not make a scene, ok?
Originally posted by dadudemon
Back a little more on topic:I would assume that more African Americans were turned away, per capita, than any other group. Does this mean that there was a disproportional, by race, application for sub prime loans? Then it becomes a question of chicken and egg: Did the African Americans seek out the loans based on "happy" stories from friends and family and then the loan officers predatorily seek out the African Americans (as well as other race demographics), or did the predatory loaning start with African Americans and then they spread the news amongst themselves? That would be the REAL question. Cue meme discussion.
Wikipedia claims 221.3 million White people. The census Bureau claims 8.2 percent poverty among that group. This translates to 18,146,600 poor white people. Those same sites call for 40.9 million black people and 24.5 percent, respectively. This translates to 10,020,500 poor black people. 18,146,600 >>>>> 10,020,500. By a lot. I doubt that more black people getting bad loans caused the discrepancy in distribution.
Originally posted by dadudemon
But, yeah, thanks Red Nemesis for pointing out my idea not being correctly explained. I take for granted that people have read all my other posts concerning what I've posted. Very arrogant of me, and I don't even realize I'm doing it, sometimes.
But no problem. Srsly.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Edit- I just reread what you posted. I still don't get it. How do they know they were steered, disproportionally, into subprime loans?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Just one point, I wasn't refering to black people exclusivelly when I said buying luxurous things - I wasn't very clear in my message.Anyway, I somewhat fail to understand the culture you talk about (I'm not from around here, so you'll have to fill me in on few things). If there is an oppertunity, why not take it?
I applaude your decision to go to collage! More people, if they have oppertunity and want it, should go.
It just openes a lot of doors for careers one didn't even think would be doing.P.S I am hoping to become a teacher as well - even though my degree and MA had nothing to do with that.
I didn't think you meant black folks only. No big 😛.
It's really easy to put to say one should just take the oppurtunity that's right there. I agree, but I sympathethic to those who don't just jump @ it because the only reason that one would not do it is because they don't have that support system. My early adolsence was in West Side Chicago when the black gang wars were first being discussed in the U.S. as a serious problem. I saw Rodney King sort of shit every other day and I fear police to this day. But I had parents and grandparents who nurtured me. I was lucky.
There is a huge divide in black America between the "educated" and the uneducated (otherwise referred to as the niggas). Check out my signature, click under my random thoughts blog and check the entry titled "Break Bread, then hand them a book" cause it can explain stuff in way more detail (I would just copy and paste some stuff but I can't read it from my mom's PC for some reason 😕 ).
I'm really glad I'm in college. I'm learning Japanese also and looks like I might be an oppurtunity to spend a semester there for free! By the way, what sort of teaching are you interested in?